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Dorian discussion and appreciation thread


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#18176
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On my 4th playthrough and still hearing new stuff. Has anyone ever heard Dorian comment during Josephine's personal quest? I'm wondering if it's romance-specific dialogue or not.

 

When you confront the assassin and decide to kill him instead of letting him walk away, after the fight I got this exchange:

 

Dorian: That's the last time I wait outside a door when you've involved, are you two alright? (I assume he means when Josie's involved?)

Josephine: We're fine, thank you Lord Pavus

 

I've done that part the EXACT same way before and never heard him comment. (Never had anyone comment during it.) I usually do it pretty early on though, wondering if I got it this time because it was much later in the game and his romance was locked in. It just sounds like romancey dialogue from the way he sounded worried.

It might just be a high approval dialogue? I've gotten that from Dorian during that quest when romancing the Iron Bull. Bull made some comment too, but I think it's all just friendship comments and not actual romancy dialogue. ;_;



#18177
Unable2Connect

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Weird the amount of times I've done that quest and never heard anything. Though some dialogue does seem a bit glitchy about triggering at all.



#18178
Gervaise

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Honestly, I do get that Dorian has issues and that is why he behaves like he does.   The things is the way I see it my Lavellan is taking a way big chance with him too.   Dorian is human and Tevinter, so he had to get past an awful lot of ingrained prejudice in his own mind, plus the fact that if he ever entertained ideas of one day returning to his clan, if he takes Dorian as a lover that would be impossible.    When we had the talk about slavery, whilst Dorian admitted that he hadn't really thought about it much before coming south, he does pretty much defend the institution.   Bearing in mind he's an elf, Lavellan found that pretty hard to come to terms with as well.   The fact is things wouldn't have gone as fast as they did if it hadn't been for Mother Giselle having a go about Dorian's influence on the Inquisitor.   That really got his back up because they can make him their religious icon if they must but he sure as hell isn't go to let them dictate who he's friends with.    

 

Now with the amulet, he was thinking along the lines of what the lads do back in the clan when they want to let someone know they're interested.   He didn't think Dorian would appreciate him butchering a deer or wolf on his behalf but it seemed like the amulet was something with a comparable significance to Dorian.   Normally the gift is reciprocated so when Dorian says there is something waiting for him in his room, he wasn't quite expecting what he got.    I don't know how anyone else plays it, but so far as my clan is concerned, people pair bond for life but gay partners are rather thin on the ground, so he doesn't have any experience of sex but does want a proper relationship.     Dorian coming on strong and encouraging him to be "bad" isn't what he wanted to hear at all, which is why he asks to slow it down.  (I have to admit I cheated just so I knew what I was missing but I reloaded because I had to stay true to the character I had created).

 

I suppose it's just that the mechanics of the game are such that after the sex scene, you don't get many genuine opportunities to discuss things with Dorian and we never get a follow up to the slowing down scene, which is a pity.    So after many visits where I simply indulged in a kiss (because I do love the look on his face all through that scene and it is obvious he does adore him), I finally plucked up courage to do the "talk about the future" and him mocking my lad for his sentimentality and going on about calf eyes did seem rather unfeeling and inconsiderate (particularly when you consider that big eyes are meant to be a feature of elves and my lad does have lovely big green ones, that Dorian had previously admired), bearing in mind that by now you'd think Dorian would have started to trust him a bit more.

 

Anyway, I've been playing through again tonight and as always I popped into see Dorian before shutting down for the night and gave him his goodnight kiss.   We're hanging in there, my Lavellan and I, because we think Dorian is worth it.


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#18179
nightscrawl

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On my 4th playthrough and still hearing new stuff. Has anyone ever heard Dorian comment during Josephine's personal quest? I'm wondering if it's romance-specific dialogue or not.
 
