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[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Biphobic?.... What?

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

http://chieflachief.tumblr.com/

The Office reference?

[Grieving Natashina]

I always find it funny how these issues are as important as they are popular, only a few years ago almost nobody cared that much about bi issues and many people I knew didn't like bisexuality all that much and didn't seem to understand why that was a bad thing. The whole "they are selfish" they would just cheat with the other gender" thing was the norm. Many gay guys refused to date bi men because they did not believe a bi man would ever commit to another man. 

 

Now Bi issues are in the spotlight a bit more and suddenly everyone cares. I would also say the same thing about trans issues tbf. 

You've given me a lot of food for thought.  Thanks for that.     Here's my thoughts about it:

 

That I consider a very good thing.   Folks should care about how everyone is treated, including bisexuals and transsexuals.  Generally in media, it is becoming less and less okay to have a gay character for the sake of a joke, or a lesbian just there for the "male gaze."  However, it's still considered overall not a big deal to call a bisexual "greedy/indecisive/lazy" (yes, I have seen someone call bi/pansexuals lazy.  You're guess is as good as mine) or to say that a transperson is "just someone pretending to be a man/woman."   That really needs to change and I'm glad it's being talked about nowadays.  

 

People are starting to care about those issues for the same reasons why folks care about other LGBTQ issues.  More and more, a lot of society is recognizing that the LGBTQ community isn't some alien concept, these are the people you love, work with and have friendships with.  The point is to try to do our damnest as people to treat our fellow beings with respect, and I think that's one of the reasons why biphobia and transphobia are becoming talked about.

 

Taking it back to Dorian, characters like him I think are important to the entire LGBTQ community.  Gay men finally get a companion and a hero as a romance.  Those of us that identify as bi/pansexual know that our representation is coming, and that our sexuality isn't going to be there just as a game mechanic.  

 

Plus, it doesn't hurt that Dorian kicks ass and looks good doing it.  Anyhow, that's my two creds on the matter, and just my opinion.  

 

 

Biphobic?.... What?

It's sadly a very real thing, though I think it was a huge stretch to call BioWare that.  It was pretty uncalled for it, imho.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

6 out of 8 romances in the series have been bi... am I missing something?

[Statare]

I feel this way: very few people openly called BioWare homophobic, because some how it was "acceptable" that homosexuality be represented through bisexual or playersexual characters. Now, when BioWare creates gay characters and somehow tries to be specific (wording was poor, but they admitted that) it becomes biphobia. I'm pretty serious about biphobia... but that was ridiculous.

[Moussey]

I wonder if they'll release a character kit for all of the companions in due time. I really want to see Dorian's, I have an idea in mind .

[Grieving Natashina]

6 out of 8 romances in the series have been bi... am I missing something?

Here's the sticky part about that:  According to DG, only Leliana, Anders, Zevran and Isabela were explicitly bisexual, and out of them, only three will reveal it to both sexes.   Merrill and Fenris are undefined and are not given a set sexuality, according to WOG.  So really, it's been 4:8 for the series at this point.

 

Open to all players isn't the same as bi/pansexuality.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

6 out of 8 romances in the series have been bi... am I missing something?

 5 out of 9 are available to both genders actually. Alistair, Morrigan, and Sebastian were hetero, and Merrill is sexually ambiguous.

[mikeymoonshine]

 

People are starting to care about those issues for the same reasons why folks care about other LGBTQ issues.  More and more, a lot of society is recognizing that the LGBTQ community isn't some alien concept, these are the people you love, work with and have friendships with.  The point is to try to do our damnest as people to treat our fellow beings with respect, and I think that's one of the reasons why biphobia and transphobia are becoming talked about.

 

 

Yeah I agree that it is a good thing no matter the reason. I was just adding to your speculation about these issues might be forgotten about in future. If some people's only reason for caring is that it is popular to care then that could have an effect. I also think there are allot of people that talk about lgbt and even race issues when they don't really understand them. I have nothing against this, you don't have to be an expert to care and I have gotten things wrong in the past too. I prefer to correct people who misunderstand communities through debate and polite discussion rather than the angry way which some choose to do it (although sometimes getting angry is understandable and good even) but some people can be a little bit high and mighty/ easy to judge. This annoys me when it's someone who doesn't even seem to know that they are talking about. 

