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[mlgumm]

I think Team YOLO just means that Iron Bull, Sera and Dorian are an impulsive bunch, especially together.

[ElitePinecone]

I got the feeling Dorian's orientation would be brought up in the game, because his experience around it isn't anything like that of rest of Thedas. Conversations about how his family tried to match him up with these female mages of other powerful families, disappointment in him not making perfect little mages of his own etc. I don't think he got out of it with a view of his orientation as a "non-issue". So I don't think they'll treat it that way.

 

I imagine it will be mentioned as part of his character story, yes - but obviously there's a whole lot more to Dorian's exile from Tevinter than just his sexuality. It's a fine line between suitable references and over-saturation, but equally bad would be not mentioning it at all.

 

As I understand it, the idea of companions with defined sexualities is that it gives the writers an opportunity to bring them up, where appropriate, without needing to be ambiguous. Here's David from earlier this year:

 

"As Mark Darrah tweeted earlier today, we have characters that are gay as well as bisexual and straight. I’m not going to discuss numbers or any further details at this point, so you can make of that what you will, but that allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don’t romance the characters as well, and that’s also important."

 

If something like the Dorian/Felix connection does end up being accurate, then that's an example of where a past relationship would impact the story for every player, not just those who want to romance him - but not to the extent that it's completely overshadowing Dorian's entire character. Part of the plot might be, yes, he had a relationship with his former master's son, but that only comes up because he's helping the Inquisitor rescue Leliana and capture Alexius' special amulet thing. Dorian's reason for joining the Inquisition seems to be related to the Venatori, and I'm sure that will get a much bigger part of his story arc than his sexuality.

[Lucy Glitter]

I got the feeling Dorian's orientation would be brought up in the game, because his experience around it isn't anything like that of rest of Thedas. Conversations about how his family tried to match him up with these female mages of other powerful families, disappointment in him not making perfect little mages of his own etc. I don't think he got out of it with a view of his orientation as a "non-issue". So I don't think they'll treat it that way.

 

I think it definitely is an interesting discussion that I would like to have with him. It's almost like he's a Disney Princess in that regard... weird comparison, but it is admirable and I think that rejection of a life of convenience and indifference (towards passion, perhaps) is something that I really admire. He seems like a very passionate person and those are my favourite types of people. 

 

Okay, if any of you give him a Disney Princess-ified look after I said that I'm turning this Inquisition around.

[Lambdadelta]

I got the feeling Dorian's orientation would be brought up in the game, because his experience around it isn't anything like that of rest of Thedas. Conversations about how his family tried to match him up with these female mages of other powerful families, disappointment in him not making perfect little mages of his own etc. I don't think he got out of it with a view of his orientation as a "non-issue". So I don't think they'll treat it that way.

 

I imagine it will be mentioned as part of his character story, yes - but obviously there's a whole lot more to Dorian's exile from Tevinter than just his sexuality. It's a fine line between suitable references and over-saturation, but equally bad would be not mentioning it at all.

 

As I understand it, the idea of companions with defined sexualities is that it gives the writers an opportunity to bring them up, where appropriate, without needing to be ambiguous. Here's David from earlier this year:

 

"As Mark Darrah tweeted earlier today, we have characters that are gay as well as bisexual and straight. I’m not going to discuss numbers or any further details at this point, so you can make of that what you will, but that allows us to tell more types of character stories without having to resort to ambiguity. Those stories exist for players who don’t romance the characters as well, and that’s also important."

 

If something like the Dorian/Felix connection does end up being accurate, then that's an example of where a past relationship would impact the story for every player, not just those who want to romance him - but not to the extent that it's completely overshadowing Dorian's entire character. Part of the plot might be, yes, he had a relationship with his former master's son, but that only comes up because he's helping the Inquisitor rescue Leliana and capture Alexius' special amulet thing. Dorian's reason for joining the Inquisition seems to be related to the Venatori, and I'm sure that will get a much bigger part of his story arc than his sexuality.

 

I agree with both of these. I think it would be good if Dorian's sexuality is brought up as a way to explicitly confirm and spell out that he is gay, rather than it just being implied by him being only romanceable by guys (assuming he is a romance), but not to the point where it practically defines his character. It is obviously something that would have an impact on his life, and David Gaider insinuated as much in the interview, but I also don't think it would be the one and only thing in his life that had the sort of impact it did. The ideal depiction would be not a "I'm gay because I'm different and ~deviant~" thing, or a "I'm an outcast because I am gay and only that" but rather "one of the many, many things that made me differ from my peers and contributed to my status as a pariah, and made me realize the innate hypocrisy of my country were my experiences as a gay man" It really seems as though there were a whole lot of things which set him apart, sexuality being only part of it-- or rather, that it's not as much his sexuality in itself but his refusal to cover it up and go along with the facade of perfection, as the rest of the magisters do with anything that that does not fit social standards/ideals. So it's not irrelevant or a non-issue, but it's one of the many, many things there are to him as a character rather than the only.

