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[Char]

So I'm a little late to this party and I just wanted to say I am so so happy for everyone, what a fab interview! I thought we'd have to wait for GaymerX for the reveal! I'm off to dance around my living room for a bit, I'm having a fab evening in general and I hope you are all having a great time too

[fiveforchaos]

 

I'm kind of hoping he anti-abuse but pro-slavery and when confronted with it, his retort is "Because your peasants are so free? So equal?"

 

Seeing as how this was considered a very reasonable perspective to have when the abolition movement was just getting off the ground I'd love it if his character turned out to have a view similar to this. Or otherwise had some opinions that would be considered very liberal by Tevinter's standards but still very extreme from the perspective of anyone else in Thedas. That'd make for some interesting discussions.

[MisterJB]

This Garahel?

 

http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Garahel

 

Precisely. Garahel killed an Archdemon and the elven lot is what it is.

I wouldn't mind reminding Dorian of that.

[Hellion Rex]

Having more closely read the interview, I am concerned by one thing (well, more than one, but I'm not sure how to word the other, so I will abstain): 

 

Spoiler

"Fully gay" is such a loaded term, especially in light of how much the devs have danced around actual bisexuality (making their most openly bisexual characters promiscuous and hesitant to commit...a trend that seems like it could continue with Iron Bull). Even though I know what David meant, it's still a reminder that bisexuality is considered a watered down version of both heterosexuality and homosexuality, like bisexuals can only commit to their partners up to a certain percentage point. Just saying that Dorian is gay would have done the job, especially considering his opposition to the whole marriage/mage babies song and dance.

As a gay guy myself, I think Gaider said it to make sure that there would be no ambiguity on the subject whatsoever. I am glad he made it perfectly clear, and I highly doubt he meant it as a slight on bisexuality.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I wont be surprised at all if Dorian supports mage leadership, but I don't see it as any better or worse than supporting the human nobles, or religious leadership, or basically any other of the existing types of rulers in Thedas. 

[LinksOcarina]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?

 

I mean, I guess its great that we have a playable gay character, but that wall is pretty much a given in 2014. In 2004 maybe not so much.

[JadePrince]

Having more closely read the interview, I am concerned by one thing (well, more than one, but I'm not sure how to word the other, so I will abstain): 

 

Spoiler

"Fully gay" is such a loaded term, especially in light of how much the devs have danced around actual bisexuality (making their most openly bisexual characters promiscuous and hesitant to commit...a trend that seems like it could continue with Iron Bull). Even though I know what David meant, it's still a reminder that bisexuality is considered a watered down version of both heterosexuality and homosexuality, like bisexuals can only commit to their partners up to a certain percentage point. Just saying that Dorian is gay would have done the job, especially considering his opposition to the whole marriage/mage babies song and dance.

 

Yeah, I do understand your feelings. I admit I sighed a little at the wording, but I do agree with Elu that I think he said it to clarify that Dorian is unambiguously gay-- perhaps as opposed to Fenris, who (because there was no in-game evidence of his sexuality aside from his romance-ability) could read as gay in one person's game but still be romance-able by a female player in another. 

 

I'd like to think(hope) that it was a case of "fully gay", as opposed to "gay or straight depending on the PC's gender", NOT "fully gay" as opposed to "bisexual".

[sandalisthemaker]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?

 

I mean, I guess its great that we have a playable gay character, but that wall is pretty much a given in 2014. In 2004 maybe not so much.

 

And yet how many games have a complex openly gay male character in a prominent, highly visible role who can also be a love interest?

[Mistic]

Yes, well you see I haven't read World of Thedas, although each time someone quotes from it, it seems to change something that I have previously thought was lore.   However, DG wasn't quoting directly from WoT.   He used the word "shameful" rather than "selfish".    Sure it could be seen as selfish not to keep the family line going.   It also seems odd that it is okay with slaves but not with nobles, with the underlying implication than it doesn't have to be consensual.   Allowing for the fact that a gay man might find it difficult to get aroused enough to "do his duty" with a woman, so long as you were perpetuating the line, why was it "shameful" and "deviant" to have an affair with another noble? (hence my Ancient Greece analogy).