 

But anyway it was just some thoughts on the issue, this is a good thing for all the LGBT as you say. Hopefully in this game Dorian and Sera's Gay status will make the Bisexual characters (assuming there are any) seem more like actual bisexuals rather than characters who have been opened up for everyone to romance. Not that I think Bioware's bi representation has been all that bad. 

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Thats still half the romances .O.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Oh right I forgot about Sebastian

[mikeymoonshine]

I wonder if they'll release a character kit for all of the companions in due time. I really want to see Dorian's, I have an idea in mind .

 

I seem to remember them saying they would but the whole marketing system seems to have changed since then. They are very much into concept art and cosplay though and that was the point of the character kits so I think we will eventually see them for all the companions and maybe even the advisers too. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Thats still half the romances .O.

And straight men got just as many.  

 

 

Like I said earlier, I can kinda see where some folks were coming from.  I didn't agree though and BioWare is just about anything but biphobic.

[Lucy Glitter]

To light up the mood a little. Found these on tumblr.





<thejosmy65.tumblr.com>

Bless the Mean Girls: Inquisition

Really Viv, Dorian and Scribbles are the plastics. "That's why her head piece is so big ITS FULL OF SECRETS!"

Dorian: "If only you knew how mean Vivienne really is... You'd know that I'm not allowed to wear hoop earrings, right? Yeah! Two years ago she told me hoops earrings were her thing and I wasn't allowed to wear them anymore."

[Trophonius]

I just didn't understand the commotion surrounding David's statement. Erasure of an identity is a serious offense and anyone trying to commit such a thing is worthy of censure. However, that doesn't appear to be the case here. What we have is genuine representation of a character that scarcely exists in video games so it's disappointing when the reaction is more scathing criticism rather than exultation.

[Grieving Natashina]

My first reaction to that reveal was to come in here and post "Princes of the Universe" in celebration.  Call me a sap, but I was literally choked up with happy tears and I couldn't stop smiling about Dorian's reveal as a gay man.  Then I choked up again when the LI announcement was made.   I know a lot of other pan/bi posters that felt much the same way.

 

So I can promise that was a very small and rather vocal section of the bi/pansexual community.  

[Lucy Glitter]

My first reaction to that reveal was to come in here and post "Princes of the Universe" in celebration. Call me a sap, but I was literally choked up with happy tears and I couldn't stop smiling about Dorian's reveal as a gay man. Then I choked up again when the LI announcement was made. I know a lot of other pan/bi posters that felt much the same way.

So I can promise that was a very small and rather vocal section of the bi/pansexual community.

I did, too. Waited up till early morning for it and was soooo overwhelmed. Such great news.

[Statare]

 

*snip*

 

So I can promise that was a very small and rather vocal section of the bi/pansexual community.  

 

 

Can't be emphasized enough. Pointing out erasures is important, but not attacking the few gains that all our queer family in the LGBTQ community get, when largely we are ignored/misrepresented in video games.

 

Sera and Dorian are joyous additions to the DA setting. And that is all that matters.

 

I'm so excited for this game, even if I wont be able to play it for six months after release.... GAAhhh!..... *whimper*

[devSin]

I think some people were offended, and I think it's a valid reaction. "Fully gay" wasn't a great thing to say (and David later clarified what he meant with that phrase). We can all sit here and say how it's so obvious what BioWare meant with this or that statement, but the audience for these sorts of releases is greater than just the people who frequent the forums and follow David on Twitter, and the implication that this character is the "true" gay (as opposed to those half gay or quarter gays from earlier games—false gays, all of them) is real in that portion of the interview.

If that's what the article was referring to, then I think the author missed the point entirely. This has nothing to do with a gay companion and everything to do with BioWare's messaging (which, despite some of the claims here, has often been problematic when it comes to issues of sexuality and gender representation). (I think it also sets up a straw man in attempting to justify the approach to romance in Inquisition—I don't recall ever seeing anyone suggest that the all-bisexual approach was somehow the only viable method of including bisexuals, so arguing that it is deceptive reasoning doesn't really accomplish anything here.)

It doesn't mean the people criticizing the statement are vilifying BioWare or are angry that there will be gay characters and straight characters in addition to bisexual characters. They just read something that was hurtful and/or insulting and decided to challenge it. And I think that's something we should all be able to understand and sympathize with.

[Statare]

 

*snip*

It doesn't mean the people criticizing the statement are vilifying BioWare or are angry that there will be gay characters and straight characters in addition to bisexual characters. They just read something that was hurtful and/or insulting and decided to challenge it. And I think that's something we should all be able to understand and sympathize with.

