1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Rainbow Wyvern]

Nice to know that since I'm bisexual, that must mean that I'm a promiscuous woman who has sex with everything, even though I'm actually a virgin.

 

Good to know you know what all bisexuals are like, BSN!

[Eveangaline]

I liked Leliana, for starters.

 

But while yeah, having them be bisexual is good from a technical standpoint since it means you won't be stuck with an unlikeable character (cough cough, Isabela, cough cough), it still feels weird in a story/plot/character sense.

 

Why does everyone the Inquisitor meets happen to be bisexual and ready to do the nasty with him/her? I guess that's where you could include the whole "Some people don't like certain actions" aspect.

Man if we only meet 4 people in this whole game it's gonna be really boring.

[WildOrchid]

Nice to know that since I'm bisexual, that must mean that I'm a promiscuous woman who has sex with everything, even though I'm actually a virgin.

 

Good to know you know what all bisexuals are like, BSN!

 

It pretty much shows how most people are so ignorant about sexuality. Sad.

[esper]

I was once of the opinion that the six Li's with various orientation was the better option. I am not anymore. Now I am all pan (or bi) sexual. My reason is this:

 

Bioware is not a dating sim. If it was, if the focus was on romance I would be all right with having to do differnet characters for differents romances, but it is not the romances are a minior part in the story, the are a flavour and an important part of forming your character, which I think is the most important aspect of this roleplaying game.

 

I don't see the CC as part of the in game, I see it as a meta-choice and I only want in game choices to lock content. So until I start acting in the world I want all the story archs to be avaible to the character.

 

My reason for this Morrigan, Alistair and Anders. For both Morrigan and Alistair the dark ritual and for Alistair he possible coronation is just not the same story wiht friends or lovers and none of the stories are impossible to tell with the same gender, no not even ritual. As for Anders his final act is again not just the same things for a friend or a lover he have lived together with for three years - it is not the same story and it is frustrating to be locked out of stories archs before I have even begun to play.

 

There are only two solutions to this besides making the them all open to both gender. Focus solely on the love story in the main story - thus the differences becomes the point (as in dating sims) or make them so non-essential to the main story that it doesn't influence the main story in any way Neither thing is a story I want to play. The first because the focus would become too great, and the second because the focus wouldn't exist at all.

 

Which makes a need for all main story essentials LI's to be bi and all  main story non essentials LI as well, because for some players having someone not directly involved with the main craziness is the breath of fresh air and pause from the main story which sometimes is needed.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I don't like the suggestions of making Dragon Age a sexual power fantasy, and suggestions like this do just that. "Make the characters love me no matter who I am". No. I'd rather see fleshed out characters. Characters with their own preferences, their wants, their desires, their sexual tastes, their romantic tastes, not just a bunch of pansexual "Sex EVERYTHING (as long as it's the player!)" people.

 

The way you're using pansexual makes me think you don't actually understand what the identity pansexual is. It most definitely does not have any correlation to the quantity of sex one has (this also applies to being bisexual as well). It means that one has the capacity to be attracted to a person reguardless of gender. Not that they are attracted to everyone of every gender ever, or even most people of every gender. Simply, that their interest in a person is not dependent on their biological sex.

 

All of the Dragon Age characters DO have their own wants, desires etc. As for sexual tastes and romantic taste...we've never gotten an idea of that from companions...except maybe Isabela. There are no conversations where we ask Fenris, Anders, Morrigan etc what their ideal romantic date would be. Or how they want to have sex. Which...would cross a lot of lines potentailly and I'm glad that the game doesn't go there. But the rest? Wants, desires...yeah, we get those. Isabela wants a new ship. Fenris wants to be free of Danarius. Anders wants mages to be free. Merrill wants to save her people.

