22176 réponses à ce sujet

[Caramacchiato]

I can't see this being true.  If half of what Fenris said is true Dorian would think it abuse.  If there are other ways of accomplishing the same goal I would think he would be against torture especially after seeing it so abused (killing off slaves, blood feuds).PLus, we haven't yet seen accurate protrayals of blood magic and its consequences.  Merril's clan was destroyed because of it, nature was disrupted, dead were walking, peaceful animals attacked and were corrupted.  Even we players have seen no good come from blood magic.

I don't really trust Fenris' point of view. With him being a slave and all that, his thoughts on magic as a whole are marred by the atrocities committed by the magisters. The only blood mages we've seen (in the games) have been either really stupid or downright evil. Merril, Uldred, Quentin, Every Magister We've Seen, etc. There is one example of a blood mage who's not a complete jerk though: Fallstick (that guy in the comics who leads the Blood Band). There's also possibly Hawke and the Warden.

[Hellion Rex]

Meh, I'd argue that Avernus wasn't evil or stupid.

[Grieving Natashina]

Meh, I'd argue that Avernus wasn't evil or stupid.

I always pegged him as Chaotic Neutral, but not an evil or stupid person.

[Hellion Rex]

I always pegged him as Chaotic Neutral, but not an evil or stupid person.

I think of him as pragmatic in the extreme. He certainly knew his stuff. I wish we could enlist his expertise in regards to the Veil tears.

[Lee80]

I always hoped Avernus would find a cure for the grey warden's slow taint death.  He certainly seemed to have prolonged his own time as a warden.  Ugh, I really wish the whole tainted warden thing wasn't cannon.  I guess there has to be some dark in the world, but doesn't stop me for wishing for kittens and rainbows dammit! 

[myahele]

Oh, so the reason why Dorian was so nonchalant when they rescued Leliana after she was tortured was because it's so common in tevinter? Maybe he's just unfazed?

[Grieving Natashina]

Oh, so the reason why Dorian was so nonchalant when they rescued Leliana after she was tortured was because it's so common in tevinter? Maybe he's just unfazed?

Or maybe because the whole situation is a mess and he's trying to process it all.  We don't know if he ends up reacting to Leliana's torture or not.  At that moment when of all that is going down, it seems like Dorian's main thought is, "How do we get through this alive?"  I wouldn't be surprised if he asked after her later, when they are in a safer place.

[Lee80]

I wonder how many people will try to recreate that scenario?  I would imagine most people will be avoiding sending Leliana anywhere near Redcliffe now.     I have a love hate thing about her.  Some days I really like her, but then she gets all preachy and I want to feed her to a high dragon.  -shrug-  

 

Dorian very well could have been trying to inform her of some important information, like about how they got there so fast.  Plus he actually does seem the type to want to avoid awkward silence and would be in favor of small chat for the sake of it.  

[DaySeeker]

Fenris may be biased, but that doesn't make what he's seen any less true- I'm sure Dorian has seen similar things.  Also, being a slave would put Fenris in a position to see his master in a more true light and at his most depraved.  I am sure there is some set of decorum and facade of morality in Tevinter.  What is it we think Dorian is against if not abuses like Fenris has described?

 

 Avernus did vile experiments on unwilling victims, how is that not evil?

 

On Dorian's reaction to Leiliana- I sensed guilt on feeling he was partially to blame for what happened given he knew the participants.

[myahele]

I wonder how fenris would have been had he not lose his memories? It'll be nice if Dorian mentions Danarius, Fenris or his sister in passing.

[Dr. Doctor]

Oh, so the reason why Dorian was so nonchalant when they rescued Leliana after she was tortured was because it's so common in tevinter? Maybe he's just unfazed?

Or he is freaked out that the man who taught him and who he held in such high esteem is wreaking havoc with a force that threatens to destroy the world? Given that Dorian has a sharp tongue and projects a facade of confidence (or arrogance) most of the time it may be that he deflects those feelings of fear and uncertainty with levity?

As for blood magic, usually it's used to supercharge a user's magical power and judging from what we've seen it's usually used by the Magisters and other members of the upper castes to keep up in the game of one-uppsmanship. Perhaps because Dorian's from one of the original Dreamer's families such measures are looked down upon?

[Sixsmith]

Fenris may be biased, but that doesn't make what he's seen any less true- I'm sure Dorian has seen similar things.  Also, being a slave would put Fenris in a position to see his master in a more true light and at his most depraved.  I am sure there is some set of decorum and facade of morality in Tevinter.  What is it we think Dorian is against if not abuses like Fenris has described?

