22176 réponses à ce sujet

[fiveforchaos]

Do you happen to have a link to what he said?  I think some context might be missing.

Oh context is definitely missing, I've been having a terrible time finding old quotes, even though I distinctly remember discussing them and seeing other people discussing them when they were first posted. I hate to post false information to the forums, which is why I usually try my best to put a disclaimer up, but if it's relevant to the discussion I like to at least mention it so that someone can either correct me or find the original source I was unable to locate. But you're right, this particular issue might cause some uproar and pointing of fingers, so I'll delete it until I can find the original source. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I've heard several people now say that Gaider said he didn't favor NPC romances, but it's one of those things that I see people say and never see a link to. 

[ElitePinecone]

I didn't think there was much hint yet.

 

Dorian, Warden, Iron Bull and Solas are all unclaimed, right? Isn't pretty much everyone else tied to a writer now?

 

Iron Bull is being written by Patrick Weekes.

 

As for DHMG, I'm thinking it's Sheryl, but there's a chance we'll never find out. She might also be writing the Warden.

 

Many of the writers don't really like talking about their work (especially when the final character we see is also a product of artists, animators, cinematics people, the voice actor) and others don't want to confirm anything because the characters might be pidgeonholed as "a typical [Writer X]" character before we know anything about them.

[Nika]

I guess the reason why people think that the NPC romance will be "less", is because you won't spend as much time with them.

For a lot of ppl just having your LI in your party, even if the relationship doesn't get addressed via banter or something, counts as the time they spend together.

So if the NPC romance is either only hetero or gay, someone is going to feel left out because the other sexuality get's two companion romances while they have the NPC who's "less" because you can't spend as much time with them

Like, if there is banter as in previous games where they get jealous over you obviously won't happen for the one that got the NPC and so on...

I hope I explained that well, english is not my first language

 

I'll have to admit that I didn't find the Mass Effect NPC romances all that great, so I hope that the Dragon Age team does it better

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Iron Bull is being written by Patrick Weekes.

 

As for DHMG, I'm thinking it's Sheryl, but there's a chance we'll never find out. She might also be writing the Warden.

 

Many of the writers don't really like talking about their work (especially when the final character we see is also a product of artists, animators, cinematics people, the voice actor) and others don't want to confirm anything because the characters might be pidgeonholed as "a typical [Writer X]" character before we know anything about them.

Where was Iron Bull confirmed as belonging to Weekes?

[fiveforchaos]

I guess the reason why people think that the NPC romance will be "less", is because you won't spend as much time with them.

For a lot of ppl just having your LI in your party, even if the relationship doesn't get adressed via batner or something, counts as the time they spend together.

So if the NPC romance is either only hetero or gay, someone is going to feel left out because the other sexuality get's two companion romances while they have the NPC who's "less" because you can't spend as much time with him.

Like, if there is banter as in previous games where they get jealous over you obviously won't happen for the one that got the NPC and so on...

I hope I explained that well, english is not my first language

 

I'll have to admit that I didn't find the Mass Effect NPC romances all that great, so I hope that the Dragon Age team does it better

I will give the Dragon Age Team credit, it does look like the NPC's in this game are going to be serving actually important functions, and have some influence on the plot, that gap between time spent with companions, and time spent with romanceable NPC's might be considerable smaller.

[ElitePinecone]

Do you happen to have a link to what he said?  I think some context might be missing.

Oh context is definitely missing, I've been having a terrible time finding old quotes, even though I distinctly remember discussing them and seeing other people discussing them when they were first posted. I hate to post false information to the forums, which is why I usually try my best to put a disclaimer up, but if it's relevant to the discussion I like to at least mention it so that someone can either correct me or find the original source I was unable to locate. But you're right, this particular issue might cause some uproar and pointing of fingers, so I'll delete it until I can find the original source. 

I've heard several people now say that Gaider said he didn't favor NPC romances, but it's one of those things that I see people say and never see a link to. 

 

It's from an old tumblr post, I think, I'll try to look for it.

[ElitePinecone]

Where was Iron Bull confirmed as belonging to Weekes?

 

It wasn't, but I can't see any other possibility. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

It wasn't, but I can't see any other possibility. 

Why is that? 

[CannotCompute]

Where was Iron Bull confirmed as belonging to Weekes?

 

Patrick had a picture of the Iron Bull as his avatar on Twitter for months. That's at least a big hint, imo.

[fiveforchaos]

Iron Bull is being written by Patrick Weekes.

 

As for DHMG, I'm thinking it's Sheryl, but there's a chance we'll never find out. She might also be writing the Warden.

