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[Willowhugger]

But people don't see that because there is a boat load of projection when it comes to gay characters in media. People tend to take any acknowledgement that a character is gay and truncate a character to being "just gay," no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary. It's just confirmation bias colored with heterosexism or even internalized homophobia depending on who it comes from.

 

The quest is meant to INVOKE Real-Life concerns, however. Just as Days of Future Past is supposed to invoke the Holocaust at points, both comic and movie. The thing is, I don't think Dorian is "too gay." I think he's a character who just happens to BE gay. I think he's a delightfully written character who is awesome and has an amazingly fun storyline. I think he shows why Tevinter is not beyond redemption either.

I disagree with your interpretation of his story, however, because of numerous reasons. Not the least because religion is not the only source of homophobia nor is gay men being encouraged to stay closested for social reasons a thing unique to fantasy. I don't think Dorian is limited by his sexuality. I was just offering an opinion that I think it might have been better to go a different way with his quest.

 

I have no intention of beating a dead horse, though, even if I'm new to this thread.

I admit, on my end, I prefer to see stories of gay men and women who are happy without their sexuality being a source of angst due to society. That's a preference, though, and don't think I'm not happy seeing a gay main character who is a man.

[Rannik]

I guess if his portrayal had a good impact on at least some gay players then that's all that matters, regardless of some of our views on him

 

And here I was thinking videogames were entertaintment when they're, apparently, some kind of therapy.

[London]

Well it's good to note you can just say you're gay, thinking that would make a good argument... Whatever. If you are indeed gay, then you're even worse. So which is it? Str8 homophobe going for lame "I have gay friends and they're ok with me voting they have less rights then a human" or in this case "I'm gay and he is too effeminate so a cliche" nonsense? Or, self hating gay going for "he's not str8 acting enough... gives us a bad rep" idiocy? Congrats in both cases.



Again with the veiled "he's too effeminate" nonsense. "Too gay in the classical sense"... really? Just say you hate the "icky gay" and be done with it. Sheesh.

First, I mentioned I am gay as someone commented before that they noticed that it seemed that mostly gay men didn't like this character, which was followed by people who disagreed with the observation. Not liking this character does not make me any more self-hating then people who find Jack on Will and Grace annoying (I am one of those, too.). It's quite simplistic to conclude that just because someone is gay, they have to like all gay characters. I obviously support gay characters (I like Cortez) but don't like this one.

It's fine people like this character. Overall it's good as it shows that people can have a positive reaction that character. But it feels like this took the "safe" route by writing an over the top character that is more a caricature than a person that makes it easier for people to like him. And his quest to me was almost an "introduction to gay people for straight people." (I actually took an Introduction to homosexuality class in college, however absurd, that had these scenerios.) I mean this day and age most of the public views gay conversion therapy as absurd. To me mentioning it here added to the absurdity as well. It's almost like the same people who found Anders offensive liked the gay prostitute in DA2 as the prostitute was also over the top and not really written like an actual person.

(Also please stop with the personal attacks. This is a discussion forum and I have not thrown out insults and accusations at anyone who likes this character and would prefer the same courtesy.)

[Willowhugger]

And here I was thinking videogames were entertaintment when they're, apparently, some kind of therapy.

 

Video games are an artform.

They can be both mindless mind-candy or they can be deep storytelling about something important.

Dragon Age is in the middle.

 

 

It's almost like the same people who found Anders offensive liked the gay prostitute in DA2 as the prostitute was also over the top and not really written like an actual person.

I think Dorian is too dashing to be a effeminate gay man like Jack.

 

If he WASN'T gay, people would think he was just a dashing Spainard like Indigo Montoya.

Because he is gay, they act like he's camp.

In fact, both Zevran and Dorian are kind of funny because in many parts of the world, homosexuality aside, they'd be the definition of machismo.

[Rannik]

Video games are an artform.

 
[citation needed]

Or, self hating gay going for "he's not str8 acting enough... gives us a bad rep" idiocy?

Ahh yes, self hate...

We have dismmised that claim.

[London]

I guess he is dashing to some. I just view the same behavior as obnoxious.

[Willowhugger]

I guess he is dashing to some. I just view the same behavior as obnoxious.

 

I know people like Dorian in the real world.

The really-really rich people who have been rich for at least three generations.

 

They're less and less in existence but they're a gigantic bore in real life, even when they're not jerks.

 

They come off as very obnoxious without intending to.

 

So, I guess, good writing!

[Gaesesagai]

*snip*

(Also please stop with the personal attacks. This is a discussion forum and I have not thrown out insults and accusations at anyone who likes this character and would prefer the same courtesy.)

 

So you want to set aside precisely the point, which, by the way, was exactly why you "don't like" this character. Considering the flimsy pseudo-arguments you brought up, I'd say my observation was spot on.

As for personal attacks, it's funny really. Someone questioning you or your motivations, does not necessarily mean a personal attack. You can't pull that card and avoid people commenting on your clever snide remarks.

