1875 réponses à ce sujet

[fchopin]

Anders has been confirmed by Gaider as being bisexual.

Mr. Gaider can say Anders is bisexual if he likes but we don’t see this in the games.
As players we can only go by what we see in the game.

[Ryzaki]

You see it if you're playing a male Hawke. He and Isabela talk about that time in the Pearl

[daveliam]

Don’t you think it is bad writing if people are denied the possibility to explore sexuality how they like so they do not make a mistake?

 

No.  There are limited things that the game can do simply because of the medium.  The romance content only makes up about 30 mins worth of material in a given playthrough, in reality, so there is no way that they will be able to give you complete freedom in what you explore.  That isn't bad writing any more than it's not bad writing to not be able to ask a character about their favorite color or the name of their childhood best friend.  There simply have to be limits based on the medium.

 

Also, I'm not seeing what you mean by "mistake".

[daveliam]

Mr. Gaider can say Anders is bisexual if he likes but we don’t see this in the games.
As players we can only go by what we see in the game.

 

Ugh.  Two things:

 

1.)  Gaider is the head writer of the series AND the original character writer for the game.  Yes, he can say it and it means something whether you like that or not

and

2.)  Anders can be romanced by both men and women in the game.  In DA: A, he expresses interest in women.  In DA 2, he expresses interest in both men and women.  He explicitly states, "I am attracted to the person, not the body."  What else do you want to see?  Because if the only way that you will "accept" that he is bisexual is if he says, "Hey, player, I'm BISEXUAL!!!!", then you are going to be disappointed because that isn't what happens and that's on you, not the writers.  They provided the information.

[razmatazz]

9/10 times I hear that phrase it's being used in a sexual context.

 

When referring to large, muscular horned men who don't wear shirts: 99/100. 

 

Because Merrill's presented too ambiguously, I'm not inclined to make that kind assumption about her.

[fchopin]

Also, I'm not seeing what you mean by "mistake".

Why don’t the writers give us the option to ask?
Why can we not ask if someone is married for example.

[Ryzaki]

Game limitations and common sense. Marriage would only be relevant if they were romancing you and I'm pretty sure BW wouldn't make the PC the other man/woman without giving us heads up.

[razmatazz]

Mr. Gaider can say Anders is bisexual if he likes but we don’t see this in the games.
As players we can only go by what we see in the game.

 

I'm inclined to agree with fchopin on this, honestly.  Considering we have to go out of our way to see his post, it's a reason why I remain unconvinced Gaider has actually committed to anything.

[daveliam]

Why don’t the writers give us the option to ask?
Why can we not ask if someone is married for example.

 

Why can't you ask them if they like apricots?  Why can't you ask them if they are messy at home?  Why can't you ask them how many baths they take a week?

 

Because it's a video game and there has to be limitations to what you can do because of the medium.  The writers decide what story they want to be able to tell and the things that you want to ask don't fit into it.  It's not sloppy writing or bad writing and it doesn't mean that the character is not well written.

[J-Reyno]

I'm fairly sure it's not the intention. The dev's have said that Anders did have a relationship with Karl if Hawke is female, he just didn't mention it. 

 

Well now I wonder, if you knew this then why would you ask how to write a fanfiction about Anders if he does, indeed, already have a predetermined sexuality and relationship with Karl?

 

I thought we were discussing potential characters that didn't have a defined sexuality.  Characters who we as the players could determine their sexuality to match our interests.  But then you bring up Anders, who isn't really a part of that discussion because he is bisexual.  In Anders case the only thing that is determined is whether or not the PC takes interest in him, not his past relationships or recognized sexuality.

[daveliam]

I'm inclined to agree with fchopin on this, honestly.  Considering we have to go out of our way to see his post, it's a reason why I remain unconvinced Gaider has actually committed to anything.

 

You can choose not to use it, but that doesn't mean that it's not true.  However, you are then making an argument without using all of the evidence, so that's on you.  Your argument is half-formed because you are choosing to just not include some information because......you don't want to?  Not a terribly compelling argument.

[Ianamus]

Why can't you ask them how many baths they take a week?

 

Because they don't have baths in Kirwall, obviously. What did Merrill have, one bucket and a hole in the ground?

