22176 réponses à ce sujet

[Dirgegun]

*snip*

 

 

There's always that one person. 

[Dirgegun]

Ah some of the mangas are particularly bad at this, so bad (and it is the worst ones that often get animated. Probably because sex sells, and involved plots are harder and more expensive to put to film, which just makes the entire thing worse). The lit, not always so. But the good ones rarely focus on the romance over plot, (farewell my concubine, king and the clown not romance stories at all, more like depression central and classical classism. Maurice a social commentary. 2013 a zombie story). The rest, trashy romance novels at best (know any good English ones? Most of the better ones I've found are asian language ones).

 

I wonder if whoever wrote the banter read too much generic BL lit. Because that is what it felt like to me. It fits neatly into particular tropes often found in the genre. I snickered at it, more for finding BL in a Bioware game (wth, wth). But honestly I agree, it does the genre no good, if it wants to move forward to better things. (Animated better stories damn it! They are out there!)

 

But I digress. Overall I just find the romances more removed and the villain more dilute in DAI. The vast maps are fun though. I play this game for picking elfroot, not for best plot.

 

I actually didn't mind the plot, myself. I enjoyed it, in fact. The only problem I had was with Iron Bull and how he treats his romantic relationships. 

 

Anyway! I don't know any English books with those kinds of relationships as a prominent focus. I'm not sure if I should consider that regrettable or not, considering my past experiences with literature involving same sex relationships. D: 

 

Edit: Actually, if we want to talk comics, I will forever recommend the issue where Northstar marries his boyfriend. 

[InstantNoodlez]

Wait, isn't that statement itself sexist?

I think it is more of a testament on how badly written many heroines of many a stories and romance stories really are.

Just bad writing all around. Yes, even you, Jane Austen.

[InstantNoodlez]

I actually didn't mind the plot, myself. I enjoyed it, in fact. The only problem I had was with Iron Bull and how he treats his romantic relationships. 

 

Anyway! I don't know any English books with those kinds of relationships as a prominent focus. I'm not sure if I should consider that regrettable or not, considering my past experiences with literature involving same sex relationships. D: 

 

I minded the plot more than the relationship. Because the lack of plot, the relationship got more awkward.

 

Fortunately I'd say you are saving yourself over wanting to stab your own eyes out with a spork. Untold horrors of logic and grammar and anatomy some of these things are. Unfortunately I'd say you are missing out on some really nicely written stories, well researched labours of love. Too bad no one is translating. Too much work, too difficult. Personally I have not found many original English books or just online novels in the genre that can be considered good.

[Dirgegun]

On a much more pleasant Dorian related topic, does anyone have any Dorian/Inquisitor headcanons? I would love to read them if so.

[ABC]

i see there is no winning here. very well i understand people here find it abusive and offensive and it is your right if you feel so.

 

 

irl i'm a bottom and my bf and i often throw jokes around that are MUCH worse than what bull says to dorian so i could think a few dozen ways dorian could handle bull's jabs. i find the only way to stop bottom shaming is not hiding it or shying away but owning it like you should. it is yours, you enjoy it and there is nothing anybody can do about it. if people think you less of a man, it is their opinion, you know better.

 

i know i would feel a bit ashamed if i would fall for such a stereotypical alpha male that goes around bragging about it, but that is more the question of dignity, so it is  surprising to me is that dorian doesn't reply. he can ceirtanly take care of any verbal abuse you throw at him otherwise.

 

in conclusion, i do not think this is about bottom shaming, abuse, or anything of the sort. i think dorian has problem with bull being loud, alpha, qunari-anthithesis of men in tevinter, so he is still coming to terms with being with someone you would not otherwise imagine yourself with. but it doesn't stop him from "staying in south" for bull in the end, whereas it seems inquisitor has to work hard not to let dorian move away.

[Wanderlust14]

i see there is no winning here. very well i understand people here find it abusive and offensive and it is your right if you feel so.

 

 

irl i'm a bottom and my bf and i often throw jokes around that are MUCH worse than what bull says to dorian so i could think a few dozen ways dorian could handle bull's jabs. i find the only way to stop bottom shaming is not hiding it or shying away but owning it like you should. it is yours, you enjoy it and there is nothing anybody can do about it. if people think you less of a man, it is their opinion, you know better.

 

i know i would feel a bit ashamed if i would fall for such a stereotypical alpha male that goes around bragging about it, but that is more the question of dignity, so it is  surprising to me is that dorian doesn't reply. he can ceirtanly take care of any verbal abuse you throw at him otherwise.

 

in conclusion, i do not think this is about bottom shaming, abuse, or anything of the sort. i think dorian has problem with bull being loud, alpha, qunari-anthithesis of men in tevinter, so he is still coming to terms with being with someone you would not otherwise imagine yourself with. but it doesn't stop him from "staying in south" for bull in the end, whereas it seems inquisitor has to work hard not to let dorian move away.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

On a much more pleasant Dorian related topic, does anyone have any Dorian/Inquisitor headcanons? I would love to read them if so.