  

It does seem as though somewhere over the last 4-5 years we have moved from sexuality not being as big issue in Thedas, to sexuality being a big issue in Tevinter.   Now I begin to understand why everyone seemed so convinced that the rebel Tevinter Magister was going to be gay.  

 

I think the real clue is at the beginning of his character profile. Gaider describes his family this way: "He comes from a wealthy and influential family, one of many that arrange marriages and raise their children to become perfect mages… yet Dorian has rejected that life." It's almost the first thing he mentions about Dorian apart from him being from Tevinter.

 

If we take WoT into account (and we should, since it's pretty evident that some lore and articles, like Blackwall's letter, were written with DA:I in mind), my guess is that his family may have turn a blind eye to his homosexuality as long as it didn't embarrass the family. In Tevinter terms, as long as it's with slaves. But what if Dorian doesn't want to hide? What if he doesn't want to have an arranged marriage with someone he doesn't love? What if he loved another person and there was tragedy (for him) and scandal (for his family)? That could have motivated him to leave Tevinter.

 

But that's just my guess. Definitely want to meet this character in person. At last a Magister that doesn't want to kill or enslave us (I hope).

[Avaflame]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?

 

I mean, I guess its great that we have a playable gay character, but that wall is pretty much a given in 2014. In 2004 maybe not so much.

Just because the wall's been expected to be broken, doesn't change the significance of it being broken.

[Hellion Rex]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?

Well, how many fully gay (not playersexual) companions have we had in any Bioware game? Zero. Only Sera and Dorian. So yes, this is very important to many of us.

[Milan92]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?

 

I mean, I guess its great that we have a playable gay character, but that wall is pretty much a given in 2014. In 2004 maybe not so much.

 

Its the principle and the thought behind it.

 

Hopefully it can be used as an example that other developers and publishers will follow.

[Mistic]

Precisely. Garahel killed an Archdemon and the elven lot is what it is.

I wouldn't mind reminding Dorian of that.

 

But it depends on the example. You could also mention Aveline. Hell, she was even killed. Yet her example inspired the future Emperor to allow women to become chevaliers. There's always a first time for everything.

[mikeymoonshine]

Having more closely read the interview, I am concerned by one thing (well, more than one, but I'm not sure how to word the other, so I will abstain): 

 

Spoiler

"Fully gay" is such a loaded term, especially in light of how much the devs have danced around actual bisexuality (making their most openly bisexual characters promiscuous and hesitant to commit...a trend that seems like it could continue with Iron Bull). Even though I know what David meant, it's still a reminder that bisexuality is considered a watered down version of both heterosexuality and homosexuality, like bisexuals can only commit to their partners up to a certain percentage point. Just saying that Dorian is gay would have done the job, especially considering his opposition to the whole marriage/mage babies song and dance.

 

Well yes they have done that and I was one of the first to complain about it but not all the Bi characters are like that. I felt like Isabela and Zevran were caricatures at first but in hindsight they were just two peas in a pod. Isabela was Zev's old friend and they had allot in common which is probably why they became friends, they just didn't change that about her when she became a companion in DA2. Leliana was not like that at all and she has a whole back story involving a female ex lover so Idk if you can say she isn't openly bisexual. Also Anders and Merrill are not really hesitant to commit either or overly promiscuous. (edit) Ander's is hesitant to enter into the relationship coz of the whole mage rebel thing but he commits easily once the relationship gets going. 

 

I don't think that Bisexuality is considered watered down by the devs, I just think they used the bi thing to explore ss romances. Anders romance plays out differently depending on Hawkes gender for example. This is kinda not good for characterisation but when you think about their position, they are catering to a very small percentage of players with SS romances. Few people even play the romances at all so it's not like they ever had to do this. I think it's nice that they have and have taken it this far. 

 

Anyway I think David is just happy that he finally gets to write a  major character who is gay. I don't think that comment was meant to mean anything other than that. 

[Lady Nuggins]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?

 

I mean, I guess its great that we have a playable gay character, but that wall is pretty much a given in 2014. In 2004 maybe not so much.

 

But it's clearly not such a given.  He's the first gay male companion in a Bioware game.  The first.  

 

And how about other games?  How many gay men can you name in video games who were not either demonized, offensively stereotypical, or killed maliciously?

