1875 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

I must be super up tight emotionally.    

 

I would never say "It's nice to see you smile" or "You're hard to compliment" or "Glad to see there's a person under there" unless I was flirting with them.   I think the only time I accidently got into a romance option was with Liara in ME1 because I wanted to find out more about her.  Luckily I had the option of telling her sorry you misunderstood my comments.

 

I was not a fan of the little heart icons in DA2, but I would like the option of saying that they misunderstood my comment, I like you as a friend or I dislike you immensely and would never ever go there with you.   

[mopotter]

I feel like it's exactly what an above user posted; it makes the character feel like a Mary Sue.

 

Read any bad piece of fiction with a male, or female, Mary Sue character. Almost always, a major element is that numerous other characters are romantically interested in that character, often inexplicably. I do still think making all LI- characters capable of being romanced, regardless of gender or race, is a good idea, but I think it should be done realistically, and maybe even have difficulty. Some people may not be open to the same gender, or the opposite gender, or a certain race. That's where you have to earn their affection. It harkens back to Origins, where earning affection was key. But hopefully this time around it'd be done in another way rather than just being a gift conveyor belt.

 

I just don't want to feel like every LI wants to so easily have sex with my Inquisitor. I want to feel like the character relationships matter, and not feel like I'm just going to some kind of market and "picking out" a certain LI for a guaranteed romance. The interaction means nothing if everyone is interacted with the same, and easily.

 

I didn't really like the romance in DA2 for that exact reason. When it came down to it, nothing felt too different between the romanceable characters. Maybe Isabela, but I never liked her. Most of it was just "Pick the dialogue options with hearts on them until you get the sex scene." It felt worse than Origins' gift-giving. I hope relationships, and the concept of playersexuality, are handled better than in Dragon Ages and Mass Effects past in Inquisition.

This.  So much this.  If they want to make every LI available no matter the sex, then give them some other cause to say - not interested in you.  Give me someone who trust mages because one saved their family from the darkspawn when they were a child while the templar was too busy to bother with saving someone not important,  or someone so good they won't bed you unless you are moderately kind and good yourself or so pragmatic they think you are stupid to bother with helping someone.  Or give me someone who distrust all mages because they saw their best friend turn into a monster, or killed by a raving blood mage.

 

Just something that means my character is not the - all powerful sex god that everyone wants a part of.  I'll make another character to romance them in another game.  I like replaying games, I like trying other options.  Even if I have a favorite style, always polite, always kind,  I may find something interesting in trying something new, if I have a reason to step out of my box.  

 

I wouldn't mind one or two gifts, I'd also like to receive one or two gifts, but yes,  DA:O was over the top the way it was set up.    I will always remember Alistair and Zev thanking me for the dog bones, because I used that gift giving to the max in a few games.  

[Jorji Costava]

So.... and where is Thedas tolerant? what do we have here? A strict church with fanatic followers? Check. Racism against and between other races lke elves and dwarves? Check. Arrogant aristocracy which supress es the common people?  Check.

So... where's your "tolerance" supposed to fit in there?  To me, including it like you suggested would just seem weird. A complete world full of queers and bisexual people in such circumstances would just make it loose all of it's credibility and severly damage the atmosphere. 

 

Why is it intolerant, if a companion doesen't want to romance your "gay"-Inquisitor because he's  straight? That's how mankind is. 

And talking about an "evolved" attitude in a medieval world sounds kinda ridiculous to me - sorry if someone feels offended but that's just how i feel.

 

There's no reason to assume that tolerance is an all-or-nothing affair. For example, we can assume that homophobia was not much of an issue in ancient Athens, but that hardly implies that their society was open-minded and tolerant in all other ways as well (as suggested by their treatment of slaves and the status of women in their society). So I don't think it's at all beyond the realm of possibility that a society could be open-minded about sexuality while being prejudiced about race, class or a variety of other factors.

[Allan Schumacher]

Ultimately this is the problem "playersexual" characters give me in practice -- having the same character(s) always be into "you" reduces variety of successive playthroughs, and makes the boredom settle in quicker. DA:O's gender-based approach was simple, but still allowed it to dodge that particular bullet as it shook things up somewhat, and made DA2 fall (relatively) short in that regard.

If the player only limits themselves to single playthrough then that approach isn't really a problem, though like others mentioned having a handful of characters fall for the player without any effort on her/his part can make the marysue sense tingle. But then I have a feeling that bulk of the players actually like to be put in such spot, and don't view it as a drawback.

 

How so?

 

For example, say there are only 2 characters that are interested in a male PC, and 2 characters that are interested in the female PC.  One is gay, and one is not.  Unless I decide to mix up my sexual orientation/gender, I have *zero* variety in how my (lets go with male) PC gets for romance options.

