I'd also like to know more about Dorian's mother, her personality, appearance, etc. It's a bit disappointing that there's so little information about her. It's left to headcanon, but the idea of Dorian's mother warning him about the blood ritual is a nice one.
On another note, i found this scruffy Dorian fanart
http://stonelions.tu...-about-dorian-w
This is just headcannon, but considering that Dorian comments that Mama Pavus frets over him like he's still five maybe she's the one who warned him about the blood ritual? If she's that overprotective and "can't stand" Halward then it would make sense that she'd warn her son that he might have been turned into a vegetable.
Also given how uptight and duty-bound Halward is, I'd imagine that Dorian gets his sharp tongue from his mother. Growing up with parents who loathed each other would explain how he can occasionally be unintentionally cruel with his choice of words.
I've seen you mention this before, but I'm not too convinced. Dorian doesn't say "He wanted a son who could become archon," he says, "They wanted a son who could become archon." Granted it would be the Pavus name that would carry on, but I don't put all of the ambition solely on Halward's shoulders. You don't think she, along with her house, would gain notoriety if her son were to become archon?
Dorian could have found out in any number of ways. He is intelligent and observant. If he saw signs or hints of blood magic use, which would be particularly alarming in his father's house, he might grow suspicious and have investigated further. He might have overheard gossiping servants. I don't know... it just seems to me that there might have been a stronger suggestion if it was Mom that warned him.
We don't know if his parents are even still living together, so she might not even be in a position to have found out. I think it's a good assumption that Halward has a residence in Minrathous, in addition to the family home in Qarinus. Perhaps he spends most of his time there.
Also, Dorian doesn't say that his mother "frets" over him. He says she treats him like he's five. There is a difference. Overbearing and controlling doesn't also equal caring.
D: This is all so familiar. I half expect my mother to materialize from the crowd and criticize my manners.
I: What if your mother were actually here? Where would we be then?
D: Short one mage, after he's dragged out by his earlobe.I: I'm having difficulty picturing that.
D: Picture me a young boy of five years, then. She certainly always has.
This scene, the banter about the boating, and the knowledge that his parents "loathed each other," are the only lines relating to Dorian's mother. Hardly anything at all to go on.
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I'll add that the letter Halward sends to Mother Giselle seems to be from both of the parents with the use of "we" and "us." And considering Dorian's disgusted reaction to it, I do wonder how much involvement, if any, his mother had in either the ritual or the attempt to get him back.
I should imagine that his mother never really got involved with his upbringing. Like a lot of upper class families in the past, he probably had a wet nurse when he was a baby and then slaves to care for his physical needs as he grew up. Hence the memory of his mother getting the servants/slaves to take him boating. It would seem if his mother got involved at all it would have been with regard to his behaviour, so he didn't let the family down in front of their friends.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the servants/slaves that let him know something was afoot with regard to the blood ritual. Then once he was aware that something was going on, he would have done a bit of investigation himself and discovered that what his father intended was meant for him. I very much doubt it was Felix since he was not part of the Pavus household and it is highly unlikely Halward would have involved Alexius in his plans because of the desire to keep the whole matter secret. His mother could have been the one to warn him but I think it unlikely. It is part of Tevinter culture that you don't have children, you breed offspring to continue the line. If his mother loathed his father so much, she might have been pleased to thwart his plans to have an heir but I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't even aware of it herself.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I always thought of Dorian as more of a "daddy's boy". This is based on everything we've heard of his father in conversations, letters and banter (especially with Cole). It seems there was a time when Halward was very proud of his son, and that son looked up to his father and even aspired to be like him. Take for example when Dorian says "He says we're alike. Too much pride. Once I would have been overjoyed to hear him say that". He also mentions his father is a good man, deep down, and that he was the one who taught him principle is important. It seems to me they shared a strong bond up until Dorian refused to continue with the blood line. That's when Halward's image of his perfect son is shattered to pieces and the bond is lost. He becomes desperate and plans to do the blood ritual. I do, however, not believe the love for his son is lost. He does apologize for what he tried to do (if you make them talk), which means he eventually saw the error of his ways. Though I wonder what would have happened if Dorian accepted his apology right there and returned with his father to Tevinter.
