22176 réponses à ce sujet

[FantiSci]

I think it's likely to be a much more mage-friendly exam - Cole's mention that Dorian's dad is in the audience suggests it's a public (or at least open to family) event. Although it's entirely possible, given Tevinter's nepotism, that he was an exception, a special guest, or part of the examination board/invited witnesses. On the whole, though, I was reminded of the pages' promotion tests in the Tamora Pierce books: a multi-part exam where anyone interested can turn up, but it's mostly family members who bother. It certainly doesn't seem to involve any degree of secrecy, since Tevinter mages show off their magic. I think someone specifically mentions the term "enchanter", so perhaps there are several different levels of exam for different skill levels.

 

Still, Dorian does mention chatting to a desire demon at one point, who then attempted to possess him. I wonder where in his timeline that occurred. Training? As part of a test? After he qualifies?

 

Actually, that's got me thinking about two aspects of Dorian's story that puzzle me:

 

1) What's Dorian's relationship with his mother? He's definitely his dad's boy (hence why Halward's betrayal was such a kick in the gut), but she barely gets a mention. Even at the Winter Palace, when he talks about her treating him like a child, it's hard to tell if he remembers her with rueful affection or just annoyance. I did read a fic where it was his mum that tipped him off to the blood ritual, which was a really nice touch, but if that was the case surely she'd have more of a mention?

 

2) How DID he discover the blood ritual? Did Halward actually start it - or at least the preparation for it? Dorian says "You tried to change me", not "you planned to change me", but notes that he secretly hopes his father didn't really want to go through with it (suggesting that Dorian escaped pre-ritual). Dorian doesn't really strike me as all that sneaky unless absolutely necessary - I don't think he'd be listening at doors his whole life. Did he just have a hunch, or was someone else on his side?

[Des]

I think that it is the Harrowing, but they have a milder version of it up there. I vaguely remember him commenting on how because there is less fear about it, the harrowings in Tevinter tend to be more pleasant (why he went to a Castle with grapes and pillows and chatted with the demon). I am pretty sure he mentioned that in one of his banters, though I don't recall which one, maybe to Vivienne or Solas.

 

The pillows and grapes bit happens if you take him into the Fade at Adamant. He says when he went into the Fade before, he chatted with a desire demon and it was all very pleasant until it tried to possess him. I never thought about that being his Harrowing, though!

[Wanderlust14]

I think it's likely to be a much more mage-friendly exam - Cole's mention that Dorian's dad is in the audience suggests it's a public (or at least open to family) event. Although it's entirely possible, given Tevinter's nepotism, that he was an exception, a special guest, or part of the examination board/invited witnesses. On the whole, though, I was reminded of the pages' promotion tests in the Tamora Pierce books: a multi-part exam where anyone interested can turn up, but it's mostly family members who bother. It certainly doesn't seem to involve any degree of secrecy, since Tevinter mages show off their magic. I think someone specifically mentions the term "enchanter", so perhaps there are several different levels of exam for different skill levels.

 

Still, Dorian does mention chatting to a desire demon at one point, who then attempted to possess him. I wonder where in his timeline that occurred. Training? As part of a test? After he qualifies?

 

Actually, that's got me thinking about two aspects of Dorian's story that puzzle me:

 

1) What's Dorian's relationship with his mother? He's definitely his dad's boy (hence why Halward's betrayal was such a kick in the gut), but she barely gets a mention. Even at the Winter Palace, when he talks about her treating him like a child, it's hard to tell if he remembers her with rueful affection or just annoyance. I did read a fic where it was his mum that tipped him off to the blood ritual, which was a really nice touch, but if that was the case surely she'd have more of a mention?

 

2) How DID he discover the blood ritual? Did Halward actually start it - or at least the preparation for it? Dorian says "You tried to change me", not "you planned to change me", but notes that he secretly hopes his father didn't really want to go through with it (suggesting that Dorian escaped pre-ritual). Dorian doesn't really strike me as all that sneaky unless absolutely necessary - I don't think he'd be listening at doors his whole life. Did he just have a hunch, or was someone else on his side?

1) I have definitely wondered about his mother too. He mentions her twice (which granted, is more than most characters mention their parents), but neither of them is in overly fond ways. Plus, he was closer to his father than his mother and his parents hated each other, that could have led to a strained relationship.

2) I figured Halward actually told Dorian about the plan. It would be how Dorian knew so much about the ritual and explain the fight they had (the one where Halward kicked Dorian out). Cole mentions it in his banter with Dorian. I thought the fight was Dorian refusing the ritual.

 

 

The pillows and grapes bit happens if you take him into the Fade at Adamant. He says when he went into the Fade before, he chatted with a desire demon and it was all very pleasant until it tried to possess him. I never thought about that being his Harrowing, though!

