Devout to his interpretation, not necessarily to the prevailing religious authority. Otherwise, you'd have to argue that, say, Martin Luther wasn't devout.
The Qun also seems to incorporate strong superstitious elements, like that of tools containing souls.
Uh-huh.
And Aveline and Varric are devout Agnostics, Morrigan is a devout Darwinist, Isabela a devout Hedonist, Bartrand a devout Materialist, and Sandal a devout Enchantist.
Uh-huh.
And Aveline and Varric are devout Agnostics, Morrigan is a devout Darwinist, Isabela a devout Hedonist, Bartrand a devout Materialist, and Sandal a devout Enchantist.
Lol devout agnostic oh crap i have to see that 
Lol devout agnostic oh crap i have to see that
My old roommate Marco describes himself as "Militant Agnostic - I don't know. You don't either!"
I'd say he is as devout in his belief as anyone can be. We certainly had countless vigorous debates over the topic.
Merrill. And Zevran, apparently. Not to mention Leliana. And Velanna, and Bethany. In fact, there's really no shortage of devout people.[/quote]
Sten, "No".
They are religious maybe, they aren't devout.
There is a difference. I am religious but would never categorize myself as devout.
Lelianna I will give you but not the others.
I'm not so sure about Merrill. In conversation with Sebastian, she says: "Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us." That's part of the Dalish lifestyle - adhering to their cultural and religious beliefs, despite the overwhelming attempts to have the Elvhen convert to the human religion and abandon their traditional ways for a human lifestyle. It's not quite the same as Leliana serving at the Chantry in Lothering, but being true to being elven can be argued as the Dalish showing their devotion to the Creators.
As for Sebastian, I wonder why the developers wrote him as saying that there are so many souls waiting to receive the Light of the Chant (when he encounters the Dalish camp), but then the developers wrote the Prince telling Merrill (when she informs him about the Creators), "We say the same of the Maker. Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world." It's similar to the inconsistency in how Sebastian contemplates handing over Merrill and Anders to templars (when speaking to Fenris), but then has numerous conversations with Merrill where he has no problem with her at all (or even his suggestion for apostate Hawke to become the new Viscount).
My old roommate Marco describes himself as "Militant Agnostic - I don't know. You don't either!"
I'd say he is as devout in his belief as anyone can be. We certainly had countless vigorous debates over the topic.
Well as i don't know him so i can't rly tell perhaps he belives in that but i doubt that he is devout about that.Im atheist myself but i never was devout atheism which is simple lack of belif in god when agnostic simple can't rly tell so don't care so it is rather wierd.
Devout to his interpretation, not necessarily to the prevailing religious authority.
No i was strictly speaking of Andrastian teachings.
We get plenty of those who believe in the Maker and the Chant but few of them that actually served their god in so far capacity in Thedas, Sebby stands alone in that regard.
Unlike Leliana he took vows 
*snip just so we know who I'm responding to.
Fixing the Eluvian can be seen as an act of religious devotion for Merrill.
I'm not so sure about Merrill. In conversation with Sebastian, she says: "Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us." That's part of the Dalish lifestyle - adhering to their cultural and religious beliefs, despite the overwhelming attempts to have the Elvhen convert to the human religion and abandon their traditional ways for a human lifestyle. It's not quite the same as Leliana serving at the Chantry in Lothering, but being true to being elven can be argued as the Dalish showing their devotion to the Creators.
I'm not so sure that "being true to being elven" is a form of devotion. A Dalish Warden could even tell jokes when hahren Paivel was trying to teach elven history to some children.
Paivel: "Children, hear of the fall of the Dales! Hear the tale of what makes you Dalish! Would you care to begin, da'len?"
Dalish Warden: "Well, children, it starts with mommy and daddy elf..."
I knew I was going to like my Dalish Warden after using that line Curiously, if you end Paivel's speech with the more devout "We are the last of the Elvhenan. Never again shall we submit" after telling that joke, Paivel says jokingly that it's a miracle that the warden wasn't as smartass as usual this time. So that means that there are several levels of devotion among the Dalish. Just being true to being elven is not enough, unless we start using the 'no true scotsman' fallacy.
I'm not so sure about Merrill. In conversation with Sebastian, she says: "Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us." That's part of the Dalish lifestyle - adhering to their cultural and religious beliefs, despite the overwhelming attempts to have the Elvhen convert to the human religion and abandon their traditional ways for a human lifestyle. It's not quite the same as Leliana serving at the Chantry in Lothering, but being true to being elven can be argued as the Dalish showing their devotion to the Creators.
As for Sebastian, I wonder why the developers wrote him as saying that there are so many souls waiting to receive the Light of the Chant (when he encounters the Dalish camp), but then the developers wrote the Prince telling Merrill (when she informs him about the Creators), "We say the same of the Maker. Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world." It's similar to the inconsistency in how Sebastian contemplates handing over Merrill and Anders to templars (when speaking to Fenris), but then has numerous conversations with Merrill where he has no problem with her at all (or even his suggestion for apostate Hawke to become the new Viscount).