[razmatazz]

You can choose not to use it, but that doesn't mean that it's not true.  However, you are then making an argument without using all of the evidence, so that's on you.  Your argument is half-formed because you are choosing to just not include some information because......you don't want to?  Not a terribly compelling argument.

 

Hey, if it's not anywhere in the lore where it can't be easily missed (like I missed his blog post until it was brought to my attention in this thread), it's all too easy for Mr. Gaider to be able to change his mind on it later without drawing significant unwanted attention to it when he does it.  But maybe that is just me.

 

Edit:  And if you ask me further, I can't help but think some of you are cutting "Lord" Gaider a little too much slack.

[daveliam]

Well now I wonder, if you knew this then why would you ask how to write a fanfiction about Anders if he does, indeed, already have a predetermined sexuality and relationship with Karl?

 

I thought we were discussing potential characters that didn't have a defined sexuality.  Characters who we as the players could determine their sexuality to match our interests.  But then you bring up Anders, who isn't really a part of that discussion because he is bisexual.  In Anders case the only thing that is determined is whether or not the PC takes interest in him, not his past relationships or recognized sexuality.

 

 

This is why I argue that this entire thread is possibly moot because we know that Isabela and Anders are bisexual and we don't know if Fenris and Merrill are playersexual OR just bisexual without explicitly stating it.  I'm not convinced.  Again, if Fenris or Merrill said to a male Hawke, "I am only interested in men." and then to a female Hawke, "I am only interested in females.", then I would be convinced that they are playersexual.

[Ryzaki]

Because they don't have baths in Kirwall, obviously. What did Merrill have, one bucket and a hole in the ground?

 

Probably was rat droppings in the bucket too.

[KaiserShep]

Why don’t the writers give us the option to ask?
Why can we not ask if someone is married for example.

 

I suppose it depends on the situation. Perhaps not actually using the word "married" per se, but rather inquiring as to someone's relationship status. A good example is if you started a romance with Liara in ME1, and ask her about Feron during LotSB.

[J-Reyno]

This is why I argue that this entire thread is possibly moot because we know that Isabela and Anders are bisexual and we don't know if Fenris and Merrill are playersexual OR just bisexual without explicitly stating it.  I'm not convinced.  Again, if Fenris or Merrill said to a male Hawke, "I am only interested in men." and then to a female Hawke, "I am only interested in females.", then I would be convinced that they are playersexual.

 

I just assumed they were all playersexual except Isabella.  But, who knows.  I didn't think it was a bad way to go about it all the same, and I'd like to see more of it.

[Lulupab]

Isabela is confirmed bisexual and so is Anders.

 

If you are male and flirt with Fenris, Isabela flirts with him too and he seems to like both of them so he could be potentially bisexual too. One can think Danarius liked him.

 

Only Merril can be viewed as playersexual.

[J-Reyno]

Yeah I just found out about Anders.  As far as Fenris goes well... I also like to flirt with ladies, a lot, so... who knows, haha.

[Sylvius the Mad]

There is a difference between the story from the start of the game being pre-written and pre-defined and the story before the game begins being pre-written and pre-defined. Obviously the player writes the story as they go, but I do not think that they should not be able to change or re-write things that happened before the beginning of the story, like the sexuality a character was born with or their sexual history. 

But if those things are not established within the story, why not let the player change them?  We can headcanon basically anything we want.

[razmatazz]

@daveliam  I'll also add that, outside of this thread, I'm actually not well connected to the online community.  Until I saw Ispan's link in this thread, I was oblivious to Mr. Gaider's blog post for three years.  Three years!  Do you really think that's reasonable?

 

Again, I don't think the onus should be on us to seek these answers out.  I'm also willing to bet there are plenty of others out there who remain unconnected to varying degrees.  Without the foresight to google "Is Anders bisexual?", what do you expect those people to assume?

[Stelae]

Isabela is confirmed bisexual and so is Anders.

 

If you are male and flirt with Fenris, Isabela flirts with him too and he seems to like both of them so he could be potentially bisexual too. One can think Danarius liked him.

 

Only Merril can be viewed as playersexual.

 

On Fenris, and please don't think I'm attacking you, what he was required to do as a slave is not necessarily indicative of his preferences.  Some of Danarius's dialogue is skeevy to the point of being predatory, but that's about what he does, not about what Fenris wants. 