 

People continue to make this arguement that by letting multiple characters be bisexual or even not have a defined sexuality in the game, that they are somehow weaker characters for it. Which, literally makes no sense. None. AT ALL. If that one trait was completely defined, gay/straight/bi/pan anything, it wouldn't change anything about the character. Isabela still wants her ship, Fenris wants to be free, Anders wants the mages freedom, and Merrill wants to save her people. It is extremely weird and vaguely disconcerting that some people seem to view this sexuality arguement as so crucial to the characters, as if without having it clearly and repeatedly labeled somehow breaks all these characters. Who they may slep with is ultimately inconsequential to the characters larger wants and desires that actually shape their actions over the course of the game. Which is exactly how sexuality works! If you want to be a firefighter or a fashion designer or spend all your time at protest rallies for such and such cause those desires don't change because of who you also chose to sleep with.

 

 

*I should clarify that I myself am not pansexual, and am only basing my definition on what friends with that id have told me and such. If you persoanlly identify as pan and feel I have misrepresented your id, I am very sorry and please please please feel free to correct me here or by private message!

[CybAnt1]

It pretty much shows how most people are so ignorant about sexuality. Sad.

 

There is no scientifically proven link between sexual orientation and most other personality traits, including but not limited to level of sexual interest/activity. There are plenty of asexual homosexuals and bisexuals (as many as straights). Bisexuals are often depicted as promiscuous (my favorite example is Basic Instinct), sexually aggressive, or even dangerous. Homosexuals are supposed to act like the opposite sex in many areas (yet Rock Hudson was gay, and as "macho" a "macho man" as you could find in Hollywood.) Many people also seem to think they don't ever desire committed, long-term relationships. The worst example of this is associating homosexuality with pedophilia, when most pedophiles are heterosexual.

 

We could go on, but I have no apologies to previous posters claiming all these strange sexuality-personality links; they don't have a scientific leg to stand on. The key point is this; you cannot know a person's sexual orientation unless you either know their sexual history, or they tell you; there are no other valid "personality" or behavioral clues. 

[GVulture]

There is a difference between Playersexual and Bisexual and I think a lot of people forget that. Playersexual means that the fictional character will be attracted to the player character no matter the race, skin color, sexuality, or gender. They're not "all bisexual". Unless stated otherwise in the game's lore, like Zevran or Isabela, they're not all swinging both ways.They just swing like a compass and the PC is North.

 

Example, Kaidan in Mass Effect... for Femshep, he is turbo straight. Even tries his hand at dating someone else when Shepard is dead and buried. For a BroShep... "have you ever seen me with anyone else?" Nope, we sure haven't because the "I dated someone else" dialogue is only triggered for a romanced Femshep. Whomp whomp.

 

So... yeah... a Playersexual NPC only wants the player.

 

Also, I find it ridiculous that some people use the argument that it "isn't realistic" to have so many bisexual characters and all I have to say is that this is a fictional world and I have read PLENTY of fictional and historical societies that didn't put such a weird stigma on sex and sexual partners. Is it REALLY so hard to imagine that Thedas is one of them? You're already making the leap to believe in magic, demons, and dragons but believing that no one cares about who is sleeping with whom is too much?

[oceanicsurvivor]

While I agree, I can't help but feel like it's just pandering. "Here, welcome to our world of lovey-dovey kindness where you'll be accepted for who you are! Everyone who comes with you will be bisexual and tolerant of you!"

 

It's a perfect world, but not a real one. It's not a major issue, but if I have all of my companions hitting on me at random intervals in the story, it's going to get irritating. Are we running an adventure party or a sex caravan? Why not have companions like Aveline, who are already romantically involved and turn down the PC? I know bisexual people are no more or less promiscuous than straights or gays, but still, having everyone pronounce themselves bisexual and go for the PC to make the actual player feel accepted just seems weird. Having all characters be gay or all characters be straight wouldn't be good either, but I think there should be a balance. Some characters should just not be into your chosen gender or race.

 

From a technical standpoint though I totally agree. Having multiple romanceable characters for both genders definitely fixes the issue of "I don't like this character, but he/she is the only one for my chosen gender and sexual preference".

 

Our world is not Thedas. Characters sexuality isn't one of the world of Thedas's many problems (Qunari invasion, Blights, Mages vs. Templars etc are the worlds problems).  So, speaking as LGBT gamer I want that lovey-dovey world where I'll be accepted for who I am. I don't need a game so I can role play non acceptance and having to hide who I am from extended family; lots of LGBT gamers can do that any day of the week.

