22176 réponses à ce sujet

[ummiehummie]

I think I like his look in the promo poster the most.

[Blue Item]

Are you a minority? If not, please don't tell minorities how and what they should feel, or whether something is demeaning, if you haven't experienced it. 

 

(EDIT: Not saying you can't have your views etc. but try to realise that you do not know what it's like and shouldn't try to in order to further your opinion (which isn't a bad thing or your fault), and take those opinions of the people who it does affect before coming up with a conclusion/opinion, because they definitely have the primary data)

 

I'm bisexual and also have disfigured hands and feet due to getting lucky with amniotic band syndrome (not being sarcastic here, many people have it much worse, lost limbs and significant alteration of facial features), and I have no problem being identified by either characteristic. By your logic I am thus allowed to tell you that hey, maybe you shouldn't tell me how and what I should feel either, yeah?

 

Additionally, how in the world do you support the claim that they don't know what it's like to be part of an ostracized group? If anything I think that is the most insulting thing here, that you assume you automatically know more than this other person you know virtually nothing about, and that your opinion certainly must be superior to theirs. And even if they're not directly part of the ostracized group, that doesn't mean they haven't consulted with others who are about the how they feel on the issue and what the proper handling of it is.

[Lucy Glitter]

I think I like his look in the promo poster the most.

 

I think that's kinda how he looks now, no?

[ummiehummie]

^Not sure.. but I certainly hope so :>

[Ymirr]

Just because we learned he has blue eyes recently doesn't mean they changed it now. David said this back in May:

 

Reposting this might help (an older Ymirr fanart featuring Dorian with blue eyes!)

*can't stop drooling*

Actually changed that one to green after. And his nose... And stuff.

Spoiler

Pardon, haven't been around much as of late.

[Lebanese Dude]

Actually changed that one to green after. And his nose... And stuff.
 
Pardon, haven't been around much as of late.

I was wondering where you despawned to.

[Fredward]

Are you a minority? If not, please don't tell minorities how and what they should feel, or whether something is demeaning, if you haven't experienced it. 

 

(EDIT: Not saying you can't have your views etc. but try to realise that you do not know what it's like and shouldn't try to in order to further your opinion (which isn't a bad thing or your fault), and take those opinions of the people who it does affect before coming up with a conclusion/opinion, because they definitely have the primary data)

 

Yes, twice over in fact. Disabled and bisexual. I am also a racial minority in my country though I would not be considered so from the standard Western view. So yes I do  know what it's like and I have a very interesting vantage point when it comes to minority dynamics. We're not a hivemind for one. One of the problems as I see it as that we ask that we be treated equal yet we have such frayed nerves, understandable all things considered, but it makes us oversensitive in some aspects. Being called 'the gay guy' is not in itself offensive, it is not in itself robbing us of our humanity or making us a label before  a person. All of that DOES happen and I will be the first to point it out when it does but using a salient aspect of a person's being to distinguish them from others is not a form of discrimination, it would happen (and does) whenever the group weight shifts in one direction or another. If an all black group suddenly gained a white member they'd be likely to refer to him as 'the white guy' it's not meant to be derogatory, it is simply something salient about him that distinguishes him from the others. It doesn't make him any less of a person either. Same if a straight man walked into a gay bar, his straightness would make him comment worthy but not INHERENTLY less worthy. Just odd. In my mind it is infitentely more offensive to pretend that difference is not there, to dance around it and avoid it, to treat that person as 'one of our own' because it makes us more comfortable when they're not, not really. You're ignoring all of that individuality, everything that sets them apart. We're all people yes, are we all the same KIND of person? No.

 

Now would it be great if society was a perfect statistical split between all groups? I don't know actually that sounds kinda dull but unless you're telling me that noting that someone is not like everyone else is INHERENTLY offensive I really don't see the problem.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Actually changed that one to green after. And his nose... And stuff.

Spoiler

Pardon, haven't been around much as of late.

 

I just want to take this opportunity to fanboy all over you. Your stuff is ****** amazing.

[Ymirr]

I was wondering where you despawned to.