[Grieving Natashina]

As a gay guy myself, I think Gaider said it to make sure that there would be no ambiguity on the subject whatsoever. I am glad he made it perfectly clear, and I highly doubt he meant it as a slight on bisexuality.

He's stated plenty of times that he doesn't think anything poorly about bisexuals.  I agree with Eluv here; DG was just making it 100% clear, with no doubt.  I think one of his reasons is because folks (including me) like to use his posts/blogs ect  as Word of God.

 

Interesting that my theory about Dorian looks like it was at least partially correct.  I had the feeling for quite some time that he was gay, and if he was, there's no wonder why he left Tevinter behind.  As a few people have mentioned, Dorian could have treated his slaves as partners and friends, a huge problem in Tevinter.  I'm willing to bet now that part of the reason why he joins us (mind you, just part) is because he'd be free to fall in love and not have to worry about social politics.

 

I'm really happy that gay men finally get a companion in a BioWare game!  Depending upon his personality, I might have to try my first m/m relationship in the series.  In any case, he seems fantastic.  One of the things I'm already loving about Dorian is that he's a good guy.  A good aligned magister is someone I've been wanting to see in the DA games since I first picked up Origins.  When games have sadly high rates of making their main gay characters villains or jokes, I'm glad to see that the DA team has subverted two stereotypes in gaming with one shot.

 

Mandatory celebration gif here!

 

 

While Dorian looked intriguing, I'm not sad that I can't romance him on a lady Quizzy.  I'm honestly a little choked up out of happiness.  This inclusion means so much to me, and I'm not a gay man.  However, as a member of the LGBTQ community, I'm so jazzed to see more representation in our party.  

 

My face hurts from grinning.  Again, congratulations!!

[sandalisthemaker]

Okay, so there is the potential for a little bit of angst with Dorian's sexuality since Tevinter is pretty much the only place in Thedas (besides Qunari lands, where it is unclear) that views homosexuality as "deviant." 

 

However, I don't think it will be a total sob story with Dorian, since he seems to have a confident IDGAF attitude of what Tevinter most likely thinks of him. 

[Hellion Rex]

Okay, so there is the potential for a little bit of angst with Dorian's sexuality since Tevinter is pretty much the only place in Thedas (besides Qunari lands, where it is unclear) that views homosexuality as "deviant." 

 

However, I don't think it will be a total sob story with Dorian, since he seems to have a confident IDGAF attitude of what Tevinter most likely thinks of him. 

Amen. I don't think he gives a rat's ass what they think of him.

[Lady Nuggins]

Mandatory celebration gif here!

 

 

While Dorian looked intriguing, I'm not sad that I can't romance him on a lady Quizzy.  I'm honestly a little choked up out of happiness.  This inclusion means so much to me, and I'm not a gay man.  However, as a member of the LGBTQ community, I'm so jazzed to see more representation from our party.  

 

My face hurts from grinning.  Again, congratulations!!

 

I'm so happy for our fellow gay fans, and I'm so proud to see how well the female Dorian fans have been taking the news.  I have nothing but happiness for Bioware and the BSN today.

[Vlk3]

From the interview and the character profile, I'm sure Dorian will be one of my favourite companions, maybe even the one I will like the most.
I must say, I'm dissapointed that he'll not be interested in my FemInquisitor as I know they would be the best pair  - it seems they wil have to become best friends instead. Or she will secretely love him  anyway.    It will certainly be interesting, though.

From what've heard, David Gaider wrote two romances (?) which leaves no one written by him for my canon play through. And since all my canon romances were with his characters (it just happened, I didn't plan it), I fear for my Inquisitor's love life. Hopefully, Solas will be both interesting and interested.
And if not, I guess my Inquisitor wil have to focus on saving the world instead of looking for romances
 

[Lucy Glitter]

You know,as a bisexual, him being gay is such a non-issue, I don't quite understand why its being hailed as going forward at this point?
 
I mean, I guess its great that we have a playable gay character, but that wall is pretty much a given in 2014. In 2004 maybe not so much.

Name me 5 games with prominent, openly male gay characters who play a big part in the story and who aren't resigned to cardboard cutout stereotypes or were used as amusement.