When you confront the assassin and decide to kill him instead of letting him walk away, after the fight I got this exchange:
 
Dorian: That's the last time I wait outside a door when you've involved, are you two alright? (I assume he means when Josie's involved?)
Josephine: We're fine, thank you Lord Pavus
 
I've done that part the EXACT same way before and never heard him comment. (Never had anyone comment during it.) I usually do it pretty early on though, wondering if I got it this time because it was much later in the game and his romance was locked in. It just sounds like romancey dialogue from the way he sounded worried.


Holy ****, I had no idea that anyone would comment AT ALL. Most of those kinds of follower-specific quests are very scripted and just sort of ignore the fact of your bringing anyone else along. The Dorian/father and Alistair/Goldanna quests are examples of this.

I will assume that his phrasing of "That's the last time I wait outside a door when you've [you're? is this a typo?] involved" is referring to the Inquisitor. As in, 'I'm not just going to wait around while my friend/boyfriend puts her/himself in danger.'
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#18180
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Yeah, that's meant to be a you're, sorry!

 

Makes me wonder what other comments I've missed during quests where party members are meant to have input and I've just got silence.

 

Maybe the patch had something to do with it? It was supposed to fix issues with banter firing, but perhaps that extends to other comments.



#18181
nightscrawl

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@ Gervaise - I forget sometimes how seriously some people roleplay their characters and looking at certain things through the character's eyes can really change the perception of events.

 

As you wrote them I understand where your frustrations come from. I'll also add that I think that neither DAO nor DAI did that stellar a job of race portrayal beyond the various origin stories and a few random lines here and there. For the most part all of the romances play the same with the same dialog options available whether you are a mage or non-mage, a human noble (I tend to view this as more or less Dorian's peer choice), a qunari, elf, or dwarf and I think this can sometimes be inadequate based on the extremities of roleplay potential that these races provide the player.


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#18182
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The intros with Dorian and Cole both playout better on the Templar path imo. With the mages Dorian just strides into the war room and no one bats an eye. Like if you took Cass there she would know who he was but there is no good reason for Cullen and Leliana to have zero reaction to this person regardless if one of the agents followed him in. It's just weird. And then Cole (whom you've never met before) just shows up outside your gate as you are about to be attacked. Why would anyone listen/trust him? It's just bizarre :(

 

I did.  :(

 

Yeah, Cole is mysterious and bizarre, but he makes it clear he wants to help you and proves himself when he reveals why the Elder One is attacking ("He's very angry that you took his mages"), when he reveals that Chancellor Roderick is thinking about the secret passage out of Haven, and then helps get everyone to safety. Yes, once at Skyhold everyone has a moment to wonder who and what this mysterious young man is to have the uncanny ability to make people "forget" about him, but by then he's proven his genuine desire to help, so my Inquisitor was willing to take a chance on letting him stay.

 

And this was back when I (the player) didn't know anything about Cole other than he was a serial killer Fade demon from the book Asunder. If anything, I had even less reason to trust him than people who go in blind, yet let my character make the choice to trust him based on his previous actions rather than his nature. (And that' really odd, because I don't usually accept characters without meta knowledge that'll work out, like with Zevran and Sten. This one felt really good, and I'm not plagued with lingering doubts like, "If I'd known beforehand that he would turn out to be nice, would my character have accepted him...?")

 

Conversely if you go with the Templar path the Inquisitor meets Cole there and has this whole thing where he helps and gets to know the Inquisitor. Then when he randomly appears in the war room everyone reacts naturally (Cass and Cullen even pull swords on him) and the Inquisitor can talk them down because of the previous experience. Then when Dorian shows up outside the gates when you are being attacked it makes sense the Inquisitor listens to him and lets him in because they've already met and stuff.

 

I don't know, this is where personal preference comes in again.

