Aller au contenu

Photo

Return of Sebastian?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
376 réponses à ce sujet

#351
TTTX

TTTX
  • Members
  • 9 900 messages

For the record, Mike Laidlaw > a magazine, no matter the publication.   ;)

 

Edit: Ninja'd!

Well I didn't know were the other person got there source from, so how would I know if it really was Mike who posted it?

 

Just saying.  :P

 

Anyway I know now my source is wrong so let's stop it now.



#352
Grieving Natashina

Grieving Natashina
  • Members
  • 14 513 messages

Well I didn't know were the other person got there source from, so how would I know if it really was Mike who posted it?

 

Just saying.  :P

 

Anyway I know now my source is wrong so let's stop it now.

When in doubt, check the twitter thread.  The writers and devs post in there fairly often.  Also, posters are happy to provide you with links.  I can understand the misconception, so no worries. ;)



#353
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages

It's not his place to decide what is done to Anders. He may thinks it's order and justice but that's what HE thinks.

I get that he's been through a rough time - twice - and he's emotional about it but that's exactly my point. He'd claim the right of rule for emotional and personal reasons. More logical and sensible reasons hadn't convinced him to return - sorry in my playthrough it hadn't but as you said, Hawke can convince him to go back to Starkhaven, though convincing him to stay seemed easier. And yes he said he'd stay and help with the mage dissension if you convince him to return. It's worth rivalry points to do so, therefore I maintain that it wasn't what he wanted. There's no shame in him knowing he doesn't want the throne.

And yet despite his intent to stay and help stabilize the situation, when it all goes sideways and chaos is in the streets; he leaves. He leaves at the apex of that mess which seem contrary to his promise to help things get better and to his desire to see Justice done. I would have thought he'd stay and fight on the Templars' side so that Anders could be made to answer for his crime. Hawke may have let him live, but any surviving pieces of their government wouldn't just let him off the hook.

Sebastian promises to raze Kirkwall... that's a pretty dire threat. Destroying a whole city because he thinks one man's act will result in the whole city being un-salvageable? Leaving nothing left for maleficarum means what if not destruction? It hardly seems just or orderly to threaten open war. There would still be innocents in the city - far more than were in the Chantry.

I think he waffles between his options because one is the choice he wants and the other the choice he feels he should make. He only finally gets up and goes back to Starkhaven when it becomes the choice he wants more, during the crisis he said he'd help quell. I don't disagree that he has had a very bad trauma dealt him or that he has no reason for feeling as he does. Good leaders don't have the luxury of acting on their passions and good leaders lead at all times. Deciding to lead to bring one man to justice... and deciding to lead but waiting until all Hades broke loose to leave... A good king cannot be so fickle.

I'd also argue that for authority figures, there is the person of duty... and the person behind the duty. Picking between them is exactly what a good king/president/cleric does. Now that he has gone back, Sebastian's duty is to Starkhaven. Returning to Kirkwall, unasked, or to sanction the city until Anders was apprehended would be selfish. He has 10 years of his cousin's bumbling to fix. That's his duty.


Well, why is it Hawke's place to decide what happens to Anders and no one else? I don't think Sebastian's opinion is worth less than Hawke's.

Then Alistair claims the right to rule for emotional/personal reasons too in DAO if the player won't execute Loghain though you hold him up as being a good king or having the potential to be.

More than anything, Sebastian is claiming his right to justice and reinforcing his beliefs about order when he claims the kingship in those moments. The kingship is just the most effective tool to secure those things. Justice and order transcend both being Prince of Starkhaven and being a Chantry Brother when his family is murdered and when Anders blows up the Chantry. The obligations of being Prince and giving up being a Chantry Brother to get there is tied to another set of reasoning to become or not become Prince, and he engaged that reasoning, so the decision isn't all based on pure emotion.

I don't have a problem with justice and order being the catalyst for his deciding to be Prince of Starkhaven because there are plenty of horrible reasons for someone to want to be king, and plenty of good reasons for Sebastian to stay away from the title altogether. Caring about justice and order before all other things sets him up to be a good king IMO.

