22176 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRatPack55]

To come to the conclusion that you can have love AND still follow your convictions? Getting him to stay FEELS nice but it also feels, to me at least, as if I'm not giving him space to grow. I'm sort of just swapping one problem for another. Sure now he knows he can find love but at what price? What about his dreams of seeing Tevinter changed?

 

 

 

Anyway, Brain 2 saw this guy (male human 2) and now I have to restart. Send help.

 

I kind of knew what I was setting myself up for with that conversation, since spoilers, spoilers everywhere, but it just didn't feel right for my Inquisitor to emotionally manipulate Dorian into forgetting about his goals in Tevinter. I offered to go with him, which he turned down, and then just went 'well, if that's what you feel you need to do'

Still, knowing he'll leave did hurt...

 

_{my next Inquisitor will definitely be more selfish and go the emotional blackmail route}

 

I'm actually looking forward to starting a new game and planning another char now, so many handsome faces to make! Although, I should be checking out other romances, but I fear I won't be able to resist Dorian...

 

Male human 2 is hot, definitely my type, I like those softer yet masculine types of faces... as you can probably tell looking at my own IQ

[nightscrawl]

I kind of knew what I was setting myself up for with that conversation, since spoilers, spoilers everywhere, but it just didn't feel right for my Inquisitor to emotionally manipulate Dorian into forgetting about his goals in Tevinter. I offered to go with him, which he turned down, and then just went 'well, if that's what you feel you need to do'
Still, knowing he'll leave did hurt...

I hate this conversation and am dreading it in my current play. The options presented are woefully inadequate for how my Inquisitor actually feels about the subject.

I think either Dorian's father or mother must have low fertility.

I don't know why you think this... there are only so many times people who loathe (this is Dorian's word) each other would be willing to have sex. They were probably relieved (for several reasons) when she got pregnant.

And because I think about Dorian way too much, I've also thought about what that knowledge did to his psyche.

[Gervaise]

It is not emotional manipulation to help them believe they are worthy of being loved and they can have a permanent loving relationship with someone.   Dorian doesn't need space to grow; he's pretty much the same good person that arrived.   Where he has grown is emotionally and will continue to do so if you keep the relationship in tact.

 

Time and again Dorian voices the fear that it is not going to last; he was foolish to think it would.    If you say, if you leave I'll quite understand, he responds "And so my heart is broken."   It seems light hearted banter but it masks the disappointment that the Inquisitor is not willing to fight to keep him.   It is what he expects, that the relationship is going to end eventually anyway, so he gives himself a goal to allow him to walk away and retain his dignity.  

 

If you say "I need you", he responds with "I never though you'd pull the emotional blackmail ....." but then interrupts the response to say "only joking".   It comes as a surprise to him that you do admit you need him.   As I say above, it is a pretty big deal for a powerful man like the Inquisitor to admit as much.   I would imagine that very few of the powerful men Dorian has encountered before would ever admit to such vulnerability.   Even then, he still says he'll think about it, may be because they may not survive the coming battle.    If the Inquisitor dies, then there will be no need for a decision.   Ditto if Dorian dies.    That is why he only gives his decision after the battle at the party.   He discusses about them both surviving and finally admits he is going to stay.   

 

Everyone is going to have their own interpretation on events.  For my Inquisitor he crucial decision in the relationship was whether or not to drink the well.  I had misgivings about doing so and Dorian and Solas didn't wish to, which is enough to give anyone pause but the decision still hung in the balance until  Dorian asked him not to because he didn't want to risk losing him.   So he didn't.   Had I drunk from the well, I would never have considered pressuring him into staying because clearly I didn't need him enough to respect the advice and his fears,    Afterwards he was very grateful to Dorian that he hadn't drunk when he actually met Mythal.  

 

I have a different expectation of romances from a lot of people.   I'm looking for an almost spiritual connection.   Thought I had it with Solas but goodness was I wrong there.    By the end, so far as I'm concerned, it was there with Dorian.     I think Cole is the one who most acknowledges the pressure that the Inquisitor is under from everyone's expectations.   Dorian keeps him sane.    I think they are mutually good for one another, an equal partnership.    It is not some soppy, sentimental romance but deeper and more enduring.   My Inquisitor could not have got to the point he has without Dorian and so it is not emotional manipulation but the simple truth.   He does need Dorian.  

