1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Thane will call you Siha without you pursuing him, but doesn't say anything else unless you choose to flirt with him. And Miranda does not flirt with Shepard first. Not sure where you got that from.

 

Hit anything but the middle option when you're talking with her after her loyalty quest and you get the hand on chest moment. And no it's not obvious that picking to dare comfort her is romantic. (especially not given how Paragon Shep is pretty much warrior therapist on the ship). Took me a good 2 playthroughs to realize the only friendship choice was "that's a tough feeling to deal with. I hope you'll feel better after the mission" (pretty much a abort option for the conversation). Though at least you get that and not the two noes nonsense in Jack's route.

[Zarathiel]

can't really comment on the FemShep romances (aside from what I hear she sounds like she's hitting on Jacob regardless of the conversation) But my experience has been all three of the male Shepard romances come on to him once their loyalty missions are done.

 

maybe it was a problem with the paraphrasing.  But like I said, ninjamancing has always been a problem.

 

If you think Miranda flirts with Shepard first, your definition of flirting is way too broad. She talks about how she admires and respects Shepard for what they've done, and then you have two dialogue choices that lead to flirting with and then kissing her, and the middle option which keeps things platonic. I should know, I've played the game like 20 times.

 

And ninjamancing isn't a problem so long as they include and option to politely decline, which was not lacking in ME2.

[Ryzaki]

If you think Miranda flirts with Shepard first, your definition of flirting is way too broad. She talks about how she admires and respects Shepard for what they've done, and then you have two dialogue choices that lead to flirting with and then kissing her, and the middle option which keeps things platonic. I should know, I've played the game like 20 times.

 

And ninjamancing isn't a problem so long as they include and option to politely decline, which was not lacking in ME2.

 

Problem with that is the upper and lower choices leading to flirting is not clear until you actually pick said choices. Which is my main issue with them.

 

Paragon choice is "You're hard to compliment" Shep says: "I can't admire your body or your mind?"

 

Renegade choice is "You're jealous!" and Shep says something about it must sting the genetic mutt Cerberus put in charge.

 

It's a failing of the paraphrase system. (Do note the last thing she says is "Everyone of your accomplishment is due to your skill the only thing I can take credit for is my mistakes." And...apparently you can't challenge this unless you want to romance her for some...baffling reason.)

 

It is an issue in the DA series where you lose approval for rejecting someone you didn't mean to romance in the first place however. (Not to mention getting ninja'd by Jack then rejecting her lead to the F*** off for the rest of the game).

[Zarathiel]

Hit anything but the middle option when you're talking with her after her loyalty quest and you get the hand on chest moment. And no it's not obvious that picking to dare comfort her is romantic. (especially not given how Paragon Shep is pretty much warrior therapist on the ship). Took me a good 2 playthroughs to realize the only friendship choice was "that's a tough feeling to deal with. I hope you'll feel better after the mission" (pretty much a abort option for the conversation). Though at least you get that and not the two noes nonsense in Jack's route.

 

Looking at the paraphrases, you get the hand on chest moment if you say, "It's nice to see you smile." as opposed to "Glad I could help." Both sound friendly, but one is slightly flirty. The delivered dialogue for that option is something like, "Glad to see there's a person under there." So in this instance, it's a bit grey who's flirting with who first, but the fact remains you have to express interest in Miranda before she expresses interest in you, unlike Tali and Jack.

 

For her actual romance start dialogue, the paraphrases are somewhat unclear unless you use context combined with the meta-knowledge that she is a romance option, but the spoken dialogue makes it VERY clear that Shepard is initiating the flirting.

 

All of this may be moot anyway, unless the devs decided not to bring flirt icons back.

[razmatazz]

Here's something that has been stewing in my mind for a while now.  In a setting supposedly as tolerant as Thedas (apparently more so than in our world), why wouldn't its people's overall attitude toward their own sexuality have evolved to become more open?  This is especially the case for mages like Anders, who "are not bound to traditional social mores and consequently enjoy greater sexual freedom than most."

