Aller au contenu

Photo

Dorian discussion and appreciation thread


22176 réponses à ce sujet

#15451
phaonica

phaonica
  • Members
  • 3 435 messages

very rarely do us queer people get an incredible character like Dorian representing us, and sometimes it feels like a slap in the face when people try to erase that part of a character's nature.

 

 

I can understand this--how it could look like an author is trying to remove something negative about the character. Certainly that sentiment does unfortuately exist, but I think there is room to give the benefit of the doubt that m/f fiction with Dorian is less about his being gay being a bad thing, and more about how his being gay prevents their own feeling for him being reciprocated. It can be about expressing one's feelings for an unrequited crush, I think.


  • Dream aime ceci

#15452
NorwegianPirate

NorwegianPirate
  • Members
  • 115 messages

Explain how so? What is the difference between me writing a canonically straight character liking his/her same gender, and a gay character liking the opposite sex?

 

In itself, there is none. If we lived in a society where LGBT people got plenty and decent representation and heterosexuality wasn't treated as being superior to homosexuality, writing a canonically gay character as liking the opposite sex would be no different from the reverse situation. Sadly, this is not the context we have to deal with.

 

I'm a bit too tired to explain this properly. This wasn't meant as an attack. Dorian is a fantastic character, and I understand people wanting to romance him as their preferred gender. I also understand why people who are made to feel like lesser for their sexual orientation would be upset when a beloved character that represents them well is rewritten to have an orientation that is considered to be more "correct", even if implying that is not the intention of the author.


  • Dream, daveliam, d4eaming et 5 autres aiment ceci

#15453
Nejeli

Nejeli
  • Members
  • 94 messages

I don't know. A straight character's sexuality isn't often written as a big, defining part of their character. So it's easy enough to write them swinging the other way and still keep them in-character. Dorian, on the other hand, has been shaped by his sexuality and how it's treated in Tevinter, and his romance reflects it. Fanfiction is fanfiction, but I think that if someone writes him being into women they're ignoring a big influence on why Dorian behaves the way he does, and I don't see how they can keep him in-character.

 

As for double-standards and hypocrisy, I don't think that's a good argument because straight people don't have the same history of people trying to "fix" them. There are unfortunate implications to writing a gay character as straight that just aren't there when writing a straight character as bi or gay. Many readers are going to see it as the writer trying to fix the character, because it's something they've experienced themselves or have seen friends and family experience. It's not fair to those writers that don't intend to imply that, but there it is.

 

That said, I think the outcry on Tumblr over Dorian/femQuisitor is a huge overreaction. I've been following his tag since months before the game was released and I've seen exactly one post about someone wanting a mod to romance him with a female Inquisitor, and it had all of one like, and I guess there is a Dorian/femQuisitor fic somewhere? It's possible there's a huge call for straight-washed Dorian out there, but I haven't seen it at all, and at this point it's just coming across as performance rage.


  • Dream, daveliam, NorwegianPirate et 3 autres aiment ceci

#15454
PrinceLionheart

PrinceLionheart
  • Members
  • 2 597 messages

Dorian had the warm and fuzzies post-game even though I didn't even romance the guy, saying he wants to stay around since I'm his best friend. 


  • Ghrelt aime ceci

#15455
NoRmAnDy-SR2

NoRmAnDy-SR2
  • Members
  • 125 messages

Question about Dorian gift quest.

Spoiler



#15456
Barathos

Barathos
  • Members
  • 293 messages

Question about Dorian gift quest.

Spoiler

 

I think you have to threaten him at first, and if he doesn't give it to you, you have the option to kill him.



#15457
Dream

Dream
  • Members
  • 771 messages

lol anyway, was anyone so excited to romance Dorian that they didn't even realize they committed into a relationship with him? As soon as I got him in my party all I did was talk to him, then at Skyhold I jumped right into his flirts and doing his personal quest. Then, bam, romance quest! Didn't even realize I did his romance quest.



#15458
TheKinkyHuntress

TheKinkyHuntress
  • Members
  • 79 messages

Yeah I haven't actually seen a mod yet but I've seen lots of threats against anyone who does, which is just stupid. I understand the "ownership" that the LGBT community sort of feels toward characters like Dorian but the hypocrisy saddens me. Obviously Dorian would never get with a lady inquisitor anymore than Cullen would hook up with my dude inquisitor but that wouldn't stop me from trying. :P 
 
I think it should actually be celebrated that female players want him so much!


Yeah why not? The Liara, Sera and other f/f romance threads were full of guys. It makes no difference that I'm a female that doesn't choose an orientation. I usually have played f/f romances in past games and a couple of hetero characters as well. I love that my Shepard got to romance both male, female and alien...