[nightscrawl]

^ I agree with you there. But that is the reason I dislike the options. You should certainly be able to express that you love someone AND that you understand what is important to them.

 

I don't like that it makes my Inquisitor seem selfish. In my head my Inquisitor loves Dorian and understands that Tevinter is very important to him. To me, part of love is also sacrificing my own wants/needs for the other person. He wants to be supportive of whatever Dorian wants to do, and if he feels that going to Tevinter is what he needs to do then he supports him in doing that, even if it's painful for him (and it's not like Dorian will be happy about it either). My Inquisitor wants him to know that his heart is still with Dorian, even 1000 miles away.

[Arlee]

I kind of knew what I was setting myself up for with that conversation, since spoilers, spoilers everywhere, but it just didn't feel right for my Inquisitor to emotionally manipulate Dorian into forgetting about his goals in Tevinter. I offered to go with him, which he turned down, and then just went 'well, if that's what you feel you need to do'

Still, knowing he'll leave did hurt...

 

We've had a few conversations about how the choices in that convo are woefully lacking and a bit messed-up >< I actually had a conversation with my husband in which he was a bit amused with me because irl I often TOTALLY miss subtext with people and generally need things explicitly expressed. But he explained it this way; the whole conversation wasn't really about Dorian wanting to leave or even about him really wanting go back and reform Tevinter. The conversation was really about Dorian wanting to be reassured his place in the Inquisition is an important one and that the Inquisitor really does want him him there. But because he's who he is he can't just come out and say any of that so he does this whole "maybe I should go back home" thing to see what you say.

 

To me that makes a whole lot of sense, and it also makes a ton of sense why Dorian reacts the way he does when you say you need him there. He says saying the emotional blackmail thing was just a joke, and after thinking of it in this way I think it was actually.

[nightscrawl]

^ Wow... that is actually extremely helpful. Thank the hubby for me!

 

That said, it seems like in most of the options he does say that he is staying "for now." So that certainly lends itself to the possibility that he may return either way. It also contributes to fun/angsty head canon things.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I agree. The fact that he's happiest if you "blackmail" him combined with his flimsy excuse why you can't just go with him to Tevinter definitely makes me feel like the primary objective of the conversation had very little to do with what was actually discussed.

[TheRatPack55]

 

 

Well... I feel bad now. I broke my love's heart and didn't even realize it.

 

..

 

...

 

I need to start a new playthrough.

[Nymeria Stark]

It's good to be self-aware enough to cut off the madness before it starts. I let it start, so now I have to reel it in.

 

If DAI's elf body models bother you so much, try Google Imaging Dragon Age 2 elves and stare at them for half an hour. DAI's elves will start to look really good by comparison.

 

I personally have a hard time identifying with human characters, but to each their own. I love elven characters most, and I love everything about them. From their collective history to their cultures to their non-DA2 body models. I also like dwarves a great deal, and enjoy playing as them and experiencing their culture and worldviews. Still a little on the fence about Qunari, but it's mostly because we're given so little information about what their lives are like in and out of the Qun. If I can't imagine what the character's life was like before the opening scene, I have a hard time getting into that character's skin and seeing the world from his or her eyes.

 

I agree about elves, i'm fine with their body models, in fact i like them skinny and it's one of the reasons i like to romance Dorian with elf, so i can be smaller in his strong arms, and it's funny to think he could probably pick elf up easily with one arm.    I also like humans, but on the other hand these seem too buffed up. It would be nice if there was option to change body type too, but it's easy to me, if i play rogue or mage i make elf, and if i want to play warrior i make human. I'm not very interested in dwarves or qunaris though.

 

 

Funny how that works out, isn't it? It's hard to believe that, before DAI came out, Sera was the romance I was most excited about, and Solas was the one I was least excited about. I also thought I would love Sera or Josephine most, and hate Cullen for being a Templar and Dorian for being from Tevinter. Oh, the irony. Sera and Josephine make me go "eh" romantically while Solas, Cullen and Dorian are my babes. The "Canon" Female Lavellan fell for Solas, and I made two extra Lavellans to romance Cullen and Dorian because I wound up liking them so much.