 

To be honest, my Dalish Inquisitor trusted Dorian even less at first because... Tevinter. (Appropriated Elvhen magic and homeland, then subjugated its people into a thousand years of slavery, and still enslaves many to this day.) Not only that, but the apprentice of a Tevinter Magister in the service of the Elder One. She thought at first that Dorian was just trying to slither into her good graces the way Alexius did to Fiona. She let Dorian come along out of necessity to get to Alexius in Redcliffe Castle (didn't feel it was safe to let Tevinter remain there), but didn't start to fully trust him until their trip to the dark future. ("Don't worry, I'll protect you" was the first thing Dorian said that pierced her defenses and made her think, "He's really serious about helping.") Without that? She probably would have thanked him for his help at Haven, if that was his true intention (and he wasn't just spying for his Venatori fellows or Corypheus), "now get out."

 

But then I haven't played the Templar run yet, mostly because I haven't played a character who would turn to Templar support before mages. None of my Dalish Apprentices really have any reason to turn to Andrastian human holy warriors who actively suppress elves and mages. I personally find that to have greater "realistic role-play" problems than accepting Cole without knowing who he is.

 

I really like the whole time travel thing and everything that happens there on the mageside... but once you get past that part it all goes weird to me and is less satisfying  :(

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think it's fine, personally, but then I don't really have anything to compare it to. (Need to get on that!) 


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#18183
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I just don't enjoy Champions of the Just very much. I find In Hushed Whispers a lot more fun, plus bonus interaction with Dorian and Cullen is hard to pass up. Really the only selling point for siding with the Templars for me is Calpernia. I can understand the arguments that the Templar path is more thematically appropriate, but fun trumps slight more concise narrative for me. (Plus I tend to play as a screw the Templars type of character. Even though I'm almost always a rogue, my characters would generally rather just let the whole order rot.)


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#18184
Vita Brevis

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The only good thing about the Champions' quest is the ability to disband them. Sooo satisfying. The quest itself is weaker than in hushed whispers, but Envy makes up for it a little, and so does Calpernia (because Samson is kinda boring comparing to her).

But my canon will always be the Inq going after the mages.


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#18185
Hazegurl

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About the amulet quest, I always prefer to not take him to see the merchant. I recognize in a way it's sort of dishonest because he didn't want me to help and I'm helping without telling him, but I also feel like it's better that way. I know some people put on the same level as if you didn't tell him about the letter his father sent and just take him to Redcliff. But to me that seems totally different. With the letter from his father it's clearly a big deal and he clearly has cause to not want to see him, so giving him the choice makes sense to me. However, with the amulet he never explains the reason he doesn't want help is because he's afraid people will just think he's using the Inquisitor (he only explains this after giving him the amulet). So his objection seemed more silly, and there was the whole bit he had zero plan for getting it back. Anywho, to me it makes more sense to just go get it and surprise him. I was curious what you guys think about it.

I agree. I love having more content with Dorian but my canon is that my IQ finds out about the Amulet and just goes and gets it as a gift. I don't even talk to Dorian about it, I do it all behind his back.  To hear the hitch in Dorian's voice when you first present it is absolutely priceless.  I also don't for a minute think it's deceiving him in the same way as not informing him about the letter.  The letter deals with an actual falling out between two people and it's unfair to let Dorian walk in there blind and unprepared. It just reeks of shadiness on the IQ's part to go along with it and I think that is what Giselle and Halward wanted.  Something to drive a wedge between the IQ and Dorian in hopes that Dorian would opt to return home.

 

The Amulet is more of a gift than anything. It's something Dorian wants and the IQ doesn't need his permission to get it back for him.  Naturally it won't stop Dorian from seeing a gift as something he must payback.


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#18186
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Hmmm. I've never gotten the amulet without taking him with me. I never really even consider it, I suppose. Is it that different?



#18187
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Honestly, I do get that Dorian has issues and that is why he behaves like he does.   The things is the way I see it my Lavellan is taking a way big chance with him too.   Dorian is human and Tevinter, so he had to get past an awful lot of ingrained prejudice in his own mind, plus the fact that if he ever entertained ideas of one day returning to his clan, if he takes Dorian as a lover that would be impossible.    When we had the talk about slavery, whilst Dorian admitted that he hadn't really thought about it much before coming south, he does pretty much defend the institution.   Bearing in mind he's an elf, Lavellan found that pretty hard to come to terms with as well.   The fact is things wouldn't have gone as fast as they did if it hadn't been for Mother Giselle having a go about Dorian's influence on the Inquisitor.   That really got his back up because they can make him their religious icon if they must but he sure as hell isn't go to let them dictate who he's friends with.    

