1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Vapaa]

That's the thing with Mass Effect, it's assumes a lot. It assumes Wrex was with you on Noveria, and that Garrus "pulled you out of the fire" on Virmire and Ilos.

 

I always thought ME in general gave too much player agency without thinking ahead.

 

Are you sure this isn't just because you're a Talimancer and you feel like Garrus is trying to muscle in on your action?

 

That's a shitty argument if I ever saw one, if I want to romance Tali, I can.

It more a rant about how Tali and Garrus have bean treated due to their fan favorite status, first some romance out of nowhere (but it's straight romance so it isn't cheapening them, right ?) then an asspull last-minute hookup.

 

And that gets me back on topic: Garrus and Tali is not considered playersexuals, but Anders somehow is, wonder what the difference is

[Felya87]

The Tali/Garrus thing was the most pathetic romance-related thing I've ever saw, it's so utterly out of nowhere between two characters you barely see interacting...but they're togheter cause they're both fan favorite (see ? "cheapening" NPCs is totally irrevelant to so called "playersexuality). That said, it was just an another step on the "bending the characters to appease the fanbase" nonsense Tali and Garrus suffered since ME2.

 

I'm all for romance between companions, if it makes sense; it made for Joker/EDI because they intereact all the time (and Joker was already shipsexual even before ME2), and it would make sense for say Varric and Cassandra, but if they suddently pull

 

curious. I find the Joker/EDI relationship creepy and of poor taste (I like the characters, but not the "romantic" interaction between them) since it came out of nowhere, and develop way too rapidly. EDI should be, even accordingly to the question she have for Shepard, still too immature in all the emotion/umanity department. I like the fact that she is learning. but did she and Joker have to jump in a relationship the same moment she have a body? no little drama about she being a freaking machine?

EDI and Joker relationship feel like a teen erotic fantasy out of a poor hard movie, with romantic phrases put inside to just give some kind of contest to joker's (or teen boys) erotic fantasy. I loved much more the (still creepy) but more natural-feeling of ME2 EDI. ME3 EDI feel like a creepy sex-bot with a Pinocchio complex.

and it is obviously writeen to give doubts about a certan choice at the end of the game. >_>

 

Tali and Garrus have know each other for years now. and had a few interactions here and there. they aren't strangers to each other. just because they "came out" in ME3, doesn't mean a thing. I know people who had been friends for years, not even flirting with each others. than they just tried to go out together alone. now they have buyed a house to start a family together.

Tali and Garrus doesn't feel innatural at all. they aren't even that originals. we had seen a few quarian/turian relationship here and there. I don't see them as fan service either.

[Zazzerka]

That's a shitty argument if I ever saw one, if I want to romance Tali, I can.

 

Absolutely, you can! Don't let that sleazebag put you off!

 

And that gets me back on topic: Garrus and Tali is not considered playersexuals, but Anders somehow is, wonder what the difference is

 

Garrus and Tali are both straight. I've got no idea how they're related to playersexuality at all.

[JCFR]

The Tali/Garrus thing was the most pathetic romance-related thing I've ever saw, it's so utterly out of nowhere between two characters you barely see interacting...but they're togheter cause they're both fan favorite (see ? "cheapening" NPCs is totally irrevelant to so called "playersexuality). That said, it was just an another step on the "bending the characters to appease the fanbase" nonsense Tali and Garrus suffered since ME2.

 

I'm all for romance between companions, if it makes sense; it made for Joker/EDI because they intereact all the time (and Joker was already shipsexual even before ME2), and it would make sense for say Varric and Cassandra, but if they suddently pull

I totally agree  with that. I always thougt it's kinda strange in Origin to have a romance betwen CHarakters that barely talk to each other - i mean you could romance someone even if he or she just stood around in the camp all the time. Just give him/her all the stuf he/she likes and there we go. Makes a lot of sense.

DA2 was a bit better since it had some personal 1 on 1 talks and some charakter-specific-quests but still it felt a bit lazy.

 

The only time i felt like my Charakter really bonded with a companion was in Baldur's Gate 2. Since there you had to keep your Love interest in the Party all the time and they startet discussions on their own - which made them feel much less like a puppet. And even though most people say Aerie was the best i say it's Viconia. Yes, she was a bit haughty, arrogant and a bully but that's just on the outside.

 

I know, it's unlikely for DAI to be like that but still it could do better. For example: Don't just leave the companions you don't add to your party in the castle like a car in a garage. Give them Missions like training the new recruits or go on a scoutmissions/ a patrol  or meet a political delegation  and after your Party returns from their own mission you can talk to him/her about the outcome or even go on a search and rescue mission if they didn't return.

Just add things that make your caompanions seem important and make your Inquisitor bond with them.