 

In fact, I never play male characters because I have a hard time identifying with them. (Also because the majority of main characters in movies and video games are male anyway, so I avoided them on principle as well as preference.) Even my ungodly love of Morrigan in DAO couldn't get me to play a male character just to romance her. But Dorian... Dorian managed to do the impossible. Against all expectations, I wound up not only liking him, but liking him enough to roll a male character. Not just once, but twice! First time just to experience it, the second time to experience it right.

 

I was exactly same as you, i never played male characters in RPGs where i can choose gender, because i thought it wouldn't be as immersive as playing a female. I only played males in those games that "force" you because the story is about that protagonist (like Assassin's Creed). But in RPGs like Elder Scrolls, Dragon Age, etc, i always played as female. I wasn't even interested in gay romance either. But Dorian changed all this, the moment i met him with female, and especially after his personal quest, when he apologized for flirting and said "in another life...", i knew i wanted to make a male to romance him, i didn't even had to think about it, i just knew i was going to do that. And it was probably one of the most immersive romances and PTs i had, so thanks Dorian for making me enjoy and immerse myself so much in gay male romance.   

[Fredward]

Can't say I agree myself. An optimal ending for me would have been if you could tell Dorian you wanted him to stay but he decided to go to Tevinter anyway. That would have shown me that he has grown into the kind of person who is both confident of the Inquisitor's lasting affection but not in any sense dependent on it. Or afraid that it will dissolve as soon as he turns his back. Instead he does a Leliana where a brief conversation seems to have character defining ramifications. So my reasoning is that he goes and in the future my Inquisitor can still show him that he's still there and still cares. The opposite being that he stays and gives up on such a vital aspect of himself, namely his love for his homeland and that desire for it to change. And what kind of message is that? You can have true love but you can ONLY have that? No Dorian! You can and will have both! Even if I have to kick your heart in the nuts!

[Arlee]

Can't say I agree myself. An optimal ending for me would have been if you could tell Dorian you wanted him to stay but he decided to go to Tevinter anyway. That would have shown me that he has grown into the kind of person who is both confident of the Inquisitor's lasting affection but not in any sense dependent on it. Or afraid that it will dissolve as soon as he turns his back. Instead he does a Leliana where a brief conversation seems to have character defining ramifications. So my reasoning is that he goes and in the future my Inquisitor can still show him that he's still there and still cares. The opposite being that he stays and gives up on such a vital aspect of himself, namely his love for his homeland and that desire for it to change. And what kind of message is that? You can have true love but you can ONLY have that? No Dorian! You can and will have both! Even if I have to kick your heart in the nuts!

 

I get what you are saying and I do agree, it would be nice if that's how it could go. But at the same time the indication from the devs is the events of Inquisition take place in about a year. Emotional baggage like this, which has occurred over years, isn't something most people can just get over in a year. So it seems fairly realistic he hasn't reached that point yet.

[nightscrawl]

I agree. The fact that he's happiest if you "blackmail" him combined with his flimsy excuse why you can't just go with him to Tevinter definitely makes me feel like the primary objective of the conversation had very little to do with what was actually discussed.

Dorian is certainly a contrarian, as the final scene illustrates. I guess I took him more seriously with this particular scene because of the topic that is being discussed and how it relates to other events in the game: everything he has said about Tevinter, in addition to his comments regarding what he learns at the Temple of Mythal. This is such a serious conversation that it really never occurred to me to look at it in this other way.

[Hazegurl]

Can't say I agree myself. An optimal ending for me would have been if you could tell Dorian you wanted him to stay but he decided to go to Tevinter anyway. That would have shown me that he has grown into the kind of person who is both confident of the Inquisitor's lasting affection but not in any sense dependent on it. Or afraid that it will dissolve as soon as he turns his back. Instead he does a Leliana where a brief conversation seems to have character defining ramifications. So my reasoning is that he goes and in the future my Inquisitor can still show him that he's still there and still cares. The opposite being that he stays and gives up on such a vital aspect of himself, namely his love for his homeland and that desire for it to change. And what kind of message is that? You can have true love but you can ONLY have that? No Dorian! You can and will have both! Even if I have to kick your heart in the nuts!

