1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

After reading a few posts in the thread, I just want to add something to what I said in my first post. People need to stop fussing over what characters are gay, lesbian , bi or straight and focus on whether or not they actually have a romance option fitting their own sexual orientation. For example, what difference does it make for you if Leliana is bi. I romanced her in one of my playthroughs and I didn't even think about her being bi, because at that point it didn't matter. If you want a hetero relationship with her or a gay you can have it. I also want to clarify that playersexuality is not the same as bisexuality, I see some of you using the terms interchangeably. It is not a beacon for equality either, it's more a lazy solution which sacrifices diversity and uniqueness between companions.

 

If Bioware brings characters with predefined traits, as they should, there will always be certain characters who you may like but are not of the sexual orientation you prefer, and that's something you have to live with. If I don't see straight or bi female characters that I like, then that is something I will live with, not complain that the characters I did like turned out to be lesbians. I did the same thing when it came to Samantha, and I will do the same if there's a companion that I like in DA:I. 

 

I don't agree that equality of available romances should be the focus when creating a character. Just because there are 2 gay companions in the game,  doesn't mean there should be 2 bi and 2 straight characters, that's just selfishness.

 

I really think Bioware should go back to creating companions with fully defined and unique traits. While providing at least one romance option to people with any preference is certainly something they should keep in mind, they should stand behind their design decision of every character, rather than just switching all characters to player defined sexuality(playersexuality), just because they met with a few dissatisfied fans.

 

Bold part  Few? Really? You must be new around here? 

[KaiserShep]

I'm sympathetic to TurretSyndrome's point.  I remember chuckling at one of the banters between Morrigan and Leliana in which Leliana praises Morrigan's appearance and Morrigan takes offense to Leliana checking out her breasts.  We really do miss out on that sort of thing with the 'player-sexual' implimentation.

 

That sort of thing can still happen regardless, especially when accounting for companions that may not even be love interests at all, like when you have both Aveline and Isabela in the group for a while. Of course, Isabela does not make remarks about Aveline in the same way Leliana does toward Morrigan, but just the same that kind of dynamic can still exist.

[TurretSyndrome]

Bold part  Few? Really? You must be new around here? 

 

 

Maybe this is news to you but people who usually have a problem with romance options prefer homosexual romances, because those are at most times, what a game may lack. Add that to the number of people who actually play the game for the romances themselves, and you have, yes, only a few but vocal fans who are dissatisfied with the characters who they want to/can romance.

[Felya87]

I must say I don't like much the player sexual or "all bisexual" thing. not because "irreal" (it is, but in a world where people turn into dragons, who cares?) but simply because I find cute having some limitation based on the character I create. (I'm even ok with some limit imposed by races or being/non being a mage)

because it simply made me curious about create a totally different character.

For example, I created a male Warden and a male Shepard only to romance Morrigan and Jack. I played the game from another point of view, and I found it funny.

 

I didn't have the same motivation in doing a male Hawke. Why create a different character, if my Lady Hawke can do the exactly same things (and people) as male Hawke?

 

still, I'm not against playersexual, but I hope in at least very different content from a male/female inquisitor. and of course not a repeat of ME3 "we forgot some female are straight"

[The Elder King]

After reading a few posts in the thread, I just want to add something to what I said in my first post. People need to stop fussing over what characters are gay, lesbian , bi or straight and focus on whether or not they actually have a romance option fitting their own sexual orientation. For example, what difference does it make for you if Leliana is bi. I romanced her in one of my playthroughs and I didn't even think about her being bi, because at that point it didn't matter. If you want a hetero relationship with her or a gay you can have it. I also want to clarify that playersexuality is not the same as bisexuality, I see some of you using the terms interchangeably. It is not a beacon for equality either, it's more a lazy solution which sacrifices diversity and uniqueness between companions.
 
If Bioware brings characters with predefined traits, as they should, there will always be certain characters who you may like but are not of the sexual orientation you prefer, and that's something you have to live with. If I don't see straight or bi female characters that I like, then that is something I will live with, not complain that the characters I did like turned out to be lesbians. I did the same thing when it came to Samantha, and I will do the same if there's a companion that I like in DA:I. 
 
I don't agree that equality of available romances should be the focus when creating a character. Just because there are 2 gay companions in the game,  doesn't mean there should be 2 bi and 2 straight characters, that's just selfishness.
 