 

 Avernus did vile experiments on unwilling victims, how is that not evil?

 

On Dorian's reaction to Leiliana- I sensed guilt on feeling he was partially to blame for what happened given he knew the participants.

 

You know, morality is a very tricky thing. It's very subjective. I think I played that DLC, but I don't remember much, since it's been so long.

 

But, regardless, I'm not going to steer this topic into something that could very well lock it. >_>

 

Anyways, I'm pretty sure someone said—I think Gaider—that Dorian didn't approve or was against all the corruption around Tevinter's politics and government, not necessarily the abuse of magic. But more so the way that people have a standing public figure, this perfection that they have to live up to and standards they must follow. They have to hide their entire private lives from the rest of the world to keep their position of power, as well as doing some pretty nasty things to get even higher up. I really think that's what bugged Dorian out; all the corruption and greed and bids for power stifling who he was as an individual and what he wanted to do.

 

I don't think it has anything to do with the abuse of magic. I mean, Dorian practices Necromancy, of all things, which is almost as bad as blood magic, as described by the Circle and the Chantry, so I don't see how it's okay for him to approve of the use of Necromancy and not Blood Magic. If not approve, I assume he'd be indifferent about it. It's magic; it's a tool. Why not use it if you want? Sure we've seen more people use it for wrong than right, but that doesn't mean there's not another use for it. All of my mages were blood mages (my Warden was also a Spirit Healer!), so I may be a bit biased because I also played very good aligned PCs and I intend to do the same with my Inquisitor (though Hawke was a snark and I'm probably going to do the same with my Inquisitor).

 

Also, you have to look at it this way. Dorian, even though he ran away from that life, still very much loves his homeland and its most of its core values, I think. He's had a taste of freedom—he's been free his entire life as a mage. No Circle, no Templars watching his every move, and the freedom to practice his magic as he damn well pleases. I don't see him wanting to ever take that away and I don't think he sees it as the cause of the whole issue with Tevinter's Magocracy. Whether it is or not the root of the problem, I think that's to be determined. It may have already been... I honestly think their use of magic and abuse of it is the cause for how corrupt it is, but we're talking about how Dorian sees it and I don't think Dorian sees it that way. He's an idealist, so he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. That means freedom to practice any form of magic, but a society that isn't corrupted by power that has this idea of perfection looming over everyone. That's a very far fetched ideal, but a guy's gotta dream... right?

 

This is all my opinion, though, and how I see Dorian and his views. I may not agree with them and I actually think it's a little much, but I like stepping away from myself and looking at someone else's viewpoint. I love characters and how they think, especially the trickier ones and the ones that are more fleshed out. But, anyways, I honestly think we'll have to see because, right now, this is all speculation. I love speculation and it preoccupies me, but I really, really want to get to see for myself.

 

In other words, I want my Mustache Man right meow. I can't wait any longer, Bioware.

[Hellion Rex]

Agree with all of that above, but one technicality - he was more than likely in a Tevinter Circle, given his supposed magical prowess. I don't see how he could have achieved suh a powerful talent without attending a Circle.

[Joe25]

Think I found something help use get ready for DAI.

Spoiler

[Sixsmith]

Agree with all of that above, but one technicality - he was more than likely in a Tevinter Circle, given his supposed magical prowess. I don't see how he could have achieved suh a powerful talent without attending a Circle.

 

They have Circles in Tevinter.

 

I just learned something today. @_@

 

Regardless, I doubt the Circles in Tevinter should even be considered Circles, though I should do more reading up on that. I assume he had a lot more freedom than mages in other regions, especially coming from such a privileged and high ranking family. I'd more likely call Tevinter's version of a Magical University (Nugwarts lewl) than a Circle, though I know that's probably the official name.

 

But, of course, that's opinion, especially since I've not read up on how Tevinter Circles actually are. I'll go do that. I'm probably so entirely wrong.

 

 

Think I found something help use get ready for DAI.

Spoiler

 

Oh my God, no. PLEASE. I DON'T NEED ANYMORE GLORIOUS MUSTACHES.

 

You're gonna want to make me twirl Dorian's 'stache so hard. Bioware, BIOWARE, IT NEEDS TO BE TWIRLED.

[Hellion Rex]

Lol, there are 7 Tevinter Circles, however they are ruled entirely by the First Enchanters. Tevinter Templars have no anti magic capabilities and serve Magisters.