Devout-having or showing deep religious feeling or commitment.
So the very nature of being devout is tied to religion. not a lifestyle choice.
I don't consider Merril devout. Being devout means you stand out in your devotion to religion. Merrill comments on the Dalish beliefs, but compared to Sebastian and Leliana she doesn't really exhibit them. In other words they aren't the central theme of her life.
Sten thinks his sword is part of his soul, not that it has its own soul. I believe he specifically states that the Qunari do not believe in religion-ie not devout.
As for the sebastian turning them over to the templars thing. There are a whole slew of things in DA2 that don't add up. Starting with Orsino being the bad mage instead of whomever blew up the chantry and working its way down from there.
Why are we even arguing this, it was a throw away line relating to a male andrastian party member.....
Why are we even arguing this, it was a throw away line relating to a male andrastian party member.....
Because we are bored and there's no new information to play with. I don't know if just after Asunder the forum became livelier, but I suppose people will have more interesting things to talk about when The Masked Empire is released. I hope.
Because we are bored and there's no new information to play with. I don't know if just after Asunder the forum became livelier, but I suppose people will have more interesting things to talk about when The Masked Empire is released. I hope.
Hope, Let me tell you something my friend, Hope is a dangerous thing, Hope can drive a man insane. It's got no use on the BSN. You'd better get used to that Idea.
If his character arc at the end of Act 3 is cemented, sure.
It was i just love how others try paint anders as victim when practically his life before was better than most of peoples living in thedas outside tranquil karl circle didn't harm and even gave him better life than he would have without it him in any way as far he escaped 7 times and he didn't face any devastating consequences.And as far chantry isn't responsible for peoples thinking that mages are cursed (properly) mages were hated before chantry and before circles even more because peoples had to deal with sh** that mages were causing so well so there is little chantry blame that peoples hate mages and more blame in mages who deliver only suffering to non-mages...
Love or hate Anders, saying "nothing devastating" happend to him is't true. I think 1 year in solatery confiment is a pritty devastating thing to happen to a person.
Sry know this is old, but felt a need to post that.
(sry for my english)
Love or hate Anders, saying "nothing devastating" happend to him is't true. I think 1 year in solatery confiment is a pritty devastating thing to happen to a person.
Sry know this is old, but felt a need to post that.
(sry for my english)
He escaped 7 times most of societies (not modern) would punish him with death for such thing if that was done by someone so he done that to himself...
My old roommate Marco describes himself as "Militant Agnostic - I don't know. You don't either!"
A smart man, Marco.
Before we can claim to know anything at all, we need to be careful about how we define knowledge.
If Anders was devout, he wouldn't question the Chantry's stance on magic and would in no way be capable of blowing up the chantry.
As the original comment was referring specifically to a guy, Bethany and Leliana don't apply.
Qunari don't have a religion, they have a belief system.
Ah, but he was. If you recall Awakening, when he's talking to Wynne and she's talking about mages removing themselves from Chantry rule, he says something to the affect of "That's a recipe for disaster!" My interpretation was that both living in Kirkwall and the infusion of Justice changed his views there.
I must be one of the few that neither hate or love Sebastian. His religious talks I thought were well done and certainly wasn't an issue for me. I just want his wishy-washy butt to tend to his people in Starkhaven (that is, if he made up his fickle mind finally) and stay out of Kirkwall.
And ugh, as much as I dislike agreeing with TKS about anything regarding mages, he brings up a valid point.
Ah, but he was. If you recall Awakening, when he's talking to Wynne and she's talking about mages removing themselves from Chantry rule, he says something to the affect of "That's a recipe for disaster!" My interpretation was that both living in Kirkwall and the infusion of Justice changed his views there.
I must be one of the few that neither hate or love Sebastian. His religious talks I thought were well done and certainly wasn't an issue for me. I just want his wishy-washy butt to tend to his people in Starkhaven (that is, if he made up his fickle mind finally) and stay out of Kirkwall.
And ugh, as much as I dislike agreeing with TKS about anything regarding mages, he brings up a valid point.
I was referencing were Anders had gone. Yes in Awakening he was different, though you could argue that he was just being pragmatic and didn't think the mages could survive without the chantry, but still I find the devoutness of Sebastian to be much better.
I was referencing were Anders had gone. Yes in Awakening he was different, though you could argue that he was just being pragmatic and didn't think the mages could survive without the chantry, but still I find the devoutness of Sebastian to be much better.
Hey, no arguments from me. I have two big issues with Sebastian and one of them is due to gameplay.
First, he was wishy-washy as hell. "I wanna be a Prince! I wanna be a priest! No wait, I want to be a prince! Never mind Grand Cleric, I want to be a priest!" Drove me up a wall. I tried it as both his friend and his rival, but the results were the same. I have some problems with other companions, but I never felt a lack of conviction was one of them.