[Maria Caliban]

It's okay to talk about how being gay is sometimes sh*tty.

Is it fun? Nope. Is it the truth? Yep.

We have to ask ourselves if games are just there to make us feel good or if they can touch on all the complex, messy, and painful things humans have going on inside. Personally, my favorite queer character from the last couple of years is Elsa from Frozen. I wouldn't feel that way if she started the movie loving herself and totally not caring that she was different from other people.

[ElitePinecone]

but rather "one of the many, many things that made me differ from my peers and contributed to my status as a pariah, and made me realize the innate hypocrisy of my country were my experiences as a gay man" It really seems as though there were a whole lot of things which set him apart, sexuality being only part of it-- or rather, that it's not as much his sexuality in itself but his refusal to cover it up and go along with the facade of perfection, as the rest of the magisters do with anything that that does not fit social standards/ideals. So it's not irrelevant or a non-issue, but it's one of the many, many things there are to him as a character rather than the only.

 

Yeah, this is a good way to put it.

 

To compare it with Steve Cortez (I know, different team, different writer, different game, but he's the only other significant gay character in Bioware's games, ever), I was slightly put off by how much his sexuality became front and centre in his narrative. It was the very first thing players saw about him, as if the writers were deliberately being as obvious as possible to get the message across - and although he had a backstory about being a fighter pilot and liking space-football, pretty much all his character moments had to do with moving on from his dead husband. That's admirably egalitarian Carth Syndrome, but it didn't give him a lot of other things to do and be.

 

It helps that Dorian seems to have a much bigger role in the game, and more reasons to participate in the story (as a Tevinter character, as a magister, as a magic expert, as a reformer) beyond his sexuality.

[Eveangaline]

I think it may come up, but probably mostly alongside larger complaints about why he didn't fit in Tevinter. If I had to guess it will probably come up more in the Romance, if only because...well his romantic past will come up more with someone he's romancing. And it might be interesting if it gave the PC a chance to respond if asked about how he was treated in Ferelden for the same thing...

 

Actually now that I think about it, it will probably mostly come up in relation to his specific relationship with that magisters son. Since you do a quest where all that history is important and whatnot. And it will be less about his sexuality in general and more about how Tevinters views fucked up that specific relationship.

[Ymirr]

Dorian's reason for joining the Inquisition seems to be related to the Venatori, and I'm sure that will get a much bigger part of his story arc than his sexuality.

Seriously doubt that his sexuality is a major part of his story, but I just couldn't see them ignoring all the problems he ought to have had in regards to his orientation and leaving us with a "Not interested in women, sorry." I would have been a bit disappointed if they did.
 

[Trophonius]

If something like the Dorian/Felix connection does end up being accurate, then that's an example of where a past relationship would impact the story for every player, not just those who want to romance him - but not to the extent that it's completely overshadowing Dorian's entire character. Part of the plot might be, yes, he had a relationship with his former master's son, but that only comes up because he's helping the Inquisitor rescue Leliana and capture Alexius' special amulet thing. Dorian's reason for joining the Inquisition seems to be related to the Venatori, and I'm sure that will get a much bigger part of his story arc than his sexuality.

I have no doubt that Dorian's storyline has tremendous potential, but a passing mention of his sexuality, at least, wouldn't hurt. Part of what irked me about the Anders/Karl arc in DA2 was that the dynamic of their relationship changed depending on the player character's gender. If a player wanted to ignore Anders' attraction to men, they were provided leverage to do so. It's one of the major reasons why I never truly understood the need to withhold the nature of Anders and Karl's relationship to a female player character. During the Tranquility quest, it was palpable from Anders' horrified expression that he regarded Karl as someone he cared deeply for. He should've been able to freely communicate his grief and impart the knowledge that Karl was his lover in any playthrough.

Hopefully, this time, there won't be any kind of ambiguity with regards to Dorian and his lover(s).

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

Yeah, this is a good way to put it.