 

Even ignoring the above, I just don't like the reasoning that something could be true just because there's nothing to prove otherwise.  I'd rather be able to accept that something is true (or false) based on existing evidence, and put that thought to rest.  Even some small indication would be nice.  For instance, at the beginning of a romance-related cutscene, while Anders is waiting for femHawke, he could be shown briefly casting an intrigued gaze at some male passerby before femHawke engages him in convo over whatever's on their minds.

 

Beyond that, I agree with those who have mentioned it would be cool if LI's rejected you, or even dumped and/or left you later, based on choices you make during the game as well as your gender.  As it stands though, the best I could do was avoid the romances altogether, which worked fine enough for me in my last DA2 playthrough.  I just kinda wish I didn't have to : / .

[Stelae]

Here's something that has been stewing in my mind for a while now.  In a setting supposedly as tolerant as Thedas (apparently more so than in our world), why wouldn't its people's overall attitude toward their own sexuality have evolved to become more open?  This is especially the case for mages like Anders, who "are not bound to traditional social mores and consequently enjoy greater sexual freedom than most."

 

A thing can be private without being shameful. 

 

It's considered bad form to ask someone how much they make in some societies, for example, mine included.  Not because having money or the lack of it is a moral virtue or failing, but simply because some things are private, and not openly discussed among casual acquaintances. 

 

There used to be a taboo on illness; getting an illness was seen as either punishment from God, or an indicator that your lifestyle was full of weakening vices.  So people were very circumspect about their health.  Now, even though we know that being ill is not a moral failing, we don't blurt out our health status to anyone who asks, even though the standard greeting is "How are you?". 

[Ryzaki]

Looking at the paraphrases, you get the hand on chest moment if you say, "It's nice to see you smile." as opposed to "Glad I could help." Both sound friendly, but one is slightly flirty. The delivered dialogue for that option is something like, "Glad to see there's a person under there." So in this instance, it's a bit grey who's flirting with who first, but the fact remains you have to express interest in Miranda before she expresses interest in you, unlike Tali and Jack.

 

For her actual romance start dialogue, the paraphrases are somewhat unclear unless you use context combined with the meta-knowledge that she is a romance option, but the spoken dialogue makes it VERY clear that Shepard is initiating the flirting.

 

All of this may be moot anyway, unless the devs decided not to bring flirt icons back.

 

I really don't see how it's nice to see you smile is flirty (before Shep's delivery) remember I'm talking about the paraphrases. The player clicking on the choice isn't made blatantly aware that it's a flirt option and that's a problem.

 

That's...exactly what I said. Once again the paraphrasing is the issue. The player doesn't know it's a flirt til after Shep opens his mouth and by then it's too late. That's a issue.

 

Wait there's flirt icons in DAI? If so nevermind. XD

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't really want them to have your companions leering at people just to prove their sexuality. I don't understand why they would make the companions needlessly creepy just to prove a point that's not really important to begin with. I still don't understand why people feel like it needs to be established without a shadow of a doubt for every character. 

[Zarathiel]

I really don't see how it's nice to see you smile is flirty (before Shep's delivery) remember I'm talking about the paraphrases. The player clicking on the choice isn't made blatantly aware that it's a flirt option and that's a problem.

 

That's...exactly what I said. Once again the paraphrasing is the issue. The player doesn't know it's a flirt til after Shep opens his mouth and by then it's too late. That's a issue.

 

Wait there's flirt icons in DAI? If so nevermind. XD

 

I don't know if there's flirt icons in DAI, but there were in DA2, and I see no reason for the devs to remove them, especially given all the complaining this subject receives.

 

As for Miranda, with exception of "You're jealous," I found that all of the options were clear with the meta-knowledge that she's a romance option. "It's nice to see you smile" and "You're hard to compliment" didn't necessarily sound like flirts, but they sounded like options that would or could lead to romancing her, to me. And my original point was that she doesn't throw herself at Shepard first like Tali and Jack, which is true.

 

I agree that they should be clearer, though. Not just the paraphrases for the romance content, but in general. There are some options, especially in DA2 and ME1, that still make me cringe at how far off they are.