[Sixsmith]

Lol, there are 7 Tevinter Circles, however they are ruled entirely by the First Enchanters. Tevinter Templars have no anti magic capabilities and serve Magisters.

 

I wonder how restrictive they are with their mages. I'm honestly assuming not that much, especially mages that come from noble families and Altus, like Dorian. I guess they use their Templars more as guards for the mages rather than guards against the mages. Or maybe they're just playthings. D; That'd be the worst job.

 

But, amg D: there's so much I don't know about Tevinter that I want to, even though I kind of am 'Eeeh,' about Tevinter as a whole. It doesn't seem like that fabulous of a place, especially since there are such obvious things wrong with it.

 

This has gotten out of hand. Someone needs to take Dorian away from me before I go insane. Or just give me DA:I now. D:<

[Lucy Glitter]

Oh, so the reason why Dorian was so nonchalant when they rescued Leliana after she was tortured was because it's so common in tevinter? Maybe he's just unfazed?

 

Well, seeming Leliana is surprised/relieved to see you alive, I think everyone was in a precarious position. From what little we know of his personality, I would say that he was maintaining a less dire atmosphere for himself, perhaps for everyone. Especially seeming the fact that this whole quest has elements that directly affect him. If that makes sense. He also... was just asking for information? I would have asked, myself. Leliana just wants everyone to STFU and get on with it so she can go sleep it off.

[Chrys]

I can't wait to learn more about Tevinter and Dorian's stances about many aspects of it. It would be really great if we also got a mention about Danarius or even Fenris but that's probably asking too much.

 

(And hey. New to the forum, so I had to post on my most anticipated character's thread   )

[Wolfen09]

Oh, so the reason why Dorian was so nonchalant when they rescued Leliana after she was tortured was because it's so common in tevinter? Maybe he's just unfazed?

 

well, given the circumstances i think dorian would be more shocked at that felix dude's state of health (dead) than he would leliana's torturing....

 

on a side note with all the fenris stuff goin round, i have issues with both fenris and anders.  Both are on the extreme ends of their spectrums, and are incredibly adamant in their ways.  I find it very difficult to like characters who can't see past their own prejudices and are so stubborn to the point that i play a mage so i can be the healer to not take anders, and take two rogues so i dont have to take fenris

[Lee80]

I can't wait to learn more about Tevinter and Dorian's stances about many aspects of it. It would be really great if we also got a mention about Danarius or even Fenris but that's probably asking too much.

 

(And hey. New to the forum, so I had to post on my most anticipated character's thread   )

Welcome to the board!

 

I'm really hoping for some mention of Fenris as well, though it'll probably be from a different source then Dorian.  

[Chrys]

Thank you, Lee. I like follow-ups so much I'll be happy even for mentions about characters I disliked, but of course I'm hoping for some more than others.

 

One thing I've been thinking about is that it will probably be more fun to romance Dorian as a mage but my 1st games in DAO and DA2 have been rogues and I'm not sure I want to break the tradition...

[Lee80]

I'm sort of the opposite.  I usually play a mage first, but sort of think a rogue run might be better with the Dorian romance.  I'm sure I'll do both eventually no matter what I decide though.      In fact I may have a hard time romancing anyone but Dorian for a while...so possibly the first 2 playthroughs will be about the D. 

[Ina]

I much prefer romancing mages with non-mages and vice versa especially when I feel such a combination will greatly add to their relationship dynamic. It doesn't always add a great dynamic or make it unique but it's great when it does happen. For example, I romanced Anders with a warrior and I felt it affected/touched Anders a lot more to see a non-mage fight for the mage cause. Similarly, I romanced Fenris with a mage and I felt he grew as a character more because of his conflicting feelings in regards to his feelings for Hawke and his hatred for mages. I didn't feel the other romanceable companions in DAO or DA2 really took advantage of such a class dynamic (that I noticed), so I wasn't as picky on class with others.

 

I plan to romance Dorian as an Elf rogue (maybe warrior, but unlikely) because I really look forward to how both being a non-mage and an elf will go with a Tevinter mage. No doubt romancing him as a mage would bring it's own dimension to the relationship, but it's just not one I feel particularly intrigued by right now. I don't usually romance the same character with different PCs (cos I tend to grow so fond of the original pair that I can't imagine them with anyone else lol), so I'll just watch the youtube videos for any changes to satisfy my curiosity. 

 

I'm probably in a minority on this, though, as most people tend to prefer romancing mages with mages, elfs with elfs and so on and so forth. I guess I'm just a sucker for relationships that cross borders in one way or another. Ah well.