 

Glad to see another Lavellan who feels that way. While Dorian has a good soul and a noble heart, he does say some thoughtless things that can irk a Lavellan of any gender, even if they love him romantically or consider him their best friend.

 

Dorian: Tevinter is where Thedas truly began.

Lavellan: No, Elvhenan is where Thedas began.

 

Dorian: I see you let the mages govern themselves. What's next? Elves running Halamshiral?

Lavellan (flushes furiously): ... That was literally my next goal, actually. 

 

Dorian: (Defends slavery)

Lavellan: Spoken by the human noble born to a family who owned slaves instead of being one, to the elf whose people have millennia of baggage regarding slavery.

 

I do agree though about Mother Giselle hurrying things along. My female Lavellan was polite to Dorian, but detached because of her own prejudices regarding Tevinter. My male Lavellan is very slow and cautious in matters of the heart, but was especially so with Dorian because he was trying to figure out if the (Tevinter) human noble he was growing to like really liked him (the elf) as a person or a lust object. Then Giselle comes along saying, "I know you two are very close," and both Lavellans are like "We are?" Although for different reasons. (Female is like, "I've never even been that nice to him! Does he really consider me that close a friend?" Male Lavellan's heart leapt in his chest.) Like you though, being told who you can be friends with (and in my Lavellans' case, being asked to lie to someone who has been open and honest with you all along), did not sit well. But by the end of the personal quest Dorian makes it clear he values the Inquisitor very highly (romantic or platonically), so that hurried that friendship/relationship along.

 

Now with the amulet, he was thinking along the lines of what the lads do back in the clan when they want to let someone know they're interested.   He didn't think Dorian would appreciate him butchering a deer or wolf on his behalf but it seemed like the amulet was something with a comparable significance to Dorian.   Normally the gift is reciprocated so when Dorian says there is something waiting for him in his room, he wasn't quite expecting what he got.    I don't know how anyone else plays it, but so far as my clan is concerned, people pair bond for life but gay partners are rather thin on the ground, so he doesn't have any experience of sex but does want a proper relationship.     Dorian coming on strong and encouraging him to be "bad" isn't what he wanted to hear at all, which is why he asks to slow it down.  (I have to admit I cheated just so I knew what I was missing but I reloaded because I had to stay true to the character I had created).

 

Nice! That's actually a really interesting way of playing it. I hadn't thought of it that way.

 

For the amulet, I just figured my Lavellan went and got it because he knew Dorian wanted it and he was in the position to get it.

 

I figured too that Clan Lavellan didn't have that many same-sex pair-bonded partners and didn't talk about it that much, but then my Lavellan was always kept busy and apart from everyone as Keeper's First anyway, so that's a little moot. Now he likes someone "that way" for the first time in his life, though he's slow and shy about it because it's outside his comfort zone, and of course Dorian doesn't help since he keeps coming on too fast and too strong. (You can't even imagine how many times my Lavellan spent hours mustering the courage to talk to Dorian about matters of the heart - ask for a kiss, talk about the relationship, etc - only for Dorian to say something "fawning" that took the wind right out of his sails (remarked that he can't believe no one has rubbed his shoulders and fed him grapes, remarked that he loves watching him walk, remark that he should go to his chambers as there's a surprise there, etc) and left his words stuck in his throat, his tongue-tied, his face burning, and his feet clumsy as he made a hasty retreat.) Unfortunately, my Lavellan's not so naive that he doesn't guess exactly what Dorian has planned as a surprise in his chambers, so he's been putting it off for a while.

