1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Technically speaking, I do know a few couples that also refer to themselves as friend (typically best friends), so it's possible we read a bit too much into the comment when a single person uses it, even if it's commonly used to indicate the absence of any sort of romantic relationship.

No offense, but that's a disappointing response, to me. Maybe I would feel differently if we ever heard a heterosexual couple in game say this, as well as show a complete lack of physical affection or verbal romantic/sexual implication. 

 

I'd also say, honestly, I've literally never known anyone in a relationship that referred to their partner as their "friend" unless they literally were hiding the relationship in public. I'm not saying this is an impossibility, but I definitely can't say it's something I've commonly experienced, either in real life or in the general media. I can't imagine how it could be construed as not being purposely misleading if you didn't already know they were in a relationship. Maybe in the context of, "s/he's also my best friend", but it's generally to expressed the duality of the relationship. 

[Allan Schumacher]

No offense taken.  To be honest I'm not actually precisely sure which characters that you're speaking of, and cannot confirm nor deny whether or not the term used was friend.

 

My point was more looking at the term friend, and how it was used (if it was used).

[Darth Krytie]

No offense, but that's a disappointing response, to me. Maybe I would feel differently if we ever heard a heterosexual couple in game say this, as well as show a complete lack of physical affection or verbal romantic/sexual implication. 

 

I'd also say, honestly, I've literally never known anyone in a relationship that referred to their partner as their "friend" unless they literally were hiding the relationship in public. I'm not saying this is an impossibility, but I definitely can't say it's something I've commonly experienced, either in real life or in the general media. I can't imagine how it could be construed as not being purposely misleading if you didn't already know they were in a relationship. Maybe in the context of, "s/he's also my best friend", but it's generally to expressed the duality of the relationship. 

 

I've known people to use 'friend' 'best friend' 'roommate' to indicated romantic partners. A lot of times people use terms that are coded because of safety reasons. If something's not widely accepted, they use certain accepted euphemisms that a person who knows will get and people who wish to remain ignorant will miss. It depends.

 

A friend of mine is getting married to her 'roommate' this year. Sometimes it's not about being misleading, but about avoiding hostility.

 

Though, I could not say that I think Ashaad and Saemus were a couple. That Winters lady certainly insinuated that Saemus had been involved, but it could also be that she was just being crude for the sake of it.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

No offense taken.  To be honest I'm not actually precisely sure which characters that you're speaking of, and cannot confirm nor deny whether or not the term used was friend.

 

My point was more looking at the term friend, and how it was used (if it was used).

Seamus is the Viscounts son in DA2 that wanted to join the Qunari, but was later killed by Petrice. He runs away to join the Qunari, specifically with a Kossith-- Ashaad, and there's a quest to retrieve him. You find that another group of mercenaries have gotten there first and killed Ashaad. I believe basically all Seamus says about him is something like, "he was my friend". I'm not really certain about this as fact, though. I could have remember the encounter totally wrong. Ashaad wasn't a large part of the plot device that Seamus and Petrice contributed to as a whole, so it's not something I focused on much. Until now, I'd never even heard anyone say they were a romantic couple.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I've known people to use 'friend' 'best friend' 'roommate' to indicated romantic partners. A lot of times people use terms that are coded because of safety reasons. If something's not widely accepted, they use certain accepted euphemisms that a person who knows will get and people who wish to remain ignorant will miss. It depends.

 

A friend of mine is getting married to her 'roommate' this year. Sometimes it's not about being misleading, but about avoiding hostility.

 

Though, I could not say that I think Ashaad and Saemus were a couple. That Winters lady certainly insinuated that Saemus had been involved, but it could also be that she was just being crude for the sake of it.

I think what we're talking about is a pretty grey line. They may have a good reason for not being upfront, but the issue is basically the same. They're obfuscating the situation intentionally. There isn't really any reason for that to happen in Dragon Age.

[Darth Krytie]

I think what we're talking about is a pretty grey line. They may have a good reason for not being upfront, but the issue is basically the same. They're obfuscating the situation intentionally. There isn't really any reason for that to happen in Dragon Age.

 

It's been pointed out that gay relationships are considered odd and quirky in DA. Not against any rules, but not really hella commonplace either. Just playing Devil's Advocate here...If he's the Viscount's son, he does have reason to be circumspect in that situation. He knows he's pushing it by being involved with the Qunari at all. And I'm not sure what the Qun says about same-romantic pairings at all. I don't even recall a time where we even knew how the whole process went or how it was referred to within their culture. So, we don't know enough to say that it could be upfront...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's been pointed out that gay relationships are considered odd and quirky in DA. Not against any rules, but not really hella commonplace either. Just playing Devil's Advocate here...If he's the Viscount's son, he does have reason to be circumspect in that situation. He knows he's pushing it by being involved with the Qunari at all. And I'm not sure what the Qun says about same-romantic pairings at all. I don't even recall a time where we even knew how the whole process went or how it was referred to within their culture. So, we don't know enough to say that it could be upfront...