Ah that is true! I am pretty sure he also talked about Harrowings being different in the South in another banter, don't recall which one. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I didn't think of the "test" mentioned in his banter with Cole as a Harrowing. Tevinter Circles are more like actual colleges, so I assumed it was a literal test as in an exam.

[Hazegurl]

I think the test wasn't a Harrowing. I think it was an exam or some sort of showcase of skill.  "His face in the stands watching as I pass the test...." line is from Dorian's pov.  Dorian is watching his father watch him.   Tevinter is all about having strong mages.  So I think Dorian worked his butt off to be the best mage for his father and he was proud that his father had tears in his eyes.

 

"The first time I entered the fade..." Sounds more like a Harrowing. He's never been to the fade before that moment. The fact that Dorian leisurely chats with a demon and is okay is probably what he means by the Harrowings not being as strict as it is in the Circles.

 

btw, if you take Viv in the fade she (Sniffs Disdainfully.) at Dorian after that line. lol!!

[nightscrawl]

I wasn't really thinking of the test mentioned in the banter as being a Harrowing, or even that his encounter with the desire demon was a Harrowing. The line reminded me of the circumstances surrounding the Harrowing as presented in the DAO mage origin which led to my questions.

 

2) I figured Halward actually told Dorian about the plan. It would be how Dorian knew so much about the ritual and explain the fight they had (the one where Halward kicked Dorian out). Cole mentions it in his banter with Dorian. I thought the fight was Dorian refusing the ritual.

When Dorian is telling the Inquisitor about it he says "I found out, I left." I really rather doubt that Halward told him, or gave him an ultimatum. It could be something as simple as gossiping servants**. Also, this was supposed to be a blood magic ritual, which Halward was supposedly very against, so if Dorian even got a hint that his father was going to use blood magic, even if he didn't know its purpose, he might have become suspicious and tried to find out. Dorian is very intelligent, particularly where magic is concerned; he's also observant. I imagine that considerable effort would have been taken to hide this from him, which ultimately failed.

 

Also, I think that "tried" versus "planned" is simply semantics in this instance. Tried can be used as "making the effort" which includes planning, procuring materials, etc.

 

 

 

** The idea of his mother telling him is an interesting one. However, since we don't know their relationship (which I'm assuming is not so great), it's difficult to say for sure. BUT, an interesting take might be that she did it just to mess with Halward's plans.

[Cuddlezarro]

i think its safe to say dorian confronted his father about the whole thing considering this banter with cole
 

• Dorian: I've been trying to imagine how to explain it to you, Cole.
• Dorian: The thing is, sometimes the ones you love are also the ones who disappoint you the most.
• Dorian: You think that if they love you, they should understand. They shouldn't want to hurt you.
• Dorian: So you feel betrayed. You say things you can't ever take back.
• Cole: Get out. You are no son of mine.
• Dorian: Yes, like that.
• Cole: He wishes he hadn't meant it.

[nightscrawl]

I don't understand how Cole can know the thoughts/feelings of people who aren't there, or that he has never met. Two examples from Dorian banter are the above "He wishes he hadn't meant it," and the line regarding Relenus "He would have said yes."

 

Incidentally, I do wish a romanced Inquisitor could comment on the Relenus one . I've always been miffed that I can't tell whether Dorian is embarrassed or just uncomfortable about the topic.

[Cuddlezarro]

cole can sense other peoples hurt if its connected to the person he is currently reading

 

he does it in other companion banter as well (the 2 banters he has about iron bulls personal quest come to mind)

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I don't understand how Cole can know the thoughts/feelings of people who aren't there, or that he has never met. Two examples from Dorian banter are the above "He wishes he hadn't meant it," and the line regarding Relenus "He would have said yes."

 

Incidentally, I do wish a romanced Inquisitor could comment on the Relenus one . I've always been miffed that I can't tell whether Dorian is embarrassed or just uncomfortable about the topic.

I don't think Cole actually can. I think Cole just says whatever he thinks someone needs to hear. I don't think he's above falsifying his abilities as long as the lie is a helpful one. 

 

And I always interpreted it as Dorian being upset by it rather than uncomfortable or embarrassed, but that might just be me emphasizing to the point of bias. If I was informed after the fact that someone I cared about reciprocated my feelings but I was too scared to ever approach him, I'd be pretty devastated about it. Missing an opportunity is a thousand times worse than never getting the opportunity, in my opinion.

[Cuddlezarro]

I don't think Cole actually can. I think Cole just says whatever he thinks someone needs to hear. I don't think he's above falsifying his abilities as long as the lie is a helpful one. 

 

And I always interpreted it as Dorian being upset by it rather than uncomfortable or embarrassed, but that might just be me emphasizing to the point of bias. If I was informed after the fact that someone I cared about reciprocated my feelings but I was too scared to ever approach him, I'd be pretty devastated about it. Missing an opportunity is a thousand times worse than never getting the opportunity, in my opinion.