About his mother, from the little information we have it doesn't seem to me like they share a particularly close relationship. Partly because of the fact that he never talks about her much, but also from what he says when he does talk about her. Sending him on boat trips without actually going with him when he was still young? Treating him like he's five years old even as he is a grown man? I picture her being kind of like Cinderella's evil stepmother, but I might be completely off, haha. Who knows at this point, it's only speculation. All I know is he doesn't speak of her very fondly.
Halward is the one who writes the letter to Dorian, and even though he writes with the use of "we" and "us", I can't help but wonder if that's only to cover up the fact that she might not actually care. I also don't believe she was the one who told him about the ritual, I just don't see why she would do that. I'm leaning more towards Dorian having figured it out himself, as he is a clever man no doubt.
Something I'm curious about is how Dorian's parents found out about him preferring the company of men, as he puts it. Did he just straight up tell them (do people of Thedas actually "come out" to their families?) or did they find out in some other way? Maybe he was caught in act, so to speak. I know sexuality isn't a big deal in Thedas, but it is a big deal for someone of Dorian's rank in Tevinter, unfortunately.
Spoiler
I agree with you. I wanted to write something like that myself, but I was not able to do it.
Just saw Jupiter ascending tonight with my Hubby and I saw Ramon.
I got so excited I said " Oh my GOD it's the guy who does Dorians voice!"
I just about squeeled out loud lol
I knew he was in there and I still got worked up enough that I totally missed his entire 30 second speech while I turned to the spousal unit to whisper urgently, "Look! I told you he was in this!"
Oh well. Now I'll have to buy it on blu ray.
I should imagine that his mother never really got involved with his upbringing. Like a lot of upper class families in the past, he probably had a wet nurse when he was a baby and then slaves to care for his physical needs as he grew up. Hence the memory of his mother getting the servants/slaves to take him boating. It would seem if his mother got involved at all it would have been with regard to his behaviour, so he didn't let the family down in front of their friends.
Exactly. Children in great houses were usually summoned to visit with one or the other of their parents between tutoring and fostering. But from Dorian's behavior, he had enough evidence over the years to believe his parents loved him. He truly believed it, else it wouldn't hurt so much. Alone with her in his mother's salon may have been the times she let her guard down and displayed her affection and pride.
Halward just seems to have been better at it so Dorian is more attached to him. But Dorian also suffered from a bit of hero worship too that comes of not genuinely knowing his father. Dorian's angry retort about the letter may have been less truth and more heartfelt betrayal. But I've always taken that as a good sign that "both" parents were pursuing forgiveness.
Exactly. Children in great houses were usually summoned to visit with one or the other of their parents between tutoring and fostering. But from Dorian's behavior, he had enough evidence over the years to believe his parents loved him. He truly believed it, else it wouldn't hurt so much. Alone with her in his mother's salon may have been the times she let her guard down and displayed her affection and pride.
Halward just seems to have been better at it so Dorian is more attached to him. But Dorian also suffered from a bit of hero worship too that comes of not genuinely knowing his father. Dorian's angry retort about the letter may have been less truth and more heartfelt betrayal. But I've always taken that as a good sign that "both" parents were pursuing forgiveness.
Getting slightly off the subject of his parents, a rather odd thing just happened to me with Dorian. I'd been happily pursuing Cassandra, having thought I'd ended any chance of romantic liaison with Dorian, and we've enjoyed our candlelit assignation with poetry. So I go and talk to Dorian and he's still flirting with me, there's even a heart icon to tempt me. Does he not know about Cassandra I think? So I avoid the heart icon but still give a pretty flirty response. Then the next time I talk with him, he mentions how he's seen Cassandra blush on leaving a meeting with me. So he does know. What is going on? I thought there was a point past which you are locked into a romance and yet temptation has reared its ugly head. Or am I actually going to be able to continue flirting with Dorian for the rest of the game without it harming my relationship with Cassandra? I mean there's no way I'm going to cheat on her, poor thing, after telling her I love her and everything but I do quite like Dorian admiring my butt as I walk away, so what gives?