Not sure where I despawned, the interest dwindled a bit. I was a bit afraid that Dorian would be a character that just "happened" to be from Tevinter, rather than a Tevinter-uh--ian, and stuff revealed sort of enhanced that. I believe we talked about that? Might remember wrong.
My hype came from the Tevinter part, seeing as we can't visit. *Such-sad-face*. But I'm sure I'll find different reasons to like the character, but that gotta wait till the game is in mah hands! 
But yeah, it's been a while since I've done something purely Dorian. Can't think of anything. 

 

 

Thank you Fredward 

[Caramacchiato]

Can we stop talking about the interview thing now? Pretty please? If you want to talk about people being described by their sexuality, do it somewhere else. This thread is too beautiful for such silly arguments.

(also welcome back Ymirr. We've missed your fabulous renditions of Dorian)

[pastabender]

Yeh apologies for any offence caused. I have not framed my argument very well and it is clear we all have very differing opinions/experiences, and a dragon age forum is not the place to discuss them. I'm happy to continue through messages. 

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Is it all but confirmed that Dorian will not be Pro-Tevinter?

 

Dorian will either be the greatest companion for me ... or the biggest disappointment. I got the impression that he dislikes how the Imperium works. That he wants change, and is actually a moral upstanding person.

I was hoping Dorian will be a gray character, but if not gray morality compass - leaning LESS towards altruism, good and decent behavior. Am I likely to be disappointed here? I got this impression but you guys seem more informed.

To put it bluntly, Id prefer if Dorian is gray - but if not - rather more "evil" than "good".

[Lebanese Dude]

Well he probably has multiple shades of them...around 50 or so.

 

No really I suspect he's ideologically different than the other magisters back home but he's STILL a Tevinter mage. Some attributes are ingrained in him.

 

He wants to change AN ENTIRE nation. That reeks of arrogance and self-righteous moral superiority.

 

Those are significantly "negative" traits. He's not out to help the "common" like Sera. He's more interested in the macroscopic changes.

 

At least that's how I interpreted it.

[Ymirr]

Well he probably has multiple shades of them...around 50 or so.

With all the belts and straps he's covered in, I'm sure that's accurate.

[Vita Brevis]

He wants to change AN ENTIRE nation. That reeks of arrogance and self-righteous moral superiority.

One way to put it... But the other - it's naive and kinda idealistic. I think it's arrogant and idealistic in equivalent measure.

 

If he doesn't want to do it the way Anders did - it's not that negative because you can change something without ruining millions of lives, but it takes way more time, careful planning and so on.

[Arvaarad]

I wonder which side Dorian will fall on with blood magic.

Tevinter has really mixed views on the subject. There's the sort of romanticised aspect where all the heroes in their legends practiced it, but on the other hand... a lot of those heroes died doing it.

So apart from the moral judgments, there are some Tevinters who just think blood magic is a bad idea for the caster. There's an excerpt from that point of view in WoT.

Sure, Fenris says all magisters practice it, but his perspective was limited to Danarius and people who wanted to be around Danarius... perhaps not the most accurate sample population.

[ElitePinecone]

One way to put it... But the other - it's naive and kinda idealistic. I think it's arrogant and idealistic in equivalent measure.

 

Yeah. I like this description.

 

Quixotic, even.

[carlo angelo]

Is it all but confirmed that Dorian will not be Pro-Tevinter?

 

Dorian will either be the greatest companion for me ... or the biggest disappointment. I got the impression that he dislikes how the Imperium works. That he wants change, and is actually a moral upstanding person.

I was hoping Dorian will be a gray character, but if not gray morality compass - leaning LESS towards altruism, good and decent behavior. Am I likely to be disappointed here? I got this impression but you guys seem more informed.

To put it bluntly, Id prefer if Dorian is gray - but if not - rather more "evil" than "good".

 

Well, this is my queer characterisation nitpicker here, but if Dorian leans more evil than good, this would be something all too commonplace for queer representation: that queer characters are more apt to be villainous than their heterosexual counterparts, and... there's a lot of that throughout history. I wrote an exegesis which delves into that and seriously- Dorian as an evil character is the last thing we need for gay characters, because there's already so few that are well-rounded and humanised as one of the good  guys and or as protagonists.