Solas was the only character I was slightly interested in romancing even before the reveal for, you know reasons. Then I saw Dorian in-game and decided right then and there to create my second character as a male Inquisitor. I just love Dorian to pieces. And the fact hat his romance is fluffy and blush-inducing romantic is just a cherry on the sundae. I Think Dorian is a fantastic and well-written character and I'm so glad he's there in the game.
  • Dream aime ceci

#15459
Maiafay

Maiafay
  • Members
  • 313 messages
Dorian, on the other hand, has been shaped by his sexuality and how it's treated in Tevinter, and his romance reflects it. Fanfiction is fanfiction, but I think that if someone writes him being into women they're ignoring a big influence on why Dorian behaves the way he does, and I don't see how they can keep him in-character.

 

So Dorian is his sexuality? I just got done arguing on another thread that this is false. His sexuality is an aspect of himself, not his only quality. And that quest is his companion quest, not his romance quest. His sexuality wouldn't be a problem at all in Tevinter if being gay could produce children. That was the core of the disagreement between Dorian and his dad. It was breeding and the betrayal of Dorian's trust. 

 

This issue for me is the threats on Tumblr (not that they are more than growling and barking, but still) over people modding him (if that's even possible anyway given the engine). If the sentiment is that strong over the romance, then I cringe to see how an author would bullied by angry fans who assume said author is "trying to take his gay away" when in fact, their plot might be excellent, or his sexuality not ignored, but just being explored. I say this as a bullied writer myself. I almost abandoned my story in the Dishonored fandom because I had a few people snarl at me for "daring" to make Corvo Bi. "He's not canonically gay" these people said - as if I couldn't possibly have a good reason for writing him that way. 

 

To me, it is a double standard, regardless of representation. Representation shouldn't be some protective sheen on a character preventing anyone from writing him or her in fanfic the way they see fit. Or modding. Fandom art/writing/media is an indulgence that shouldn't be denied. I'm not saying agree with it, of that I'll run around writing Dorian with a female Inquisitor (though it's tempting now just to see if I could make a plausible plotline with that even though I prefer him m/m), but fans screaming NO YOU CAN'T is what's raising my fur here and making me play devil's advocate. I loathe censor, and after being flamed all to hell for a pairing, I'm more sensitive to fan backlash that I feel is just self-entitlement.


  • kracken96 et myahele aiment ceci

#15460
StingingVelvet

StingingVelvet
  • Members
  • 1 116 messages

I was using Vivienne all the time at first because I was playing a pro-chantry, pro-circle human. Dorian quickly won me over however, and I had to start using him most of the time. He never really makes mage freedom an issue, so it was easy to justify. Probably my favorite companion in the game by far. I also loved how he was a proud homosexual but they never made him all about that, it was just something he was, and you could literally tell him you didn't give a toss. That was cool.



#15461
Xetykins

Xetykins
  • Members
  • 2 009 messages

I don't know. A straight character's sexuality isn't often written as a big, defining part of their character. So it's easy enough to write them swinging the other way and still keep them in-character. Dorian, on the other hand, has been shaped by his sexuality and how it's treated in Tevinter, and his romance reflects it. Fanfiction is fanfiction, but I think that if someone writes him being into women they're ignoring a big influence on why Dorian behaves the way he does, and I don't see how they can keep him in-character.
 
As for double-standards and hypocrisy, I don't think that's a good argument because straight people don't have the same history of people trying to "fix" them. There are unfortunate implications to writing a gay character as straight that just aren't there when writing a straight character as bi or gay. Many readers are going to see it as the writer trying to fix the character, because it's something they've experienced themselves or have seen friends and family experience. It's not fair to those writers that don't intend to imply that, but there it is.
 
That said, I think the outcry on Tumblr over Dorian/femQuisitor is a huge overreaction. I've been following his tag since months before the game was released and I've seen exactly one post about someone wanting a mod to romance him with a female Inquisitor, and it had all of one like, and I guess there is a Dorian/femQuisitor fic somewhere? It's possible there's a huge call for straight-washed Dorian out there, but I haven't seen it at all, and at this point it's just coming across as performance rage.


Come now. Is it really surprising fems want to get into dorians pants even through fanfics? He is like.... just so perfectly adorable and gorgeous and so well written.

I'd trade him for cullen in a heartbeat. But having said that, i dont want him any other way. I doubt he would be the way he is if he was made straight. Not that straight is bad ofc but you know what i mean. His life story is what made him the way he is.
  • kracken96 aime ceci

#15462
Barathos

Barathos
  • Members
  • 293 messages

lol anyway, was anyone so excited to romance Dorian that they didn't even realize they committed into a relationship with him? As soon as I got him in my party all I did was talk to him, then at Skyhold I jumped right into his flirts and doing his personal quest. Then, bam, romance quest! Didn't even realize I did his romance quest.

 

I was in the camp of "Let me check all the options, then maybe Dorian."
 