[Gikia-Kimikia]

I have a small little...totally bad fanfiction level headcanon that Fenris/Leto used to belong to Dorian's parents, and that Dorian grew up playing with him (and maybe even developed a small crush on him) before Fenris was transferred to Denaerius and/or Dorian went away for a little while to study magic. 

 

*INTERNAL SCREAMING*

 

Dorian: Mother, where's Leto? I haven't seen him since I got back from my study trip with Master Alexius. Is he at market, or...?

Dorian's Mum: Leto? Oh, yes, the elven boy that you liked so much. I forgot to tell you, dear, we did some trading while you were away. Leto, his mother, and his sister were given to Danarius' care in return for a new set of very skilled kitchen slaves. You're going to love  Miriam's meat pies, they are simply to die for. She's from Ferelden, you see, and she got the recipe when...

Dorian: Traded!? But... how could you do something like that?! Leto was my friend!

DM: *laughs* Leto wasn't your friend, my dear, he was your slave. You'll find a new favorite in no time. In fact, there is an adorable young elven boy, around your age, among our new acquisitions! You can take a look at him if you'd like, he's sure to be in the kitchen!

Dorian: *clenches fists* How can you say something like that, mother?! Leto wasn't a rug! I can't just replace  him!

DM: *clicks tongue sympathetically and smooths back Dorian's hair* Oh, my darling, you are so young. You will learn not to become so attached to them with time. You'll understand when you have your own household to run.

Dorian: *draws back* I... I'm going to my room. I have... I have reading to do. *leaves quickly*

DM: *calls after him* Alright, darling! Don't forget we're having Alexius and his son over for supper tonight! I know how you lose track of time when you're studying!

[Hellion Rex]

*INTERNAL SCREAMING*

 

Dorian: Mother, where's Leto? I haven't seen him since I got back from my study trip with Master Alexius. Is he at market, or...?

Dorian's Mum: Leto? Oh, yes, the elven boy that you liked so much. I forgot to tell you, dear, we did some trading while you were away. Leto, his mother, and his sister were given to Danarius' care in return for a new set of very skilled kitchen slaves. You're going to love  Miriam's meat pies, they are simply to die for. She's from Ferelden, you see, and she got the recipe when...

Dorian: Traded!? But... how could you do something like that?! Leto was my friend!

DM: *laughs* Leto wasn't your friend, my dear, he was your slave. You'll find a new favorite in no time. In fact, there is an adorable young elven boy, around your age, among our new acquisitions! You can take a look at him if you'd like, he's sure to be in the kitchen!

Dorian: *clenches fists* How can you say something like that, mother?! Leto wasn't a rug! I can't just replace  him!

DM: *clicks tongue sympathetically and smooths back Dorian's hair* Oh, my darling, you are so young. You will learn not to become so attached to them with time. You'll understand when you have your own household to run.

Dorian: *draws back* I... I'm going to my room. I have... I have reading to do. *leaves quickly*

DM: *calls after him* Alright, darling! Don't forget we're having Alexius and his son over for supper tonight! I know how you lose track of time when you're studying!

Dead. This was perfect.

[StrangeStrategy]

I agree for the most part with what you said, although I think that the other nations branding Tevinter as the "Big Bad" are kind of being hypocritical.

 

Let's take a look at Orlais and Ferelden.

• Racism is endemic in both.
• Apostate mages are summarily put to death because they might fall prey to a demon some day.
• Slavery still exists in both Orlais and Ferelden, albeit without governmental sanction.
• The Orlesian aristocracy spends most of their time politicking, backstabbing, and playing the "Grand Game."
• There is little to no social mobility in Orlais. See WoT pg. 60, "Many believe Orlais is a kind of meritocracy. In reality, the faint hope of achieving great things is enough to keep the poor preoccupied and the rich in power."
• The Chantry essentially committed genocide against the elves after they attacked Red Crossing, kicking them out of the Dales and creating the Elvish "diaspora" that we have today.

Sure, Tevinter needs some significant reforms. I don't think the other nations in Thedas, however, are in a position to judge.

 

1- Celene (or more specifically, Briala) was trying to improve that in Orlais!
2- Huh? Maybe now that they're in open war, but Bethany was not put to death, and that was freaking Kirkwall.

3- Not really. Servants don't exactly = slaves.

6- I wonder who attacked first.