The Qun doesn't really care since people of the Qun only have sex for the purpose of procreation. Other that that, people can love who they want as long as it doesn't interfere with the will of the Qun. 

 

That's how I took it anyway.

[Lambdadelta]

I actually had no idea Ashaad and Saemus were a romantic couple. I thought at one point Saemus even said Ashaad was his "friend". Did I remember that wrong? Still, that's actually really a shock to me. I never saw them that way in context, at all. 

 

But that supports your point, the same-sex relationships aren't handled with anywhere near the clarity, on average, as the opposite-sex relationships. I'd definitely like to see a more clear cut representation with major characters. 

 

I didn't know it either until I went online and read about it. I was surprised too. In hindsight, Saemus using of the word "friend" might be simply because he was not entirely comfortable about revealing that they were a couple, especially to his father, regardless of how rebellious he is. Although he does say, if you question him, that 'friend' is not exactly the right word for relationship, but he's a bit vague about it. Anyway, it would still have been preferable if they depicted their relationship in a way that didn't require creator confrimation.

 

That also reminds me, by the way- Leliana does describe Marjolaine as her "mentor and friend", but while you can explain her saying that she loved her as referring to a platonic/friendship or student-to-mentor love, everything about their interaction in Leliana's Song is very romantic, or at the very least, heavily flirtatious.

[oceanicsurvivor]

The Qun doesn't really care since people of the Qun only have sex for the purpose of procreation. Other that that, people can love who they want. 

 

Does that mean romantic love or platonic love? I thought that the Qun was platonic and devoid of family units. You care for the people you serve with etc.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Does that mean romantic love or platonic love? I thought that the Qun was platonic and devoid of family units. You care for the people you serve with etc.

Here's the Wiki on the subject:

 

Qunari have no "family units": they do not marry, choose partners, or even know to whom they are related. A father's role ends at conception. A mother's ends at birth. A Qunari's "family" consists of his or her peers, called brothers and sisters.

 

Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: it is sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included.

 

So basically Saemus and Ashaad could still love each other, but not call themselves a couple. Perhaps that is why Saemus said friend. 

[Ryzaki]

I thought there was a comment about Sten pretty much calling the Warden his heart or something. Something on the lines of you'd see a Sten romance if you squint? It's been a while since I remember that convo though XD

[Darth Krytie]

Here's the Wiki on the subject:

 

Qunari have no "family units": they do not marry, choose partners, or even know to whom they are related. A father's role ends at conception. A mother's ends at birth. A Qunari's "family" consists of his or her peers, called brothers and sisters.

 

Qunari generally do not associate mating with love. They feel love. They have friends. They form emotional bonds with one another. However, they simply do not sleep with each other to express it. If they do, then they are sent to be reeducated by the Ben-Hassrath. If a child is produced, the same thing happens as with all other Qunari children: it is sent to be raised by the Tamassrans, evaluated, and assigned a job. Qunari do not waste resources unnecessarily, people included.

 

So basically Saemus and Ashaad could still love each other, but not call themselves a couple. Perhaps that is why Saemus said friend. 

 

Romantic, but not sexual. Those relationships do exist in the world.

 

I vaguely remembered Sten saying some of that, but not all. I was pretty sure, though, that he never discussed homosexuality one way or another.

[Divine Justinia V]

Seamus is the Viscounts son in DA2 that wanted to join the Qunari, but was later killed by Petrice. He runs away to join the Qunari, specifically with a Kossith-- Ashaad, and there's a quest to retrieve him. You find that another group of mercenaries have gotten there first and killed Ashaad. I believe basically all Seamus says about him is something like, "he was my friend". I'm not really certain about this as fact, though. I could have remember the encounter totally wrong. Ashaad wasn't a large part of the plot device that Seamus and Petrice contributed to as a whole, so it's not something I focused on much. Until now, I'd never even heard anyone say they were a romantic couple.

 

I really think yall are looking way too deep into this trying to find something that's not there.

 

It could be left to interpretation, but if it's in your canon that doesn't mean it's in everyone else's.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I really don't think they were romantic lol.

I don't either, but it is an interesting prospect to discuss. 