 

Many of the writers don't really like talking about their work (especially when the final character we see is also a product of artists, animators, cinematics people, the voice actor) and others don't want to confirm anything because the characters might be pidgeonholed as "a typical [Writer X]" character before we know anything about them.

Yeah, definitely gotta give props to the artists this time around, there's a lot of character in each and everyone one of the follower appearances. I love the little details like Iron Bull's eye patch or the hearts on Cass's armor. And I suppose it's the collaboration of both an artist and a writer that contributed to DHMG's wonderful mustache. Can't exactly praise the writers at this point, seeing as how we haven't seen all that much writing, but I'm sure they did a wonderful job, as usual. 

[Nika]

Can't find Gaider talking about NPC romance, but this is pretty interesting

 

"So, no, I’m quite fine with selecting a few characters and having them be romantic options and letting the rest be simply what they are. My preference is that the romances cover a range of styles and sexualities as evenly as we can, and that they have comparable levels of content, and leave it at that. If someone doesn’t find something to their liking in that particular game, chances are we’ll have a whole different batch in the next game"

http://dgaider.tumbl...mances-in-games

[ElitePinecone]

Can't find Gaider talking about NPC romance, but this is pretty interesting

 

"So, no, I’m quite fine with selecting a few characters and having them be romantic options and letting the rest be simply what they are. My preference is that the romances cover a range of styles and sexualities as evenly as we can, and that they have comparable levels of content, and leave it at that. If someone doesn’t find something to their liking in that particular game, chances are we’ll have a whole different batch in the next game"

http://dgaider.tumbl...mances-in-games

 

It's my understanding that this is where people are getting the 2/2/2 thing from.

 

I've also had no luck finding David's original quote about non-companion LIs, but I definitely remember it from somewhere.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Patrick had a picture of the Iron Bull as his avatar on Twitter for months. That's at least a big hint, imo.

I don't have Twitter, so I didn't know this. Interesting. 

[ElitePinecone]

Found it (thank FSM for the new forum search system):

 

David was responding to this post in November 2012:

 

 

 

Poison_Berrie wrote...
Question: Why couldn't romances form outside of the party?

 

He said:

 

 

 

Technically they can. The problem there is a tough one to tackle, however. The amount of dialogue which is distinct to the romance is actually fairly small... there's a lot of conversation which a player has with a follower outside of romance-specific stuff (just "building the relationship"), often with just some variant lines to give such dialogues some different flavor. This allows them to serve more than one purpose (which is important, lest not romancing a character means barely having interactions with them at all).

Thus the line between what is the romance and what isn't are blurred, from the player perspective... indeed, a great deal of the relationship that you build with a follower stems from the time you spend adventuring with them. Is it part of the romance? No, of course not... but in your head it's an accumulation of time and experience. You're building a head canon of the time you've spent with the character.

Now take a character outside of the party. There's no time spent adventuring with them. Unless there are many other dialogues which would have occurred with that character anyhow, this means that any and all romance interactions would have to written specifically for that character... making them more expensive. Since you're not "spending time" in that character's company, the entirety of your relationship thus consists of you talking to them... and, from the player's perspective, those will always seem to be precious few. We can't possibly give such a romance the same depth. So, unless people are okay with such romances being comparitively paper-thin to follower romances, it cannot work the same way. Not, like I said, unless this is a character you are already otherwise interacting with a great deal.

Unless, by romances, we are referring to the kind of paper-thin romances one finds in the Witcher or Skyrim. If so, then sure. But I assume what's being requested are romances that are comparable to the ones you'd have with party members. 

 

He also.said:

 

 

 

I would point out that there are indeed people who claim that Traynor and Cortez were not "equal" romances for the very reasons I described-- despite having the same number of conversations, the perception of the overall interaction was not equal. But, yes, aside from that those are good examples of the way a non-party romance could work. 

 

Finally:

 

 

 

Correct. Having it be a non-party character who you already have lots of dialogue with evens it up a bit... but chances are very slim that there are anycharacters with a volume of dialogue that approaches your party members. Thus, yes, it will either be lopsided or you would have to write far more dialogue for those non-party characters to compensate. Since that isn't likely to ever happen, non-party romances will always be inherently lopsided... it's simply a question of how lopsided they would be. 

 

Keeping in mind how long ago that was, it is possible that he made those comments before Cullen/Leliana/Scribe had as much content as they do now.

[ElitePinecone]

I should say, all of those posts about non-companion LIs came from this topic:

 

http://forum.bioware...ests/?bioware=1

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Wow, great job tracking that down. 

