1875 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

How do you make decisions on behalf of your character if the set of rules that governs those decisions changes from moment to moment?

 

Maybe you should make a separate thread concerning this 

[mopotter]

Defile Andraste's ashes in front of Leliana(and Wynne) then report back. Or spare Loghain and check Alistair's reaction. Also a LOT of people whined when Alistair had a tantrum while sparing Loghain's life. Case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Except, if your Alistair's best friend, male or female, have him marry the Queen, with the self-confidence you give him by telling him his sister is a twit, you can recruit Loghain, and after it's over, Alistair will admit you were right.  They only gave him the tantrum if he's your LI.  Which actually irritates me to no end.    Bah. humbug.   

[Ryzaki]

SERIOUSLY?

 

He actually gets the hell over it if he's not romanced?
 

Oh FFS.

[LPPrince]

He still leaves the party.

[Ryzaki]

I'm fine with that.

 

But his snippy attitude after the coronation was tiring. Dude the guy is DEAD please get over it.

[Ispan]

Anders actively flirting with male or female Hawke makes perfect sense to me.  He's just had to put down his past lover and someone is comforting him, telling him "I'm always ready to listen" and "You did the right thing."   People misinterpret concern, sympathy and simple politeness as a sign of something more all the time, even when they're not emotionally compromised.  Everyone reacts to grief differently and some act out through sex.  Regarding Justice, the flirting happens in Act 1 when Justice seems to have less control of him and, if romanced, he says "Justice does not approve of my obsession with you."  On top of all this, Anders was flirtatious in Awakening and still retains some of his own personality at this point.

 

Also, why is gaining 10 rivalry points such an issue?  Why complain about the character's sexuality ruining your sense of realism, and then get upset when they respond to your rejection in a realistic way?  Some friendships (same sex and m/f) end completely in RL when someone tries to take it to the next level and faces rejection.

 

I'm glad they make him actively flirt.  Some people do that, so deal with it.  If you actually look at the character, his past, and the circumstances laid out before you it fits perfectly.

[Iakus]

I'm fine with that.

 

But his snippy attitude after the coronation was tiring. Dude the guy is DEAD please get over it.

Well, things still seemed pretty tense.  Sort of a "You were right, but Maker, I'm still p*ssed"

[Iakus]

Anders actively flirting with male or female Hawke makes perfect sense to me.  He's just had to put down his past lover and someone is comforting him, telling him "I'm always ready to listen" and "You did the right thing."   People misinterpret concern, sympathy and simple politeness as a sign of something more all the time, even when they're not emotionally compromised.  Everyone reacts to grief differently and some act out through sex.  Regarding Justice, the flirting happens in Act 1 when Justice seems to have less control of him and, if romanced, he says "Justice does not approve of my obsession with you."  On top of all this, Anders was flirtatious in Awakening and still retains some of his own personality at this point.

 

Wait, it makes perfect sense that he's willing to put the moves on someone who literally just helped him put down his ex-lover?

 

 

Also, why is gaining 10 rivalry points such an issue?  Why complain about the character's sexuality ruining your sense of realism, and then get upset when they respond to your rejection in a realistic way?  Some friendships (same sex and m/f) end completely in RL when someone tries to take it to the next level and faces rejection.

 

Because as I've noted before, you get as much for handing Ketojen over to be killed.

 

Anders has some pretty frakked up priorities

[Ryzaki]

Well, things still seemed pretty tense.  Sort of a "You were right, but Maker, I'm still p*ssed"

 

Aww

 

As for frakked up priorities. You lose more approval for laughing at Alistair's performance in bed than for enslaving/using innocents in a blood ritual. The approval unbalance has been there since DAO. DA2 isn't a special snowflake.

[Ispan]

Wait, it makes perfect sense that he's willing to put the moves on someone who literally just helped him put down his ex-lover?

 

There's plenty of research done on grief and sexuality and if you spend a few minutes on google you'll find hundreds of anecdotes about feeling inappropriate sexual urges immediately after the death of a loved one.  And yes, you helped him put down his ex-lover.  You were present and supportive during a terrible time in his life.  Haven't you ever seen instances of a person losing their spouse and immediately marrying their spouse's best friend who was there for them all along?  It's not necessarily right, but it's undeniably real.