Sebastian isn't going to bring on army on Kirkwall just to get revenge on Anders, its about not letting Kirkwall become another Tevinter Imperium, a concern expressed by everyone in the Faith quest. If that means war, its war. It'd be much worse to let another Tevinter crop up and do nothing about it. To Sebastian, order must be restored, and there wouldn't be an issue if Anders hadn't blown up the Chantry. The blood of innocents is on Anders.

I don't think Sebastian wants one identity over the other. To me, its he's more comfortable with being a Chantry Brother, its been his identity for a few years when we meet him, he's settled into it and accepted that he was never going to rule by default of not being in line to inherit. Becoming the Prince of Starkhaven means challenging his current identity, the peace he finally reached, his commitment to his faith, and giving all of that up forever if he decides to leave. On the rivalry path, he reconciles the identities as best he can, coming to the conclusion that a king can serve the Maker better than a brother, he doesn't act like he just doesn't like the idea of being Prince.

I still can't ask him to pick between identities, that's like asking someone to choose between being a husband and a father, or being a wife and mother, and their choice results in the death of one identity. I wouldn't bash them for changing their mind a few times. Sebastian makes a good leader because he puts justice and order before everything else, before both identities in the end.

EDIT: And about why he left. I think that was tied into the plot of the canceled Exalted March DLC. He could have died on the templar side, and I don't think that's what the writers wanted.


  • Senya et Snore aiment ceci

#354
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Well, why is it Hawke's place to decide what happens to Anders and no one else? I don't think Sebastian's opinion is worth less than Hawke's.

The fact is that Sebastian is demanding that Hawke do so. Hawke has every right to refuse. And since there's no legitimate authority currently in existence in the vicinity, it's no one's "place" to decide regardless; things have broken down into chaos.

 

Sebastian isn't going to bring on army on Kirkwall just to get revenge on Anders, its about not letting Kirkwall become another Tevinter Imperium, a concern expressed by everyone in the Faith quest. If that means war, it war. It'd be much worse to let another Tevinter crop up and do nothing about it. To Sebastian, order must be restored, and there wouldn't be an issue if Anders hadn't blown up the Chantry. The blood of innocents is on Anders.

That was never a realistic prospect. Not only is the idea of a single city-state with no army except that which is implacably opposed to the mages becoming an entire empire laughable, the Circle mages, even if they wanted to take over the city (they don't) could never have expanded into other cities without the Free Marches uniting against them. And even putting all that aside, the Circle didn't even do this to begin with.
  • LobselVith8 aime ceci

#355
SamaraDraven

SamaraDraven
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages


 

Well, why is it Hawke's place to decide what happens to Anders and no one else? I don't think Sebastian's opinion is worth less than Hawke's.

 

Then Alistair claims the right to rule for emotional personal reasons too in DAO if the player won't execute Loghain though you hold him up as being a good king or having the potential to be.

 

It's Hawke's place - though only precariously so - because Kirkwall's surviving leaders left it to her. She's the Champion which IS a title in Kirkwall and she's considered a citizen of Kirkwall, now - officially speaking. So it was handed to her to decide. Considering all Hawke does in Kirkwall's interest, I think her decision should have more weight over Sebastian's.
 

You're right. Alistair does make his decision rashly. The difference I see between them is that he never questioned whether or not he should be king. He had decided he didn't. He knew what he saw as his duty. He didn't spend a decade contemplating it. I see this as a step above Seb's to-and-froing on the matter. Also, Alistair taking his throne to see his fellow countryman answer for his crimes is not even remotely similar to taking his people to war with another country - or city. He took care of his duties first. He didn't stomp out at the beginning of war and leave a country he swore to aid to the Darkspawn because he didn't get his way. He did his duty and waited for the country to be secure before insisting on bringing Loghain to justice. It wasn't in Ferelden's best interests to deal with that at the time and took a year before it could be dealt with.

 

 

 

More than anything, Sebastian is claiming his right to justice and reinforcing his beliefs about order when he claims the kingship in those moments. The kingship is just the most effective tool to secure those things. Justice and order transcend both being Prince of Starkhaven and being a Chantry Brother when his family is murdered and when Anders blows up the Chantry. The obligations of being Prince and giving up being a Chantry Brother to get there is tied to another set of reasoning to become or not become Prince, and he engaged that reasoning, so the decision isn't all based on pure emotion.