I actually never bought into Dorian's line "What my father knows of me could barely fill a thimble," and neither does Dorian himself. If he actually believed that then the Nightmare demon would not have taunted him with his father in the fade.
Something I'm curious about is how Dorian's parents found out about him preferring the company of men, as he puts it. Did he just straight up tell them (do people of Thedas actually "come out" to their families?) or did they find out in some other way? Maybe he was caught in act, so to speak. I know sexuality isn't a big deal in Thedas, but it is a big deal for someone of Dorian's rank in Tevinter, unfortunately.
Because of how homosexuality is viewed in Thedas he may not have felt the need to hide it at the time. Even for the elite it's not a big deal as long as it's for pleasure only, nothing more. If Dorian had played his role and carried on with other (noble) men, or slaves, in private, there would have been no problem.
It would be interesting to know when, for the young Dorian, it became more about wanting an emotional attachment and less about sex. This is probably when he realized there was a problem. You can think back to how the relationship with the Inquisitor develops to see how it might have gone. There is a physical attraction there yes, but the friendship develops first, then comes the possibility that it could be more intimate, and then they finally have sex. What does Dorian say afterward? They've had their "fun" and it could be left there, even though he wouldn't be happy about it. He's done this before and knows how it goes. I think it's a real testament to just how much he likes the Inquisitor, and also how much he wants the emotional connection, that he opens up as he does about everything in that scene. This is also the reason I prefer the sex version over the non-sex version.
I imagine that the first real crush Dorian had must have been emotionally devastating as he realized that he could never be with the person he wanted. At this point Dorian would understand that these feelings were incompatible with the future his father had planned for him and might have "closeted" himself. Not necessarily hiding the fact of his homosexuality, but not letting on that, for him, it's more than just a quirk and his preferred method of sexual pleasure. Dorian is not naive. He would have known this would eventually lead to conflict with his parents, and his father in particular.
What I think leads to the "What my father knows of me could barely fill a thimble" remark, which I regard as hyperbole, is not a lack of general knowledge of his son: his personality, his morality and principles (similar to Halward's own), but rather a lack of true understanding of the core of Dorian's being: the desire to be true to oneself, Dorian says as much during the post-tavern dialog. Halward himself bit the bullet and married, and had sex with, a woman he despised, so why shouldn't Dorian do the same? This is what Halward doesn't understand when it comes to his son.
It's interesting though. You have to be raised a certain way to believe that your own happiness is important. I'm not talking about being a spoiled rich noble, but about being loved by your parents and truly believing that they would want you to be happy. If Dorian didn't feel this, or placed priority in tradition and family legacy over his own happiness, then none of this would have happened. He would have gotten married and been miserable, and we would never have met him.
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Sorry I get carried away in writing these things.
Or am I actually going to be able to continue flirting with Dorian for the rest of the game without it harming my relationship with Cassandra? I mean there's no way I'm going to cheat on her, poor thing, after telling her I love her and everything but I do quite like Dorian admiring my butt as I walk away, so what gives?
Yes. You're on the friendship path with Dorian now and can continue with friendly flirting.
Something I'm curious about is how Dorian's parents found out about him preferring the company of men, as he puts it. Did he just straight up tell them (do people of Thedas actually "come out" to their families?) or did they find out in some other way? Maybe he was caught in act, so to speak. I know sexuality isn't a big deal in Thedas, but it is a big deal for someone of Dorian's rank in Tevinter, unfortunately.