 

no he actually can if its connected to the person hes reading

 

• Cole: "Tama, how will I follow the Qun?" Her hands, strong but gentle, rubs the stubs where the horns will be.
• Cole: "You are strong, and your mind is sharp. You will solve problems others cannot." She smiles, but sadly.
• Iron Bull: Looks like my old Tamassran was wrong. Bet she's pissed one of her kids went Tal-Vashoth.
• Cole: Agents with hushed tones. Eyes stinging. Forms to fill out, course corrections. Reduce risk of similar losses.
• Cole: I remember the little boy, too wise, eager to help. Words break in small, secret spaces. He got away. He got away.
• Iron Bull: How could you know that? You've never even met her.
• Cole: Your hurt touches hers.
• Iron Bull: Well, that's, uh, creepy, but... Thanks.

and while its not on the wiki he also has one if you sacrifice the chargers and he tells bull there last thoughts

[daveliam]

Hi Dorian thread.  I think I've got a major problem.

 

I'm replaying my 'canon' playthrough because I did it the first time before I upgraded to the Xbox One.  And my qunari warrior has to romance Dorian.  "Has to" (not up for debate! ). 

 

And......I think I hit the dreaded Dorian personal quest bug.  I didn't have any issues in my other playthroughs, so I didn't really pay attention to the reason why it triggers.  But this time, I've finished the main quest up to Skyhold (am waiting on both the Warden and Halamshiral quests) and completely finished the Hinterlands, the Storm Coast, the Exalted Plains, the Forbidden Oasis (minus two chambers), and am now doing the Temple of Dirthamen.  I've also finished his "One Less Venatori" quest. 

 

And Mother Giselle hasn't triggered his personal quest yet.  I have the bug, don't I?  I'm devastated if that's the case.  I'll have to put this playthrough on hold until they patch it because there's no way I can continue without getting Dorian's romance because this is supposed to be my canon playthrough.  ARGH!!!!!!

[Milan92]

Hi Dorian thread.  I think I've got a major problem.

 

I'm replaying my 'canon' playthrough because I did it the first time before I upgraded to the Xbox One.  And my qunari warrior has to romance Dorian.  "Has to" (not up for debate! ). 

 

And......I think I hit the dreaded Dorian personal quest bug.  I didn't have any issues in my other playthroughs, so I didn't really pay attention to the reason why it triggers.  But this time, I've finished the main quest up to Skyhold (am waiting on both the Warden and Halamshiral quests) and completely finished the Hinterlands, the Storm Coast, the Exalted Plains, the Forbidden Oasis (minus two chambers), and am now doing the Temple of Dirthamen.  I've also finished his "One Less Venatori" quest. 

 

And Mother Giselle hasn't triggered his personal quest yet.  I have the bug, don't I?  I'm devastated if that's the case.  I'll have to put this playthrough on hold until they patch it because there's no way I can continue without getting Dorian's romance because this is supposed to be my canon playthrough.  ARGH!!!!!!

 

Did you have the Felix dialogue cutscene appear yet?

 

Because that one triggers right before Giselle appears. Also try to complete a chat or a mission that "moves" Skyhold forward.

[Wanderlust14]

 

 

And Mother Giselle hasn't triggered his personal quest yet.  I have the bug, don't I?  I'm devastated if that's the case.  I'll have to put this playthrough on hold until they patch it because there's no way I can continue without getting Dorian's romance because this is supposed to be my canon playthrough.  ARGH!!!!!!

Have you judged Alexius yet (if you went that path)? That can some times trigger it, but yes, it does seem like the bug. My advice, contact EA customer service, and let them know this is a problem. I find the squeaky wheel gets the oil and so the more people complain about the bug, the higher the priority (and maybe you can get a clue about the next patch). 

 

 

i think its safe to say dorian confronted his father about the whole thing considering this banter with cole
 

• Dorian: I've been trying to imagine how to explain it to you, Cole.
• Dorian: The thing is, sometimes the ones you love are also the ones who disappoint you the most.
• Dorian: You think that if they love you, they should understand. They shouldn't want to hurt you.
• Dorian: So you feel betrayed. You say things you can't ever take back.
• Cole: Get out. You are no son of mine.
• Dorian: Yes, like that.
• Cole: He wishes he hadn't meant it.

 

 

Yeah, this dialogue definitely made me think he confronted his father about it. Maybe his father didn't tell him, but I don't think he just ran off. If he was as close to his father as it is implied, he would have tried to talk to him.

[daveliam]

Did you have the Felix dialogue cutscene appear yet?

 

Because that one triggers right before Giselle appears. Also try to complete a chat or a mission that "moves" Skyhold forward.