 

It took one man's actions to get Seb to engage his beliefs about justice and order? Starkhaven's plight at the hands of his cousin wasn't enough?

 

Sebastian's reasoning is something he spouts throughout the game but that's not what is most on his mind when he finally decides to leave. Had justice and order been the most important to him, waiting ten years for the situation to crumble makes no sense. He's not in a position to help Kirkwall regain order and won't be for years. Him hanging out in the Chantry, as one man, accomplished nothing to stop things. Now that his aid as a king could be useful, he's not ready. He chooses Kirkwall's darkest hour to go because he didn't like that Anders was spared. He doesn't consider the big picture, that Kirkwall needs to be stabilized right that moment - instead he's hung up on this one thing and allows his anger to drive him off. That is purely emotional.

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with justice and order being the catalyst for his deciding to be Prince of Starkhaven because there are plenty of horrible reasons for someone to want to be king, and plenty of good reasons for Sebastian to stay away from the title altogether. Caring about justice and order before all other things sets him up to be a good king IMO.

 

I agree that caring about justice and order makes for a decent king but I don't see it in Sebastian. He values them academically but as I said, it wasn't enough to motivate him to return home. If he makes the decision at Hawke's urging, he still hangs around for years and when the time comes, he isn't able to aid Kirkwall much except to insist that Anders be killed and at the moment whether one man died or not wasn't going to help matters. He has no clue what Hawke may plan for Anders once the situation is settled but he does know that he considers it offense to himself that Anders wasn't knifed on the spot. Justice and order seem less like his primary motivations here than anger and revenge. I firmly believe that he would have stayed and helped had it been a different facility that was destroyed, such as the Viscount's Keep or the Gallows. I think he'd have his objections but without that personal insult, he'd have seen things more clearly, enough to put Anders on the back burner.

 

 

 

 
Sebastian isn't going to bring on army on Kirkwall just to get revenge on Anders, its about not letting Kirkwall become another Tevinter Imperium, a concern expressed by everyone in the Faith quest. If that means war, it war. It'd be much worse to let another Tevinter crop up and do nothing about it. To Sebastian, order must be restored, and there wouldn't be an issue if Anders hadn't blown up the Chantry. The blood of innocents is on Anders.

 

I don't think Sebastian wants one identity over the other. To me, its he's more comfortable with being a Chantry Brother, its been his identity for a few years when we meet him, he's settled into it and accepted that he was never going to rule by default of not being in line to inherit. Becoming the Prince of Starkhaven means challenging his current identity, the peace he finally reached, his commitment to his faith, and giving all of that up forever if he decides to leave. On the rivalry path, he reconciles the identities as best he can, coming to the conclusion that a king can serve the Maker better than a brother, he doesn't act like he just doesn't like the idea of being Prince.

I still can't ask him to pick between identities, that's like asking someone to choose between being a husband and a father, or being a wife and mother, and their choice results in the death of one identity. I wouldn't bash them for changing their mind a few times. Sebastian makes a good leader because he puts justice and order before everything else, before both identities in the end.

 

If Sebastian brings an army to Kirkwall, as he swore he'd do, the blood of innocents is on his hands. The whole city wasn't responsible for what Anders did. Kirkwall couldn't become another Tevinter unless the mages are armed and ready to usurp the current order and they're not and they're definitely not ready to fend off the Exalted March the Divine was considering. If that were truly Seb's reasoning he's being arrogant to assume it must be HIM and HIS army that saves the world from Kirkwall. As it is, the mages are just scrambling for their lives like everyone else at the end.


 

But maybe he does want to be prince. Seems a straightforward enough decision. So what's stopping him? Is he worried about earning Elthina's disapproval? A man who can't decide who he wants to be first and foremost doesn't strike me as a good leader. Every person is capable of more than one identity. A president is a father, a queen is someone's daughter. Sebastian isn't an exception to this. Whether or not he accepts the role of chantry brother or Starkhaven prince is a choice about what he chooses to do with himself. And all leaders still have to set aside their other identities when making decisions that affect a whole country. When you are in that role, you keep your personal considerations out of your administrative choices as much as you can. So Sebastian can't be a good leader if justice and order suddenly become so heel-nipping-important in response to one event. Avenging Elthina by marching to Kirkwall with an army would only cause more chaos. Getting his wish and having Hawke kill Anders is the simplest solution but it also undermines Hawke's authority and the authority of those who left the decision to her in the first place. Every time Kirkwall's leaders did something he didn't like, he could threaten to go back and grab his attack dogs.