 

True, I want him to have rather complex views on things, though, like when I first heard that he's got strong views on blood magic, I thought that he didn't see it as inherently evil, but because its history is rooted in sacrifical victims and hurting people to obtain such power, blood magic is defaulted to evil. But Dorian probably thinks that blood is as natural as water or fire- it's just that the means of harnessing it involve shedding it, and there are better ways of obtaining its properties without perhaps hurting anyone.

[ElitePinecone]

But Dorian probably thinks that blood is as natural as water or fire- it's just that the means of harnessing it involve shedding it, and there are better ways of obtaining its properties without perhaps hurting anyone.

 

From Mike's description I got the impression that Dorian hates blood magic.

 

Plus David already said he's an idealistic character, maybe even noble. I can't see how he'll be evil, or a stereotype.

 

Where are people getting the idea that this could at all be a one-note "evil queer" representation? Do you seriously think David Gaider would write that sort of character, in literally the first chance he's ever had to introduce someone who is unambiguously gay?

[carlo angelo]

From Mike's description I got the impression that Dorian hates blood magic.

 

Plus David already said he's an idealistic character, maybe even noble. I can't see how he'll be evil, or a stereotype.

 

Where are people getting the idea that this could at all be a one-note "evil queer" representation? Do you seriously think David Gaider would write that sort of character, in literally the first chance he's ever had to introduce someone who is unambiguously gay?

 

I don't doubt that Dorian would be good, but I was just explaining how the "evil queer" thing has been done to death. I'm just puzzled as to why someone would want Dorian to lean more evil than good. And true enough, it would be pretty farfetched for Gaider to write Dorian off as a shady character when its the first time we'll have a canonical homosexual companion for Dragon Age.

[daveliam]

From Mike's description I got the impression that Dorian hates blood magic.

 

Plus David already said he's an idealistic character, maybe even noble. I can't see how he'll be evil, or a stereotype.

 

Where are people getting the idea that this could at all be a one-note "evil queer" representation? Do you seriously think David Gaider would write that sort of character, in literally the first chance he's ever had to introduce someone who is unambiguously gay?

 

Yeah, I'm not sure where this is coming from either.  We've seen a few examples of Tevinters who aren't evil, so we know it can happen.  In fact, we've seen an LGBT magister who's pretty damned heroic and good already -- Mae, who is also one of Gaider's favorite characters.  I'm not getting Dorian as bad at all.  I could maybe see morally gray if he's a "the ends justify the means" type of rebel, but I also think we've already seen that in Anders.  I'm expecting Dorian to be chaotic good, if that makes sense.  I'm expecting him to be willing to bend rules for the common good in a rebellious way, but not in a 'gray' way.

[Fredward]

I also want Dorian to be a bit more... nuanced than I'm currently feeling him as. As of now the impression I'm getting is the standard young person using their brash and irreverent nature to hide their deeply idealistic and somewhat fragile soul. He's arrogant in thinking he can enact change on such a broad-scale yes but he wouldn't see it as such because it isn't about him, his feelings are genuine and he really just wants to make the world a better place. Which he would never actually admit to out loud (exceptions include his looooover) since it conflicts with the whole laissez faire fucker personality he projects. If you dust off some of his sparkle you'll find a genuinely caring albeit almost terminally idealstic soul.

 

Which is... mmmmm. Look there are still ways you could with that storywise that could be very, very poignant but I dunno. It's almost a trope. It probably is a trope actually. I wanted there to be more layers yah know? And there might still very well be since this is all spitballing on my part going off of absolutely no real info but... yeah. I'm hoping I'm wrong though.

 

EDIT:

 

Also, evil is a ridiculous word. What you want to avoid is a the evil gay villain stereotype. They are the moustache-swirling, maniacal cackling, one dimensional evil that Dorian would absolutely never at any point have had any chance of being if he was written by Bioware. Seriously.

[ladyofpayne]

He can seduce by one look.

[Hellion Rex]

Ahem.

BAM!

By the Queen

[Ceoldoren]

Ahem.

BAM!

By the Queen

[Reznore57]

So you can see Dorian a bit in the Vivienne trailer , it's not a clear shot but I think he looks better in game .