1875 réponses à ce sujet

[Lambdadelta]

You would hae to activly look for 10 people with thise sexuaities, though. In DA2 they just pop up and become your friends, wether you like it or not. And every single person who is romantically interested in you, just happens to be bisexual. That is quite a stretch.

 

You know what else is a stretch?

 

That the main character that you happened to chose would just happen to be found and saved by Duncan right at the very moment when they were in a situation you had no way out of, and that this character would just happen to be sent by Duncan to the Korcari Wilds with three other recruits where they'd just happen to encounter Flemeth and Morrigan, and then just happen to be the one to survive the Joining and Ostagar because they just happened to be someone Flemeth managed to save, and just happen to be one of two survivors the other of which should technically be the leader as the senior and more experienced member of their organization but leaves everything to them out of pure personal preference, and just happen to not only be skilled, but so skilled as two defeat massive groups of people every time they are attacked by them despite the idea of four people defeating twenty being unrealistic at the very best, and just happen to somehow manage to finish the Blights that usually take decades or so to defeat within a year.

 

Try to tell me that isn't a stretch, that it's realistic and likely, and that it happening that way regardless doesn't have something to do with that person being the player character, the one favored by the story, and being an exception to essentially every single established rule that wouldn't be convenient for them.

 

I mean, seriously. Nearly everything that ever happens within the story of both games can be considered a stretch because its basis is essentially a bunch of coincidences working out for the story's favor. Everything that is realistically likely to happen but would not be convenient for the story doesn't. Fiction, at its very basis, and especially when it comes to video games, follows the rules of realism and what is likely or not likely so roughly and vaguely that it's really honestly pointless to obsess over it.

[Eveangaline]

I meant "The only way you can find 10 out of 10 love interests that are bisexual, is that you look for 10 bisexuals". My point is that it is abit of a stretch that 100 percent of love interests in 10 years, are all by. And all of them just happen to show up and instantly become your friends.

 

If you only have 4 love interests at all, it's not a stretch. I mean that's like saying "it's a stretch that you've only dated blondes" to someone who has only dated one person. Yeah it'd be weird to have one specific trait shared if they dated a bunch, but in a small group it's not that odd.

 

It seems like you should either be arguing for a bunch more romance options (since if you're saying it's weird there's only 4 people into you and they're bi, you should realize it's much weirder that in ten years only four people at all are into you). Or you should be arguing against romances or even companions existing at all because "all of them just happen to show up and instantly become your friends". That's what all companions do, and if you think that's weird maybe games with companions are not for you.

[Rawgrim]

You know what else is a stretch?

 

That the main character that you happened to chose would just happen to be found and saved by Duncan right at the very moment when they were in a situation you had no way out of, and that this character would just happen to be sent by Duncan to the Korcari Wilds with three other recruits where they'd just happen to encounter Flemeth and Morrigan, and then just happen to be the one to survive the Joining and Ostagar because they just happened to be someone Flemeth managed to save, and just happen to be one of two survivors the other of which should technically be the leader as the senior and more experienced member of their organization but leaves everything to them out of pure personal preference, and just happen to not only be skilled, but so skilled as two defeat massive groups of people every time they are attacked by them despite the idea of four people defeating twenty being unrealistic at the very best, and just happen to somehow manage to finish the Blights that usually take decades or so to defeat within a year.

 

Try to tell me that isn't a stretch, that it's realistic and likely, and that it happening that way regardless doesn't have something to do with that person being the player character, the one favored by the story, and being an exception to essentially every single established rule that wouldn't be convenient for them.

 

I mean, seriously. Nearly everything that ever happens within the story of both games can be considered a stretch because its basis is essentially a bunch of coincidences working out for the story's favor. Everything that is realistically likely to happen but would not be convenient for the story doesn't. Fiction, at its very basis, and especially when it comes to video games, follows the rules of realism and what is likely or not likely so roughly and vaguely that it's really honestly pointless to obsess over it.