 

I suppose it's just that the mechanics of the game are such that after the sex scene, you don't get many genuine opportunities to discuss things with Dorian and we never get a follow up to the slowing down scene, which is a pity.    So after many visits where I simply indulged in a kiss (because I do love the look on his face all through that scene and it is obvious he does adore him), I finally plucked up courage to do the "talk about the future" and him mocking my lad for his sentimentality and going on about calf eyes did seem rather unfeeling and inconsiderate (particularly when you consider that big eyes are meant to be a feature of elves and my lad does have lovely big green ones, that Dorian had previously admired), bearing in mind that by now you'd think Dorian would have started to trust him a bit more.

 

Oh great, that's something to look forward to for my Lavellan. -.-

 

Anyway, I've been playing through again tonight and as always I popped into see Dorian before shutting down for the night and gave him his goodnight kiss.   We're hanging in there, my Lavellan and I, because we think Dorian is worth it.

 

Amen.


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#18188
Marlena_8

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Like Faerunner and others, I've played characters that just haven't felt naturally bent towards the templars.  That's why my next playthrough I HAVE to give it a try lol.  But, I just discovered the magic that is the Dorian romance and didn't want to give that up just yet, so... glad that it seems you can make things work with him and a pro-templar guy.  Plus, I've been sort of dying to play a male human too. 

 

Oh and I think it was Nymeria who wondered if killing Ponchard locks you out of the romance with Dorian.  It does.  I have the official game guide and it says he will break up with the Inquisitor and that will be the end of the romance. 



#18189
Dr. Doctor

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As cool as the Dragon Age: Days of Future Past element of In Hushed Whispers was, it kind of loses its shock value after a while. Also, I like Ser Barris. The scene you can get where he becomes Knight-Commander for saving innocents, mage and mundane alike without raising a sword is well done.

Plus Dorian helping Roderick (who actually complements him) is pretty touching. Although I usually go to Redcliffe first before starting Therinfal:

Dorian: Don't worry Felix, the Inquisition will be here any time now.

Felix: You do realize that you didn't tell them how you'd contact them? Or asked where they could be reached?

Dorian: Fasta Vas.
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#18190
Hazegurl

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Hmmm. I've never gotten the amulet without taking him with me. I never really even consider it, I suppose. Is it that different?

Not really. He'll be really surprised when you first present it, then he'll tell you that he got himself into it and wanted to get it back on his own. Then it's the usual convo about people thinking he's using him et al. He still greatly approves.

---------------

 

I prefer Champions as I think the story is better and Dorian and Cole make more sense in their intros. Meeting Dorian in RedCliffe justifies my trusting him enough to let him in. Cole is awesome in Champions and I love his appearing in the war room scene much better than Dorian's. Meeting Cole in Champions justifies my trusting him enough to let him join.

 

 I also enjoy headcanoning a love/hate relationship between my IQ and Dorian before the romance begins so meeting him and then not aiding him is a good set up for me.

 

As a bonus I get Ser Barris, Calpernia, and the dynamic duo The Avvar Chief and Abernache. :lol:


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#18191
Wanderlust14

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I prefer Hush over Champion, both for getting Dorian earlier and having him for the entire quest (The "I'll protect you" line really helps it along) and because I struggle not playing as a mage supporter or at least someone weary of the Templars. Plus, and it is almost embarrassing to admit I care this much about an NPC who you literally meet and have on screen for about five minutes, there is Felix to consider. I hate the idea of him dying either in or by the hands of the Venatori. At least in Hush, he gets to go home and hopefully be with people who care about him while helping the Inquisition in a meaningful way. 


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#18192
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I prefer Hush over Champion, both for getting Dorian earlier and having him for the entire quest (The "I'll protect you" line really helps it along) and because I struggle not playing as a mage supporter or at least someone weary of the Templars. Plus, and it is almost embarrassing to admit I care this much about an NPC who you literally meet and have on screen for about five minutes, there is Felix to consider. I hate the idea of him dying either in or by the hands of the Venatori. At least in Hush, he gets to go home and hopefully be with people who care about him while helping the Inquisition in a meaningful way. 