And then his personal quest came along. It really hit home and the fact that he wasn't this annoying-blind-screaming gay guy (or a Cortez where it would be REALLY awkward to romance him) made me just go right into it. On my 2ed playthrough and still havn't romanced Cassandra/Josephine like I planned...


  • Z.Z aime ceci

#15463
Nejeli

Nejeli
  • Members
  • 94 messages

So Dorian is his sexuality? I just got done arguing on another thread that this is false. His sexuality is an aspect of himself, not his only quality. And that quest is his companion quest, not his romance quest. His sexuality wouldn't be a problem at all in Tevinter if being gay could produce children. That was the core of the disagreement between Dorian and his dad. It was breeding and the betrayal of Dorian's trust. 

When I talked about his romance, I wasn't talking about his father's quest. I was talking about it in general. The way he's reluctant to put himself out there emotionally, the way he expresses his feelings through snark and physical actions unless he's angry or upset, the way he wants the Inquisitor to be the first one to talk about relationship things. It was made clear that he wasn't allowed these things in Tevinter, because the only safe option for two men was something quick and fun; a no-ties, one night stand, essentially. The Inquisitor can offer him something more, something he's wanted but been denied, and (or, in the case of femQuisitors) accepts him for who he is; he doesn't know how to deal with it and it shows. Some of Cole's comments about Dorian are really pretty sad. Also, if Dorian liked women at all, it would have been easier to conform to his father's wishes and fit in with Tevinter society. If he didn't have this thing that essentially made him an outsider (his unwillingness to live a lie, of which his attraction to men was a big factor of), if his father hadn't went to the extremes he did to get him to conform (if Dorian was attracted to women his father would probably not have felt the need to go to turn to blood magic, because he'd figure that eventually Dorian would settle down, have kids, and continue his legacy), would he have noticed the extent of Tevinter's corruption? Who's to say. But we know he was privileged, even for a mage in Tevinter, and we know that he didn't even think about slavery until he left Tevinter and saw it through others' eyes.

 

I never said Dorian was his sexuality, nor did I say it was his only quality, so I'm not sure why you're accusing me of it. People who dismiss him as just his sexuality are wrong, and I'll tell them so when I'm not lurking, but I think it's also wrong to deny that it had an influence on shaping who he is, because it obviously did. If someone wants to write him being into women, they'd have to change his backstory. Why does he act this way? Why does he feel this way? Why did his father go to such extremes? What made him see Tevinter's faults? Imo, just saying 'well, he didn't want to marry the woman his father picked' isn't good enough, because I never got the impression that his father had just one specific woman picked out and you can't tell me that all women of standing in Tevinter are evil harpies, (and if an author writes them that way, well, that's a different problem.) People can write it if they want, but it's not something I'll read and, yeah, I'll consider it OOC.* And I've been bullied in real life, I know how harmful it can be and I don't support it at all, but if someone's writing a gay character as bi or straight, they need to realize and be prepared for the baggage that comes with it and how people might react.

 

*For the record, I'm differentiating between Dorian/femQuisitor and, say, Dorian/Josephine or Dorian/Cassandra, because that's the only straight Dorian pair I've seen an interest for. I'd give more leeway to someone who wanted to explore Dorian with one of the female companions, provided they address this sudden attraction to a woman and not just brush it off. It's still not going to be my thing, but people can't help what dynamics grab them. But if they're writing him with the Inquisitor, I literally can't see a good reason to write him with a female Inquisitor instead of a male one.


  • Dream, d4eaming, kracken96 et 7 autres aiment ceci

#15464
NorwegianPirate

NorwegianPirate
  • Members
  • 115 messages

I think you have to threaten him at first, and if he doesn't give it to you, you have the option to kill him.

 

That's right. There's a video of it here, though it shows both options when you agree to do what the merchant asks and when you kill him. 



#15465
Maiafay

Maiafay
  • Members
  • 313 messages

I never said Dorian was his sexuality, nor did I say it was his only quality, so I'm not sure why you're accusing me of it. People who dismiss him as just his sexuality are wrong, and I'll tell them so when I'm not lurking, but I think it's also wrong to deny that it had an influence on shaping who he is, because it obviously did. If someone wants to write him being into women, they'd have to change his backstory. Why does he act this way? Why does he feel this way? Why did his father go to such extremes? What made him see Tevinter's faults? Imo, just saying 'well, he didn't want to marry the woman his father picked' isn't good enough, because I never got the impression that his father had just one specific woman picked out and you can't tell me that all women of standing in Tevinter are evil harpies, (and if an author writes them that way, well, that's a different problem.) People can write it if they want, but it's not something I'll read and, yeah, I'll consider it OOC.* And I've been bullied in real life, I know how harmful it can be and I don't support it at all, but if someone's writing a gay character as bi or straight, they need to realize and be prepared for the baggage that comes with it and how people might react.