 

 

Plot Points....Look it up. Not at all comparable to this discussion at all.

[Blackrising]

Nobody knows that untill the second playthrough, of course. Provided they play a different gendered character in their next playthrough. This, in the long run, lessens the replay vallue of the game, though. You get exactly the same romances and romance options no matter what you play.

 

It comes down to the game itself being overly simplistic, and shortcuts were clearly taken across the whole package when the game was made. I do think if the game hadn`t been rushed, like it was, we would have had at least 1 more cave etc.

 

Just because the same LI is also interested in you when you play another gender doesn't mean they change their sexuality around, though. As someone else said, if the companion in question explicitely told the player "I am only interested in women" and then said the opposite to a male player in the next playthrough, then I would agree with you that they are indeed changing their sexuality for the player. But without such a situation, it really only means that the companion probably likes both genders. They might not be attracted to both equally, but they are capable of falling in love with both men and women.

 

I do understand how it might lessen the replay value for you, however. I don't have that particular problem, as I avoid playing males as best I can. Tell me, would you be satisfied if the romances were restricted by something else then? If, for example, one of the LIs is perfectly happy to romance your mage-loving PC, but strictly refuses to date a templar-supporter in your next playthrough. That would mostly eliminate the problem of having replayability lessened.

[Rawgrim]

If you only have 4 love interests at all, it's not a stretch. I mean that's like saying "it's a stretch that you've only dated blondes" to someone who has only dated one person. Yeah it'd be weird to have one specific trait shared if they dated a bunch, but in a small group it's not that odd.

 

It seems like you should either be arguing for a bunch more romance options (since if you're saying it's weird there's only 4 people into you and they're bi, you should realize it's much weirder that in ten years only four people at all are into you). Or you should be arguing against romances or even companions existing at all because "all of them just happen to show up and instantly become your friends". That's what all companions do, and if you think that's weird maybe games with companions are not for you.

 

 

I am not saying it is wierd. Where did I say that? I am saying it is quite the stretch that 100 percent of a persons possible romance options, during 10 years, are all of the same sexuality. The odds of that are sky high.

 

Given what Hawke actually does, or who he surrunds himself with. It isn`t that far fetched that alot of people would shy away from a romance with him\her. Constantly attacked by templars and blood mages, mom killed by a serial killer etc. Only having 4 people interested in the fellow could be considered belivable.

 

No. Companions don`t just show up and become your friends. In most games that have companions, you can tell the ones you don`t like to bugger off. DA:O let you do that too. And sometimes tey even leave if you do stuff they don`t like.

 

And where did I say that was wierd? Are you making things up now?

[Lambdadelta]

Plot Points....Look it up. Not at all comparable to this discussion at all.

 

I just really cannot comprehend why "that's a stretch" only matters and is even considered a problem when it's about sexualities and romance and not about, you know, plot and writing and storytelling. Why does the existence of several bisexual people within one group- something that actually happens in real life- have to be such a big deal, when the absolutely realistically improbable manner in which much of the plot of Origins and the Warden's story plays out gets a free pass?

[Rawgrim]

Just because the same LI is also interested in you when you play another gender doesn't mean they change their sexuality around, though. As someone else said, if the companion in question explicitely told the player "I am only interested in women" and then said the opposite to a male player in the next playthrough, then I would agree with you that they are indeed changing their sexuality for the player. But without such a situation, it really only means that the companion probably likes both genders. They might not be attracted to both equally, but they are capable of falling in love with both men and women.

 

I do understand how it might lessen the replay value for you, however. I don't have that particular problem, as I avoid playing males as best I can. Tell me, would you be satisfied if the romances were restricted by something else then? If, for example, one of the LIs is perfectly happy to romance your mage-loving PC, but strictly refuses to date a templar-supporter in your next playthrough. That would mostly eliminate the problem of having replayability lessened.