Ser Barris has a fan club, so I don't think it's that embarrassing. (Felix is way more intriguing, in my opinion.)



#18193
Emperor Iaius I

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Dorian: I see you let the mages govern themselves. What's next? Elves running Halamshiral?

Lavellan (flushes furiously): ... That was literally my next goal, actually. 

 

 

 

I was role-playing a hardcore Andrastian when I did the mages path, so I haven't had a dialogue about freeing them. However, given that Dorian would presumably approve of mages governing themselves (given his background), doesn't this suggest that he's in favor of the elves getting the Dales back? It's maybe a little sarcastic or flippant, but that's kind of what it sounds like.

 

But like I said, I haven't had that conversation with him so I could be completely off base here.



#18194
d4eaming

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Honestly, I do get that Dorian has issues and that is why he behaves like he does.   The things is the way I see it my Lavellan is taking a way big chance with him too.   Dorian is human and Tevinter, so he had to get past an awful lot of ingrained prejudice in his own mind, plus the fact that if he ever entertained ideas of one day returning to his clan, if he takes Dorian as a lover that would be impossible.    When we had the talk about slavery, whilst Dorian admitted that he hadn't really thought about it much before coming south, he does pretty much defend the institution.   Bearing in mind he's an elf, Lavellan found that pretty hard to come to terms with as well.   The fact is things wouldn't have gone as fast as they did if it hadn't been for Mother Giselle having a go about Dorian's influence on the Inquisitor.   That really got his back up because they can make him their religious icon if they must but he sure as hell isn't go to let them dictate who he's friends with.    

 

Now with the amulet, he was thinking along the lines of what the lads do back in the clan when they want to let someone know they're interested.   He didn't think Dorian would appreciate him butchering a deer or wolf on his behalf but it seemed like the amulet was something with a comparable significance to Dorian.   Normally the gift is reciprocated so when Dorian says there is something waiting for him in his room, he wasn't quite expecting what he got.    I don't know how anyone else plays it, but so far as my clan is concerned, people pair bond for life but gay partners are rather thin on the ground, so he doesn't have any experience of sex but does want a proper relationship.     Dorian coming on strong and encouraging him to be "bad" isn't what he wanted to hear at all, which is why he asks to slow it down.  (I have to admit I cheated just so I knew what I was missing but I reloaded because I had to stay true to the character I had created).

 

I suppose it's just that the mechanics of the game are such that after the sex scene, you don't get many genuine opportunities to discuss things with Dorian and we never get a follow up to the slowing down scene, which is a pity.    So after many visits where I simply indulged in a kiss (because I do love the look on his face all through that scene and it is obvious he does adore him), I finally plucked up courage to do the "talk about the future" and him mocking my lad for his sentimentality and going on about calf eyes did seem rather unfeeling and inconsiderate (particularly when you consider that big eyes are meant to be a feature of elves and my lad does have lovely big green ones, that Dorian had previously admired), bearing in mind that by now you'd think Dorian would have started to trust him a bit more.

 

Anyway, I've been playing through again tonight and as always I popped into see Dorian before shutting down for the night and gave him his goodnight kiss.   We're hanging in there, my Lavellan and I, because we think Dorian is worth it.

 

I agree with pretty much everything here. My Lavellan just get tongue-tied, he doesn't know how to handle Dorian being so forward about everything. And lol about skinning a deer. He'd make him a nice cloak or something but he'd feel like Dorian might find it "quaint" since he's so refined.

 

I would definitely like follow-up on the take it slow path, and it's a shame they didn't give that option, because he'd definitely prefer it. Instead, I just have him pace things out instead and pretend they already talked about it. That's what fan-fiction is for :)


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#18195
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Despite the popularity, or perhaps because of it, I've always thought that Dorian/Lavellan are a bit of an odd pair. Not a bad one, but definitely something that requires a bit of a balancing act. Dorian's really got no idea how to interact with elves, and as evidenced by his banter with Sera and Solas, tends to alternate between handling them with kid gloves or putting his foot in his mouth with well intended ignorance. He's every bit of a privileged majority member who, while not prejudiced, is a bit awkward and uncomfortable interacting with a minority due to a small frame of reference. If romances actually took race into account, that would probably be more reflected.