[Eveangaline]

I'm fine with that.

 

But his snippy attitude after the coronation was tiring. Dude the guy is DEAD please get over it.

 

Yeah but dead and honored as a hero of the land rather than a traitor that lead to the death of Alistairs beloved mentor and not so beloved but still honorable brother.

[Ryzaki]

man's still dead though. Also you think Alistair would've put two and two together and realized that could've been either him or the Warden and that the Warden saved both their lives by doing this.

[Banxey]

man's still dead though. Also you think Alistair would've put two and two together and realized that could've been either him or the Warden and that the Warden saved both their lives by doing this.

 

He also ignores the possibility that Duncan may have recruited Loghain as well. I suppose Alistair must not know how Duncan became a Warden.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Aww

 

As for frakked up priorities. You lose more approval for laughing at Alistair's performance in bed than for enslaving/using innocents in a blood ritual. The approval unbalance has been there since DAO. DA2 isn't a special snowflake.

Don't underestimate a man's ego

[Hazegurl]

That's essentially what playersexuality is: you pick a gender for your PC, and the LIs become whatever fits to accommodate your romance with them for that particular playthrough, and, to varying degress, that's the impression that DA2's romance mechanic gave me and others.  Feel free to disagree, though.

The player still has not changed the sexuality of the character. You can only change something that has already been set as something else from that start. If you can prove that the character's sexuality has already been decided BEFORE the character comes into contact with the player, then yeah. That would be "playersexuality" and yes it would be the player changing the sexuality of the character.

 

Honestly, the only character I would say comes close is Anders based on DA:A. But even then we knew hardly anything about his personal life, let alone sex life to claim what his sexuality is.

So yeah I'll have to disagree.

[Ryzaki]

Don't underestimate a man's ego

 

Oh come on. He had to know virgins are pretty...meh lays a lot of the time.

[Hazegurl]

man's still dead though. Also you think Alistair would've put two and two together and realized that could've been either him or the Warden and that the Warden saved both their lives by doing this.

Alistair is a moron. I love romancing him as my FWarden but he annoys me. He refuses to lead the group but will put you through he ringer if you don't do everything he would want you to do. I wanted the option to punch him out during my human male noble playthrough. He hated my guts and still threw a tantrum over Loghain yet expected me to spare his life at the Landsmeet. I did only to see him drunk in DA2, otherwise I would have had his head rolling for expecting to be kept alive to abandon the wardens before the fight with a freaking archdemon.

[Thrillian]

Good lord, one person comes in and upsets the balance, and all hell breaks loose!

[razmatazz]

@Hazegurl  Since when did decide==change?  When something isn't decided on, it's usually because it hasn't been set; I'm fairly certain I used the word correctly .

 

Edit1:  Meh, I don't think you necessarily deserve to be subject to that last comment.  Apologies.

Edit2:  And now I really don't have any hope for this thread to remain open for much longer...

[Ryzaki]

Alistair is a moron. I love romancing him as my FWarden but he annoys me. He refuses to lead the group but will put you through he ringer if you don't do everything he would want you to do. I wanted the option to punch him out during my human male noble playthrough. He hated my guts and still threw a tantrum over Loghain yet expected me to spare his life at the Landsmeet. I did only to see him drunk in DA2, otherwise I would have had his head rolling for expecting to be kept alive to abandon the wardens before the fight with a freaking archdemon.

 

He is pretty stupid but I COMPLETELY understand his rage about Loghain. My HN would probably be **** you and the horse you rode in on if he/she was forced to work with Howe. I really can't get over how ridiculous it is to recruit Loghain as soon as Alistair tells you he's leaving if you do. Assuming the best case scenario you know have the same exact number of wardens you started witih. Assuming the worse you have less. Even my douchecanoe Wardens put up with Alistair's fit because Loghain simply wasn't worth losing a proven asset.

 

I can somewhat justify it with him hardened and married to Anora because at least then you still have 3 wardens even if one's still at the palace. But otherwise...so much no.