 

Now if all the romanceable characters are bisexual, my potential options and permutations open up.  Since you can only romance one character in a particular playthrough.

[Blackrising]

How so?

 

For example, say there are only 2 characters that are interested in a male PC, and 2 characters that are interested in the female PC.  One is gay, and one is not.  Unless I decide to mix up my sexual orientation/gender, I have *zero* variety in how my (lets go with male) PC gets for romance options.

 

Now if all the romanceable characters are bisexual, my potential options and permutations open up.  Since you can only romance one character in a particular playthrough.

 

And if you add other restrictions - restrictions based on choices your character makes within the story rather than what the player wants to play as -, then the problem of the PC feeling mary-sue-ish to some people is eliminated as well.

People like me (who don't want to be cut off from a romance due to gender) are happy and many other people should be too. It's a good compromise, I think.

[Mockingword]

So.... and where is Thedas tolerant? what do we have here? A strict church with fanatic followers? Check. Racism against and between other races lke elves and dwarves? Check. Arrogant aristocracy which supress es the common people?  Check.

So... where's your "tolerance" supposed to fit in there?  To me, including it like you suggested would just seem weird. A complete world full of queers and bisexual people in such circumstances would just make it loose all of it's credibility and severly damage the atmosphere. 

 

Why is it intolerant, if a companion doesen't want to romance your "gay"-Inquisitor because he's  straight? That's how mankind is. 

And talking about an "evolved" attitude in a medieval world sounds kinda ridiculous to me - sorry if someone feels offended but that's just how i feel.

From your tactless use of slurs, it's pretty clear that you wouldn't recognise tolerance if it smacked you in the face, but just because a society is intolerant in some areas doesn't mean it can't be tolerant in others. Our modern society still sees different levels of tolerance and intolerance for different groups.

 

Nobody is accusing fictional characters of being intolerant. If there are any accusations of intolerance in Dragon Age, and I haven't seen any, they would be levied at the creators, because they are the ones responsible for any intolerant messages.

 

You know what's really ridiculous? Talking about medieval attitudes in a fantasy world.

 

Yes, the Western World has a history of homophobia. But the Western World is not the only society that exists in reality, nevermind in fiction, and not all societies develop along the same trajectory. You might be incapable of conceiving of societies that develop a concept of tolerance earlier than your own did, but conceiving of societies that differ drastically from their own personal experience is pretty much the entire job of a fantasy author.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't understand the argument that allowing all genders to romance the characters gives you less content for future play throughs. You can't romance everyone in one play through. If there are 4 romances, you're going to have to play 4 games to romance everyone. Switching your gender is irrelevant. Bioware doesn't allow polyamory, so it's still one for each complete romance, regardless what gender you play. 

[Immer Rastrelly]

There is such thing as character. You know, those ones who drive an actual ROLEPLAYING EXPERIENCE. Characters around you are supposed to be individuals with their own world views, own sexuality, own story. Having all-bi cast is ridiculous AND - for me personally - unpleasant.

[Eveangaline]

There is such thing as character. You know, those ones who drive an actual ROLEPLAYING EXPERIENCE. Characters around you are supposed to be individuals with their own world views, own sexuality, own story. Having all-bi cast is ridiculous AND - for me personally - unpleasant.

How is them being bi not having their own sexuality? And how does it mean they do not have their own world views and own story?

 

Also, the 4 romanceable people being bi is not an all bi cast. It's 4 people out of many more.

[tmp7704]

How so?
 
For example, say there are only 2 characters that are interested in a male PC, and 2 characters that are interested in the female PC.  One is gay, and one is not.  Unless I decide to mix up my sexual orientation/gender, I have *zero* variety in how my (lets go with male) PC gets for romance options.
 
Now if all the romanceable characters are bisexual, my potential options and permutations open up.  Since you can only romance one character in a particular playthrough.

*If* you keep your character's gender/orientation the same in all playthroughs there'll be indeed no change in your experience in the first scenario. However, it hinges on that "if" -- if you do change, then the playthrough 1 will have _different_ character(s) show interest in you, compared to playthrough 2, etc.

In contrast, in the scenario where all the romanceable characters are bisexual, you will experience the same situation in all your playthroughs (4 characters showing interest in you) no matter whether (and how) your own character changes. While I agree the _number_ of options offered in each playthrough will be greater than in the alternative scenario, the _variety_ of these options offered by each playthrough becomes reduced, in this particular case all way down to zero.