[Divine Justinia V]

I don't either, but it is an interesting prospect to discuss. 

 

Yeah, that's why I changed my thing.

 

But I don't understand what it has to do with playersexual romances?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Romantic, but not sexual. Those relationships do exist in the world.

 

I vaguely remembered Sten saying some of that, but not all. I was pretty sure, though, that he never discussed homosexuality one way or another.

Heck, that existed in DA2 with the Sebastian romance. A chaste marriage. 

 

Yeah, Sten discusses some of that I think. Probably during his "I don't understand. You look like a woman." conversation.

[Darth Krytie]

I really think yall are looking way too deep into this trying to find something that's not there.

 

It could be left to interpretation, but if it's in your canon that doesn't mean it's in everyone else's.

 

Yanno, I was told the same thing about Grindewald and Dumbledore.

[Divine Justinia V]

Yanno, I was told the same thing about Grindewald and Dumbledore.

 

I still don't get what this has to do with the topic, could you explain it to me please?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, that's why I changed my thing.

 

But I don't understand what it has to do with playersexual romances?

Oops, sorry about that. 

 

Yeah, this should be its own thread. Homosexuality and the Qun.

[Divine Justinia V]

Oops, sorry about that. 

 

Yeah, this should be its own thread. Homosexuality and the Qun.

 

What do you think about playersexuality? I'd look for your specific posts, but, ya know, we're on page 86

 

Do think that's what DA has been?

[Lambdadelta]

And we should probably start a separate thread to discuss the treatment/representation of LGBT people in Dragon Age outside the romances in general. I brought up Saemus and Ashaad as an example of how they could really do better on that front because there was a discussion going on about the companion/NPC romances and how all of them were straight. Which is, yes, mostly irrelevant to the topic. 

[Darth Krytie]

I still don't get what this has to do with the topic, could you explain it to me please?

 

It has more to do with the comment than the topic. But, it was referring to the whole 'reading too much into it comment'.  Back when that book came out, I observed things, was told I was reading too much into it...then JKR is all Dumbles is gay.

 

How to get back on topic?

 

I just hope that it remains that the sexuality of the companions are either confirmed bisexuals or vague. I don't want someone actually identifying differently based on what box you tick in the CC.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

It's been pointed out that gay relationships are considered odd and quirky in DA. Not against any rules, but not really hella commonplace either. Just playing Devil's Advocate here...If he's the Viscount's son, he does have reason to be circumspect in that situation. He knows he's pushing it by being involved with the Qunari at all. And I'm not sure what the Qun says about same-romantic pairings at all. I don't even recall a time where we even knew how the whole process went or how it was referred to within their culture. So, we don't know enough to say that it could be upfront...

It would make sense, except in every other context Saemus makes it pretty clear that he could not care less about his position and how he's expected to act in it, that I can see. If he's willing to admit that he wants to join the Qun, I can't imagine he'd be compelled to hide his sexuality. Joining the Qun as the Viscounts son is a hundred times more ballsy and less likely to be accepted than being in a romantic relationship with a male. 

 

But, I admit, I'm just taking it for granted that they were confirmed a couple based on the previous poster. If that's not the case, none of this really matters. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What do you think about playersexuality? I'd look for your specific posts, but, ya know, we're on page 86

 

Do think that's what DA has been?

Overall, I approve of it. I get the complaints, but I disagree with every one of them on the simple premise that the game is alternate universe depending on the player.

 

For example, I side with Bhelen. Others may side with Harrowmont. Does that mean both rule Orzammar? No. In my universe, Bhelen rules it. In their universe, Harrowmont rules it. Both are right without both having to be true.

 

Same with character sexuality. I view Merrill as straight. Others view her as lesbian. Does that mean she is both? No. In my universe, she is straight. In their universe, she is lesbian. Both are right without both having to be true.

 

Same exact principle. 

[Divine Justinia V]

Overall, I approve of it. I get the complaints, but I disagree with every one of them on the simple premise that the game is alternate universe depending on the player.

 

For example, I side with Bhelen. Others may side with Harrowmont. Does that mean both rule Orzammar? No. In mine, Bhelen rules it. In other, Harrowmont rules it. Both are right.

 

Same with character sexuality. In my game, I view Merrill as straight. Others view her as lesbian. Does that mean she is both? No. In my universe, she is straight. In theirs, she is lesbian. Both are right.

 

Same exact principle. 

 

I agree, I like the way you explained it, too. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

That's the thing with these games, it's all really down to interpretation on your game, your choices. I don't think a lot of people respect that, though.