 

Regardless of when in the game he makes the choice to return to Starkhaven, he doesn't actually do so until HE wants to. I see absolutely nothing selfless about his choice to leave Kirkwall when he does and there's nothing altruistic about promising to raze a city immediately after not getting the outcome he desired regarding one man when there are lives to be saved, abominations to kill  and fires to put out.

 

 

 

EDIT: And about why he left. I think that was tied into the plot of the canceled Exalted March DLC. He could have died on the templar side, and I don't think that's what the writers wanted.

 

Probably not, but it's easy enough to write a way for him to have survived DA2 even if he fought against Hawke. It wouldn't be the first time in DA that a character previously thought dead had somehow slipped through Grim's bony grasp. ;)


  • Dean_the_Young aime ceci

#356
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages

You're right. Alistair does make his decision rashly. The difference I see between them is that he never questioned whether or not he should be king. He had decided he didn't. He knew what he saw as his duty. He didn't spend a decade contemplating it. I see this as a step above Seb's to-and-froing on the matter. Also, Alistair taking his throne to see his fellow countryman answer for his crimes is not even remotely similar to taking his people to war with another country - or city. He took care of his duties first. He didn't stomp out at the beginning of war and leave a country he swore to aid to the Darkspawn because he didn't get his way. He did his duty and waited for the country to be secure before insisting on bringing Loghain to justice. It wasn't in Ferelden's best interests to deal with that at the time and took a year before it could be dealt with.

 
I'll answer your post in full later, but the highlighted text stood out to me: Alistair will leave at the Landsmeet if Anora is made Queen and Loghain is alive. So because the Warden won't kill Loghain, Alistair walks out before the final battle. He does the same thing Sebastian does. Does that affect your opinion of either Alistair or Sebastian?


  • Hanako Ikezawa aime ceci

#357
SamaraDraven

SamaraDraven
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages

 
I'll answer your post in full later, but the highlighted text stood out to me: Alistair will leave at the Landsmeet if Anora is made Queen and Loghain is alive. So because the Warden won't kill Loghain, Alistair walks out before the final battle. He does the same thing Sebastian does. Does that affect your opinion of either Alistair or Sebastian?

 

The Landsmeet isn't a war or a demon crisis run amok in the streets. So no. If he had run off at the beginning of DAO and fled his country, despite Darkspawn running rampant, after learning of Loghain's appointment as regent, I'd see the instances as similar. His fit of pique is had when things are more stabilized.

 

Edit: Sorry. Missed that part about the final battle. I'd forgotten that. I always have Loghain executed though. I tried once for science but backed out before he walked off so I didn't experience him doing that, though I had heard of it. Then yes, I'd see that as selfish as well though I don't recall Alistair promising to bring an army... It would make them both selfish and not as different as I had thought. :P

 

They both choose to be king for a personally motivated reason. One waited a year to see justice done and made a snap decision when it seemed that justice would be eluded. The other made a snap decision and made it a may-way-or-I-go-get-my-army ultimatum. The difference to me, is that Alistair taking the throne involved no one else but the key players and should he leave, Ferelden still has the army to defeat the Darkspawn (though I doubt Alistair was thinking of that honestly). He did what he could and being a king long before wouldn't have really helped. If the decision to make Loghain a Warden had been posed early on, that would have tested whether or not Al would leave his countrymen in the lurch because one man wasn't executed like he wished.

 

Seb could have been of more use had he been king and settled into his rule by the time Act 3 happens if he had made up his mind earlier and returned home. So yes, both men are selfish here, though I see their circumstances as being a little bit different. Alistair's choice does not involve bringing war.



#358
Hanako Ikezawa

Hanako Ikezawa
  • Members
  • 29 692 messages

 
I'll answer your post in full later, but the highlighted text stood out to me: Alistair will leave at the Landsmeet if Anora is made Queen and Loghain is alive. So because the Warden won't kill Loghain, Alistair walks out before the final battle. He does the same thing Sebastian does. Does that affect your opinion of either Alistair or Sebastian?