To use DA:O as quick example, having Alistair try to hit on my character if she's a woman but not doing that if he's a man, creates two different experiences in two playthroughs of the game. Having Alistair try to hit on my character if she's a woman but *also* if he's a man, as well... only triggers a "meh Alistair, i've already seen you do that" for me, the second time it happens. Now multiply that "meh" by all the LIs, happening as early as in the 2nd game, and it becomes doubtful I'm even going to finish that second playthrough, let alone start a 3rd.

Mind you, I'm not saying the interest of LIs needs to be gender/orientation based. That's how DA:O did it, but it's just one way to go about it. If it's instead something like having all characters bisexual but paying attention to what actions and stances your character takes, and reacting accordingly, that'd be fine too as far as desired end effect i.e. variety of offered options goes.

[Blackrising]

There is such thing as character. You know, those ones who drive an actual ROLEPLAYING EXPERIENCE. Characters around you are supposed to be individuals with their own world views, own sexuality, own story. Having all-bi cast is ridiculous AND - for me personally - unpleasant.

 

Not the whole cast is bisexual. Only the four love interests. And since you said it yourself (all-BI), that means they do have their own sexuality. They are individuals with their very own personality.

 

Neither is the concept ridiculous. It's no one's problem but your own if you decide to believe that none of the LIs have a preference. Being interested in both genders does not mean that you feel attracted to both of them equally.

[Darth Krytie]

There is such thing as character. You know, those ones who drive an actual ROLEPLAYING EXPERIENCE. Characters around you are supposed to be individuals with their own world views, own sexuality, own story. Having all-bi cast is ridiculous AND - for me personally - unpleasant.

 

Bisexuality is having their own sexuality. I can get a group of ten friends of mine together and have them all be bi. I can also gather a different group of my friends and have them all be gay. So, it's not even that 'unrealistic' to have the four or so people who you can romance be bi.

[Rawgrim]

Bisexuality is having their own sexuality. I can get a group of ten friends of mine together and have them all be bi. I can also gather a different group of my friends and have them all be gay. So, it's not even that 'unrealistic' to have the four or so people who you can romance be bi.

 

 

You would hae to activly look for 10 people with thise sexuaities, though. In DA2 they just pop up and become your friends, wether you like it or not. And every single person who is romantically interested in you, just happens to be bisexual. That is quite a stretch.

[Darth Krytie]

You would hae to activly look for 10 people with thise sexuaities, though. In DA2 they just pop up and become your friends, wether you like it or not. And every single person who is romantically interested in you, just happens to be bisexual. That is quite a stretch.

 

Not really. I actually have a lot of bisexual friends as well as being attracted to all genders myself and I didn't put 'what's your sexuality' on the 'be-my-friend' sign up form.

[Rawgrim]

Still. Only 4 people interested in Hawke in 10 years, and all of them are bisexual. Quite the odds. Not a single straight or gay person was interested in him\her in that time.

 

It is just the game being simplfied. That is what it is. Same as the caves in the game, and Kirkwall never changing. The game was rushed, and the romances got hit by it too.

[Rainbow Wyvern]

There is such thing as character. You know, those ones who drive an actual ROLEPLAYING EXPERIENCE. Characters around you are supposed to be individuals with their own world views, own sexuality, own story. Having all-bi cast is ridiculous AND - for me personally - unpleasant.

Wait. This post seems to be implying that bisexuality isn't a sexuality.

Yeah... that's pretty cray-cray.

Also, they still have their own world views, sexuality, and story. Bisexuals don't lose world views and 'story' just because we're attracted to ladies n' dudes. 

 

Seriously. That is all that changes. Instead of Bob McRomanceOption being attracted to only guys, he's attracted to guys n' ladies. Or just doesn't care about the gender of the person he is in a relationship with. It's not like you're completely changing the gender of the LIs to suit your character's preference. 

[Eveangaline]

You would hae to activly look for 10 people with thise sexuaities, though. In DA2 they just pop up and become your friends, wether you like it or not. And every single person who is romantically interested in you, just happens to be bisexual. That is quite a stretch.

 

Well crap, I made my bisexual friends before I knew their sexuality. Obviously I must have been subconsciously actively looking.

 

How is it quite a stretch that 4 people who happen to think you might be interesting to date if you showed interest are bisexual? Saying 'every single person' makes it seem like it's way more people than it is. It's 4. 4 people out of the 9 companions and likely dozens of supporting characters happen to be bi. That's not really a stretch at all.

[Rawgrim]

Not really. I actually have a lot of bisexual friends as well as being attracted to all genders myself and I didn't put 'what's your sexuality' on the 'be-my-friend' sign up form.