 

Ohh I don`t mind bisexual characters, by any means. I just don`t want to decide NPC`s sexualities and whatever else when I create my own character. I`d like to be turned down because I am a mage. Or because the gorgeous woman I am hitting on turns out to be into women, or maybe that female dwarven warden just don`t want a human husband. Things like that. Or have me do in-game things a certain way, to maybe change their minds about me. Just getting everything handd to me on a platter makes me feel like I am playing a Mary Sue. Having Aveline being interested in someone else but Hawke, was great. Loved it

[Eveangaline]

I am not saying it is wierd. Where did I say that? I am saying it is quite the stretch that 100 percent of a persons possible romance options, during 10 years, are all of the same sexuality. The odds of that are sky high.

 

Given what Hawke actually does, or who he surrunds himself with. It isn`t that far fetched that alot of people would shy away from a romance with him\her. Constantly attacked by templars and blood mages, mom killed by a serial killer etc. Only having 4 people interested in the fellow could be considered belivable.

 

No. Companions don`t just show up and become your friends. In most games that have companions, you can tell the ones you don`t like to bugger off. DA:O let you do that too. And sometimes tey even leave if you do stuff they don`t like.

 

And where did I say that was wierd? Are you making things up now?

 

By weird I mean unusual, as in 'a stretch'.

 

But as you said, in most game that have companions, you can tell the ones you don't like to bugger off and they will leave if you do stuff they don't like. That remains the same even if they're the bisexual love interests, so I don't know why you were saying it was at all odd that they show up just the same as any other companions. They aren't going to be different from other companions in terms of being able to be pissed off or told to ****** off.

 

And frankly, hawkes weird stuff would only attract more suitors. Everyone likes the dangerous lads and ladies, as they say (And again, especially if they're extremely rich and powerful like Hawke). If you're going to complain that the 4 people who like you happen to be bi is a stretch, you really should complain that having only 4 people at all is far, far more of a stretch.

[Eveangaline]

Ohh I don`t mind bisexual characters, by any means. I just don`t want to decide NPC`s sexualities and whatever else when I create my own character. I`d like to be turned down because I am a mage. Or because the gorgeous woman I am hitting on turns out to be into women, or maybe that female dwarven warden just don`t want a human husband. Things like that. Or have me do in-game things a certain way, to maybe change their minds about me. Just getting everything handd to me on a platter makes me feel like I am playing a Mary Sue. Having Aveline being interested in someone else but Hawke, was great. Loved it

Well lucky for you, out of the 9 companions, most won't want to date you!

[Rawgrim]

I just really cannot comprehend why "that's a stretch" only matters and is even considered a problem when it's about sexualities and romance and not about, you know, plot and writing and storytelling. Why does the existence of several bisexual people within one group- something that actually happens in real life- have to be such a big deal, when the absolutely realistically improbable manner in which much of the plot of Origins and the Warden's story plays out gets a free pass?

 

The existance of several bisexual characters in one group isn`t a big deal. It is also belivable. I never said otherwise.

 

I said: When 100 percent of everyone that is interested in a person, in 10 years, all happen to have the same sexuality, it is a stretch. And it is a strtch because the odds of that are sky-high.

 

Look at the topic. It says Playersexual characters. Not "Duncan and the Warden at Ostagar". That is why that bit isn`t being discussed in this topic.

[Eveangaline]

The existance of several bisexual characters in one group isn`t a big deal. It is also belivable. I never said otherwise.

 

I said: When 100 percent of everyone that is interested in a person, in 10 years, all happen to have the same sexuality, it is a stretch. And it is a strtch because the odds of that are sky-high.

 

Look at the topic. It says Playersexual characters. Not "Duncan and the Warden at Ostagar". That is why that bit isn`t being discussed in this topic.

 

Except if you have several bisexual people in your small group of friends, and that small group of friends is apparently all you hang out with, the odds aren't sky high at all.

[Rawgrim]

By weird I mean unusual, as in 'a stretch'.