 

I hate that term pandering. Furthering equality isn't pandering. One of the many ways equality is achieved is by greater exposure to an issue that lessens ostricized groups percieved 'otherness'. And reguardless of the larger social real world context, again, our world isn't Thedas, so the writers can create whatever world they want.  Why is it that real world inclusivity is pandering but putting in real world bigotries that have no place in Thedas is considered realism, and not, ya know, pandering?

 

Only half of the companions really hit on you. Less than really if you have Sebastian. Merill never does anything and Fenris's comment about finding a man/woman so capable can be taken as complimentary or flirtatious and you can ignore it and nothing ever happens. And Anders doesn't automatically hit on you. I've played DA2 four times and have only had that happen once. What concerns me more is random NPCs who do hit on you, like Daveth in Origins does if you're a female warden. Daveth seems decent enough if you play as a dude but if you play as a woman he kinda becomes a total creep. That was far more upsetting then having real companions express any degree of interest during the 7 year period they know you.

 

And why do people seem so concerned that bisexuality is practically character assassination for these fictional LI's but don't consider it a worthy goal to be inclusive and let the real world gamer, especially LGBT ones, feel accepted in a fictional enviornment? It has baffled me for 80 pages now. Because even if there was a correlation between bisexual LI's or playersexual LI's and weaker characters (And no one has proven that beyond to say it doesn't 'feel' right to have so many bi people in one place ), I would like to imagine that the real world considerations would matter to people more. But again, at the end of the day, all of these characters were strong independent people with their own goals, desires, sense of humor, and storyline, and just maybe they ended up with Hawke.

 

 

Everyone who has ever tried dating on this earth has been rejected. No exceptions, ever. Some people reject for various reasons, and sometimes it's sexuality. I just think it's more realistic to not make everyone you have in your party bisexual. Make some people have concrete tastes, you know? I like Ashley Williams a lot, I liked Morrigan a lot, I liked Garrus a lot, and they were all heterosexual characters. Just like bisexuality won't ruin a character, it also won't ruin a character if they're heterosexual.

 

And having everyone be bisexual isn't a bad thing! I'm not saying that. I just don't want it to feel forced, like Bioware was required to pander to their audience. If it feels natural, I'll be fine with it. Have a character like Morrigan, someone heterosexual, and eventually prove to them your same-gendered character is worth their affection! It opens up a lot of room for character development rather than just greenlighting everyone in the party as sexable above everything else.

 

And why does sexuality have to be the main point? What about race? I sure as hell don't want to do the mambo with a Qunari. Why make everyone in the party blind to race/species?

 

Bottom line is that I don't care what sexuality or preference characters have, as long as it feels appropriate and natural, not a forced thing for pandering's sake.

 

Ah, sorry, just saw this.

 

People do still reject you in game...Aveline you can hit on and if you're a man you either can't flirt with or can't end up with Sebastian.

 

I don't think characters are ruined by heterosexuality no,( and it should be remembered that no one outside the LI's is ever an openly gay non romanceable companion). What I do think is that those are three of THE most popular/prominent modern bioware characters out there. And they are all straight. Which is really too bad in that they were all amazingly done characters, and if my Femshep had been able to sleep with Ashley it woudln't have changed a single thing about Ashley. Same with if Garrus had slept with maleShep. Garrus would still be the most awesome badass Turian in the galexy.

 

Morrigan is the only character whose sexuality has had anything to do with the plot ever. She needed a Warden baby. So, yeah, it helped if she was already sleeping with someone who could give her that. Which really doesn't say anything about her potentail for a same-sex relationship, since ultimately, Morrigan was on a mission that a femWarden couldn't have helped her with and as we've seen her mission was ultimately her number one objective, above romance.

 

I still disagree with you on this idea of pandering though. And I don't know what part of a character being bisexual would feel 'unnatural', since literally anyone can be bisexual and there is no set way a person acts if they are bisexual. So, I can't  point to Isabela and go, 'yep, she feels bi to me,' and then turn to Merrill and go 'nope, no way, it just doesn't work. She seems straight...I don't know what it is, it just feels that way.'

