22176 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

I was mostly speaking in hypotheticals about Steve, and that judgement really hinges on why he was written like that - I think the intention is as important as the final result. There's broad agreement that the more diverse portrayals of same-sex-attracted people, the better.

 

I have nothing against what we could clumsily call 'non-stereotypical gay characters', except a reservation that in erring away from stereotypes, writers and creators might intentionally create a character that solely exists not to be a stereotype. There are also some situations in which stereotypical portrayals of gay people (without the homophobia and prejudice, clearly) are more or less accurate, especially if they're based on actual people for whom we have lots of written evidence. The solution to problematic representation of gay people in media is not to ricochet back in the other direction and make everyone a burly space marine, is basically what I'm saying.  

 

(I think Steve had loads of characterisation outside his sexuality, which should be expected of any Bioware character, and DHMG/Dorian would surely have the same - so I don't think there's any risk of every conversation being about mahogany tables, or whatever. They've never done that.)

[Jazinto]

I think it is kind of amazing that all that is needed to begin the stereotypical gay discussion is a nice mustache and drama hands, whereas concepts of characters like Iron Bull never begin conversations about stereotypical masculinities.

 

Maybe that's because stereotypical masculinity isn't considered a bad thing by men or society.

[daveliam]

I was mostly speaking in hypotheticals about Steve, and that judgement really hinges on why he was written like that - I think the intention is as important as the final result. There's broad agreement that the more diverse portrayals of same-sex-attracted people, the better.

 

I have nothing against what we could clumsily call 'non-stereotypical gay characters', except a reservation that in erring away from stereotypes, writers and creators might intentionally create a character that solely exists not to be a stereotype. There are also some situations in which stereotypical portrayals of gay people (without the homophobia and prejudice, clearly) are more or less accurate, especially if they're based on actual people for whom we have lots of written evidence. The solution to problematic representation of gay people in media is not to ricochet back in the other direction and make everyone a burly space marine, is basically what I'm saying.  

 

(I think Steve had loads of characterisation outside his sexuality, which should be expected of any Bioware character, and DHMG/Dorian would surely have the same - so I don't think there's any risk of every conversation being about mahogany tables, or whatever. They've never done that.)

 

Totally agreed.  I actually really like that we are even able to have these conversations.  In the 16 years that I've been Bioware games, I've never been able to broach this conversation without using hypotheticals.  Steve, as the first openly gay LI, and now possibly DHMG (or another guy) as the first openly gay companion are opening up the door.  Of course we are going to scrutinize them both closely.  However, now that the door has been opened, we should see as varied representations of gay men as we do straight men and straight women and that makes me very  happy.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

To be honest, I would love it if there was a cute, non-traditionally masculine LI for m/m. I'm not into manly guys and that's already that vast majority of guys in media, but especially video games. They definitely wont be doing me any favors by cranking up the testosterone on every possible gay LI.     

[Nika]

I don't think he's gay because of his looks, I just think it's more likely that Solas is bi and Cullen straight.

So if we have 2/2/2 it means that DHMG would be gay, but obviously that's very speculative

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I don't think he's gay because of his looks, I just think it's more likely that Solas is bi and Cullen straight.

So if we have 2/2/2 it means that DHMG would be gay, but obviously that's very speculative

I think that's honestly where most of the speculation is from. People expect 2/2/2. Cullen can't be gay. If Solas is straight, then people will be angry about getting all humans. It makes the most sense to make Dorian gay, if anyone. It might not happen, but there's better arguments for it happening. 

[MattH]

For myself personally, if he is gay I'd rather him not be flamboyant. I feel that sort of character is represented constantly when it comes to them also being gay. I'd honestly would like a middle ground, not someone really butch and masculine nor highly camp. 

 

Though I'm not to big a fan of Anders, I feel he sits comfortably in that zone.

[MattH]

I think that's honestly where most of the speculation is from. People expect 2/2/2. Cullen can't be gay. If Solas is straight, then people will be angry about getting all humans. It makes the most sense to make Dorian gay, if anyone. It might not happen, but there's better arguments for it happening. 

Solas and Dorian might even not be romances, we could get Iron bull or Grey Warden. 

 

Who knows? 

[Hellion Rex]

Solas and Dorian might even not be romances, we could get Iron bull or Grey Warden. 

 

Who knows? 

I am totally down with that!!!!!!! GIMME

 

 

Iron Bull #TwoHander

[MattH]

I am totally down with that!!!!!!! GIMME

 

 

Iron Bull #TwoHander

we can always count on you to lower the tone Elu

I'd rather have either over them over Solas...

[Hellion Rex]

we can always count on you to lower the tone Elu

I'd rather have either over them over Solas...

Dear, that's just my inner Isabela taking over.

 

And yes, I'd like a helping of IB.

[The Elder King]

Or we might get more than three LI. The fact that they didn't confirm the six LI and 2/2/2 ratio is interesting.
It might be that there could be race restrictions too.

[ElitePinecone]

I think it is kind of amazing that all that is needed to begin the stereotypical gay discussion is a nice mustache and drama hands, whereas concepts of characters like Iron Bull never begin conversations about stereotypical masculinities.

 

Sort of torn about this. On the one hand, does it reflect the prevalence of (negative, limiting) stereotypes that people instantly assume a man who is flailing must be gay?

 

On the other hand, that concept art had to be drawn like that for a reason - and all the other tidbits we've had about DHMG (his possible name, the literary references in that name, the artistic references in his character model, some fictional quotes about mahogany from the developers) aren't exactly changing the impression some people took from the original art.

 

I wouldn't put it past Bioware to write an outrageously campy magister and pull it off brilliantly, despite the fact that this relies on what people consider negative stereotypes. Maybe camp is an act.

 

<insert Judith Butler here>

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Solas and Dorian might even not be romances, we could get Iron bull or Grey Warden. 

 

Who knows? 

Those would be my worst case scenario, not gonna lie. 

[MattH]

I wouldn't put it past Bioware to write an outrageously campy magister and pull it off brilliantly, despite the fact that this relies on what people consider negative stereotypes. Maybe camp is an act.

I think this would mostly be down to choosing the right voice actor. 

 

Campy lines and actions with a voice to match can often become grating/comedic, but with a voice to contrast that...

[MattH]

Those would be my worst case scenario, not gonna lie. 

I don't think that'll happen Mort, just throwing it out there

[Hellion Rex]

Those would be my worst case scenario, not gonna lie. 

No worries, Mort. It's probably the least likely to happen.

[Nika]

Do you guys really find him that flaily?

I just think he looks kinda pissed

[Wulfram]

I'd associate being expressive with your hands as a French trait more than anything else.  And the moustache suggests swashbuckler

[Hellion Rex]

Do you guys really find him that flaily?

I just think he looks kinda pissed

Same, I think he was merely expressing anger, and his hands were expressing that.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I didn't think he "looked gay" in the picture. I don't really understand why people would think he was going to be super camp Hollywood style gay. I don't see that actually happening. He may not be the manliest of all men, but I think he'll be a long way from a gay stereotype. 

 

I also think the reason most people have been guessing him is more just deduction based on the other characters than that he looks gay.   

[Nika]

I just noticed, doesn't it kinda seem like he's glaring at Solas?

[ElitePinecone]

"That is mahogany!"

[MattH]

I just noticed, doesn't it kinda seem like he's glaring at Solas?

His general hairlessness offends him

[Nika]

His general hairlessness offends him

Not what I was expecting, but I'll take it