[Ryzaki]

I don't know if there's flirt icons in DAI, but there were in DA2, and I see no reason for the devs to remove them, especially given all the complaining this subject receives.

 

As for Miranda, with exception of "You're jealous," I found that all of the options were clear with the meta-knowledge that she's a romance option. "It's nice to see you smile" and "You're hard to compliment" didn't necessarily sound like flirts, but they sounded like options that would or could lead to romancing her, to me. And my original point was that she doesn't throw herself at Shepard first like Tali and Jack, which is true.

 

I agree that they should be clearer, though. Not just the paraphrases for the romance content, but in general. There are some options, especially in DA2 and ME1, that still make me cringe at how far off they are.

 

True! Hopefully that's the case and being ninja'd should be a non issue.

 

Yeah I assumed we were having friendship routes my first playthrough (more the fool I). So I was very bewildered how it was "romance me or GTFO" Thankfully ME3 fixed that. And true she doesn't.

 

Agreed. I especially love the "You guys are idiots." to "I should kill both of you". I thought I was gonna get a facepalm and I get psycho Shep ;-;

[Darth Krytie]

I don't know if there's flirt icons in DAI, but there were in DA2, and I see no reason for the devs to remove them, especially given all the complaining this subject receives.

 

As for Miranda, with exception of "You're jealous," I found that all of the options were clear with the meta-knowledge that she's a romance option. "It's nice to see you smile" and "You're hard to compliment" didn't necessarily sound like flirts, but they sounded like options that would or could lead to romancing her, to me. And my original point was that she doesn't throw herself at Shepard first like Tali and Jack, which is true.

 

I agree that they should be clearer, though. Not just the paraphrases for the romance content, but in general. There are some options, especially in DA2 and ME1, that still make me cringe at how far off they are.

 

Added to this, there weren't a lot of options that were friendly yet not romantic. I think that is the frustrating part with many of BioWare's romances...the inability to be friendly without it triggering the romances. Some of the non-romantic triggering dialogue was so...not the tone I'd liked to use. A bit abrasive at times. Sometimes it was just easier to say what I want until I got locked in and ended up triggering the triangle convos. But I wasn't a huge fan of that either. Tbh, I have to play Origins with the dialogue approval page from the Wiki open to avoid accidentally stepping in it.

[Blackrising]

Added to this, there weren't a lot of options that were friendly yet not romantic. I think that is the frustrating part with many of BioWare's romances...the inability to be friendly without it triggering the romances. Some of the non-romantic triggering dialogue was so...not the tone I'd liked to use. A bit abrasive at times. Sometimes it was just easier to say what I want until I got locked in and ended up triggering the triangle convos. But I wasn't a huge fan of that either. Tbh, I have to play Origins with the dialogue approval page from the Wiki open to avoid accidentally stepping in it.

 

I honestly never had a problem with sending wrong signals to my companions. Neither was it difficult to be friendly without signaling romantic interest (excluding Zevran and Isabela, who did proposition my Warden/Hawke without my prompting, but that has more to do with their personality and less with the romance system). The only time I got 'ninjamanced' was with Leliana, but that was a bug that made her confront my Warden about playing games with her when he decided to marry Anora, despite being told during every conversation that he liked her, but only as a friend.

So I don't really have a problem with that kind of dialouge system.

 

But I also gotta admit that I don't particularly mind the companions getting the wrong idea. It doesn't seem terribly unrealistic (oh how I hate that word) for someone to get the wrong idea when you're being friendly and it's always quite easy to just say 'I think you're a mighty fine fella, but I just ain't into you like that'. (And most of the time, my main characters are terrible flirts and just hit on everyone anyway or I roleplay them as being naturally affectionate and completely oblivious to how their words might be perceived as flirting. )

[Nocte ad Mortem]

The Leliana situation was really weird. It made her look totally psychotic, in context. I got the ninjamance, also, and up to that point I'd seen literally nothing that implied we were a thing. Then suddenly, "HOW DARE YOU CHEAT ON ME". She seemed like a psychotic horror movie stalker. I was seriously concerned she was going to be serving me Dog for dinner one night. 