[daveliam]

While I agree, I can't help but feel like it's just pandering. "Here, welcome to our world of lovey-dovey kindness where you'll be accepted for who you are! Everyone who comes with you will be bisexual and tolerant of you!"

 

It's a perfect world, but not a real one. It's not a major issue, but if I have all of my companions hitting on me at random intervals in the story, it's going to get irritating. Are we running an adventure party or a sex caravan? Why not have companions like Aveline, who are already romantically involved and turn down the PC? I know bisexual people are no more or less promiscuous than straights or gays, but still, having everyone pronounce themselves bisexual and go for the PC to make the actual player feel accepted just seems weird. Having all characters be gay or all characters be straight wouldn't be good either, but I think there should be a balance. Some characters should just not be into your chosen gender or race.

 

From a technical standpoint though I totally agree. Having multiple romanceable characters for both genders definitely fixes the issue of "I don't like this character, but he/she is the only one for my chosen gender and sexual preference".

 

Are you operating under the impression that all of the companions will be LI's, because I don't think that this is the case.  I'm confident that there will be plenty of companions who aren't fliriting with the Inquisitor (probably more than half, actually).  I don't get the idea of a "sex caravan" unless you find the need to engage in sex with all of them.

 

A good example to refute your argument is the fact that a male Shepard in ME 2 and ME 3 has 7 females "throwing themselves" at him which feels way more of a "sex caravan" than having just 4 people like DA 2.  And the fact that all of those women are either straight or bisexual with set sexualities, kind of blows giant holes in your argument.

[Ryzaki]

Hell Shep has 4 females in ONE game make a pass at him. (You can avoid Miranda with some careful dancing but not the rest). (Hell let's boost that up to 6 if you include the ME1 females you helped (Parasini and the asari chick. Forgot her name).

 

Also Garrus and Tali are only romances because of fanpandering.

 

Everytime someone uses ME as an example of non fanservice LIs a baby seal dies.

 

Stop killing the baby seals people. Stop.

[GVulture]

Are you operating under the impression that all of the companions will be LI's, because I don't think that this is the case.  I'm confident that there will be plenty of companions who aren't fliriting with the Inquisitor (probably more than half, actually).  I don't get the idea of a "sex caravan" unless you find the need to engage in sex with all of them.

 

A good example to refute your argument is the fact that a male Shepard in ME 2 and ME 3 has 7 females "throwing themselves" at him which feels way more of a "sex caravan" than having just 4 people like DA 2.  And the fact that all of those women are either straight or bisexual with set sexualities, kind of blows giant holes in your argument.

I was jealous of BroShep's sex caravan. As a Femshep, my only option in ME3 without hacks was Kaidan, Liara, or Traynor. For some, that could only be Liara and Traynor. It is completely possible to not have a heterosexual romance option in Mass Effect 3 for Femshep.

 

 

Our world is not Thedas. Characters sexuality isn't one of the world of Thedas's many problems (Qunari invasion, Blights, Mages vs. Templars etc are the worlds problems).  So, speaking as LGBT gamer I want that lovey-dovey world where I'll be accepted for who I am. I don't need a game so I can role play non acceptance and having to hide who I am from extended family; lots of LGBT gamers can do that any day of the week.

 

I hate that term pandering. Furthering equality isn't pandering. One of the many ways equality is achieved is by greater exposure to an issue that lessens ostricized groups percieved 'otherness'. And reguardless of the larger social real world context, again, our world isn't Thedas, so the writers can create whatever world they want.  Why is it that real world inclusivity is pandering but putting in real world bigotries that have no place in Thedas is considered realism, and not, ya know, pandering?

 

Only half of the companions really hit on you. Less than really if you have Sebastian. Merill never does anything and Fenris's comment about finding a man/woman so capable can be taken as complimentary or flirtatious and you can ignore it and nothing ever happens. And Anders doesn't automatically hit on you. I've played DA2 four times and have only had that happen once. What concerns me more is random NPCs who do hit on you, like Daveth in Origins does if you're a female warden. Daveth seems decent enough if you play as a dude but if you play as a woman he kinda becomes a total creep. That was far more upsetting then having real companions express any degree of interest during the 7 year period they know you.