 

To compare it with Steve Cortez (I know, different team, different writer, different game, but he's the only other significant gay character in Bioware's games, ever), I was slightly put off by how much his sexuality became front and centre in his narrative. It was the very first thing players saw about him, as if the writers were deliberately being as obvious as possible to get the message across - and although he had a backstory about being a fighter pilot and liking space-football, pretty much all his character moments had to do with moving on from his dead husband. That's admirably egalitarian Carth Syndrome, but it didn't give him a lot of other things to do and be.

 

It helps that Dorian seems to have a much bigger role in the game, and more reasons to participate in the story (as a Tevinter character, as a magister, as a magic expert, as a reformer) beyond his sexuality.

I agree. I feel that Steve Cortez sadly is a really not that good example how to show a gay character in the game, basically for many people like you said he was just a gay pilot in my opinion it would be better if sexuality would be brought more naturally (maybe a little bit later or in other circumstances... i don't know) and i'm saying that because most homophobes treat Cortez as a "whiny f...g" etc. and that's really sad. But i think in case of Dorian and Sera it will be a lot better not because they are companions but they also have a bigger backstory

Ok i'm gonna stop because i'm babbling again...

[Lucy Glitter]

I don't think his entire character will be dictated by his orientation at all. Again, it would be nice to have one conversation with him about it pertaining to Tevinter society. 

 

It's okay to talk about how being gay is sometimes sh*tty.

Is it fun? Nope. Is it the truth? Yep.

We have to ask ourselves if games are just there to make us feel good or if they can touch on all the complex, messy, and painful things humans have going on inside. Personally, my favorite queer character from the last couple of years is Elsa from Frozen. I wouldn't feel that way if she started the movie loving herself and totally not caring that she was different from other people.

 

Okay I was totally with you up until then. The song does have multiple positive meanings and messages but Elsa... ? You can't say that for certain unless a writer pops up like J.K. Rowling did... It'd be nice but that's never been proven on anything more than subtext.

[HiddenInWar]

Imagine Elsa as a party member...she randomly starts singing the same songs over and over again in battle to weaken the enemies. 

[Eveangaline]

I think his sexuality will get more than a passing reference considering I think the corpse of his ex boyfriend is going to be walking around? At least I thought that redcliffe quest was that Magister trying to raise his son from the dead (and that's why Leliana had to kill him)

[Maria Caliban]

Okay I was totally with you up until then. The song does have multiple positive meanings and messages but Elsa... ? You can't say that for certain unless a writer pops up like J.K. Rowling did... It'd be nice but that's never been proven on anything more than subtext.

I am sure that if Frozen 2 ever happens, Elsa will have a romantic relationship with a man. I am, in fact, aware that there could never ever ever be a lesbian Disney Princess. That her not ending up with a dude is simply because she wasn't the heroine.

I am also aware that if I dare to call a character queer there has to be a scene where she has sex with a girl or someone will 'correct' me. Thank you for reminding me of this.

[Lucy Glitter]

I'd love to know if Felix was romantically involved with Dorian. That'd mean Dorian has Carth Syndrome, though. Uuuuuuhhh~

*snip*

Let's take this outside of the Dorian thread

[Grieving Natashina]

Imagine Elsa as a party member...she randomly starts singing the same songs over and over again in battle to weaken the enemies. 

So she'd be a bard then.  

[Eveangaline]

Carth syndrome is the "I'm so sad I have a dead ex" thing right? It doesn't have to be that. If the two separated before he even left Tevinter then it's not quite the same. It's still someone important to him that died, but it's not the same as someone you were in a relationship with dying. It can be more about how pissed he is the guys dad would pervert the fade and his sons corpse in an attempt to bring him back than about missing his ex.

 

I admit I'd like it better if his relationship wasn't going when the other guy died. And was more a "We were together, but I wasn't willing to buckle under and left..but he couldn't give it up and he stayed. Still he was important to me. I still don't approve of what his father did and it's important to me to see him laid to rest"

 

Leaves it open to talk about how his sexuality effected his life in Tevinter but not overwhelm us with him talking about his forelornness over his dead love.

[Lucy Glitter]

Carth syndrome is the "I'm so sad I have a dead ex" thing right? It doesn't have to be that. If the two separated before he even left Tevinter then it's not quite the same. It's still someone important to him that died, but it's not the same as someone you were in a relationship with dying. It can be more about how pissed he is the guys dad would pervert the fade and his sons corpse in an attempt to bring him back than about missing his ex.

 

It's pretty much bringing it up constantly and comparing you to them. Anomen did it in a creepy way, Sky did it, Thane and please remind me if there were others. It's totally a compliment and it is a large part of their past that you want to get to know... but it gets to the point where you question whether or not they just want another version of their lost love in you. I love Carth and his flirtation with Revan was by far the best flirtation from an LI (imHo...) but it was just a little criticism I had. 