 

Loghain has proven himself a paranoid fool and you spent the whole game cleaning up his messes. The one pragmatic thing he does (having the army retreat) is completely nullified by his idiocy in attempting to take the throne and successfully dividing the country against itself). And now you're supposed to get rid of a useful asset (no matter how aggravating my PC finds Alistair or how much moralizing and whining Alistair does he is always by my PC's side. Complaining to be sure but he's the one person my PC doesn't fear any alternative motives with). You know exactly where you stand with his ass.

 

Every single companion in DAO can/does throw a tantrum at some point. Every Single One.

 

Well that's not dog. Dog is awesome.

 

uggh lost some of my post.

 

Either way Alistair's betrayal is not at all surprising. You crossed his line in his eyes you betrayed him. You have Loghain after all what do you need him for? I can see him feeling that way thus his walking away while not mature is understandable. I mean it's pretty blatant from the first few conversations you have with him he's not a mature pragmatic person. He talks about how the Wardens do questionable actions but you can see he clearly holds the idealized version of them as something to aspire too.

[Steelcan]

so how about those playersexual romances?

 

 

Not my cup of tea to be honest

[Hazegurl]

He is pretty stupid but I COMPLETELY understand his rage about Loghain. My HN would probably be **** you and the horse you rode in on if he/she was forced to work with Howe. I really can't get over how ridiculous it is to recruit Loghain as soon as Alistair tells you he's leaving if you do. Assuming the best case scenario you know have the same exact number of wardens you started witih. Assuming the worse you have less. Even my douchecanoe Wardens put up with Alistair's fit because Loghain simply wasn't worth losing a proven asset.

 

I can somewhat justify it with him hardened and married to Anora because at least then you still have 3 wardens even if one's still at the palace. But otherwise...so much no.

 

Loghain has proven himself a paranoid fool and you spent the whole game cleaning up his messes. The one pragmatic thing he does (having the army retreat) is completely nullified by his idiocy in attempting to take the throne and successfully dividing the country against itself). And now you're supposed to get rid of a useful asset (no matter how aggravating my PC finds Alistair or how much moralizing and whining Alistair does he is always by my PC's side. Complaining to be sure but he's the one person my PC doesn't fear any alternative motives with). You know exactly where you stand with his ass.

 

Every single companion in DAO can/does throw a tantrum at some point. Every Single One.

 

Well that's not dog. Dog is awesome.

 

uggh lost some of my post.

 

Either way Alistair's betrayal is not at all surprising. You crossed his line in his eyes you betrayed him. You have Loghain after all what do you need him for? I can see him feeling that way thus his walking away while not mature is understandable. I mean it's pretty blatant from the first few conversations you have with him he's not a mature pragmatic person. He talks about how the Wardens do questionable actions but you can see he clearly holds the idealized version of them as something to aspire too.

 It sucks that you recruit Loghain and end up with the same number of Wardens. My HMN recruited him because he was engaged to Anora and if Morrigan's DR didn't work then he's got fodder in Loghain to toss at the archdemon. I would say that is reason enough to recruit him. My HN certainly would throw a fit about Howe, but I would kill him AFTER the archdemon is dead. Finding out a sacrifice has to be made in killing the archdemon would have been icing on the cake enough to make me turn down Morrigan.  I agree that Alistair is a proven asset, but he's not much of one when he pretty much splits on his duty as a Grey Warden leaving all of Fereldan to perish. According to DA:A that is punishable by death anyway. I would even say that he's not much of a King to put on the throne even if hardened and with Anora. Once you're willing to leave your people to die then you don't deserve to be their ruler.  Whether he ends up at the palace or high tailing it out of Ferelden he is still worthless and should feel like less than a man for deserting his people like that. My HMN would never bow to someone like that, he'd sooner toss him to the archdemon. Loghain may have been crazy and paranoid but he stepped up like a champ while Alistair faltered so I have a bit of respect for him for that.

 

I do agree that dog is awesome.