I really think Bioware should go back to creating companions with fully defined and unique traits. While providing at least one romance option to people with any preference is certainly something they should keep in mind, they should stand behind their design decision of every character, rather than just switching all characters to player defined sexuality(playersexuality), just because they met with a few dissatisfied fans.

I'm quite confused on your point. Nobody cared about Leliana being bisexual. What they cared is that it was the only LI for lesbians. Would you be fine if the four LI are bisexual instead of playersexual?

[jncicesp]

Merrill and Fenris playersexual thing kinda really Did work with their backgrounds and personalities.

the only person Merrill could have possible liked was Mahariel and Fenris actually said why hes never been with anyone.

 

it doesn't seem like you're influencing their sexuality or whatever, they can end up liking Hawke cause they're Hawke.

I think(think, not sure) Morrigan and Alistair are the same way, or are supposed to be... even Anders is kinda like that...so at least Merrill and Fenris might be more demisexual than bi.

 

 

I didn't have the same motivation in doing a male Hawke. Why create a different character, if my Lady Hawke can do the exactly same things (and people) as male Hawke?

 

thats neat, I felt the opposite. DA2 is the only one I can playthough and beat as a male. I dont have anything to say about it but its neat.

[Xilizhra]

I'm sympathetic to TurretSyndrome's point.  I remember chuckling at one of the banters between Morrigan and Leliana in which Leliana praises Morrigan's appearance and Morrigan takes offense to Leliana checking out her breasts.  We really do miss out on that sort of thing with the 'player-sexual' implimentation.

Not really. I could see it happening even if Morrigan could be romanced by female Wardens.

 

After reading a few posts in the thread, I just want to add something to what I said in my first post. People need to stop fussing over what characters are gay, lesbian , bi or straight and focus on whether or not they actually have a romance option fitting their own sexual orientation. For example, what difference does it make for you if Leliana is bi. I romanced her in one of my playthroughs and I didn't even think about her being bi, because at that point it didn't matter. If you want a hetero relationship with her or a gay you can have it. I also want to clarify that playersexuality is not the same as bisexuality, I see some of you using the terms interchangeably. It is not a beacon for equality either, it's more a lazy solution which sacrifices diversity and uniqueness between companions.

 

If Bioware brings characters with predefined traits, as they should, there will always be certain characters who you may like but are not of the sexual orientation you prefer, and that's something you have to live with. If I don't see straight or bi female characters that I like, then that is something I will live with, not complain that the characters I did like turned out to be lesbians. I did the same thing when it came to Samantha, and I will do the same if there's a companion that I like in DA:I. 

 

I don't agree that equality of available romances should be the focus when creating a character. Just because there are 2 gay companions in the game,  doesn't mean there should be 2 bi and 2 straight characters, that's just selfishness.

 

I really think Bioware should go back to creating companions with fully defined and unique traits. While providing at least one romance option to people with any preference is certainly something they should keep in mind, they should stand behind their design decision of every character, rather than just switching all characters to player defined sexuality(playersexuality), just because they met with a few dissatisfied fans.

So have everyone be bisexual. Bam, done.

[TurretSyndrome]

I'm quite confused on your point. Nobody cared about Leliana being bisexual. What they cared is that it was the only LI for lesbians. Would you be fine if the four LI are bisexual instead of playersexual?

Read the posts on this thread. People are constantly talking about how the game should have a certain number of gay, bi or lesbian characters. I was just saying that they should be more concerned with whether or not they have a LI of their preference or not. I'm ok with your four bi example, it just means that all four LI are defined as bi.

 

@Xilizhra To me, it's really about what fits a character. I don't want characters to be made all bi or just playersexual to "solve" this problem, rather, I want to see well written characters whose sexual orientation is something which fits them. I hope you get the subtlety of that difference.

[Billy-the-Squid]

I'd rather beat one off to porn and then skip the romances entirely. At least I'm honest about it, you guys are with the same on your fan fictions and waifus.

[Xilizhra]

Read the posts on this thread. People are constantly talking about how the game should have a certain number of gay, bi or lesbian characters. I was just saying that they should be more concerned with whether or not they have a LI of their preference or not. I'm ok with your four bi example, it just means that all four LI are defined as bi.