I agree, I wish I could have told Dorian that I loved him AND that I'll be waiting for him AND if he ever needed me I will be there.

 

I personally like all interpretations of that conversation because it does help me see a different perspective, but I do like the idea that Dorian is no longer fishing for reassurance. He should be sure of the IQ's love by the end of the story. Otherwise, what did he learn? I love telling Dorian to go but I also love telling him I need him because both are very human responses to the situation and I think the IQ can afford to be selfish here. From my IQ's perspective, Dorian may very well get himself killed over there so my IQ has a knee jerk response of keeping him by his side.  But he cannot control Dorian. He's his own man, with his own thoughts, dreams, and goals.  That's why I do enjoy Dorian telling my IQ that he is still going, just not soon.  My IQ's emotional blackmail doesn't work because he (Dorian) loves his country just as he loves the IQ and therefore he still must go.  It's now up to my IQ to accept whatever may happen and still love him and show him that it's not a one or the other type of deal.

[Marlena_8]

Anyway, Brain 2 saw this guy (male human 2) and now I have to restart. Send help.

I think I like Male Human 1.  Must be the scruff lol.

[Gervaise]

There is also the factor to consider that if you are in a friendship with Dorian, if I recall correctly, there is no indication of him wanting to rush off back to Tevinter.   He seems content with influencing his homeland from afar.   Yet the Inquisitor has done all the same things that he claims have inspired him to want to return home.

 

This is what makes me believe that this has more to do with his emotional insecurities than a pressing desire to return home.   He doesn't stay because he's afraid the Inquisitor won't be there for him if he pursues his avowed goal; he stays because he's finally acknowledged he is in a honest to goodness relationship.   He won't end up resenting the Inquisitor for preventing him from doing what he wants to do because that was never really the issue.    He has had a sort of emotional epiphany.   Bearing in mind what he had been through previously and that he had no point of reference, since his parents were in a loveless marriage and it is generally accepted that men don't have meaningful relationships with men in Tevinter, it is why I find it so wonderful that he wants to stay at the end because "there is no you in Tevinter", and "that's all that matters".    If anyone deserves to find love it is Dorian but he didn't believe the possibility even existed for him.   Now he knows it does.    Tevinter was what screwed him up so emotionally in the first place; why wouldn't he choose the Inquisitor over that and be glad to do so? 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Dorian is certainly a contrarian, as the final scene illustrates. I guess I took him more seriously with this particular scene because of the topic that is being discussed and how it relates to other events in the game: everything he has said about Tevinter, in addition to his comments regarding what he learns at the Temple of Mythal. This is such a serious conversation that it really never occurred to me to look at it in this other way.

Well, I said his primary objective wasn't the topic at hand, but I don't necessarily believe the whole thing is a ruse either. I don't think it's an either/or situation. Dorian is an intelligent guy who's capable of multitasking, and I do believe him about wanting to go back to Tevinter and change things, which is a goal I support as much as I selfishly wish he'd leave the cesspool of a country to rot. However, the way he dangles the relationship in front of the Inquisitor means that the whole Dorian's grown up about his need for reassurance in a short period of time theory not hold much weight for me. (And as someone who was also incredibly insecure about someone having feelings for me when I first started dating, you don't let go of your need to poke and prod someone for their reaction over night.) When the Inquisitor asks "What about us?" Dorian doesn't reassure the Inquisitor that he wants them to still be together even if they're apart, or offer a more final I can't be with anyone while I have this to accomplish sort of deal, instead he gives a vague, waffle-y "It would give me no pleasure to leave your side" which leave the ball in the Inquisitor's court in typical Dorian fashion, allowing him another opportunity for a safe exit or once again prove that he's committed to being together.