[WildOrchid]

I like the romances between other companions. It makes them seem more real to me. I really like seeing them develop relationships with each other, just of any kind. It makes sense that these people would form bonds and develop romances after all the time we spend together, rather than everyone only ever communicating with the PC.

 

I agree, I'd love to see this. But..... what annoyed me in DA2 was the fact that almost all of your companions would start something with the opposite gender only and not of the same. That made me cringe tbh, with the straight being the default and all.

 

 

 

I'd like to see for once someone of the companions starting a relationship with a person of the same gender.

[Jorji Costava]

Garrus and Tali are both straight. I've got no idea how they're related to playersexuality at all.

 

The concern is that while Tali and Garrus are straight, they are both willing to romance mShep no matter how rabidly pro-Cerberus he is, no matter how many genocides he's committed, etc. If the concern about 'playersexuality' is that it's catering to player desires at the expense of characterization, then Tali and Garrus are as clear an example of this as anyone BW has written.

[KaiserShep]

The Tali/Garrus thing was the most pathetic romance-related thing I've ever saw, it's so utterly out of nowhere between two characters you barely see interacting...but they're togheter cause they're both fan favorite (see ? "cheapening" NPCs is totally irrevelant to so called "playersexuality). That said, it was just an another step on the "bending the characters to appease the fanbase" nonsense Tali and Garrus suffered since ME2.

ME3 dropped enough hints here and there that it was hardly surprising that they ended up having a thing for each other. Their banter over the intercom was flirty enough, and if you bring Garrus to the geth dreadnought, they're pretty transparent (I bring Garrus everywhere, so the first thing I heard was him offering tali dextro chocolates). We don't have to actually see them sitting together all the time on the ship to get the idea. Plus, we already saw turians and quarians mingling before these two, so it's not as if they're an anomaly.

[Pateu]

The Tali/Garrus thing was the most pathetic romance-related thing I've ever saw, it's so utterly out of nowhere between two characters you barely see interacting

 

Apart from going on world-saving campaigns on an average of 3 times in 4 years?

 

Apart from Garrus and Tali being both Dextro, i.e. Garrus is the only one Tali could have a romance with ''safely'' ( ignoring the suit issue ).

 

Apart from their flirts throughout ME3.

 

The concern is that while Tali and Garrus are straight, they are both willing to romance mShep

 

Unless you count bromance as homosexual, no.

 

Garrus is straight.

[daveliam]

Yeah, Garrus and Tali aren't examples of playersexuality.  They are great examples of fanservice, though.

 

There really wasn't any playersexuality in the ME series.  All of the bisexual characters were clearly bisexual and not just playersexual.  The only one who might count as playersexuality would be Allers, but I've never romanced her so I'm completely sure of that.

[mars_central]

 

I totally agree  with that. I always thougt it's kinda strange in Origin to have a romance betwen CHarakters that barely talk to each other - i mean you could romance someone even if he or she just stood around in the camp all the time. Just give him/her all the stuf he/she likes and there we go. Makes a lot of sense.

DA2 was a bit better since it had some personal 1 on 1 talks and some charakter-specific-quests but still it felt a bit lazy.

 

The only time i felt like my Charakter really bonded with a companion was in Baldur's Gate 2. Since there you had to keep your Love interest in the Party all the time and they startet discussions on their own - which made them feel much less like a puppet. And even though most people say Aerie was the best i say it's Viconia. Yes, she was a bit haughty, arrogant and a bully but that's just on the outside.

 

I know, it's unlikely for DAI to be like that but still it could do better. For example: Don't just leave the companions you don't add to your party in the castle like a car in a garage. Give them Missions like training the new recruits or go on a scoutmissions/ a patrol  or meet a political delegation  and after your Party returns from their own mission you can talk to him/her about the outcome or even go on a search and rescue mission if they didn't return.

Just add things that make your caompanions seem important and make your Inquisitor bond with them.

 

I certainly agree with that. It's a limitation of the party system Bioware uses that DA2 did go some way to address although I would like to see it go a bit further.

 

Yeah, Garrus and Tali aren't examples of playersexuality.  They are great examples of fanservice, though.

 

There really wasn't any playersexuality in the ME series.  All of the bisexual characters were clearly bisexual and not just playersexual.  The only one who might count as playersexuality would be Allers, but I've never romanced her so I'm completely sure of that.

 

It depends on how you define playersexual though. You could argue that all LIs are playersexual first and then straight/gay/bi (usually straight) only if the player isn't interested and they go after someone else. There are very few LIs that give hints of ever being interested in anyone before the player and most don't even after you reject them. We all assume that Liara and all Asari are inherently bisexual, but I don't think it's ever explicitly stated that they are or that they don't have a gender preference just because they can reproduce with both genders. Isabela on the other hand very definitely has been with people of both genders.