 

It is playersexual, though. Wich would be you being able to switch people`s sexuality around before you even met them. I am pretty sure your friends had whatevr sexuality they have, even befre meeting you. You being born female didn`t alter that.

[Darth Krytie]

It is playersexual, though. Wich would be you being able to switch people`s sexuality around before you even met them. I am pretty sure your friends had whatevr sexuality they have, even befre meeting you. You being born female didn`t alter that.

 

If they're bisexual, their sexuality isn't being switched around...they were attracted to both before I opened up the character creator. True player sexuality would have one character saying "I only like women" if you're playing as a female and "I only like men" if you're playing as a male. We've never had that.

[Blackrising]

It is playersexual, though. Wich would be you being able to switch people`s sexuality around before you even met them. I am pretty sure your friends had whatevr sexuality they have, even befre meeting you. You being born female didn`t alter that.

 

 

And how do we know that the companion's sexuality was altered by the player's choice of gender? As far as we know, they've always been into both genders. At least I can't think of anything that would prove otherwise.

 

(And why do I get the feeling we've had this conversation before...ah yes, old times. )

[Rawgrim]

Well crap, I made my bisexual friends before I knew their sexuality. Obviously I must have been subconsciously actively looking.

 

How is it quite a stretch that 4 people who happen to think you might be interesting to date if you showed interest are bisexual? Saying 'every single person' makes it seem like it's way more people than it is. It's 4. 4 people out of the 9 companions and likely dozens of supporting characters happen to be bi. That's not really a stretch at all.

 

So you are saying that Hawke is bisexual? And that he runs into Anders and Isabela because he is looking for people who shares his\her sexuality?

 

100 percent of possible love interests, in 10 years. All happen to be bisexual. That is quite a stretch. No gay people are interesten in Hawke and no straight people are interested in Hawke.

[Eveangaline]

So you are saying that Hawke is bisexual? And that he runs into Anders and Isabela because he is looking for people who shares his\her sexuality?

 

100 percent of possible love interests, in 10 years. All happen to be bisexual. That is quite a stretch. No gay people are interesten in Hawke and no straight people are interested in Hawke.

No I was saying the exact opposite, that it's entirely ridiculous to think the only way you'll run into bisexual people is because you're looking for them. I guess sarcasm does not translate well in text.

 

So you find it a stretch that 4 bi people had interest in hawke but not that only 4 people at all tried to romance hawke in ten years? A powerful, wealthy up and comer with ties to an old noble family?

 

Yeah having some of the 4 be straight or gay would not have made that any less silly. But you can only have so many companions and they don't let you romance non companion npcs.

[Rawgrim]

And how do we know that the companion's sexuality was altered by the player's choice of gender? As far as we know, they've always been into both genders. At least I can't think of anything that would prove otherwise.

 

(And why do I get the feeling we've had this conversation before...ah yes, old times. )

 

 

Nobody knows that untill the second playthrough, of course. Provided they play a different gendered character in their next playthrough. This, in the long run, lessens the replay vallue of the game, though. You get exactly the same romances and romance options no matter what you play.

 

It comes down to the game itself being overly simplistic, and shortcuts were clearly taken across the whole package when the game was made. I do think if the game hadn`t been rushed, like it was, we would have had at least 1 more cave etc.

[Rawgrim]

No I was saying the exact opposite, that it's entirely ridiculous to think the only way you'll run into bisexual people is because you're looking for them. I guess sarcasm does not translate well in text.

 

So you find it a stretch that 4 bi people had interest in hawke but not that only 4 people at all tried to romance hawke in ten years? A powerful, wealthy up and comer with ties to an old noble family?

 

Yeah having some of the 4 be straight or gay would not have made that any less silly. But you can only have so many companions and they don't let you romance non companion npcs.

 

 

I meant "The only way you can find 10 out of 10 love interests that are bisexual, is that you look for 10 bisexuals". My point is that it is abit of a stretch that 100 percent of love interests in 10 years, are all by. And all of them just happen to show up and instantly become your friends.

[Stormy]

Perhaps it's been said.  Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse but unless it's been made an actual part of the story an NPC has no orientation except for the one presented when your particular character, with their particular orientation, comes onto the scene.  OOCly, we knew that Anders, for example, was bi-sexual and was involved with a male NPC (who I won't name in case of spoilers).  Not once, though, was that brought up the the female Hawke.  As far as she knew, he was Heterosexual.

 

As an RPGer, we become a part of the story so instead of having everything spelled out for us, we're to develop; and have the NPC's develop to a degree, over the course of the tale.  I laugh at my RL children because they seem to act as though nothing came into existence until they'd gotten a clue.  In the case of RPG's, again unless the story has already told us so, that's exactly the case.