 

But as you said, in most game that have companions, you can tell the ones you don't like to bugger off and they will leave if you do stuff they don't like. That remains the same even if they're the bisexual love interests, so I don't know why you were saying it was at all odd that they show up just the same as any other companions. They aren't going to be different from other companions in terms of being able to be pissed off or told to ****** off.

 

And frankly, hawkes weird stuff would only attract more suitors. Everyone likes the dangerous lads and ladies, as they say (And again, especially if they're extremely rich and powerful like Hawke). If you're going to complain that the 4 people who like you happen to be bi is a stretch, you really should complain that having only 4 people at all is far, far more of a stretch.

 

 

I never said it was any different to tell companions to bugger off, if they are bi or whatever else.  Is there a language barrier here? In DA2 you can`t tell them to bugger off, no matter what. You are FORCED to be every companions friend. Simple as that. In any other game that has companions, you can tell them to bugger off if you want. Their sexuality has nothing to do with this point at all. I mentioned it because you aid "Every game with companions has them come up to you and become your friends". I pointed out that in other games you can also tell them to bugger off, if you want.

 

No. Wierd stuff and danger doesn`t attract more suitors. Not everyone likes dangerous men and women either.

 

And I didn`t complain about it. I just said why I thought it was a stretch. Kind of a big difference. The 4 PLAYERSEXUAL love interests in DA2 didn`t ruin toe game for me at all. The combat, lack of choices, and re-used maps did that.

[Blackrising]

The existance of several bisexual characters in one group isn`t a big deal. It is also belivable. I never said otherwise.

 

I said: When 100 percent of everyone that is interested in a person, in 10 years, all happen to have the same sexuality, it is a stretch. And it is a strtch because the odds of that are sky-high.

 

Look at the topic. It says Playersexual characters. Not "Duncan and the Warden at Ostagar". That is why that bit isn`t being discussed in this topic.

 

You know, maybe it's just a matter of different viewpoints. For you, they all have the same sexuality, which is bisexual. For me, I don't view them as only bisexual. I look at them more from a Kinsey scale standpoint. In other words, for me the companions may all have wildly (I admit this may be a bit of an exaggeration) different preferences (for example, Isabela is a 4, Anders is a 3, Fenris is a 1, Merrill is a 2), while still being capable of falling for either gender in the right circumstances. They all got their own 'flavour' for me, so simply stuffing them into a drawer labeled 'bisexual' seems pretty weird to me.

 

We probably just have different experiences. I actually live with three flatmates, all of whom fall somewhere on the Kinsey scale that is neither 0 or 6, including me. I've never just seen them as bisexual. Nor do they see themselves as just bisexual, actually.

 

Human sexuality is mad complicated, y'all.

[Rawgrim]

Except if you have several bisexual people in your small group of friends, and that small group of friends is apparently all you hang out with, the odds aren't sky high at all.

 

Several. Not 100 percent of the group.... And I didn`t hang out with all of them. I mostly used Anders, Isabela and Aveline.

 

 

100 percent of every person in 10 years that wants to be romantically involved with you, are bisexual. Those odds are sky high.

[Eveangaline]

I never said it was any different to tell companions to bugger off, if they are bi or whatever else.  Is there a language barrier here? In DA2 you can`t tell them to bugger off, no matter what. You are FORCED to be every companions friend. Simple as that. In any other game that has companions, you can tell them to bugger off if you want. Their sexuality has nothing to do with this point at all. I mentioned it because you aid "Every game with companions has them come up to you and become your friends". I pointed out that in other games you can also tell them to bugger off, if you want.

 

No. Wierd stuff and danger doesn`t attract more suitors. Not everyone likes dangerous men and women either.

 

And I didn`t complain about it. I just said why I thought it was a stretch. Kind of a big difference. The 4 PLAYERSEXUAL love interests in DA2 didn`t ruin toe game for me at all. The combat, lack of choices, and re-used maps did that.