 

@Xilizhra To me, it's really about what fits a character. I don't want characters to be made all bi or just playersexual to "solve" this problem, rather, I want to see well written characters whose sexual orientation is something which fits them. I hope you get the subtlety of that difference.

What "fits" a character is what they're written as, and sexual orientation determines nothing about personality except how one responds to sex from specific genders. Isabela is no more "fitting" as bisexual than Merrill just because she's promiscuous.

[The Elder King]

Read the posts on this thread. People are constantly talking about how the game should have a certain number of gay, bi or lesbian characters. I was just saying that they should be more concerned with whether or not they have a LI of their preference or not. I'm ok with your four bi example, it just means that all four LI are defined as bi.
 .

I'm one of the people who talked about the 2/2/2 approach, but not becuase I want a exclusive homosexual romance, but because it'd solve the problem that shown people had with the DA2 approach. I'm prefectly fine with the 4 LI bisexual approach (which I prefer to the playersexual one). But some of the people who complained about DA2's approach would dislike having 4 bisexual LI too, even if they're not playersexual.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I'd rather beat one off to porn and then skip the romances entirely. At least I'm honest about it, you guys are with the same on your fan fictions and waifus.

 

You're assuming we don't also watch (or read) porn. I like porn just fine, but BioWare romances hardly fill the same niche. Romances are about having more roleplaying opportunities for my character, not sex scenes. And meanwhile, porn does not provide me with roleplaying opportunities in between killing dragons. (Unless it was interactive roleplaying pornography. Which I guess must exist somewhere, but I don't know if any of it is Dragon Age themed ...)

[WildOrchid]

The biggest problem I see with playersexual is the fact that it can hurt the perception of bisexuality as a valid identity. I think the writers handled it well with Isabela, crafting a character who was legitimately open to having sex with people of any gender. Additionally, given how she talks about elves specifically, you might say she expresses pansexuality, even if she never labels herself as such. However, as she is the only character whose sexuality is actually a part of her in game character and she is bi, pan, whichever, she does fall victim to the bisexual who sleeps with everyone stereotype.

 

Anders however, bothers me more. Why does Anders not mention having a relationship with Karl if he romances a femHawke? Would it really be so 'icky' for a woman to date a man who was bi? If that isn't the reasoning, then why was it taken out? This is the part of the system that bothers me I think, that his bisexuality gets hidden during the pursuit of a heterosexual relationship.

 

Anders doesn't express an interest in men in Awakening, thats true, but using that as a basis for his sexuality for his entire life is really unfair, and shows that there is a bias in how society percieves sexuality. When Awakening came out, of all companions, how many of them are LGB? None? Really? You sure? Or is it that without being explicitly told who was what, it was assumed they were straight, even if they never gave any indication one way or the other? I'm sure many people aren't looking at it like this, but to lots of people, everyone in the party is straight until very publicly, very throughly outted.

 

Player sexual does make the most sense. This is ultimately a fantasy video game that doesn't need to have characters who worry about the same sexual taboos etc that our culture has. For those of us who that effects on a daily real world basis, its lovely not to have to worry or feel limited. For those who it doesn't effect daily, then it doesn't change the gaming experience at all.

 

I think part of the reason it has caused such an uproar is because a lot of people are uncomfortable with the idea of being around that many LGBT people/characters, most likely since they don't associate with that many LGB people on a day to day basis. Many people have, throughout DA2 discussions etc, that it is unrealistic for so many people to be LGBT in one area. Well, if you are a part of the LGBT community, then it actually might be more realistic to be around more LGBT than non LGBT people. And if you aren't, it was hardly shoved in your face. (In fact the only time I lost points with Anders over a romance thing was as FemHawke). Fenris and Isabela, both characters who could end up with people of either gender start seeing each other if you aren't dating one. So, still, even with Isabela, the games arguabley best example of bisexuality, the default becomes a straight relationship.

 

 

Most of the games fanbase is straight, romances straight? Terrific, you're taken care of, with maybe the exception of ONE LINE from Anders...which from the uproar they got isn't happening again anyways... If you're LGB or want to RP a character who happens to be LGB, then you're taken care of too. It's a single player experience, so ultimately, (just like with gay people in real life) what gay gamers do in their game has no bearing on your game/life and vice versa.