As for head canons, I picture Dorian as being quite the bookworm, so I see him being late to things, both because it is fashionable and because he gets caught up in what he is reading. He also has a tendency of leaving his books around the Inquisitor's room. 

[Vita Brevis]

irl i'm a bottom and my bf and i often throw jokes around that are MUCH worse than what bull says to dorian so i could think a few dozen ways dorian could handle bull's jabs.

One can call his friend or lover anything if that person is ok with that. But here we have a different story.

I don't find most of their interaction offensive, but Dorian's reaction here I don't like. Because it's clearly no fun to him.

 

 so it is  surprising to me is that dorian doesn't reply. he can ceirtanly take care of any verbal abuse you throw at him otherwise.

You don't quite understand his character. Like the Bull himself said once, the thing is - he cares. About everything. About how people perceive him, what they think about him and there's a certain point where he can no longer deflect something with that "humor" (which is not humor at all). It's very clearly shown when Cole pokes him and Vivienne. Vivienne doesn't change her attitude even irritated. While Dorian... seems so freaking lost and helpless, he even begs the others to stop Cole.

So no, his bravado means nothing and it all still get to him.

[Call Me Jord]

Did Dorian's quest with is Father for the second time, does it end well if you get them to actually talk instead of the "Why the hell did we come here, let's just go back to Skyhold!" approach?

 

Also I felt really bad asking Dorian to explain when I said "The company of Men?". That's probably because of Dorian and his Voice Actor's performance during that whole scene, all that locked up Rage/Anger just finally getting out, which is probably why it made me feel bad.

 

I noticed there were like, 3/4 responses after he explains when you ask him to explain about the company of men thing, so hopefully one of those responses is a good one.

[InstantNoodlez]

i think dorian has problem with bull being loud, alpha, qunari-anthithesis of men in tevinter, so he is still coming to terms with being with someone you would not otherwise imagine yourself with.

 

So much this. Bull is a very different person with a very different original culture and adopted culture than the people Dorian usually associates with. I think it is as much his aristocratic sensibilities as his past bad experience coming out to his parents/anything else that makes him hmm and haa around the subject. Though the writing could have gone into more depth.

 

I dislike public displays of affection. I don't even hold hands. My bf is clingy as hell. It is as much the family upbringing as the culture of where we grew up. And we both want our way. Doesn't make either of us disrespectful or domineering over the other.

 

For head canon, I am still looking for the bathing facilities of Skyhold. Dorian must spend more time than say Blackwall or Bull in there. And where is Dorian's room anyway? And will no one clean the downstairs library with all the cobwebs? DLC maybe?

[Wanderlust14]

Did Dorian's quest with is Father for the second time, does it end well if you get them to actually talk instead of the "Why the hell did we come here, let's just go back to Skyhold!" approach?

 

Also I felt really bad asking Dorian to explain when I said "The company of Men?". That's probably because of Dorian and his Voice Actor's performance during that whole scene, all that locked up Rage/Anger just finally getting out, which is probably why it made me feel bad.

 

I noticed there were like, 3/4 responses after he explains when you ask him to explain about the company of men thing, so hopefully one of those responses is a good one.

Yes, it is actually a pretty sweet ending and I would definitely recommend trying it. 

[Chrys]

Did Dorian's quest with is Father for the second time, does it end well if you get them to actually talk instead of the "Why the hell did we come here, let's just go back to Skyhold!" approach?
 
Also I felt really bad asking Dorian to explain when I said "The company of Men?". That's probably because of Dorian and his Voice Actor's performance during that whole scene, all that locked up Rage/Anger just finally getting out, which is probably why it made me feel bad.
 
I noticed there were like, 3/4 responses after he explains when you ask him to explain about the company of men thing, so hopefully one of those responses is a good one.

Very mild spoiler:

Spoiler

Yes, it ends much better.

Yeah, I dislike that question since his meaning is so obvious, but it think it's worth it for the follow-up. Most of Dorian's responses to your reaction are really great.

[ABC]

 

You don't quite understand his character. Like the Bull himself said once, the thing is - he cares. About everything. About how people perceive him, what they think about him and there's a certain point where he can no longer deflect something with that "humor" (which is not humor at all). It's very clearly shown when Cole pokes him and Vivienne. Vivienne doesn't change her attitude even irritated. While Dorian... seems so just freaking lost and helpless, he even begs the others to stop Cole.

So no, his bravado means nothing and it all still get to him.

so can i say that implication here is that bull is (ab)using dorians insecurities and/or doesn't care for him? i didn't have this impression.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

true. but just to be clear- i agree there is some bottom-shaming game going here (at least it can be interpreted like that), that was obviously meant to be funny even if eye-rolling inducing. it did fly over my head since i (mostly i guess) came to terms with myself and i see this dorian situation somewhat differently.

[Wanderlust14]

So much this. Bull is a very different person with a very different original culture and adopted culture than the people Dorian usually associates with. I think it is as much his aristocratic sensibilities as his past bad experience coming out to his parents/anything else that makes him hmm and haa around the subject. Though the writing could have gone into more depth.