 

If there's a language barrier, I think it's on your end. If you don't think people will think you're talking specifically about bisexual characters when you're complaining about how unusual it is that they come up and be your friends in a thread about bisexual characters on the topic of the bisexual characters, then I don't know exactly what you seem to think you're saying, but you're not getting it across well.

 

 

What problems, exactly do 4 bisexual characters cause. You keep saying that the odds are sky high or a stretch but obviously other people disagree and thinkyou are far over-exaggerating any suspension of disbelief problems this may cause.

[Rawgrim]

You know, maybe it's just a matter of different viewpoints. For you, they all have the same sexuality, which is bisexual. For me, I don't view them as only bisexual. I look at them more from a Kinsey scale standpoint. In other words, for me the companions may all have wildly (I admit this may be a bit of an exaggeration) different preferences (for example, Isabela is a 4, Anders is a 3, Fenris is a 1, Merrill is a 2), while still being capable of falling for either gender in the right circumstances. They all got their own 'flavour' for me, so simply stuffing them into a drawer labeled 'bisexual' seems pretty weird to me.

 

We probably just have different experiences. I actually live with three flatmates, all of whom fall somewhere on the Kinsey scale that is neither 0 or 6, including me. I've never just seen them as bisexual. Nor do they see themselves as just bisexual, actually.

 

Human sexuality is mad complicated, y'all.

 

Good points. Seeing it like that s perfectly valid. The game doesn`t really convey this, though. Not for me anyway. But still, cool way to look at it.

[Lambdadelta]

The existance of several bisexual characters in one group isn`t a big deal. It is also belivable. I never said otherwise.

 

I said: When 100 percent of everyone that is interested in a person, in 10 years, all happen to have the same sexuality, it is a stretch. And it is a strtch because the odds of that are sky-high.

 

Look at the topic. It says Playersexual characters. Not "Duncan and the Warden at Ostagar". That is why that bit isn`t being discussed in this topic.

 

I was not bringing up the topic of "Duncan and the Warden at Ostagar". I brought up the topic of the plot of Origins in general and the fact that it is very unrealistic, based on a bunch of contrived coincidences, and unlikely to a degree that is frankly ridiculous when you think about it, because it's a massive stretch to a far, far greater degree than four bisexual people being all potentially interested in a single person. 

[Eveangaline]

Several. Not 100 percent of the group.... And I didn`t hang out with all of them. I mostly used Anders, Isabela and Aveline.

 

 

100 percent of every person in 10 years that wants to be romantically involved with you, are bisexual. Those odds are sky high.

 

Again, those odds are not sky high if you only date people in your very small social circle and almost half your social circle is bi.

 

Lets say you lived in a town where almost everyone had freckles. And so that meant in 10 years everyone you dated had freckles. Would you go "THOSE ODDS ARE SKY HIGH" or would you accept that if you surround yourself with people of certain traits, it's not that unusual to find yourself dating people with those traits.

[WildOrchid]

I just really cannot comprehend why "that's a stretch" only matters and is even considered a problem when it's about sexualities and romance and not about, you know, plot and writing and storytelling. Why does the existence of several bisexual people within one group- something that actually happens in real life- have to be such a big deal, when the absolutely realistically improbable manner in which much of the plot of Origins and the Warden's story plays out gets a free pass?

 

It's funny, if all of them were heterosexual, nobody would make a fuss.

[Darth Krytie]

If there's a language barrier, I think it's on your end. If you don't think people will think you're talking specifically about bisexual characters when you're complaining about how unusual it is that they come up and be your friends in a thread about bisexual characters on the topic of the bisexual characters, then I don't know exactly what you seem to think you're saying, but you're not getting it across well.

 

 

What problems, exactly do 4 bisexual characters cause. You keep saying that the odds are sky high or a stretch but obviously other people disagree and thinkyou are far over-exaggerating any suspension of disbelief problems this may cause.