I do find it funny that both errant prince characters both have a fit and leave instead of helping if you don't kill somebody.


  • Grieving Natashina aime ceci

#359
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

 

-snip-

 

I agree with all of this. It doesn't mean I think Sebastian is a bad person- his struggle with his impulsive emotions, and the fact that he's aware enough of them to struggle, is actually something I respect. But he is emotional, and in the context of sparing Anders he is very much reacting out of emotion.

 

Do I actually think he'll raise an army and raze Kirkwall to the ground? Eh, not really- not so much out of a disrespect for him as much as I expect him to wishy-washy his way to a more sane anger by the time he could actually do it. Which sounds disrespectful, but it's more out of a respect for his ability to collect himself after the emotions and realize his mistakes. He might never want to go to Kirkwall again, and happily execute Hawke and Anders if it were in his power, and even try to do so, but I don't really expect him to feel the way he does immediately post-Chantry for the rest of his life until Kirkwall is razed.


  • Grieving Natashina aime ceci

#360
Hanako Ikezawa

Hanako Ikezawa
  • Members
  • 29 692 messages

I agree with all of this. It doesn't mean I think Sebastian is a bad person- his struggle with his impulsive emotions, and the fact that he's aware enough of them to struggle, is actually something I respect. But he is emotional, and in the context of sparing Anders he is very much reacting out of emotion.

 

Do I actually think he'll raise an army and raze Kirkwall to the ground? Eh, not really- not so much out of a disrespect for him as much as I expect him to wishy-washy his way to a more sane anger by the time he could actually do it. Which sounds disrespectful, but it's more out of a respect for his ability to collect himself after the emotions and realize his mistakes. He might never want to go to Kirkwall again, and happily execute Hawke and Anders if it were in his power, and even try to do so, but I don't really expect him to feel the way he does immediately post-Chantry for the rest of his life until Kirkwall is razed.

Yeah, I think the "raze Kirkwall to the ground" was just his emotions talking. By the time he gets to Starkhaven, he'll have time to cool off and realize doing that makes him no better than Anders. 



#361
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Yeah, I think the "raze Kirkwall to the ground" was just his emotions talking. By the time he gets to Starkhaven, he'll have time to cool off and realize doing that makes him no better than Anders. 

Still glad I kicked him for that though.



#362
SamaraDraven

SamaraDraven
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages

I agree with all of this. It doesn't mean I think Sebastian is a bad person- his struggle with his impulsive emotions, and the fact that he's aware enough of them to struggle, is actually something I respect. But he is emotional, and in the context of sparing Anders he is very much reacting out of emotion.

 

Do I actually think he'll raise an army and raze Kirkwall to the ground? Eh, not really- not so much out of a disrespect for him as much as I expect him to wishy-washy his way to a more sane anger by the time he could actually do it. Which sounds disrespectful, but it's more out of a respect for his ability to collect himself after the emotions and realize his mistakes. He might never want to go to Kirkwall again, and happily execute Hawke and Anders if it were in his power, and even try to do so, but I don't really expect him to feel the way he does immediately post-Chantry for the rest of his life until Kirkwall is razed.

 

Good point. He may let a cooler head prevail in time. He's not too proud, like Loghain was, to try a better angle later. I just hope his newfound purpose in returning to his people isn't affected and that he's staying there to be the king he says he wants to be. I swear, if we find out he bailed on Starkhaven to hunt Anders alone I will never have a shred of respect for him.

 

Edit:

Yeah, I think the "raze Kirkwall to the ground" was just his emotions talking. By the time he gets to Starkhaven, he'll have time to cool off and realize doing that makes him no better than Anders. 

 

I was thinking of this earlier. About how Anders essentially lit the match on the barrel of oil and scurried off (if you don't kill him). I mean, what was he expecting? Take out one Chantry and the mages are free? The Chantry and Adrastianism are bigger than one building. The mages aren't equipped to fight a war. So I really don't understand how he logically thought it would really advance his cause.



#363
Grieving Natashina

Grieving Natashina
  • Members
  • 14 513 messages

 His cause by Act 3 was to start a war between the Chantry/Templars and the mages of Thedas, which is why he blew up the Chantry.  He even talks about how it would force both sides into fighting.  Sadly enough, it didn't even really cause much more than some extra paranoia until after the events of Asunder.