[Darth Krytie]

The Leliana situation was really weird. It made her look totally psychotic, in context. I got the ninjamance, also, and up to that point I'd seen literally nothing that implied we were a thing. Then suddenly, "HOW DARE YOU CHEAT ON ME". She seemed like a psychotic horror movie stalker. I was seriously concerned she was going to be serving me Dog for dinner one night. 

 

I just laughed really hard right now...and it reminded me of Pepper on a Pole, which dates me quite nicely. 

[Blackrising]

The Leliana situation was really weird. It made her look totally psychotic, in context. I got the ninjamance, also, and up to that point I'd seen literally nothing that implied we were a thing. Then suddenly, "HOW DARE YOU CHEAT ON ME". She seemed like a psychotic horror movie stalker. I was seriously concerned she was going to be serving me Dog for dinner one night. 

 

Hah, true.

I remember going to talk to her and she suddenly started talking about her and me and how I felt about her (without me ever signaling any romantic feelings). I thought 'well alright then' and told her that, no, my Warden wasn't interested in her like that.

Next time I'm in camp and go talk to her, she gives me the exact. same. conversation.
I never quite got the picture of Leliana following my Warden around, screaming "LOVE ME", out of my head after that.

And let's not forget the whole "Leeet me put your eeeeyelashesss in a yaaarrr" conversation.

[razmatazz]

So something that the (vast) majority of people do is all of a sudden...creepy?  Okay .

[Darth Krytie]

So something that the (vast) majority of people do is all of a sudden...creepy?  Okay .

To what are you referring precisely?

[razmatazz]

To what are you referring precisely?

 

Sorry.  This:

 

I don't really want them to have your companions leering at people just to prove their sexuality. I don't understand why they would make the companions needlessly creepy just to prove a point that's not really important to begin with. I still don't understand why people feel like it needs to be established without a shadow of a doubt for every character. 

[Darth Krytie]

Depends on how 'leer'-y the leer is. Some dudes are hella creepy when they sorta of look at you like you're walking pair of breasts. If it's subtle and sorta of just 'hmm' that's not bad, then probably not too creepy.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

If you're staring at someone long enough and with enough intent for me to KNOW you want a piece of that, yes, it is creepy. Otherwise it's just going to look like a meaningless glance in the direction of a moving person that tells us literally nothing. 

[Mockingword]

If you're staring at someone long enough and with enough intent for me to KNOW you want a piece of that, yes, it is creepy. Otherwise it's just going to look like a meaningless glance in the direction of a moving person that tells us literally nothing. 

What if his glance is constantly darting away to scan every dude that walks past?

[Nocte ad Mortem]

What if his glance is constantly darting away to scan every dude that walks past?

Then we need fantasy Adderall. 

[mars_central]

It can be difficult for real people to get the difference between a friendly "she looks nice" glance and a creepy "I'd Arl her Eamon" glance right. It's darn near impossible for video game characters.

[Hazegurl]

I don't really want them to have your companions leering at people just to prove their sexuality. I don't understand why they would make the companions needlessly creepy just to prove a point that's not really important to begin with. I still don't understand why people feel like it needs to be established without a shadow of a doubt for every character. 

Leering at certain genders like some creeper and broadcasting their sexuality at random are things normal people don't do but according to some on BSN, if characters behave how normal people don't behave it makes them realistic characters. BSN logic. Better not to keep questioning it.

[tmp7704]

I certainly have no problems with the idea of making the characters more varied as to whether or not they would romance you, or more specifically what it would take to make them interested.

Ultimately this is the problem "playersexual" characters give me in practice -- having the same character(s) always be into "you" reduces variety of successive playthroughs, and makes the boredom settle in quicker. DA:O's gender-based approach was simple, but still allowed it to dodge that particular bullet as it shook things up somewhat, and made DA2 fall (relatively) short in that regard.

If the player only limits themselves to single playthrough then that approach isn't really a problem, though like others mentioned having a handful of characters fall for the player without any effort on her/his part can make the marysue sense tingle. But then I have a feeling that bulk of the players actually like to be put in such spot, and don't view it as a drawback.