 

Of course the ideal compromise would either be

A) A concrete "we're together even if we have to be apart" statement

or

The Inquisitor comes with Dorian to Tevinter (of course this would really only work for Trevelyan and Cadash)

 

Unfortunately, the game doesn't let use resolve it with that amount of clarity, for now at least.

[Lee80]

Friendship Dorian will have the leaving for Tevinter conversation as well.  You just have less talking options.  If you talk to him right after "What Pride is wrought" you will get that conversation, or the one where he wants to leave the inquisition (negative friend points).

 

Also, I always pick the emotional blackmail as yall are calling it, but he still says he's leaving me.  Not sure if there's something I'm missing or some of you may be in denial of the ending be on rails for disappointment.  -shrug-   The wiki and all sources I can find tend to agree with me though, so....yeah.  

[Arlee]

Also, I always pick the emotional blackmail as yall are calling it, but he still says he's leaving me.  Not sure if there's something I'm missing or some of you may be in denial of the ending be on rails for disappointment.  -shrug-   The wiki and all sources I can find tend to agree with me though, so....yeah.  

 

That's odd. The first time i did it I picked the "I'd understand if you need to go" and at the end I get the dialogue where he said he would head back to Tevinter but not for awhile. Then I reloaded before that conversation and the only thing I did differently was I picked the "but I need you here" option and at the end he said he was staying. I wonder what other things have influence on that choice.

[Lee80]

That's odd. The first time i did it I picked the "I'd understand if you need to go" and at the end I get the dialogue where he said he would head back to Tevinter but not for awhile. Then I reloaded before that conversation and the only thing I did differently was I picked the "but I need you here" option and at the end he said he was staying. I wonder what other things have influence on that choice.

I don't know, if it really is an option at all I'd love to know how to make it happen.  

[Gervaise]

When I came here to ask, I was told that you simply needed to choose the "I need you option" for it to work.   Actually I listened to all 3 options, just to check how they differed and the fact that he said "and so my heart is broken" on the understanding your have to leave response, made me draw the conclusions I have outlined above.   I don't know if it works out differently if you drink from the well.    As I also explain, I didn't because he asked me not to, and so felt that I was justified in asking him to stay, whereas, if I had drunk, I would have regarded it as wrong to pressure him, even hypocritical since I would have put my own ambition for knowledge above any other consideration.   That's just me.   

 

I had also had the earlier talk about our future and came here complaining about how he mocked me when I said I wanted us to stay together.   I don't know if that conversation had any bearing on the outcome.    Nor do I know if it makes any difference if you've had a full on sexual relationship or the slow it down one (where technically you need never have done more than kissing),     Since I got him to stay after slowing it down clearly that isn't an issue.

 

I've been back to check the ending for my girl Lavellan, BFF Dorian.   At the party she specifically asks if he will be returning to Tevinter now and he says no, because "Tevinter lacks the presence of my best and only friend".     I was really touched by that and it was actually the only thing that brightened my mood after Solas had gone off without an explanation.     Now really the only thing my lover Lavellan has done differently is wanted to have a sexual relationship and also to keep Dorian with him at all times (which I don't think the game takes into account).   He didn't actually go to the Temple of Mythal with my friend Lavellan but I doubt that makes any difference, since people talk.    So I think that pretty much points to other than fervent need to reform Tevinter that causes him to act the way he does with his lover.

[Freedheart]

If I remember correctly, I did the 'i'll go with you', then, 'I understand' options and at the end he said he would stay until he got sick of Matteo...as if that could ever happen! 

[Arlee]

If I remember correctly, I did the 'i'll go with you', then, 'I understand' options and at the end he said he would stay until he got sick of Matteo...as if that could ever happen! 

 

I wonder if drinking from the well does matter. In mine for both I did do the "I'll go with you" option because I like it. But on the "I'd understand one" he said he would leave, and my character did drink from the well. He does disapprove when you drink from the well so I guess it could be approval related?

[tklivory]

Not related to the current conversation, I just wanted to come hug the sanest peeps on BSN. And no, you really don't want to know.

/that is all

[Dr. Doctor]

A joke from r/DragonAge. Why does Dorian give the best hickeys?

Spoiler

Because he's a neck romancer