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#18196
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I was role-playing a hardcore Andrastian when I did the mages path, so I haven't had a dialogue about freeing them. However, given that Dorian would presumably approve of mages governing themselves (given his background), doesn't this suggest that he's in favor of the elves getting the Dales back? It's maybe a little sarcastic or flippant, but that's kind of what it sounds like.

 

But like I said, I haven't had that conversation with him so I could be completely off base here.

 

Sorry, Lavellan can't actually say that in the game, that's just my mental reaction to how I think they would react.

 

If you complete In Hushed Whispers and then sign on the mages as allies instead of imprisoning them, the next time you go initiate dialogue with Dorian as he's standing in the snow in Haven, he'll say words to the effect of, "So, you have the mages govern themselves? What's next? Elves running Halamshiral? Cows milking farmers?" If the Herald questions him, Dorian then clarifies that he is glad the mages aren't in chains, but still... after everything you two saw in the future, Dorian muses that maybe mages shouldn't be given absolute freedom, as no one should have that much power. What you saw in the horrific future is proof enough.

 

It still feels like a punch to the gut for an elf though, since he compares elves running their own previous homeland (from a Dalish perspective) to "cows milking farmers," a saying that usually connotates being against the laws of nature. It's not very nice to hear for someone playing an elf who wants to be seen as a full and complete person, or for an elf who wants to gain freedom for his/her people and hear the idea of elves self-governing the way humans do being flippantly compared to something that's seen as absurd and against the laws of nature.

 

Despite the popularity, or perhaps because of it, I've always thought that Dorian/Lavellan are a bit of an odd pair. Not a bad one, but definitely something that requires a bit of a balancing act. Dorian's really got no idea how to interact with elves, and as evidenced by his banter with Sera and Solas, tends to alternate between handling them with kid gloves or putting his foot in his mouth with well intended ignorance. He's every bit of a privileged majority member who, while not prejudiced, is a bit awkward and uncomfortable interacting with a minority due to a small frame of reference. If romances actually took race into account, that would probably be more reflected.

 

Yeah, it's really too bad the only race dialogue they added at all was when Dorian asks the Inquisitor if s/he's Dalish, makes some awkward small talk about it, then asks if it'll be an issue between the two of them. The race and backcould have made for some really interesting and awkward interactions and character development, but alas... that's what headcanon is for. (And one needs to hear all of his dialogue with Solas, Sera, and comments on various elven ruins you visit to understand what he would say in that situation.)


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#18197
Fredward

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Despite the popularity, or perhaps because of it, I've always thought that Dorian/Lavellan are a bit of an odd pair. Not a bad one, but definitely something that requires a bit of a balancing act. Dorian's really got no idea how to interact with elves, and as evidenced by his banter with Sera and Solas, tends to alternate between handling them with kid gloves or putting his foot in his mouth with well intended ignorance. He's every bit of a privileged majority member who, while not prejudiced, is a bit awkward and uncomfortable interacting with a minority due to a small frame of reference. If romances actually took race into account, that would probably be more reflected.

 

What helps my headcanon is that the Inquisitor is an exceedingly weird Dalish elf. If I try and imagine literally any other Dalish into the position of Inquisitor and expect them to behave even vaguely like my Inquisitor does my brain just goes 'brrzzzzt: does not compute.' Then they have to be even more weird because I don't want to play the game in a non-optimal way so my elf would have to have a deep curiosity of human culture, history and events and NOT just how they pertain to elves. Curious enough to have made a study of them. He doesn't really identify as Dalish because he sees them as insular and backwards, to focus on the past to create a future, he doesn't really see himself as an elf because he's never experienced their level of suffering, he doesn't see himself as human because he's so often reminded that he's not. The result being that he sees himself as somewhat separte from everyone and tends to observe and occasionally judge cultures rather than participate.