 

All of the characters Bioware creates are spectacular, and they all deserve to be remembered for more then who they were romanceable with. Its an important part of identity for characters, sure, but I think allowing real people the chance to engage with their real id, possibly as a minority, is far more important, and a far more admirable use of resources.

 

I have to say, this is the best post i've ever seen here in a while.

Bless you.

[TurretSyndrome]

What "fits" a character is what they're written as, and sexual orientation determines nothing about personality except how one responds to sex from specific genders. Isabela is no more "fitting" as bisexual than Merrill just because she's promiscuous.

 

Sexual orientation is a part of a character's personality. I wasn't implying that sexuality needs to assigned based on how the character generally behaves. I don't know about writer specifics so can't say what comes first, sexuality or other traits. What I can say is that writing a character should not involve trying to solve some kind of problem, which is exactly what all bi or all playersexual characters would be doing. 

[AresKeith]

What "fits" a character is what they're written as, and sexual orientation determines nothing about personality except how one responds to sex from specific genders. Isabela is no more "fitting" as bisexual than Merrill just because she's promiscuous.

He didn't say anything about it determining their personality, all he said was that their sexual orientation should be written with the character

[jncicesp]

Sexual orientation is a part of a character's personality. I wasn't implying that sexuality needs to assigned based on how the character generally behaves. I don't know about writer specifics so can't say what comes first, sexuality or other traits. What I can say is that writing a character should not involve trying to solve some kind of problem, which is exactly what all bi or all playersexual characters would be doing. 

I don't think I understand this really. They shouldn't make all of the LI's possible available to both genders only because..they shouldn't be available to both?

[Xilizhra]

Sexual orientation is a part of a character's personality. I wasn't implying that sexuality needs to assigned based on how the character generally behaves. I don't know about writer specifics so can't say what comes first, sexuality or other traits. What I can say is that writing a character should not involve trying to solve some kind of problem, which is exactly what all bi or all playersexual characters would be doing. 

How would it be?

[Andraste_Reborn]

What I can say is that writing a character should not involve trying to solve some kind of problem, which is exactly what all bi or all playersexual characters would be doing.

 

BioWare balances our companions so we have a certain number of warriors, rogues and mages. How is making sure we have a certain number of bisexual companions functionally different to making sure we have enough people who can open a locked door?

[Felya87]

 

 

thats neat, I felt the opposite. DA2 is the only one I can playthough and beat as a male. I dont have anything to say about it but its neat.

 

It's just what I felt about making a maleHawke. It feels just an estetic change from playng a femHawke. I simply like, when I change gender, to have different content, and feel as if I'm playng a different character. I prefer play as a female character, so when I play a male, and don't feel it change something from playng a female, I feel like I'm wasting time playng with a character who is basically the same, but it just have a beard on.

Don't know if I have explained myself well.

[TurretSyndrome]

I don't think I understand this really. They shouldn't make all of the LI's possible available to both genders only because..they shouldn't be available to both?

 

also @ Xilizhra  A character should be a bisexual because it is the way that they are defined, not because they are to be made available to a certain group of fans, not because they need to meet the  required romance quota. The availability of romance should not be the priority when creating a character, but the character itself. There are many other things to a character than their sexual orientation and romance option, something that is forgotten by a lot of people. I don't think I can explain any better than that. 

 

 

BioWare balances our companions so we have a certain number of warriors, rogues and mages. How is making sure we have a certain number of bisexual companions functionally different to making sure we have enough people who can open a locked door?

 

First of all, let me remind you that characters are meant to be a part of the narrative, the story itself. There is no character that is made just for fans and their romance craving. Gameplay balance is not a good analogy because gameplay and story have different requirements for characters. The gameplay part of the game requires every companion to have a class, but not every character is romanciable,or needs to be.

[JimboGee]

Putting aside my personal feelings on the whole matter, making every character open to any sexual encounter is a bad idea because you take away that characters personality.

 

Again it's the writer making the game players job easy which is not their job. Their job is to create colourful, annoying, crazy characters. Some of whom are just not interested in you. It's a lazy coding option. by not doing this you add potentially more playthrough options. It's not really fun if you can bed everyone in one sitting. At least to me anyways.