 

I think it's more unlikely that your friends just happen to be Captain of the Guard and just happen to be the person who instigated the Mage/Templar rebellion and just happen the person involved with the Qunari presence and just happen to be the story-teller who the Seeker wants to find. The odds of the elements coming together are astronomically odd. But it's just the sexuality part that people like to question. Makes me think it's less about people thinking it's a stretch and more about something else entirely.

[Rawgrim]

If there's a language barrier, I think it's on your end. If you don't think people will think you're talking specifically about bisexual characters when you're complaining about how unusual it is that they come up and be your friends in a thread about bisexual characters on the topic of the bisexual characters, then I don't know exactly what you seem to think you're saying, but you're not getting it across well.

 

 

What problems, exactly do 4 bisexual characters cause. You keep saying that the odds are sky high or a stretch but obviously other people disagree and thinkyou are far over-exaggerating any suspension of disbelief problems this may cause.

 

Ok I will say it a third time. Maybe three times is a charm. I will write it in big letters for you too. "I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT IT".

 

I am just pointing out why "100 PERCENT of all the people interested in a person IN THE SPAN OF TEN YEARS is abit of a stretch." I am not saying that bisexual people wanting to be friends with you and me is anything unusual or whatever. Everyone else seems to get this, by the way.

 

I NEVER said 4 bisexual characters cause any problems. READ SLOWLY. I said :"100 PERCENT of all the people interested in a person IN THE SPAN OF TEN YEARS is abit of a stretch." That is all.

 

No they don`t think I am over exagerating anything, because I have allready said it didn`t ruin the gaming experience for me at all. How can it b a problem for me if it didn`t affect my gaming experience at all?

[Blackrising]

Good points. Seeing it like that s perfectly valid. The game doesn`t really convey this, though. Not for me anyway. But still, cool way to look at it.

 

Isabela had a few instances that indicated a larger attraction to females, actually, at least to me. Mostly it's because she seems more emotionally connected or possessive of FemHawke, or that's what I get from her jealousy of Tallis when FemHawke flirts with her. (ManHawke garners a less emotional response, if I am not mistaken.)

 

I do realize that my point of view is largely coloured by my personal experiences, though.

[Rawgrim]

I was not bringing up the topic of "Duncan and the Warden at Ostagar". I brought up the topic of the plot of Origins in general and the fact that it is very unrealistic, based on a bunch of contrived coincidences, and unlikely to a degree that is frankly ridiculous when you think about it, because it's a massive stretch to a far, far greater degree than four bisexual people being all potentially interested in a single person. 

 

 

Still not related to te topic. I can do the same thing and say "People exploded in Kirkwall, so this mutes every other wierd or unusual things in the entire series". It has nothing to do with th topic.

[Eveangaline]

Ok I will say it a third time. Maybe three times is a charm. I will write it in big letters for you too. "I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT IT".

 

I am just pointing out why "100 PERCENT of all the people interested in a person IN THE SPAN OF TEN YEARS is abit of a stretch." I am not saying that bisexual people wanting to be friends with you and me is anything unusual or whatever. Everyone else seems to get this, by the way.

 

I NEVER said 4 bisexual characters cause any problems. READ SLOWLY. I said :"100 PERCENT of all the people interested in a person IN THE SPAN OF TEN YEARS is abit of a stretch." That is all.

 

No they don`t think I am over exagerating anything, because I have allready said it didn`t ruin the gaming experience for me at all. How can it b a problem for me if it didn`t affect my gaming experience at all?

 

Alright I will take your word for it that you were not complaining, you were just talking in a very complainy way and now wish to say you were not complaining.

[Rawgrim]

I think it's more unlikely that your friends just happen to be Captain of the Guard and just happen to be the person who instigated the Mage/Templar rebellion and just happen the person involved with the Qunari presence and just happen to be the story-teller who the Seeker wants to find. The odds of the elements coming together are astronomically odd. But it's just the sexuality part that people like to question. Makes me think it's less about people thinking it's a stretch and more about something else entirely.

 

Have a look at the discussions about the combat in DA2, and the lack of choices etc. Way more discussions about that than the sexuality bits.