 

True.

 

But if we can criticize the wording of BioWare and the combined actions of BioWare and BioWare down to word choice regardless of apology, then we can also be skeptical of what the people who are being critical are saying. A lot of it did in fact have to do with characters being gay and not bisexual. Which is a bit problematic too.

 

I was peeved by the word choice in the article myself, at first, granted I followed the dialogue that came after and understood where Gaider was coming from. Others come in with out context. But that's why context is important.

 

Edit: Also, people who were offended have a right to be offended by what he said. I just did not like when the offended by word choice also became offended by a character being gay and not bisexual.

 

2nd edit: (I'm doing this to keep this from getting more posts more off topic, so I hope people read this): I really love when people stand up and say "hey, what you said implied this and was hurtful." Because you are being brave enough to vocalize something you believe in or feel and risk the other person being disrespectful to you again. I believe in dialogue. I believe the only ways we can get over racism, sexism, homophobia and many other things is to talk about them and not silence ourselves and others. What I don't like is when it moves from wanting a person to acknowledge what they said was hurtful (intentionally or otherwise) and starting that dialogue, to seeking some sort of tangible effect. People will make mistakes, but a person is not defined by the worst thing they do (even truer by a relative worst thing in a moment). Dialogue is not a debate and it is never over. What someone says is a lot of times not what they meant. And we have to allow that. Words are messy and that's the problem.

[Grieving Natashina]

I grabbed this from the Twitter thread.  I haven't seen it in here yet, but I felt it was relevant to the general topic:

 

 

David Gaider ‏@davidgaider 

Funny how one question in a community interview where Dorian is mentioned as gay becomes "BioWare made a press release to announce it".

 

[DaySeeker]

I think some people were offended, and I think it's a valid reaction. "Fully gay" wasn't a great thing to say (and David later clarified what he meant with that phrase). We can all sit here and say how it's so obvious what BioWare meant with this or that statement, but the audience for these sorts of releases is greater than just the people who frequent the forums and follow David on Twitter, and the implication that this character is the "true" gay (as opposed to those half gay or quarter gays from earlier games—false gays, all of them) is real in that portion of the interview.

If that's what the article was referring to, then I think the author missed the point entirely. This has nothing to do with a gay companion and everything to do with BioWare's messaging (which, despite some of the claims here, has often been problematic when it comes to issues of sexuality and gender representation). (I think it also sets up a straw man in attempting to justify the approach to romance in Inquisition—I don't recall ever seeing anyone suggest that the all-bisexual approach was somehow the only viable method of including bisexuals, so arguing that it is deceptive reasoning doesn't really accomplish anything here.)

It doesn't mean the people criticizing the statement are vilifying BioWare or are angry that there will be gay characters and straight characters in addition to bisexual characters. They just read something that was hurtful and/or insulting and decided to challenge it. And I think that's something we should all be able to understand and sympathize with.

 

I wish would people would take into account more evidence beyond one sentence to decide if something is insulting or hurtful, or decide that every statement made is somehow aimed at them or their life.  Dorian and Sera being queer characters is good news and it is not about what they are not, but about what they are.  The complaints feel like bullying to me.

 

I'm up for a bisexual debate, but this is not the forum for it, I'll just say bisexuals get whatever romance they want in this game, they can have men or women.  Just because their love interest does not identify the same way they do does not invalidate the romance.

[adorkable-panda]

^Yeah i noticed that too hahah

 

Also, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before but I think it'd be funny if at some point Bioware provided some sort of easter egg where someone will call Dorian Dramatic Hands Mustache Guy, most probably Sera or even the Inquisitor if appropriate hahah I know BIoware has adopted some form of forumbased easter egg on a acouple occasions. 

[Grieving Natashina]

^Yeah i noticed that too hahah

 

Also, I'm not sure if this has been brought up before but I think it'd be funny if at some point Bioware provided some sort of easter egg where someone will call Dorian Dramatic Hands Mustache Guy, most probably Sera or even the Inquisitor if appropriate hahah I know BIoware has adopted some form of forumbased easter egg on a acouple occasions. 

Like "Prothy the Promethean."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Like "Prothy the Promethean Prothean."

Fixed. 

 

This is a Prothean:

Spoiler

 

This is a Promethean:

Spoiler