 

And why do people seem so concerned that bisexuality is practically character assassination for these fictional LI's but don't consider it a worthy goal to be inclusive and let the real world gamer, especially LGBT ones, feel accepted in a fictional enviornment? It has baffled me for 80 pages now. Because even if there was a correlation between bisexual LI's or playersexual LI's and weaker characters (And no one has proven that beyond to say it doesn't 'feel' right to have so many bi people in one place ), I would like to imagine that the real world considerations would matter to people more. But again, at the end of the day, all of these characters were strong independent people with their own goals, desires, sense of humor, and storyline, and just maybe they ended up with Hawke.

I'm a straight, female gamer, and I want this world too. Because well... who would CHOOSE a place that doesn't accept others for how they are born? =p

[AresKeith]

I never said ME did it right, bro. And Garrus was romanceable from the start. I don't see how that was fanpandering.

 

 

Garrus being a romance option was fanpandering, same as Tali

[daveliam]

 And Garrus was romanceable from the start. I don't see how that was fanpandering.

 

Nope.  Garrus wasn't romanceable until ME 2.  And he was added after fan interest in a romance for him. 

[GVulture]

I never said ME did it right, bro. And Garrus was romanceable from the start. I don't see how that was fanpandering.

 

But yeah, Mass Effect went overboard with the whole "sci-fi TV show where tons of alien and human girls and guys wanna sleep with your captain" fantasy. Mass Effect does punch a whole in my argument, which I totally accept, but one hole doesn't bring it all down, I don't think.

So... Mass Effect series began at ME2 for you? Because Garrus was totally not romancable in the first game. Both he and Tali weren't even supposed to be in the second game at all.

[Ryzaki]

I never said ME did it right, bro. And Garrus was romanceable from the start. I don't see how that was fanpandering.

 

But yeah, Mass Effect went overboard with the whole "sci-fi TV show where tons of alien and human girls and guys wanna sleep with your captain" fantasy. Mass Effect does punch a whole in my argument, which I totally accept, but one hole doesn't bring it all down, I don't think.

 

Then that wasn't directed at you. Plenty of other people are saying ME3 did it better than DA2 while ignoring the fact that it...really didn't. Everytime I play a straight male in BW games the romances do feel plenty power fantasy so I never understood the whole "it feels so authentic!" because even from BG2 I never got that. Had three psycho chicks (one who's husband just DIED ffs) trying to grab my PC's junk. ****. That.

[GVulture]

Also, "pandering" is only used when the person means, "I don't want it, therefore, if it ever shows up it is because someone else was a whining baby and got it added and MY opinion was ignored. Stupid pandering." If it was something THEY want... well... fanservice... or "it just fit the story, yo. Deal with it."

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Playersexual is the best option possible. The charcters are not gay,lesbian straight etc... but are made to be romancable with your character.

 

For example we know for a fact that Isabelia is bisexual however not the other characters.

 

When you make a male Hawke, Anders and Fenris are gay and Merril is straight. Opposite is true if you make a female Hawke. Not all the characters are bisexual.

Uh, no. The characters are all bi, regardless. Anders was in fact pictured as potentially bi from the start. We have this from the writers.

[GVulture]

Then that wasn't directed at you. Plenty of other people are saying ME3 did it better than DA2 while ignoring the fact that it...really didn't. Everytime I play a straight male in BW games the romances do feel plenty power fantasy so I never understood the whole "it feels so authentic!" because even from BG2 I never got that. Had three psycho chicks (one who's husband just DIED ffs) trying to grab my PC's junk. ****. That.

Yeah... with you there. If Bioware had "got it right" in ME3, a het FemShep wouldn't lose two of her possible romances through no choice of her own while ignoring the UST that was the greatness of Jimmy Vega (for those he lit fires for, not me, but still). The only thing they "did right" was write two purely homosexual characters well. But the rest of the LIs? No... as Mordin would say... they were problematic.