 

Fair enough. Since you explained it better, I can understand where you're coming from. It would have to take a talented writer and unusual plot (imo) for Dorian/fem Inquisitor to work without going OOC.



#15466
Bob Walker

Bob Walker
  • Members
  • 371 messages

Anyone tried to recruit Master Dennet with Dorian along? It works just like with Vivienne. It's funny.


  • Wanderlust14 aime ceci

#15467
Akrim_Drak

Akrim_Drak
  • Members
  • 647 messages
Dumb question that's pprobably right in front oofmy nose but how old exactly is Dorian? I get mixed signals. Like he's called a "young man" by several people but I get this like early 30s vibe from him. So confusing.

#15468
TheLastArchivist

TheLastArchivist
  • Members
  • 883 messages

He's certainly very mature for someone who is in his 20's.

 

Paraphrasing the character, he's already been a port in the storm, doesn't like to be toyed with and is a grown man, who can take it (if you try to break up with him). He's obviously had previous experience and has a deep understanding of homosexual relationships (and human psychology) in general.

 

I'd say he's a Scorpio. His proud stance and emotional behaviour, coupled with his impetuous (and rather promiscuous) nature and his sharp tongue point to that.

He also tries to show he's stronger and more mature than he looks, but has a terribly childish side that comes out when you question him too much. 

 

It's no wonder his symbol is a snake. The animal related to temptation, subtlety, desire, seduction and the lower functions of the body (sex being one of them). Also another representation of the dragon, symbol of Tevinter.

 

(The eagle is the snake's rival and represents the higher functions. According to esoterism, both are engaged in perpetual battle for control of the human spirit.)



#15469
(Disgusted noise.)

(Disgusted noise.)
  • Members
  • 1 836 messages

Dumb question that's pprobably right in front oofmy nose but how old exactly is Dorian? I get mixed signals. Like he's called a "young man" by several people but I get this like early 30s vibe from him. So confusing.

He's one of the only characters we don't have any sort of information about his age for. I'd probably say late twenties. Maybe early thirties at most.



#15470
Akrim_Drak

Akrim_Drak
  • Members
  • 647 messages
Late 20s I could see. Just seems way too mature to be like early 20s which I would associate with "young man" age but who knows. I guess to mother Giselle though even Cullen would be like a young man. Heh.

#15471
Chrys

Chrys
  • Members
  • 1 981 messages

Anyone tried to recruit Master Dennet with Dorian along? It works just like with Vivienne. It's funny.

 

What happens?



#15472
Bob Walker

Bob Walker
  • Members
  • 371 messages

What happens?

Dorian start ranting how Tevinter horses are better and blah blah (kinda like Sheldon Cooper). I thought he would screw all the negotiation, but Dennet get so pissed and proud that he decides to prove that Dorian is wrong (or something like that). I heard that Vivienne do the same but using Orlesian horses as comparison.


  • Chrys aime ceci

#15473
Chrys

Chrys
  • Members
  • 1 981 messages

Dorian start ranting how Trevelian horses are better and blah blah (kinda like Sheldon Cooper). I thought he would screw all the negotiation, but Dennet get so pissed and proud that he decides to prove that Dorian is wrong (or something like that). I heard that Vivienne do the same but using Orlesian horses as comparison.

 

Cool, thanks for replying. I'm gonna have to try that some time.



#15474
Bob Walker

Bob Walker
  • Members
  • 371 messages

Cool, thanks for replying. I'm gonna have to try that some time.

Sorry, I wrote Trevelian horses but I meant Tevinter horses, my mistake. I have already edited it.



#15475
Barathos

Barathos
  • Members
  • 293 messages

He's certainly very mature for someone who is in his 20's.

 

Paraphrasing the character, he's already been a port in the storm, doesn't like to be toyed with and is a grown man, who can take it (if you try to break up with him). He's obviously had previous experience and has a deep understanding of homosexual relationships (and human psychology) in general.

 

I'd say he's a Scorpio. His proud stance and emotional behaviour, coupled with his impetuous (and rather promiscuous) nature and his sharp tongue point to that.

He also tries to show he's stronger and more mature than he looks, but has a terribly childish side that comes out when you question him too much. 

 

It's no wonder his symbol is a snake. The animal related to temptation, subtlety, desire, seduction and the lower functions of the body (sex being one of them). Also another representation of the dragon, symbol of Tevinter.

 

(The eagle is the snake's rival and represents the higher functions. According to esoterism, both are engaged in perpetual battle for control of the human spirit.)

The snake also appears in Vivienne's as well. I believe it mostly represents magic and how they deal with it. Dorian is constantly being threatened by it and Vivienne is holding it by the tail, arrogantly, putting on a show that she has control over it but as some people might know, hold a snake by the tail is incredibly dangerous.