That being said, I'll step down from this convo, it's pointless.

[Gaesesagai]

And here I was thinking videogames were entertaintment when they're, apparently, some kind of therapy.

 

Entertainment is being used constantly and has always been used to further social progress, ideals, truth, etc. For people who have a bit of education, this is a familiar notion, seeing as how there's plenty of examples, starting from ancient society to the modern day. You can always use wikipedia to get a quick intro to this.

 

Personally I think they did a great job with DAI. It manages to include a large spectrum of diversity, without getting in your face about it in the slightest. Giving how "sensitive" some people are, especially when it comes to "teh gay", this is one amazingly progressive and ground breaking piece of entertainment. Though I am one of those who considers that at least some video games can be easily and objectively considered art.

[London]

You accused me of being self-hating and know nothing about me. You went on to say that I'm worse than the people you called homophobes. That isn't questioning motivations, it's an attack.

[Gaesesagai]

Back to important stuff...

 

 

And this... 

 

Not my pics, just googled Dorian

[Rannik]

Entertainment is being used constantly and has always been used to further social progress, ideals, truth, etc. For people who have a bit of education, this is a familiar notion, seeing as how there's plenty of examples, starting from ancient society to the modern day. You can always use wikipedia to get a quick intro to this.

Please do give examples of those, because I've yet to see evidence of this even though plenty of people love to repeat it in hopes it becomes truth.

Don't simply ask me to care about your or the psicology hivemind's opinion, that's not science.
 
Also:

For people who have a bit of education, this is a familiar notion

 
Stay respectful kiddo, you're going nowhere with that attitude.
 
Especially on the Internet since you know absolutely nothing about the people you're communicating with.

[Maiafay]

It's fine people like this character. Overall it's good as it shows that people can have a positive reaction that character. But it feels like this took the "safe" route by writing an over the top character that is more a caricature than a person that makes it easier for people to like him.

Caricatures are exaggerated personalities that are as shallow as a mud puddle on flat concrete. A caricature's voice doesn't break with genuine emotion during a conversation with another character when prodded about his father. A caricature wouldn't hide their pain behind sarcasm and other defensive behaviors. If you romance this so-called caricature and then tell him you want to keep it "fun" he replies with snark, but his bent shoulders and hasty gathering of his clothing is his way of maintaining whatever precious little dignity he has left.

And then as I said before, it's one Tevinter man standing for his people against an enemy that many magisters covertly support - even if only in certain circles. Inaction is Tevinter's sin here, but Dorian at least tries to make amends by standing by the Inquisitor's side and actively trying to do everything in his power to bring down Corry boy.

Yeah, what a shallow character.

And notice that I not insulting or making personal attacks. I'm simply taking a statement I disagree with - vehemently - and explaining my reasons for disagreeing. You're not seeing the shades of his character. You seem to be only focused on one.

[Wanderlust14]

Geeze, how did we get the trolls today?

 

I am with Gaesesagai

(cut for size)

Spoiler

 

by Mistytang http://mistytang.deviantart.com/

[London]

I can see how you disagree and I have completed the romance and know that there are supposed to be layers to the character. Still, his every day behavior is annoying to me nonetheless and overshadows the 10 minutes of content where he would show another side. The next scene it would be back to commenting on how people dress or decorate, or complimenting himself, or sashaying past Cassandra while I talk to her with some snark.

[Wanderlust14]

I can see how you disagree and I have completed the romance and know that there are supposed to be layers to the character. Still, his every day behavior is annoying to me nonetheless and overshadows the 10 minutes of content where he would show another side. The next scene it would be back to commenting on how people dress or decorate, or complimenting himself, or sashaying past Cassandra while I talk to her with some snark.

Cool, sorry you feel that way. Most of the people here though like him. That is why we are posting on the Dorian discussion and appreciation thread. You aren't going to convince people that he is some terrible character, especially since the two polls that just went around on the forum put him as the number one favorite character in the series and in the bottom five of least favorite character in the series. 

[London]

I'm not trying to convince anyone or anything. I was just adding my opinion since it's also a discussion thread. I'm not personally invested in which characters people like or hate - it's a personal decision.

[Wanderlust14]

I'm not trying to convince anyone or anything. I was just adding my opinion since it's also a discussion thread. I'm not personally invested in which characters people like or hate - it's a personal decision.

Cool, I am glad we discussed this, so lets get back on topic on the Dorian Discussion AND appreciation thread (it is both, not one or the other).

Spoiler

 

By Merwild http://merwild.deviantart.com/

For the person who was asking about more Inquisitor and Dorian pictures, not mine, since I am really awful at art

[Freedheart]

"Is it like jousting?"  lol  And, yes, there was cheering, cheeky Dorian 

[5ubzer0]

I just completed the Fade with a romanced Dorian and found it very sweet how upset he gets thinking he had lost the inquisitor forever.
 
So what is his biggest fear, namely temptation, about? While he seems ambitious, he doesn't strike me as someone who's particularly power-hungry. He also seems too committed to the relationship to cheat. So what might tempt him?