[Ryzaki]

 It sucks that you recruit Loghain and end up with the same number of Wardens. My HMN recruited him because he was engaged to Anora and if Morrigan's DR didn't work then he's got fodder in Loghain to toss at the archdemon. I would say that is reason enough to recruit him. My HN certainly would throw a fit about Howe, but I would kill him AFTER the archdemon is dead. Finding out a sacrifice has to be made in killing the archdemon would have been icing on the cake enough to make me turn down Morrigan.  I agree that Alistair is a proven asset, but he's not much of one when he pretty much splits on his duty as a Grey Warden leaving all of Fereldan to perish. According to DA:A that is punishable by death anyway. I would even say that he's not much of a King to put on the throne even if hardened and with Anora. Once you're willing to leave your people to die then you don't deserve to be their ruler.  Whether he ends up at the palace or high tailing it out of Ferelden he is still worthless and should feel like less than a man for deserting his people like that. My HMN would never bow to someone like that, he'd sooner toss him to the archdemon. Loghain may have been crazy and paranoid but he stepped up like a champ while Alistair faltered so I have a bit of respect for him for that.

 

I do agree that dog is awesome.

 

Makes sense to me. Alistair bounces because he's been replaced. The warden has no one to blame but him/herself he straight up tells you he's leaving if you do that.

 

Oh my warden probably would've waited with Howe (well the non hothead one. The hothead would've sent his head a flying before Riordan even finished his sentence.) "I'm sorry I didn't hear you over the sound of his head hitting the ground. Say that again?" She would not have felt comfortable fighting beside someone who she knew to be a snake, coward and fully willing to murder innocents to achieve his own shallow ends. Loghain may have had better reasons for the **** he pulled but I could see why Alistair wouldn't want to be fighting back to back with someone like that.

 

He spits on his duty after you spit on his face and pretty much tell him you'd take Loghain over him. Again he told you it was Loghain or him. The Warden picked Loghain clearly that's telling Alistair the warden doesn't value him over Loghain so he decides to leave. Alistair wants to be valued. And the warden by picking Loghain pretty much shows him that he/she doesn't value him much at all.  Eh Anders got off scot free. I always thought the wardens were pretty much "what ever" because the taint would eventually force the warden to seek out the darkspawn. They can't help it.

 

As for being willing to leave his people to die. Being willing to let people die is part of being a ruler (for a decent cause mind). Loghain did the same. Why is Alistair getting crap for that when Loghain and Anora do the same thing? Also Alistair was never the steam behind the army. The warden was. He could easily see himself as insignificant thus his leaving doesn't matter in the least. You've already replaced him in his mind with Loghain.

 

As for feeling he's worthless well that's your opinion. I feel he made a regrettable decision after being hurt by someone he (no matter how negative his approval was with you) trusted. As for Loghain stepping up like a champ. He didn't step up. He had no other option if he wanted to live. If he wanted to step up he would've stopped the civil war bs a long time ago. He doesn't. He faces his death with dignity yes and when forced to become a warden he goes ahead and accepts it. His other alternative is his head going flying. That's not some noble deed.

 

But yes Dog is the best companion. No whining, no bitching 100% loyalty all the time.

[Steelcan]

I find that player-sexuality for characters makes the PC too important. 

 

When I play a game like DA or ME I'm not playing it to go on a power fantasy and have have the whole world bow to my every whim, that's what TES and shooters are for.  I play these games to experience a world and the characters in them.  In this spirit I think that characters should be immutable in most circumstances, they should have their own personal backstories and beliefs that contribute to their development.

 

Changing the character's sexuality to suit the whims of the PC is a gross breach of this in my eyes.  I get that people want to be able to experience romances with their favorite characters and with their favored PC set-up, but I don't think it is worth sacrificing the immersion I can get from meeting characters with different tastes and preferences. 

 

I'll admit, I was pleasantly surprised when Traynor turned down my Shepard, I didn't demand that she be made romanceable.  I found her refusal refreshing actually.  (Not sure if there is a similar scene for FemShep and Cortez)

[Ryzaki]

*stares*

 

Are you seriously suggesting Mass Effect wasn't a power fantasy in regards to the romances? Pretty much every young female Shepard knows wants to throw her panties at him. How is that NOT a power fantasy? The one sole exception in ME3 is Samantha. Full stop. Even Samara goes she'd throw you down and ride you like a damn rodeo if she was younger.

 

That's not a player sexuality issue that's a way the Lis are written issue.