[Mockingword]

Oh dear. David Gaider came right out and said that NPC romances would be lacking compared to party members, and they're still going ahead with it. XD

[ElitePinecone]

Oh dear. David Gaider came right out and said that NPC romances would be lacking compared to party members, and they're still going ahead with it. XD

 

I think the perception of not having as much time with the character is the most difficult obstacle to making them "feel" like party-member romances, but we've already seen examples of the advisors appearing outside of Skyhold (e.g. Leliana at a party camp near the desert dig site). I wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up having nearly as many conversations as the party members. 

 

Giving the NPC romances big, important roles in the game is another way to make them feel equivalent to the party members in terms of content, too - and given their inclusion in the Last Supper scene at the end of the trailer, Bioware are obviously promoting the idea that Cullen/Leliana/Scribe are significant. David said one of the challenges was ensuring that NPCs aren't just a romance and nothing else - but someone like Cullen appears to have a hefty amount of content relating to his Inquisition role even aside from his LI status.

 

Basically, I think David was suggesting that it's more difficult to make non-companion romances as fulfilling for some players as those with party members, considering the challenges of not being able to run around with them in the game world, and the likelihood that non-party characters will have less content overall. I don't think that precludes them from doing NPC romances, though - it just means they need to be careful, I guess.

 

Getting back to DHMG, I think it's more likely they he'd be either an m/m and m/f option, or exclusively m/m. I don't think people who enjoy same-sex romances have to worry about that content being "marginalised" in the form of NPC romances, and I'm pretty confident at least one party member will be an m/m option of some sort. Probably two.

[Nika]

Well he also pointed out the flaws of an NPC romance, so I hope that they somehow managed to make it work...

 

I think it would be cool if the NPC came along occasionally, or maybe even just once on a specific quest

[Jazinto]

Getting back to DHMG, I think it's more likely they he'd be either an m/m and m/f option, or exclusively m/m. I don't think people who enjoy same-sex romances have to worry about that content being "marginalised" in the form of NPC romances, and I'm pretty confident at least one party member will be an m/m option of some sort. Probably two.

 

Yes, at least one party member should be an m/m option. Why do you think DHMG is more likely than somebody else? I mean I hope he is an m/m option, but why do you think so?

[Lebanese Dude]

Yes, at least one party member should be an m/m option. Why do you think DHMG is more likely than somebody else? I mean I hope he is an m/m option, but why do you think so?

I wrote an analysis about 10 pages back. If you care, check it out

[ElitePinecone]

Yes, at least one party member should be an m/m option. Why do you think DHMG is more likely than somebody else? I mean I hope he is an m/m option, but why do you think so?

 

I had a rambling and incoherent post about it here: http://forum.bioware...ion/?p=16336094

 

The literary inspiration they seem to be drawing for the character makes him more likely to be an m/m option than any of the other party members, I feel. I don't think those references to Wilde and French naturalism are an accident, and he's quite significantly associated with 19th-century gay writers and social figures. That being said, I think it's just as likely that he could be bisexual. 

 

That's not a lot of strong evidence, more of a hunch. Unless they really want to subvert expectations, DHMG has a lot of signposts pointing towards being available to male Inquisitors. 

[Nika]

He's too fabulous

 

No all jokes aside, if 2/2/2 is a thing, we'll have 3 male romances.

Cullen's confirmed, Solas as an elf is very likely, and DHMG seems like an obvious choice as well.

As the only confirmed male, Cullen's kinda the only thing we can use to speculate right now.

He has only shown attraction to females so far, which doesn't completely rule him out as being bi, but bioware might not do that to avoid another debate like they got with Anders (him being gay all of a sudden and so on)

If we assume that Cullen is straight that means either Solas or DHMG is gay, and looking at past games it just seems more likely that Solas will be bi.

Also Solas as the "middle ground" makes a good contrast for Cullen and DHMG, both in looks and (hopefully) personality.

 

& I can feel the unrequited love slowly creeping up on me

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't care if DHMG is bi or gay. I'd like him to be bi, but then I'd feel bad (presumably) for Solas fans, so there's no real winning in hoping other people get what they want. It kind of seems like there are more female Solas fans than DHMG, so I almost wonder if Solas isn't the best hetero option. I've hardly seen any gay fans specifically hoping for Solas, honestly, but a large amount of female fans. Cullen has always had so many fans on both sides. I might be off on my estimations, though. 

 

If DHMG is available, though, he'll probably be the only option I'll use. It was the same with the past games. I've always stuck with one romance option. Maybe some day there will be two I like equally, but I'm pretty sure this isn't going to be it. lol