[daveliam]

@daveliam  I'll also add that, outside of this thread, I'm actually not well connected to the online community.  Until I saw Ispan's link in this thread, I was oblivious to Mr. Gaider's blog post for three years.  Three years!  Do you really think that's reasonable?

 

Again, I don't think the onus should be on us to seek these answers out.  I'm also willing to bet there are plenty of others out there who remain unconnected to varying degrees.  Without the foresight to google "Is Anders bisexual?", what do you expect those people to assume?

 

Sorry, let me clarify what I meant:

 

I didn't mean the onus is you, because I don't think that this is the case.  I think it would be best if we could get it right from the game.  However, with a rich fictional series like Dragon Age that has outside of game content (such as the writer blogs, books, webseries, anime, and comics), there is going to be information that we learn outside of the game.  Some people will have access to that content because they seek it out and other won't.

 

My point wasn't that you should have to see out that content, because you don't have to and to suggest otherwise would be silly.  However, when you are presented with information from those sources, I think it is short-sighted and a little close-minded to simply ignore it because it's not in the game.  That was my point.  Dragon Age is more than a game series now and, like it or not, people will be referencing the world as known from all of the source materials when discussing the characters and plots that we see in the game.  So, in my opinion, the fact that Anders has been confirmed by the head writer in an outside of the games source is good enough for me to accept that as fact. 

 

It doesn't change the fact that I really wish he would have just talked about Karl with female Hawke so that we could avoid this whole discussion!

[Lulupab]

On Fenris, and please don't think I'm attacking you, what he was required to do as a slave is not necessarily indicative of his preferences.  Some of Danarius's dialogue is skeevy to the point of being predatory, but that's about what he does, not about what Fenris wants. 

 

Not at all. I was just pointing it out. Even so if male Hawke flirts with him he flirts with Isabela as well. This doesn't mean he is bisexual however but he could be.

 

Yeah I just found out about Anders.  As far as Fenris goes well... I also like to flirt with ladies, a lot, so... who knows, haha.

 

Haha, gays are such a tease. My gay friends do that all the time but I enjoy it more than they do! Nothing wrong with occasional teasing

[razmatazz]

Sorry, let me clarify what I meant:

 

I didn't mean the onus is you, because I don't think that this is the case.  I think it would be best if we could get it right from the game.  However, with a rich fictional series like Dragon Age that has outside of game content (such as the writer blogs, books, webseries, anime, and comics), there is going to be information that we learn outside of the game.  Some people will have access to that content because they seek it out and other won't.

 

My point wasn't that you should have to see out that content, because you don't have to and to suggest otherwise would be silly.  However, when you are presented with information from those sources, I think it is short-sighted and a little close-minded to simply ignore it because it's not in the game.  That was my point.  Dragon Age is more than a game series now and, like it or not, people will be referencing the world as known from all of the source materials when discussing the characters and plots that we see in the game.  So, in my opinion, the fact that Anders has been confirmed by the head writer in an outside of the games source is good enough for me to accept that as fact. 

 

It doesn't change the fact that I really wish he would have just talked about Karl with female Hawke so that we could avoid this whole discussion!

 

Fine, but you seem to be missing part of my point: this isn't just about me.

 

I don't read the books; I neither have the time nor patience to read any novels when I'd rather devote what free time I do have to other activities besides playing Dragon Age, like exercise, drawing, watching tv, surfing the net for other topics of interest, and, believe it or not, playing other games.  Outside of this thread, I've barely devoted any time at all to the forum or anywhere else the online community exists.  The only other place I regularly go for lore is the wiki, but even there I'm not taking the time to sift through every single article.  And no way in heck am I alone.

 

This is why I believe Mr. Gaider has left too big a gap by which he can possibly skate free without significant repercussions.  And I sincerely hope he (or anyone else) doesn't expect everyone who has played his games to devote even more time to reading the books, perusing the blogs, participating in the online community, and going anywhere else where all this info exists.

 

And I'm not even suggesting that Mr. Gaider will take advantage of that gap.  But if he sincerely wants as many people as possible to discover and accept what he has decided on (particularly stuff brought up in-game), he really should commit to it where the consumers are most concentrated, where it really counts the most: the games.