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[(Disgusted noise.)]

If I ever ally with the Qunari, it will be the same quizzy who jumps into the pit instead of solving those g-d puzzles at the Temple of Mythal.  It will be hard to play the ass-quisitor, but if I keep playing the good quizzy I'm going to miss out on content.  I couldn't even finish my DAO pt with the 'makes the "bad" decisions because I haven't yet' HoF lol

 

Romancing Cullen this pt - and he is yummy, but he's no Dorian...

Yeah, I can never ally with the Qunari. I even tend to play "renegade" but still, there are some principles that will not be broken. The only involvement I want with the Qun is to obliterate it or severely modify it.

[Sui Causa]

Some people were concerned that Bioware has spent a lot of time "softening" the Qun lately, but I don't believe that is the case. I think Bioware has shown us that there are good people under the Qun. That there are people who want to see it changed, but still love the good parts enough to deal with the bad. I think Bioware is setting it up, to give us motivation to want to save the Qun. Not the religion itself, but the people under it.

 

Now, being motivated to change it? Thats great, but theres no faction or world power atm that is strong enough to do so, even the Inquisition. You'd have to build one.

 

Full force of Inquisition alliances + Tevinter? Maybe. But oh god, the can of worms that it would open? Ahaha. I don't think anything like that could be DLC. xD It'd need it's own game entirely.

[Hazegurl]

I'm I the only one that had an issue with Gatt?

 

 I think that's his name, he's the elf dude that gets into an argument with Dorian during IB's quest. On one hand, Dorian started it with his homeland pride thing but once my IQ makes it clear that fighting isn't why they're here Dorian stops. Then that elf just starts picking at him while we're on our way to fight the Venatori. The moment he starts in with his veiled threats toward Dorian I wanted that Dreadnaught to sink. Put Solas in the party and he'll just start trash talking Solas. If that is the representative they sent for an alliance then they've made a poor choice. 

[Wanderlust14]

I'm I the only one that had an issue with Gatt?

 

 I think that's his name, he's the elf dude that gets into an argument with Dorian during IB's quest. On one hand, Dorian started it with his homeland pride thing but once my IQ makes it clear that fighting isn't why they're here Dorian stops. Then that elf just starts picking at him while we're on our way to fight the Venatori. The moment he starts in with his veiled threats toward Dorian I wanted that Dreadnaught to sink. Put Solas in the party and he'll just start trash talking Solas. If that is the representative they sent for an alliance then they've made a poor choice. 

Oh goodness, once those threats started, I immediately found him off putting. I understand where he was coming from, but the Qun should have sent someone with more experience with dealing with people who may disagree with him.

 

Some people were concerned that Bioware has spent a lot of time "softening" the Qun lately, but I don't believe that is the case. I think Bioware has shown us that there are good people under the Qun. That there are people who want to see it changed, but still love the good parts enough to deal with the bad. I think Bioware is setting it up, to give us motivation to want to save the Qun. Not the religion itself, but the people under it.

 

Now, being motivated to change it? Thats great, but theres no faction or world power atm that is strong enough to do so, even the Inquisition. You'd have to build one.

 

Full force of Inquisition alliances + Tevinter? Maybe. But oh god, the can of worms that it would open? Ahaha. I don't think anything like that could be DLC. xD It'd need it's own game entirely.

I totally agree with you, I don't see the Qun as soften at all, but they are showing it is more diverse than what DAO and DA2 showed. I definitely think, if Bioware is willing to really go for it, it could be a very interesting game. What I would really love to see is a game like Origin where the four races have four different starting points (two in Tevinter and two in Par Vollen), have a cataclysmic event that shakes up the war and fighting and then go from there 

 

Haha, see, as someone who spent some time studying arms reduction and detente in the Cold War, I truly think the only way you will get slavery out of Tevinter is to make them think they aren't completely alone and will be attacked immediately. The transition of a slave based economy to a free economy is going to be hard and with the Qunari waiting to attack them from the North and a possible Exalted March from the South at any time, they will never go for it. Some measure of security needs to be achieved first before the process can even be considered. Of course, this will probably won't happen this way, but realistically, this is most likely. 

[Arlee]

Not really, Dorian's skills come from being a mage not high born, although he got his training because he was high born. He only survived by selling his amulet. At least that put food in his belly, and because he can fight, he can protect himself from bandits et al. That's no different than a low class person who can fight and steal.