 

ANYWAY. My point is that I've headcanoned it so that they've either had a conversation along these lines or that Dorian has simply picked up on it which is why he doesn't treat him in any specific way. He just treats him like, well, his amatus.


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#18198
ThreeF

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Thought to ask you guys here:

 

I'm hearing that siding with Templars can make Dorian very angry. For some reason it seems I can't trigger it, I even specifically talked to him at the Redcliffe chantry, no reaction whatsoever, what gives?



#18199
Arlee

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I just don't enjoy Champions of the Just very much. I find In Hushed Whispers a lot more fun, plus bonus interaction with Dorian and Cullen is hard to pass up. Really the only selling point for siding with the Templars for me is Calpernia. I can understand the arguments that the Templar path is more thematically appropriate, but fun trumps slight more concise narrative for me. (Plus I tend to play as a screw the Templars type of character. Even though I'm almost always a rogue, my characters would generally rather just let the whole order rot.)

 

Oh I totally agree Hush Whispers is more fun in itself, it's just everything else around it for the rest of the game that annoys me. Like every time I see Fiona standing in Skyhold I want to yell at her "Could you please go DO something instead of just standing around feeling sorry for yourself??". She frustrates me so much, and then there are the other things I mentioned before.

 

I generally play all my characters as sort of facets of myself, and I personal have sympathy for both the Templars and the Mages. Both sides have had awful crap done to them and they both have done awful things... but I always feel it's better to judge individuals rather than entire groups. So I've always offered both sides full alliance. I can't even imagine making the choice to conscript either side >< For the Templars it does help Ser Barris is pretty much the perfect example of what Templars should be, especially if you send him on missions on the war table.

 

Hmmm. I've never gotten the amulet without taking him with me. I never really even consider it, I suppose. Is it that different?

 

Here's what the convo with the merchant is like without him there:

 

And the conversation when you give him the Amulet:

 

Not hugely different, but it feels a bit smoother (probably the wrong word, but that's all I got atm).

 

Like Faerunner and others, I've played characters that just haven't felt naturally bent towards the templars.  That's why my next playthrough I HAVE to give it a try lol.  But, I just discovered the magic that is the Dorian romance and didn't want to give that up just yet, so... glad that it seems you can make things work with him and a pro-templar guy.  Plus, I've been sort of dying to play a male human too. 

 

Oh and I think it was Nymeria who wondered if killing Ponchard locks you out of the romance with Dorian.  It does.  I have the official game guide and it says he will break up with the Inquisitor and that will be the end of the romance. 

 

It's definitely worth doing each side once, gives an interesting perspective on things. Just make sure when you do Templars to save Ser Barris so you can use him in war table missions, I think you'll be happily surprised by those :)

 

Also I am VERY happy to hear if you kill the merchant Dorian breaks-up with you. It would have ridiculously disturbed me to think he wouldn't. Would have been so wrong on so many levels.

 

Ser Barris has a fan club, so I don't think it's that embarrassing. (Felix is way more intriguing, in my opinion.)

 

I do love Ser Barris (though I had to get over issues with the name Barris from swtor ><), but I do wish Felix would have survived longer and could have helped as well. I really liked him and the way Dorian talks about him I definitely would have liked for him to have more to do. The only real heartbreaking thing for with the Templar path is when Dorian checks in on Felix he can't find any word of him anywhere and it's almost as if Felix never existed :(


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#18200
Arlee

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Thought to ask you guys here:

 

I'm hearing that siding with Templars can make Dorian very angry. For some reason it seems I can't trigger it, I even specifically talked to him at the Redcliffe chantry, no reaction whatsoever, what gives?

 

I have heard this too and I've never seen it. The only thing I can think of is maybe if you conscript the templars (I've always allied) but I don't see why that would particularly make him mad :/ I mean he does make a comment about wishing you would have been able to help the mages but it's not in anger and he certainly doesn't dwell on it.