[Xilizhra]

also @ Xilizhra  A character should be a bisexual because it is the way that they are defined, not because they are to be made available to a certain group of fans, not because they need to meet the  required romance quota. The availability of romance should not be the priority when creating a character, but the character itself. There are many other things to a character than their sexual orientation and romance option, something that is forgotten by a lot of people. I don't think I can explain any better than that.

A lot of things are in mind when creating a character. Party balance. Mobility (no paraplegic characters). Fighting ability, and from that, age. Etc. Sexual orientation is just one of many things.

 

Again it's the writer making the game players job easy which is not their job. Their job is to create colourful, annoying, crazy characters. Some of whom are just not interested in you. It's a lazy coding option. by not doing this you add potentially more playthrough options. It's not really fun if you can bed everyone in one sitting. At least to me anyways.

Not interested... like Varric and Aveline?

[jncicesp]

also @ Xilizhra  A character should be a bisexual because it is the way that they are defined, not because they are to be made available to a certain group of fans, not because they need to meet the  required romance quota. The availability of romance should not be the priority when creating a character, but the character itself. There are many other things to a character than their sexual orientation and romance option, something that is forgotten by a lot of people. I don't think I can explain any better than that. 

 

 

 

First of all, let me remind you that characters are meant to be a part of the narrative, the story itself. There is no character that is made just for fans and their romance craving. Gameplay balance is not a good analogy because gameplay and story have different requirements for characters. The gameplay part of the game requires every companion to have a class, but not every character is romanciable,or needs to be.

Sure. they do have a ton of characters that have strict non-touchable sexualities..you can't romance them. Varric, Aveline...Oghren are about it I guess.

Romance options are romance options, Is there a reason for Alistair and Morrigan to be romance options? other than to appeal to a certain group of fans(who are kinda obsessed with them). It makes more sense for both of them to not be Romance options. them being straight  doesn't add anything to their character, their story or both mixed.

Ive read/heard more than a few times they only wrote Morrigan a romance because It was interesting. 

 

Everyones romance has been different so far, it goes with their story in both games. Characters are story components. their romance is too(I think it adds more for that character obviously too). Kind of like In Origins the more friendship you got the more you got to talk to them more and get new abilities you end up liking them more because of that. while getting to know them. not everyone talks to their companions(No idea why someone wouldn't want to do that) its there anyway. 

[AresKeith]

A lot of things are in mind when creating a character. Party balance. Mobility (no paraplegic characters). Fighting ability, and from that, age. Etc. Sexual orientation is just one of many things.

Not interested... like Varric and Aveline?

He's also talking about characters who are potential LIs

[phantomrachie]

 

 

If Bioware brings characters with predefined traits, as they should, there will always be certain characters who you may like but are not of the sexual orientation you prefer, and that's something you have to live with. If I don't see straight or bi female characters that I like, then that is something I will live with, not complain that the characters I did like turned out to be lesbians. I did the same thing when it came to Samantha, and I will do the same if there's a companion that I like in DA:I. 

 

 

 

 

Here is the difference between ME:3 and the current DA games - having Samantha and Steve as gay didn't reduce the potential LIs for anyone it added to them. So them being gay didn't mean you only had 1 other person to romance. (except if you were a straight femshep who had left Kaidan to die - then you were fecked)

 

I would much prefer a mix of LIs 2:2:2 but if we can't have that then it is better to have "player-sexual" content because then everyone has a choice.

 

In DA: O if you wanted a lesbian romance - you had one choice, Leliana and if you didn't like her - well tough. In DA:2 there is Merrill and Isabela and in ME:3 there is Liara and Samantha. 

 

In most games with romances - you have to play it straight because the plot has decided who you are going to romance. It is so nice to have a same sex choice in a game and it's even better when you have a choice of people to romance. 

 

Think of it this way; imagine if in most games you've ever played the romance was always same sex, and then all of a sudden you played a bioware game with a well written hetrosexual romance. You'd be delighted right? but then what if you never got a choice of who to romance, if there was only ever 1 hetrosexual person for you to romance. Wouldn't you want more choice?

 

That is what people are asking for and I don't think it is a ridiculous thing to ask for; as long as the characters continue to be well written.

 

As I said - think most people would prefer; 2 straight, 2 bi and 2 gay but if we can't get that due to budget constraints (which is a perfectly acceptable reason) then "player sexaul" provides the same choice to everyone. 

 

It's not laziness, it's being as fair as you can with the resources available.