Getting slightly off the subject of his parents, a rather odd thing just happened to me with Dorian. I'd been happily pursuing Cassandra, having thought I'd ended any chance of romantic liaison with Dorian, and we've enjoyed our candlelit assignation with poetry. So I go and talk to Dorian and he's still flirting with me, there's even a heart icon to tempt me. Does he not know about Cassandra I think? So I avoid the heart icon but still give a pretty flirty response. Then the next time I talk with him, he mentions how he's seen Cassandra blush on leaving a meeting with me. So he does know. What is going on? I thought there was a point past which you are locked into a romance and yet temptation has reared its ugly head. Or am I actually going to be able to continue flirting with Dorian for the rest of the game without it harming my relationship with Cassandra? I mean there's no way I'm going to cheat on her, poor thing, after telling her I love her and everything but I do quite like Dorian admiring my butt as I walk away, so what gives?
While there are only so many times you can get people who hate each other to sleep together I'm surprised that House Pavus has no contingency plan. Given that no magical potential, sickness, accident, and assassins that make the Crows seem quaint are all possibilities there's nobody in the family who could take Dorian's position?
You make a good point. But perhaps Dorian's mother, Scarlett O'Hara-like, hated being pregnant and hated being a mother. This, in addition to hating her husband and having uncomfortable sex with said husband, would not be conducive to producing more than one child. There could very well have been a "you have your heir, now leave me the f alone," kind of thing.
There is also the possibility that the first pregnancy was difficult and it was suggested she not have any more children. Or perhaps they tried and there were miscarriages. It could be any number of things, really. Although I do admit that "an heir and a spare" is helpful most of the time.
With the emphasis on inheritance, I would assume that Dorian's mother wasn't able to have anymore children. I doubt any noble families would only have one child by choice.
This is particularly volatile when it comes to the magic issue. Since magic doesn't manifest until the onset of puberty there is considerable time between having the child and knowing whether it will actually be a mage. I don't doubt that the Tevinter breeding records are quite detailed, but nothing is 100% guaranteed. Their one child turning out to be a "dud" would certainly have sucked. Although I wonder if he would still have been able to be married off. Just because the magic gene didn't express for him doesn't mean it couldn't for any of his offspring, and being from the Pavus and <name> bloodlines would carry quite the pedigree.
Another thought: I've always wondered at Dorian's wording when he talks about his parents' marriage. "My mother was chosen for my father because magic runs strongly in her blood." Does this mean that his mother is NOT a mage as well? Am I reading too much into that?
Because of how homosexuality is viewed in Thedas he may not have felt the need to hide it at the time. Even for the elite it's not a big deal as long as it's for pleasure only, nothing more. If Dorian had played his role and carried on with other (noble) men, or slaves, in private, there would have been no problem.
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Sorry I get carried away in writing these things.
Dorian described the view of homosexuality in Tevinter "its just for pleasure" and Halward's character notes reference that he views his son as being "only interested in pursuing idle pleasures". So it would seem that Halward was under the impression that Dorian just wanted to carry on Tyrion Lannister-style instead of growing up and accepting his responsibilities.
Yes, you are of course both right. What I meant with "a big deal for someone of Dorian's rank" is when you take it beyond pleasure, so far as to abandon your duties.
And don't worry, nightscrawl, I enjoyed reading all of it! This is the Dorian thread, yes? 
I think your opinions on the whole "What my father knows of me could barely fill a thimble" matches with Dr. Doctor's mention of Halward's thoughts of him (the "only interested in pursuing idle pleasures" part). Halward is used to live a life of duty whereas his son is willing to give up everything for his own happiness. To him that means betraying the family and everything that the house of Pavus stands for. It's selfish. But that's what makes Dorian so brave; to stand up for himself even if it means he will be kicked out, shamed and lose everything in the process.
With the emphasis on inheritance, I would assume that Dorian's mother wasn't able to have anymore children. I doubt any noble families would only have one child by choice.
Well, they raised a son who refused to have any children... Maybe they really did it once 
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So I think my favorite fabric for Dorian is King's willow weave. The man rocks gold.