#364
Aimi

Aimi
  • Members
  • 4 616 messages

I was thinking of this earlier. About how Anders essentially lit the match on the barrel of oil and scurried off (if you don't kill him). I mean, what was he expecting? Take out one Chantry and the mages are free? The Chantry and Adrastianism are bigger than one building. The mages aren't equipped to fight a war. So I really don't understand how he logically thought it would really advance his cause.


Spoiler


Alternatively:

Spoiler

  • Dean_the_Young et Master Warder Z_ aiment ceci

#365
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

Anders cause by Act 3 is revolution, not victory. Same with most of the mage independence movement: actually rebelling is a greater priority than setting the groundwork for a rebellion to actually succeed. If there is a mage victory in DAI, it will be despite the mage leadership, not because of them.



#366
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

Spoiler


Alternatively:

Spoiler

Is the first Gavrilo Princip?



#367
Grieving Natashina

Grieving Natashina
  • Members
  • 14 513 messages

Is the first Gavrilo Princip?

Yep.



#368
lil yonce

lil yonce
  • Members
  • 2 319 messages

@SamaraDraven; I read the rest of your post, and no surprise, I disagree. Hehe. These posts are getting longer, and I don't think either one of us going to change our minds in the end, so I'll just make this post as short as possible.

 

1. If anyone had jurisdiction over Anders, it was Aveline IMO. Not Hawke. Hawke doesn't even have a real office. Champion of Kirkwall is nice, but Aveline is the Guard-Captain. Dealing with criminals is her job, and she was right there. I don't think Hawke is more right than Sebastian or has any more authority than Sebastian regarding Anders.

 

2. I don't see Alistair as being any different from Sebastian in choosing to leave at the Landsmeet. He was one of only three Grey Wardens in the country, he knew that, at this point Loghain hasn't gone through the ritual, and still he leaves the Warden and Riordan to fight the Archdemon in the final showdown right around the corner. It was the same thing Sebastian did, and its understandable.

 

3. Sebastian wasn't just bumming around Kirkwall. He petitions the Viscount for support in Act 1. He doesn't find out until Act 2 that the Harrimans were behind his family's overthrow, and plans to gather info on the situation in Starkhaven before making a run at, or thinking about making a run at the throne if asked when he's returning to Starkhaven. The desire demon makes him doubt the purity of his decision and he has to sort that out. Elthina has been telling him to return to the Chantry in earnest, Sebastian wants to honor his commitment to his faith, has thought about all the reasons why he wouldn't want to be king, and since the desire demon episode, he's unsure about everything and is looking for guidance from the Maker on the issue. In Act 3, he refuses to leave Elthina behind to deal with the mages and templars because he's scared for her safety and wants to protect her. Once the mess was sorted out, he was going to leave because he's discovered/reasoned (whatever) that a king may serve the Maker better than a brother. I don't think this sequence of events makes Sebastian unreasonable. I think its pretty understandable and human.

 

4. It seems pretty straightforward to me that he's bringing an army to fight against what he thinks is going to be another Tevinter with Anders at the helm.

 

5. I don't think making a decision between being Chantry Brother and Prince of Starkhaven is an easy one to make, and he can't be both, so when you talk about leaders have more than one identity and role, its not the same because the point is that he can't be both. He can't be a Chantry Brother and Prince of Starkhaven at the same time, and whichever he chooses will define him for life. Its not a small decision, and he has to make it in a highly unusual pressure cooker circumstance. The other identity, one equally important to him, is gone forever, its not put on the backburner while he acts as king or gives a sermon. Its not a simple choice of occupation, its more than deciding what he wants to do, its deciding who he is going to be for the rest of his life. I don't condemn him for being unsure.

 

But good debate, and yay for Sebastian.  ^_^


  • Senya, Snore, SamaraDraven et 1 autre aiment ceci

#369
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

Spoiler


Alternatively:

Spoiler

I get it, IIRC, but I wonder how many other people do.


  • Hellion Rex aime ceci

#370
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

I get it, IIRC, but I wonder how many other people do.

Me gets it too.