 

I think that ultimately we should let LIs be available to PCs of both genders and avoid trying to label them as straight or gay or bi and just let them be whatever they seem to be to us on a given play through. I don't see the need to set their sexuality in stone.

 

[Allan Schumacher]

The Tali/Garrus thing was the most pathetic romance-related thing I've ever saw, it's so utterly out of nowhere between two characters you barely see interacting...but they're togheter cause they're both fan favorite (see ? "cheapening" NPCs is totally irrevelant to so called "playersexuality). That said, it was just an another step on the "bending the characters to appease the fanbase" nonsense Tali and Garrus suffered since ME2.
 
I'm all for romance between companions, if it makes sense; it made for Joker/EDI because they intereact all the time (and Joker was already shipsexual even before ME2), and it would make sense for say Varric and Cassandra, but if they suddently pull

Is it not possible that Tali and Garrus could interact when Shepard isn't around to see it?

You seem to be hoping for a game world of "If I don't see it happen, it didn't happen" which could also be construed as a cheapening of the NPCs.

(On the record as loving the whole encounter with Tali and Garrus, for what it's worth)

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

I know, it's unlikely for DAI to be like that but still it could do better. For example: Don't just leave the companions you don't add to your party in the castle like a car in a garage. Give them Missions like training the new recruits or go on a scoutmissions/ a patrol  or meet a political delegation  and after your Party returns from their own mission you can talk to him/her about the outcome or even go on a search and rescue mission if they didn't return.

Just add things that make your caompanions seem important and make your Inquisitor bond with them.

 

Japanese RPGs handle this a lot better, because every one of your party members are there permanently.  So you have scenarios where characters that talk to each other without having the player character in the vicinity.

[Sylvius the Mad]

You seem to be hoping for a game world of "If I don't see it happen, it didn't happen"

Thank you for raising this point.  I've long been a fan of the idea that stuff can happen off-camera and we don't get to see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen or isn't important.

 

Eating and sleeping are the obvious examples, but I don't see why characters can't have conversations off-screen.  If something happens in the game that appears to have no basis, that doesn't mean that it actually has no basis - it just means that we haven't seen that basis.

[JCFR]

Japanese RPGs handle this a lot better, because every one of your party members are there permanently.  So you have scenarios where characters that talk to each other without having the player character in the vicinity.

yeeeessss and NOOOO

 

Japanese RPGs have a simple Problem these days: They're so CLICHEE.

Seriously not only the Charakters but also story and dialog are far beyond the border of vicarious embarrassment... at least i felt so when playing the last Final Fantasy or Xenoblade.  This whole "we are so good and you are so bad" thing (strict seperation of good and bad) went straight on my nerves. Everyone acted predictable as hell and lacked so much substance.

And yes, i know western RPGs have their Cliches as well but - in my opinion - they're packed in much better dialogs (Mass Eeffect, Dragon Age, the Witcher).

But i have to give credit to the japenes Rpgs for their eagerness to experiment.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

yeeeessss and NOOOO

 

Japanese RPGs have a simple Problem these days: They're so CLICHEE.

Seriously not only the Charakters but also story and dialog are far beyond the border of vicarious embarrassment... at least i felt so when playing the last Final Fantasy or Xenoblade.  This whole "we are so good and you are so bad" thing (strict seperation of good and bad) went straight on my nerves. Everyone acted predictable as hell and lacked so much substance.

And yes, i know western RPGs have their Cliches as well but - in my opinion - they're packed in much better dialogs (Mass Eeffect, Dragon Age, the Witcher).

But i have to give credit to the japenes Rpgs for their eagerness to experiment.

 

Funny you mentioned Xenoblade.  I'm fine sitting through emarrassing dialogue like in Xenoblade if it means better diversity and creativity in the worlds, unlike many WRPGs who still have their lips firmly planted on the buttocks of the rotting corpse of JRR Tolkien.

[Hazegurl]

Is it not possible that Tali and Garrus could interact when Shepard isn't around to see it?

You seem to be hoping for a game world of "If I don't see it happen, it didn't happen" which could also be construed as a cheapening of the NPCs.

(On the record as loving the whole encounter with Tali and Garrus, for what it's worth)

I always assume Tali and Garrus were talking during downtime and decided to hook up. Tali's favorite movie is about a romance between a Turian and Quarian so I can see her getting her "Fleet and Flotilla" on before the end.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's all about immersion.

 

Immersion is, in my opinion, a pretty meaningless word that is overused.  In general people seem to apply it to "I don't like this."  In that, when something "ruins their immersion" it's simply a matter of "they don't like it."  I actually don't know what you're referring to when you say that "it's all about immersion."