 

Except he only has that medallion because he's highborn. He also has a lot of knowledge he learned due to being highborn as well. I'm not saying the only reason he was able to make it was because of this, but it was a large factor. So to make the comparison between him striking out on his own and a slave or very low class person isn't really applicable because it's completely different situations and different in ways which make a huge difference.

[Nymeria Stark]

...I want this...so badly. Of course, I also see DA4 being about either Tevinter or the Anderfels (just because the ending left so much open with the Anderfels). I think it would be so interesting to get to ally with Tevinter for a game or DLC, since I really think that would shake things up. 

 

I agree, I also hope DA4 will be in Tevinter. I'm really interested in Tevinter now and have respect for it, thanks to Dorian.   I even have Tevinter decoration in my Skyhold in his honour lol. It would be great to have option for male or female inquisitor to go there with Dorian and help him reform Tevinter, as his friend or as his lover, I don't want to let him go alone... This would also be awesome to continue the romance with Dorian, i feel like i need a lot more of it... I really want some kind of "Dorian Age" game or expansion at least.

[nightscrawl]

I'm I the only one that had an issue with Gatt?
 
 I think that's his name, he's the elf dude that gets into an argument with Dorian during IB's quest. On one hand, Dorian started it with his homeland pride thing but once my IQ makes it clear that fighting isn't why they're here Dorian stops. Then that elf just starts picking at him while we're on our way to fight the Venatori. The moment he starts in with his veiled threats toward Dorian I wanted that Dreadnaught to sink. Put Solas in the party and he'll just start trash talking Solas. If that is the representative they sent for an alliance then they've made a poor choice.

WOAH that happens? I have always picked the "both sides have problems" response and haven't noticed any issues. Or do I just need to hang around before going up the hill? I'll have to switch it up next time I see. O_O

[Wanderlust14]

WOAH that happens? I have always picked the "both sides have problems" response and haven't noticed any issues. Or do I just need to hang around before going up the hill? I'll have to switch it up next time I see. O_O

I actually take the "both sides have problems" path as well and Gatt still gives veiled threats to Dorian. 

[Wanderlust14]

http://xfreischutz.t...m-all-out-today

by Frei

Solas and Dorian as frienemies is one of my favorite things

[Hazegurl]

Except he only has that medallion because he's highborn. He also has a lot of knowledge he learned due to being highborn as well. I'm not saying the only reason he was able to make it was because of this, but it was a large factor. So to make the comparison between him striking out on his own and a slave or very low class person isn't really applicable because it's completely different situations and different in ways which make a huge difference.

Sure Dorian got the amulet because he was rich but it's not like some low born thief couldn't have stolen some jewels et al to sell.  It's done all the time.  It's not like Dorian was sipping tea and laying on silk pillows and eating grapes while sleeping in the woods. 

 

My entire point is that it was difficult for Dorian to leave home, but the reason why he was able to make that choice is because he wasn't a slave. Overall, everyone has a choice, whether you're rich or poor. I could even say that slaves do as well. It's just that slavery would attempt to strip that choice altogether whereas a poor person isn't faced with the exact same limitations as a slave. This is why I've never really liked Dorian's comeback by comparing the poor to slavery anymore than I like IB comparing bakers in val Royeux to to bakers under the Qun.

 

The baker in VR has a choice/the baker under the Qun doesn't.

Dorian and the Poor have a choice/A slave doesn't.

 

This is why I applied Solas's comeback to Dorian's argument.  Sure not everyone can escape poverty but there are a rare few who do despite the limitations.  The choice to escape poverty isn't completely snatched from them, like freedom is to a slave.

 

**Note: I am not saying that Dorian and the poor are on the same level. But that they both have the freedom to choose even if the choice leads to hardship. Saying that slavery isn't that bad because poor people can't escape poverty is an argument I understand but I'm not sold on it.

 

And I'll say I'm done with this debate.

 

------------

 

@Night, I usually pick the option to tell them both to drop it. Mainly because my IQ is sort of "ride or die" with Dorian and don't want to make him look bad in front of this stranger by calling him out on his own country's issues. If push comes to shove, even if Dorian is wrong, Gatt would have gotten a murder knife if Dorian told me to do it. Yeah I'm a bad IQ

 

But it seems like you could also select the choice you use and still get his threats because Gatt is just itching to start trouble with Dorian and Solas. It made me want to 300 kick him off the cliff.

 

[Dr. Doctor]

I'm I the only one that had an issue with Gatt?
 