Edit (from my digital camera):
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I always thought of Dorian as more of a "daddy's boy". This is based on everything we've heard of his father in conversations, letters and banter (especially with Cole). It seems there was a time when Halward was very proud of his son, and that son looked up to his father and even aspired to be like him. Take for example when Dorian says "He says we're alike. Too much pride. Once I would have been overjoyed to hear him say that". He also mentions his father is a good man, deep down, and that he was the one who taught him principle is important. It seems to me they shared a strong bond up until Dorian refused to continue with the blood line. That's when Halward's image of his perfect son is shattered to pieces and the bond is lost. He becomes desperate and plans to do the blood ritual. I do, however, not believe the love for his son is lost. He does apologize for what he tried to do (if you make them talk), which means he eventually saw the error of his ways. Though I wonder what would have happened if Dorian accepted his apology right there and returned with his father to Tevinter.
About his mother, from the little information we have it doesn't seem to me like they share a particularly close relationship. Partly because of the fact that he never talks about her much, but also from what he says when he does talk about her. Sending him on boat trips without actually going with him when he was still young? Treating him like he's five years old even as he is a grown man? I picture her being kind of like Cinderella's evil stepmother, but I might be completely off, haha. Who knows at this point, it's only speculation. All I know is he doesn't speak of her very fondly.
Halward is the one who writes the letter to Dorian, and even though he writes with the use of "we" and "us", I can't help but wonder if that's only to cover up the fact that she might not actually care. I also don't believe she was the one who told him about the ritual, I just don't see why she would do that. I'm leaning more towards Dorian having figured it out himself, as he is a clever man no doubt.
Something I'm curious about is how Dorian's parents found out about him preferring the company of men, as he puts it. Did he just straight up tell them (do people of Thedas actually "come out" to their families?) or did they find out in some other way? Maybe he was caught in act, so to speak. I know sexuality isn't a big deal in Thedas, but it is a big deal for someone of Dorian's rank in Tevinter, unfortunately.
I think Halward was more of a hands on parent while the mother probably wasn't as much (ex: Boating with the servants). But I don't think it means that one parent was better than the other or more loving than the other. They are a wealthy family and I doubt many women would be out boating with their kids in her position. There's no mention of Halward at all on the boat either. But then again they don't seem to get along at all so i doubt they had many family activities together.
I thought the dragging Dorian out by his ear and treating him like he's five was adorable. I don't think it's meant to be taken as his mother disrespecting him but that most parents will always view their children as children no matter their age, and perhaps if she saw him guzzling as much drinks as he's known to, it's something that may be worth a drag out by the ear. lol!
I get the impression that Mama Pavus is more of the tough love type, the "you're not too old to get thrown over my knee." type. While Halward was the softer parent. Ironically enough, there is no mention of the mother being involved at all in the blood ritual nor in any sort of harassment about him marrying. Not that I remember. That seems to be the issue with the softer parent.
So because we occasionally talk about the voice actors here, I've recently had a chance to see the British Inquisitor VA on the season 5 finale of Downton Abbey. It was really fun to see and hear him -- with quite a few lines! -- since there is no picture on IMDb. One thing that did occur to me is that I don't think that his voice is very distinctive. I'm usually able to recognize someone by hearing them (I focus on a specific sound or syllable and my mind goes from there), but I found out after the fact that it was him. After re-watching it I was able to hear it, but I wouldn't have recognized him on my own. I think being non-distinctive is probably a good thing in this case and may have even been something the Bioware folks intentionally looked for. Not only did you need to have a voice that could fit multiple races, but one that could also be used to RP a variety of Inquisitor types. On the other hand, I felt that Nicholas Boulton as the male Hawke was incredibly distinctive, so who knows.
I also discovered another DAI VA in the Downton cast, but he has the unfortunate credit of Additional Voices, so I'll have to pay more attention the next time I do a full run through.
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