 

I don't reference Jaheira because

Spoiler

her husband literally just died.

[Deviija]

I think Dorian's sexuality will play more than a passing reference and more than a passing reason for his self-inflicted pariah-ness.  I believe there are social, political, and philosophical reasons for Dorian walking away, for sure, but based on some of the quotes from Gaider just in that Dorian interview, I think his sexuality is a noticeable factor.  Otherwise, I doubt Gaider would've even brought his sexuality up as an answer to the threaded question of "anything in particular you enjoyed exploring about Dorian being an outcast of his society due to him not wishing to live by his society's expectations" or had Dorian be from Tevinter with the noble heteronormative social expectation structure it has.  

 

"...considering he comes from a place where "perfection" is the face that every mage put on and anything that smacks of deviancy is shameful and meant to be hidden."  A quote from the interview, and something that does have me a bit worried about the make up of how this plays out in-game.  It can come across as painting a sense of "perfection" = straight, gay = deviancy, deviancy = shameful, hide your shameful gay feelings.  I'm not keen on "being gay sucks" woe stories (there isn't a shortage of these anyway) and societies, as it is something I live with enough daily in real life.  But it's far too early to judge, with far too little information.  I'll have to see how it all plays out in-game before coming up with an actual opinion.  It could be great.  

[Lucy Glitter]

I think Dorian's sexuality will play more than a passing reference and more than a passing reason for his self-inflicted pariah-ness.  I believe there are social, political, and philosophical reasons for Dorian walking away, for sure, but based on some of the quotes from Gaider just in that Dorian interview, I think his sexuality is a noticeable factor.  Otherwise, I doubt Gaider would've even brought his sexuality up as an answer to the threaded question of "anything in particular you enjoyed exploring about Dorian being an outcast of his society due to him not wishing to live by his society's expectations" or had Dorian be from Tevinter with the noble heteronormative social expectation structure it has.  

 

Well, he could also have mentioned it just to shut us up. 

 

[Deviija]

That assumes Gaider cared how we felt.  That assumes too much!  

[ElitePinecone]

The "perfection = straight, deviancy = gay" thing seems only restricted to Tevinter, and even then it seems to be limited to the children of elite magister families. The pressure is on powerful magic users to marry other powerful magic users, have lots of magical babies, and train them so that they can increase the family's influence. If that sort of society prizes reproductive magical couples above all else, then a refusal or inability to follow that dominant expectation would be considered "shameful", not least by the family's enemies. 

 

(I mean, how would a rumour of being lesbian or gay affect someone in Minrathous' arranged marriage circles? Would other families want to avoid them, or risk not having powerful children? Showing a perfect face to the world makes sense when everyone is trying to capitalise on and exploit any sign of weakness or unsuitability.)

 

WoT already said homophobia isn't an issue in Thedas, and people are more or less left alone if they've done their duty to the family (in the case of nobility). I don't think that aspect of Tevinter should be ignored just because it's somewhat reminiscent of real-world discrimination. 

[Fizzie Panda]

I think his sexuality will be spread throughout his story. I don't think it will be a huge factor, but I think it will contribute to his role as an outcast. David did mention this in his interview. If it was a small part, I don't think he would've mentioned it. (Unless he IS trying to shut us up)

 

If he does have Carth syndrome, I hope it won't turn him into an Anders. (You know with Karl.) But in the demo at E3, it appeared that when Leliana killed Felix, Dorian was more angry at Alexius than sad for Felix. -But idk.

[Lucy Glitter]

That assumes Gaider cared how we felt.  That assumes too much!  

 

By god, you're right... something must be done!

 

ATTENTION BSN. ATTENTION B S N.

 

 

STOP ALL ASSUMMING. STOP ALL ASSUMPTIONS EVERYWHERE.

 

 

[Reznore57]

To be honest , I'd rather have him talking about how difficult it is to be rejected by his family , I mean I think it's a bit different when people close to you can't accept who you are ...than having a talk about his maybe ex boyfriend being raised as a walking dead.

There's something a bit icky about Tevinter and raising kids like some people breed dogs.

 

As for mention of his sexuality , I really don't mind if he talks about it during party banter and stuff...

I mean if for example he find some guy from the party hot , I'd have no problem if he mentions it.

Just like Isabela thought Fenris and Varric were hot  , or Shale had a soft spot for Sten.

If Dorian goes "Well The Iron Bull , You are a fine looking specimen."

My Inquisitor would probably turn to Dorian and go "High Five!"