 I think that's his name, he's the elf dude that gets into an argument with Dorian during IB's quest. On one hand, Dorian started it with his homeland pride thing but once my IQ makes it clear that fighting isn't why they're here Dorian stops. Then that elf just starts picking at him while we're on our way to fight the Venatori. The moment he starts in with his veiled threats toward Dorian I wanted that Dreadnaught to sink. Put Solas in the party and he'll just start trash talking Solas. If that is the representative they sent for an alliance then they've made a poor choice.

They've never done the whole diplomacy thing before, and since they're more "submit or die", not a hegemonic empire they have no real reason to start.

Going off of what Bull talks about, it doesn't sound like the Qun is anywhere near as cohesive of a machine as it paints itself to be. They have superior naval and weapons technology, but seem to be solely focused on taking Seheron which they can't seem to do without Tevinter pushing them back again. If what's going on there and what happened with the Arishok is any indication they've created people who can follow orders, but snap when those orders can't be carried out. Only the Ben-Hessrath are trained to think for themselves, so field commanders don't improvise. Without radio, magic, or other forms of high-speed communication back to Qunandar to keep updating orders, any invading force would bog down in a prolonged campaign.

Of course, with the extensive network of Ben-Hessrath agents across Thedas you might be able to create orders with enough contingencies to work around that problem. I don't think we have a problem for now.

They remind me a bit of the Radch from the novel Ancillary Justice. "Radch" in their language means civilization, it is almost gramarically impossible to say that another empire considers itself to be civilized. It's a pretty interesting take on post-colonialism and AI, I recommend it.

[coldwetn0se]

I'm I the only one that had an issue with Gatt?
 
 I think that's his name, he's the elf dude that gets into an argument with Dorian during IB's quest. On one hand, Dorian started it with his homeland pride thing but once my IQ makes it clear that fighting isn't why they're here Dorian stops. Then that elf just starts picking at him while we're on our way to fight the Venatori. The moment he starts in with his veiled threats toward Dorian I wanted that Dreadnaught to sink. Put Solas in the party and he'll just start trash talking Solas. If that is the representative they sent for an alliance then they've made a poor choice.

I literally just played this part (with my Dorianmancer, Abel). If you choose to "side" with Dorian (i.e. "Dorian is right..."), then Gatt doesn't goad him. HOWEVER! I will say, that it is quite possible that Solas' presence may override this bit of dialogue, since Gatt will later (once you have taken out the first set of "Vints") then focus on Solas NOT having "vallaslin".

Still, thought I would toss in this bit of info.

Carry on...

[Arlee]

I literally just played this part (with my Dorianmancer, Abel). If you choose to "side" with Dorian (i.e. "Dorian is right..."), then Gatt doesn't goad him. HOWEVER! I will say, that it is quite possible that Solas' presence may override this bit of dialogue, since Gatt will later (once you have taken out the first set of "Vints") then focus on Solas NOT having "vallaslin".

Still, thought I would toss in this bit of info.

Carry on...

 

That's interesting... I have only done that quest with Solas in the party and I don't recall anything happening between them at all :/ I'll have to pay more attention when I go to do it in my current PT.

[Nymeria Stark]

http://xfreischutz.t...m-all-out-today

by Frei

Solas and Dorian as frienemies is one of my favorite things

 

Lol i love them too, i found this other comic in that page, it's so silly 

 

 

http://xfreischutz.t...e-the-best-tags

[Hazegurl]

I literally just played this part (with my Dorianmancer, Abel). If you choose to "side" with Dorian (i.e. "Dorian is right..."), then Gatt doesn't goad him. HOWEVER! I will say, that it is quite possible that Solas' presence may override this bit of dialogue, since Gatt will later (once you have taken out the first set of "Vints") then focus on Solas NOT having "vallaslin".

Still, thought I would toss in this bit of info.

Carry on...

Yep, I forgot that Solas's presence will override it. If you have Solas in the group he'll mess with him, if it's just Dorian he'll target him. I don't know if he does this with any other group members.

[Wanderlust14]

Yep, I forgot that Solas's presence will override it. If you have Solas in the group he'll mess with him, if it's just Dorian he'll target him. I don't know if he does this with any other group members.

He talks to some of the other members, I remember with Sera he tries to tell her about the Qun but she shoots him down. I think he says something to Vivienne as well, but I don't recall. 

[Sui Causa]

Gatt picked on Cole in my playthrough.