 

No, I don't think so, but to be honest, it's hard to remember because I've been doing this playthrough slowly over the last month or so.  But I've exhausted all of his dialogue options.  I was thinking about taking him with me through the Warden main quest, and seeing if that helped trigger it. 

 

What do you mean by "a chat"?

 

Have you judged Alexius yet (if you went that path)? That can some times trigger it, but yes, it does seem like the bug. My advice, contact EA customer service, and let them know this is a problem. I find the squeaky wheel gets the oil and so the more people complain about the bug, the higher the priority (and maybe you can get a clue about the next patch).

 

Yeah, I already judged Alexius (and made him an agent working under Fiona).  I'll definitely put in a report with EA customer service.  I'll be so pissed if I have to put this one on hold. 

[Hellion Rex]

Hi Dorian thread.  I think I've got a major problem.

 

I'm replaying my 'canon' playthrough because I did it the first time before I upgraded to the Xbox One.  And my qunari warrior has to romance Dorian.  "Has to" (not up for debate! ). 

 

And......I think I hit the dreaded Dorian personal quest bug.  I didn't have any issues in my other playthroughs, so I didn't really pay attention to the reason why it triggers.  But this time, I've finished the main quest up to Skyhold (am waiting on both the Warden and Halamshiral quests) and completely finished the Hinterlands, the Storm Coast, the Exalted Plains, the Forbidden Oasis (minus two chambers), and am now doing the Temple of Dirthamen.  I've also finished his "One Less Venatori" quest. 

 

And Mother Giselle hasn't triggered his personal quest yet.  I have the bug, don't I?  I'm devastated if that's the case.  I'll have to put this playthrough on hold until they patch it because there's no way I can continue without getting Dorian's romance because this is supposed to be my canon playthrough.  ARGH!!!!!!

Sorry bro. I got the bug too on my first Xbox One runthrough. It effing sucks.

[daveliam]

Sorry bro. I got the bug too on my first Xbox One runthrough. It effing sucks.

 

Agreed.  Totally sucks and in the not-fun kind of sucking way.......

[Hellion Rex]

Agreed.  Totally sucks and in the not-fun kind of sucking way.......

Bull more than made up for it though.

Dear Lord, did he make me feel better.

[sandalisthemaker]

Did you side with the mages, Daveliam? I've been observing this and I find that most people who are having this problem have sided with the mages.

[daveliam]

Did you side with the mages, Daveliam? I've been observing this and I find that most people who are having this problem have sided with the mages.

 

Yep.  Sided with the mages and allied with them (versus conscription).  And sentenced Alexius to work under Fiona.  I think that those are the only major decisions I made so far.

[Hellion Rex]

Did you side with the mages, Daveliam? I've been observing this and I find that most people who are having this problem have sided with the mages.

Son of a gun. I did the same. And in my second playthrough, when I actually got the romance to fire correctly, I sided with the Templars...interesting.

 

From what I understand, part of it might have something to do with talking to Dorian about Felix directly after In Your Heart Shall Burn/In Hushed Whispers.

[sandalisthemaker]

I think there might be something to the whole- getting too much approval too quickly thing. 

 

I tend not to side with mages and if I do, I conscript them. (Yes, go ahead and hang me lol). I haven't had any problems with Dorian's quest. Siding with mages and taking them in as allies would cause Dorian's approval to rise dramatically. Plus doing the Venatori quest and flirting with him and talking at Haven before getting to Skyhold- which you can only do if you side with mages- all adds to large gains in approval.

 

I've seen some users say that they got around the bug by reloading a save and only killing one group of Venatori instead of two or three, which equals less gain in approval.  So there might be something to that.

[Milan92]

What do you mean by "a chat"?

Sometimes, certain cutscene talks fastforqaed Skyhold a day, as if you complete a main quest.

For example the talk with Solas while the inquisitor is asleep.

[Wanderlust14]

I think there might be something to the whole- getting too much approval too quickly thing. 

 

I tend not to side with mages and if I do, I conscript them. (Yes, go ahead and hang me lol). I haven't had any problems with Dorian's quest. Siding with mages and taking them in as allies would cause Dorian's approval to rise dramatically. Plus doing the Venatori quest and flirting with him and talking at Haven before getting to Skyhold- which you can only do if you side with mages- all adds to large gains in approval.

 

I've seen some users say that they got around the bug by reloading a save and only killing one group of Venatori instead of two or three, which equals less gain in approval.  So there might be something to that.

Interesting, I have allied with the mages twice and not have issues, but I haven't done the venatori quest until after getting his personal (I will officially start it, but not kill any). I also play on PC if that helps at all. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Interesting, I have allied with the mages twice and not have issues, but I haven't done the venatori quest until after getting his personal (I will officially start it, but not kill any). I also play on PC if that helps at all. 

 

Hmmm.... And the Venatori quest grants massive amounts of approval.  Interesting.