[Gaesesagai]

I just completed the Fade with a romanced Dorian and found it very sweet how upset he gets thinking he had lost the inquisitor forever.
 
So what is his biggest fear, namely temptation, about? While he seems ambitious, he doesn't strike me as someone who's particularly power-hungry. He also seems too committed to the relationship to cheat. So what might tempt him?

 

Throughout the game, he makes a point several times about how some of his countrymen would easily follow Corypheus or agree with Corypheus about how a glorious Tevinter should be. In his personal quest, when he meets his father he says he was taught blood magic was the last resort of a weak mind (not even close to quoting, but it's something along those lines). He doesn't seem to have a problem with blood magic, but rather with the "you always need more" to get the power you want and whatnot (which he comments on at a different time) and the subsequent abuse that so oftenly follows the use of blood magic.

Overall I got the impression that he's worried about the temptation power represents. Power as a mage, as a blood mage if the case, as a tevinter nobleman, etc. I think his biggest fear is that he would become the very thing he criticizes. He's constantly striving to do the right thing, to fix Tevinter's image outside it, to help people, etc, but at the end of the day, despite all that I think he's still afraid he might fail and become the stereotypical tevinter evil mage (which is also why I think he is so shaken about Corypheus and his revelations at Haven fight).

[Draining Dragon]

Out of curiosity, does Dorian have any character flaws whatsoever?

I can't think of any.

[FantiSci]

I just completed the Fade with a romanced Dorian and found it very sweet how upset he gets thinking he had lost the inquisitor forever.
 
So what is his biggest fear, namely temptation, about? While he seems ambitious, he doesn't strike me as someone who's particularly power-hungry. He also seems too committed to the relationship to cheat. So what might tempt him?

 

I agree with Gaesesagai - Dorian's learned the hard way that even a man of principle may not be able to resist a short cut, or the temptation to change anything they find inconvenient or undesirable. Both of Dorian's father-figures caved to temptation, despite being men he looked up to and respected; after that, he'd be far more aware of the danger and power of temptation. Imagine Dorian found a way to remake Tevinter overnight into the kind of country he thought it should be, without any immediately obvious catch, but he'd have to sacrifice five people. Would he be able to resist, or would he find a way to justify murder ("well, Skyhold's got a dungeon full of people we're going to decapitate anyway, and they will be the very last blood sacrifices...) and steamrollering over the free will of millions ("They've made a pig's ear of things and refuse to change, plus they're harming other people - time for something drastic")?

 

There's also the fact that Dorian is nosy, and vulnerable to a Pandora's box scenario. He reads constantly, even books he clearly hates. In the Hushed Whispers quest, he's curious about the red lyrium, despite having a pretty good idea of its lethal nature. He quizzes Leliana on what exactly is going in the the warped world they find themselves in, despite the fact that he knows she's five minutes after being tortured. In a romance, Dorian keeps pushing you for answers - are we real lovers, will you want me forever, do you believe we can survive this? - even when he's fairly sure he's setting himself up for heartache. Dorian wants to know things. There doesn't seem to be any malice or even purpose to that knowledge, he just likes to have it. He was one of the researchers on Alexius' time magic (and was apparently able to make use of it successfully, given the nature of Dorian's Focus spell), and we saw how that worked out. The temptation of learning more, coupled with his existing power and skill, might lead to him blundering into disaster - even if that was never his intention.

[FantiSci]

Out of curiosity, does Dorian have any character flaws whatsoever?

I can't think of any.

 

Arrogance, insensitivity and possibly insecurity. They're mitigated by the fact that of all the companions, he's one of the quickest to apologise when he realises he's in the wrong. Quite a number of people note that he's not as anti-slavery as he should be, though he seems to be in the process of adjusting his viewpoint. The insecurity is mostly understandable and sympathetic, but I suppose you could make a case for Dorian having a bad habit of trying to "push" the Inquisitor into proving his devotion.

[Hazegurl]

I personally don't see any of the "bi" characters as bi. I see each play through as an alternate world where things are just simply different, including relationships.  Playing as a Male Shepard for three games, I've always seen Kaidan as gay. He talks about some girl at biotic camp but he never mentions having a relationship beyond him protecting her, he even flat out states that nothing happened. Calling her beautiful doesn't mean he's into women. In ME2, the entire meeting plays out like Shep and Kaidan had something there, not saying they hooked up but the meeting was emotional and as a male Shep you can play it as such. So it's no surprise to me that Kaidan will confess in ME3. For all he knows they are all going to die soon and Kaidan is right to bring up "Have you ever seen me with a woman." so I don't see how he's converted to being gay.

 

As for DA2, once again, never saw anyone as gay, straight, or bi. I liked that you could romance them as people and see if they like you without them telling you what gender they prefer.  However, I wasn't disappointed by Dorian either.  IMO, as long as the romance and character development is good, then I don't care about the sexuality.