The second was his class. I usually play either archers or dual wield daggers, though I prefer archers when I can. I almost always take Varric everywhere, so Sebastian sadly became the dumping ground for bows I'd outgrown and rings/belts that were a little too nice to sell.
He escaped 7 times most of societies (not modern) would punish him with death for such thing if that was done by someone so he done that to himself...
In 6 of thous cases he was punished, but Irving intervined because he didn't think Anders was a danger (which he wasn't).
And it dosen't matter what most societies would punish him with. As messed up as the circle/templar debats are, Chantry law didn't warrent harsher punishment. Gregory and Irving might have argude about it but Anders never attacked the templars that after him (well mabye verbaly) but he wasn't a danger to warrent the right of tranqality or a blood mage to be killed.
In 6 of thous cases he was punished, but Irving intervined because he didn't think Anders was a danger (which he wasn't).
And it dosen't matter what most societies would punish him with. As messed up as the circle/templar debats are, Chantry law didn't warrent harsher punishment. Gregory and Irving might have argude about it but Anders never attacked the templars that after him (well mabye verbaly) but he wasn't a danger to warrent the right of tranqality or a blood mage to be killed.
Do i have to mention what he did during his 7 (8?) escape he merge with spirit and 7 years later blow up chantry so yep he was dangerous just in another cases he wasn't give enough to screw something.
Im not lawful type myself but if you break law do it correctlyand try to not be caught if you are blame for that goes only to yourself.
@TKS I partially agree with you here. I am in agreement that Anders should not have been allowed to escape that many times and should have probably been executed. However, there is no way in hell that anyone could have seen Anders eventually blowing up the Chantry in Kirkwall.
One cannot predict all the events that it took to get to that point: Finding himself in Vigil's Keep, becoming a Warden, meeting Justice, fusing with Justice, going to Kirkwall to save Karl, staying in Kirkwall, having Justice's ideals slowly take him over and years later blowing up the Chantry.
This is getting a little off-topic. If Anders is dead/on the run, he isn't in Kirkwall. As a result, I think that Sebastian returning doesn't have much of a point. I could be wrong, but I don't see him with much (if any) future screen time. We might see Seb again in a future EU, but I'm not banking on his appearance in Inquisition.
@TKS I partially agree with you here. I am in agreement that Anders should not have been allowed to escape that many times and should have probably been executed. However, there is no way in hell that anyone could have seen Anders eventually blowing up the Chantry in Kirkwall.
One cannot predict all the events that it took to get to that point: Finding himself in Vigil's Keep, becoming a Warden, meeting Justice, fusing with Justice, going to Kirkwall to save Karl, staying in Kirkwall, having Justice's ideals slowly take him over and years later blowing up the Chantry.
This is getting a little off-topic. If Anders is dead/on the run, he isn't in Kirkwall. As a result, I think that Sebastian returning doesn't have much of a point. I could be wrong, but I don't see him with much (if any) future screen time. We might see Seb again in a future EU, but I'm not banking on his appearance in Inquisition.
Rebel , stupid and reckless sounds harmless especially in case of mage so yep he was dangerous.
Sure there was no way he would blow up chantry specifically by as i said having that traits you can easily predict that he will be danger especially in da 2 but of course as da 2 is big stupidity is only option we can't do nothing about it.
Rebel , stupid and reckless sounds harmless especially in case of mage so yep he was dangerous.
Sure there was no way he would blow up chantry specifically by as i said having that traits you can easily predict that he will be danger especially in da 2 but of course as da 2 is big stupidity is only option we can't do nothing about it.
Dude, he was almost two different guys. He didn't have as many of those "traits" that you were talking about. Remember Awakening, if kept Wynne alive and brought Anders with you? She talks about the mages that want to leave the Circle and Anders says, "That's a recipe for disaster!" The only "traits" that he had that even suggested that he was going to blow up a sodding church was his inability to stay in the Circle.
Why don't we drop the Anders subject or take it into the active Anders thread? This is getting way off topic.
Do i have to mention what he did during his 7 (8?) escape he merge with spirit and 7 years later blow up chantry so yep he was dangerous just in another cases he wasn't give enough to screw something.
Im not lawful type myself but if you break law do it correctlyand try to not be caught if you are blame for that goes only to yourself.
No I know what he did (and that is the 8) but that doesn't warrent killing Anders from Origens or Awakining.
What Anders did in the first 7 attemts was harmless, if you are locked in a tower cut of from the rest of the world, but reading about it ... wouldn't you like to experiance what it is to be free? Even thou he knows he will be caught and punished he takes that risk. And to be fair to that Anders he never hurt anyone.
You can't punish a person for something he has't done yet, which was my point. If you do that has nothing to with any law or justis system.
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