#371
SamaraDraven

SamaraDraven
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages

@lil yonce  Yeah these posts are getting ridonkulous. :) Still I disagree that Seb wasn't being selfish, that he needed 10 years to get in gear. Deciding he wants to be king in such a moment as he displays and threatening war over one man (because I think it's folly to believe Anders could start another TI) it doesn't speak well of his fitness to rule imo.

 

There's no reason he can't still keep his Chantry devotion as a king. He may not be a brother in an official sense but he doesn't stop being devout just because he's king. The things he learned as a brother should serve him well as a king if he remembers to live by those edicts. That he storms off all hot headed as he does is contrary to the Chantry's teachings. Elthina wouldn't have approved. So, again, I still can't help but see him as wishy washy and selfish rather than true to his convictions.

 

But like you said, we probably aren't going to get anywhere, so good debate, indeed. :D


  • lil yonce aime ceci

#372
Babizokahh

Babizokahh
  • Members
  • 44 messages

Sebastian is by far my least favorite companion character from all dragon age franchise, and is probably the only one i can honestly say i would not care if he never appears again, but i do know people who liked him, so i would also not mind if he DID make a cameo, would be a nice moment for people who liked him.



#373
LobselVith8

LobselVith8
  • Members
  • 16 993 messages

Good point. He may let a cooler head prevail in time. He's not too proud, like Loghain was, to try a better angle later. I just hope his newfound purpose in returning to his people isn't affected and that he's staying there to be the king he says he wants to be. I swear, if we find out he bailed on Starkhaven to hunt Anders alone I will never have a shred of respect for him.

 

I suppose Sebastian and Starkhaven may be covered in a future Dragon Age game, since Inquisition apparently isn't going to delve into the city-states of the Free Marches.

 

I was thinking of this earlier. About how Anders essentially lit the match on the barrel of oil and scurried off (if you don't kill him). I mean, what was he expecting? Take out one Chantry and the mages are free? The Chantry and Adrastianism are bigger than one building. The mages aren't equipped to fight a war. So I really don't understand how he logically thought it would really advance his cause.

 

Anders said exactly what he intended: to show that the Circles are an injustice. Anders came to Kirkwall because of the horrors that Karl described in his letters, and no one was motivated to do anything despite what was transpiring in Kirkwall - the Knight-Commander becoming the de facto Viscount, the templar death squad, the attempt to commander control over the City Guard. Even Leliana's presence in Kirkwall has "Sister Nightingale" say that the Chantry is looking at the mages to blame for the unrest in Kirkwall, completely ignoring Meredith entirely.

 

Tearing down the Chantry controlled Circles was the point, and the Champion's actions can play a role in showing the mages in the Circles that the templars can be defied. Condemning an entire Circle for the actions of one man - because, as Gaider has pointed out, it was entirely legal for Meredith to order the execution of an entire populace - shows the imbalance in granting the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars the power of life and death over mages.

 

Now there's the Mage-Templar War, and as the developers said, the Inquisitor is going to be the "deciding factor" in the struggle between mages and templars. They apparently are equipped to fight a war, considering they've participated in the Blights, the Exalted March against the Dales, the Exalted March against the Imperium, and the New Exalted Marches against the Qunari, not to mention the current war with Lambert's forces.

 

Regardless of how we feel about what Anders did, or even how Sebastian felt about the demise of his surrogate mother, he was part of a chain of events that has inevitably lead to the Mage-Templar War, and an opportunity for the mages to maintain their autonomy from a system that has forced them into servitude for the better part of a millennia. I'm curious to see Sebastian's reaction to this in the future.


  • SamaraDraven aime ceci

#374
EmissaryofLies

EmissaryofLies
  • Members
  • 2 695 messages

Sebastian is by far my least favorite companion character from all dragon age franchise, and is probably the only one i can honestly say i would not care if he never appears again, but i do know people who liked him, so i would also not mind if he DID make a cameo, would be a nice moment for people who liked him.

 

 

How very soft of you, you'll fit in very well on these forums. 



#375
Guest_StreetMagic_*

Guest_StreetMagic_*
  • Guests

I think it's a shame that they couldn't have used Alec Newman (the voice actor) for a tougher character. I've seen him in some shows (some good Trek episodes, as well as playing Paul Atreides in the Sci-Fi TV version of Dune).

 

He voices Fenarel too though, I think.