 

 

Given that Tali and Garrus' romance was building throughout the game, finding them actually together by the end doesn't strike me as "immersion breaking" unless we're using different definitions of what "immersion" means (and most people do use different definitions).

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I agree, I'd love to see this. But..... what annoyed me in DA2 was the fact that almost all of your companions would start something with the opposite gender only and not of the same. That made me cringe tbh, with the straight being the default and all.

 

 

 

I'd like to see for once someone of the companions starting a relationship with a person of the same gender.

I agree, it would be nice if they added some same-sex companion couples. Sometimes it does sort of feel like they're trying to create a world where gay/bi players can pick the romances they want, but LGBT issues are mostly hidden from those that don't want to see it. While I'm usually for as much balance as possible, that's pushing the line into offensive. 

[Darth Krytie]

I agree, it would be nice if they added some same-sex companion couples. Sometimes it does sort of feel like they're trying to create a world where gay/bi players can pick the romances they want, but LGBT issues are mostly hidden from those that don't want to see it. While I'm usually for as much balance as possible, that's pushing the line into offensive. 

 

I imagine the uproar if someone accidentally has gay in their party when they don't want it. I don't care, but wow...if you think the Anders flirt reaction was bad, just wait if Iron Bull and Baldy Mage start a bit of somethin' somethin' on the side.

 

I'm all for it, obviously, because I don't give a crap what bigots think.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

ME3 dropped enough hints here and there that it was hardly surprising that they ended up having a thing for each other. Their banter over the intercom was flirty enough, and if you bring Garrus to the geth dreadnought, they're pretty transparent (I bring Garrus everywhere, so the first thing I heard was him offering tali dextro chocolates). We don't have to actually see them sitting together all the time on the ship to get the idea. Plus, we already saw turians and quarians mingling before these two, so it's not as if they're an anomaly.

The best is when you have Dr. Michel on board because she has feelings for Garrus too. In fact, she gives him turian chocolates to which results in humorous dialogue whether you romance Garrus or not.

[Divine Justinia V]

This is still going on? Wow. Almost 2000 posts.

[Lambdadelta]

I agree, it would be nice if they added some same-sex companion couples. Sometimes it does sort of feel like they're trying to create a world where gay/bi players can pick the romances they want, but LGBT issues are mostly hidden from those that don't want to see it. While I'm usually for as much balance as possible, that's pushing the line into offensive. 

 

Not to mention that the few same-sex couples in the franchise always end tragically, with either a betrayal of some kind (Leliana and Marjolaine, Hespith and Branka), with one or both of them dying (Ashaad and Saemus, again, Hespith and Branka, and I heard there was such a case in The Calling novel) and I can't see a very bright future for Celene and Briala either. And the one time they don't, it's Wade and Herren, but who aren't at all actually explicitly a couple- in fact, it was so vague you actually need the creators to confirm it. And same with Saemus and Ashaad.

 

I mean, it's better than nothing, to be sure, and I'm super attached to both the relationships between Hespith and Branka and Leliana and Marjolaine, at I was very happy at their presence during my first Origins run. But neither less, I would really like to have just one explicitly romantic relationship between two characters of the same sex, be it between two companions, NPCs, or a companion and an NPC, that, for once, ends with both of them still alive and in love with each other and with some kind of hope for the future.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Not to mention that the few same-sex couples in the franchise always end tragically, with either a betrayal of some kind (Leliana and Marjolaine, Hespith and Branka), with one or both of them dying (Ashaad and Saemus, again, Hespith and Branka, and I heard there was such a case in The Calling novel) and I can't see a very bright future for Celene and Briala either. And the one time they don't, it's Wade and Herren, but who aren't at all actually explicitly LGBT or a couple- in fact, it was so vague you actually need the creators to confirm it. And same wih Saemus and Ashaad.

 

I mean, it's better than nothing, to be sure, and I'm super attached to both the relationships between Hespith and Branka and Leliana and Marjolaine, at I was very happy at their presense during my first Origins run. But neither less, I would really like to have just one explicitly romantic relationship between two characters of the same sex, be it between two companions, NPCs, or a companion and an NPC, that, for once, ends with both of them still alive and in love with each other and with some kind of hope for the future.

I actually had no idea Ashaad and Saemus were a romantic couple. I thought at one point Saemus even said Ashaad was his "friend". Did I remember that wrong? Still, that's actually really a shock to me. I never saw them that way in context, at all. 

 

But that supports your point, the same-sex relationships aren't handled with anywhere near the clarity, on average, as the opposite-sex relationships. I'd definitely like to see a more clear cut representation with major characters. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Technically speaking, I do know a few couples that also refer to themselves as friend (typically best friends), so it's possible we read a bit too much into the comment when a single person uses it, even if it's commonly used to indicate the absence of any sort of romantic relationship.