 

Screw that guy. You're not allowed to be mean to my squirrely spirit child. >:|

 

It was actually Iron Bull that told Gatt to stfu and stop being mean to Cole. ♥ That made me pretty happy. Having it come directly from Iron Bull instead of my Inquisitor having to defend one of his allies from a potential one? That was a pretty great touch. I kind of wish Iron Bull had interjected with Dorian's spat at the beginning too, but oh well. My Inquisitor can handle that one.

 

But still. Gatt's an ass. Screw that guy. >:|

[FrostDragon]

Sweet mercy of the creators. I leave the forums for a few hours and this thread had at least 3 new pages and has gone through at least half a dozen topics every time.

 

I won't touch the Qun discussion with a ten foot pole as it is a rather complex issue with many goods and bads and rights and wrongs, but I can see both side of the slavery argument. I get what Dorian is trying to say when he compares poverty to slavery. I mean, taking one look at the city elf origin in DAO proves just how insignificant and powerless the poor are compared to most in power in just about any other country. Darktown in DA2 is even worse, some slaves are in way better shape than the starving refugees down there, but it's not right that a couple evil magisters could just decide they needed to kill Oriana's father for his blood one day. Anybody who sells themselves into slavery is pretty much accepting whatever comes, but most slaves were either born into it or abducted by slavers and forced into it, neither of which is ok. I think it's simply sufficient to pile it on top of Tevinter's great number of issues, though I do wish the game had allowed for a more through discussion of the topic.

 

I don't know that I've ever had either Solas or Dorian in my party for Bull's mission. May have to try that. Gatt's character honestly makes little sense to me though, he is very antagonistic, but then if you talk to him he admits to being a bit conflicted about his role in the Qun and to not understanding parts of it, yet he seems to have adopted the bigotry just fine.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

So, I guess Gatt is an ass no matter who you bring? I've only done Bull's personal quest twice (I'm getting really lazy about talking to him, unfortunately) and once I had Dorian and once I had Solas. I definitely got Solas and Gatt arguing, but I don't remember anything with Dorian. I guess whatever wheel option I took discouraged it?

 

Anyway, yeah, I never liked that guy, regardless of being a Qun lapdog. I honestly would have preferred a Tallis cameo there frankly.

[Sui Causa]

I don't know if he says anything futher via banter to Dorian, but his fight with Dorian was right out of the starting gates the first time you talk to Gatt. Dorian says something, Gatt snaps back, and the two are at each other's throats until the Inquisitor steps in and breaks them up.

 

I think afterwards Gatt chooses someone else for banter. I've reloaded a few times during that quest to hear Gatt's banter with various people, but I have never gotten him to trigger on Dorian even though Dorian has always been in the party. I'm not sure if it's possible or Dorian has just gotten lucky every time I've played through it. >.>

[Wanderlust14]

I don't know if he says anything futher via banter to Dorian, but his fight with Dorian was right out of the starting gates the first time you talk to Gatt. Dorian says something, Gatt snaps back, and the two are at each other's throats until the Inquisitor steps in and breaks them up.

 

I think afterwards Gatt chooses someone else for banter. I've reloaded a few times during that quest to hear Gatt's banter with various people, but I have never gotten him to trigger on Dorian even though Dorian has always been in the party. I'm not sure if it's possible or Dorian has just gotten lucky every time I've played through it. >.>

That is funny since I have gotten Gatt and Dorian every time after I tell them to stop. Apparently, if you side with Dorian (which I haven't yet) Gatt leaves him alone, so that could be stopping it. 

[Sui Causa]

That is funny since I have gotten Gatt and Dorian every time after I tell them to stop. Apparently, if you side with Dorian (which I haven't yet) Gatt leaves him alone, so that could be stopping it. 

Ahhhhh, that could be it. xD I think I always either side with Dorian or go with the "BOTH YOUR HOMELANDS SUCK >:|".

 

Most of the time Gatt goes for Cole. It's like he knows who I am most protective of and beelines right for him. ._. Could his target be chosen based off approval ratings, actually? Or maybe not, idk.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I would guess I probably sided with Dorian the time I took him, so that's probably it.

[Hazegurl]

Ahhhhh, that could be it. xD I think I always either side with Dorian or go with the "BOTH YOUR HOMELANDS SUCK >:|".

 

Most of the time Gatt goes for Cole. It's like he knows who I am most protective of and beelines right for him. ._. Could his target be chosen based off approval ratings, actually? Or maybe not, idk.

Now that is interesting! Gatt going after those with high approval. Now I'm going to reload that scene with different party members to see who he attacks. lol!