 

I dislike public displays of affection. I don't even hold hands. My bf is clingy as hell. It is as much the family upbringing as the culture of where we grew up. And we both want our way. Doesn't make either of us disrespectful or domineering over the other.

 

For head canon, I am still looking for the bathing facilities of Skyhold. Dorian must spend more time than say Blackwall or Bull in there. And where is Dorian's room anyway? And will no one clean the downstairs library with all the cobwebs? DLC maybe?

If one person is very uncomfortable with something, it is polite to stop and find a compromise that works for both. Bull doesn't do that, he just does what he wishes no matter the other person's comfort level, but perhaps we should stop hijacking poor Dorian's thread about this. There is obviously strong opinions on both sides. 
To make up for that: head canon! Dorian likes grapes (seriously, grapes and alcohol are the two foods he ever mentions, he mentions grapes a surprisingly large amount)

[Hazegurl]

A disturbing amount of BL literature I've read, manga or otherwise, seems to involved rape as a mechanic for one of the characters to discover that they are gay, dicover they have feelings for their rapist, or simply to get the two characters in question together, and that is a trend that writers need to be called out on. I question any relationship that is written in a way that comes across as abusive and is treated like something that should just be accepted. :/

I agree completely. I've read quite a few rape BL and while I don't mind it. I find that I am drawn more and more to non rape related stories. I do love the fact that many new BL mangas are leaving the whole rape troupe behind. I even read a few that dealt with rape in a very serious manner where there was zero love between the rapist and victim. Even an old jewel where the victim kills his rapist and falls for the man who was trying to help him cope. The victim suffers from all sorts of mental issues as a result.

 

sigh I doubt a classic like "A Cruel God reigns" will ever get animated.

 

As for Dorian and Bull. I probably would have cringed throughout their banter.  Is there a punch Bull option?

[Call Me Jord]

Very mild spoiler:

Spoiler

Yes, it ends much better.

Yeah, I dislike that question since his meaning is so obvious, but it think it's worth it for the follow-up. Most of Dorian's responses to your reaction are really great.

 

Yeah, it definitely screwed me up with how straight-forward his response was. I was just hoping for a response to what he says along the lines of "Who gives a Makers damn what company you prefer?" sort of approach. But now that I think about it, thats probably handled with how you just accept him for who he is, it doesn't need an actual vocal acknowledgement. So now I just feel silly.

 

Yes, it is actually a pretty sweet ending and I would definitely recommend trying it. 

 

That's good to know, thanks!

[TheLastArchivist]

Dorian is a dear.  It's impossible to get mad at him.

[InstantNoodlez]

I think the reason Dorian - Bull interaction is the way it is, is both due to cultural shock, class differences, species differences, and personality differences.

 

Bull has no issue talking about his sex life. Bull cares a lot less about what other people say. The things that haunt him came from bloodied battlefields dictated by other men and endless corpses died in pointlessness.

Dorian is the opposite. Surrounded by social expectations was he raised, and these very expectations had shaped him even as he chafed at them. He is uncomfortable with talking about both details of his private life. He does not appreciate Bull's lack of tact. He is very much still not fully sure what is going on.

 

Even by the end of the game, their relationship is still far from matured. They still have to adjust to a lot of things about each other, amidst their changing roles in life that joining the Inquisition has brought about. They still have a lot more talking and attempts at mutual understanding to do. I see them as embarking on a possible relationship by end game. That or go their separate ways. Where Bioware will take this, or Inquisitor and Dorian, or Inquisitior and Bull, who knows? Probably handwaved away into obscurity as we change protagonist again.

[ABC]

And where is Dorian's room anyway? And will no one clean the downstairs library with all the cobwebs? DLC maybe?

 

yes please! i kind of disliked all the talks were in the library, the raven's noise gets really grating after a while. i was wondering why no one is using that cool, cool library when i was at the skyhold first i was surprised i did not find him there.

[InstantNoodlez]

Also is Dorian mildly alcoholic?

 

Is Dorian the Tony Stark of this Inquisition?

[Reznore57]

yes please! i kind of disliked all the talks were in the library, the raven's noise gets really grating after a while. i was wondering why no one is using that cool, cool library when i was at the skyhold first i was surprised i did not find him there.

 

Yeah also it was really close to the booze room .You'd think Dorian would enjoy that.

He probably doesn't feel like dealing with the dust and cobwebs.

[Wanderlust14]

Also is Dorian mildly alcoholic?

 

Is the Tony Stark of this Inquisition?

Given how even the Inquisitor will tell Dorian at one point, "Don't get drunk before..." and Josephine bans him from the wine cellar, I think that may be closer to canon than head canon. 

[TheLastArchivist]

Is Dorian the Tony Stark of this Inquisition?

Seems like it.  

[Birdy]

I think this goes here too.  Hi from the Solas Recovery Wing!!    

[InstantNoodlez]

I think this goes here too.  Hi from the Solas Recovery Wing!!    

Damn this never happens in my playthroughs!