22176 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

In WoT, we get "You asked about that young nutter who ran off to the South to cause trouble. Well, here's the word on the street." It's different from David Gaider or Patrick Weekes writing a straightforward entry that says "Here is Dorian. In his youth he (insert past here). He is written as (alcoholic/racist/self-destructive/a slavery apologist/whatever) because we wanted to explore (themes) in this game". It's also different from the art book, which was very much behind the scenes, here-is-where-we-were-going-with-this-character. In short, it's a creative writing exercise, not a documentary.

I had only seen that single page and wasn't able to find others when I looked through the Amazon search (I did make the effort, because Dorian). After more digging I was able to find the second page (leading into Blackwall's bio), but still not the first, and I do see what you mean. So now I feel like an ass.

 

That said, I am still inclined to believe that it is mostly true, even if they did choose this style of writing about it -- the remarks in that letter about the guys being "so wrapped up in their efforts they didn't even realize men were dying right outside their door" was hilarious. I do see your, and others' point, and of course it also goes to the point Dorian made himself about his own reputation. But I also think it seems rather pointless to write it in such a ways as to deliberately want the players to question the veracity of the text, rather than it just being a stylistic choice on the part of the writer.

 

And I point again to my remark about the "unreliable narrator" being used as the excuse for many of DA2's flaws. Because I can guarantee that this same excuse will be used with the information in this book -- not solely regarding Dorian -- which is the reason I responded in the way that I did. So again, I do apologize.

[Gervaise]

Like I say above, I'm sure what is written is predominately true but that the author may have exaggerated a bit.    Quoting from actual letters among the Altus tends to lend credence to what the author asserts.    Clearly what they don't know is that Halward was thinking of using blood magic on his son and that was the reason for the final breach between them.     I'm surprised the author thinks that Dorian's relatives are chagrined by his exploits with the Inquisition; I must admit I thought Halward would finally have something he could be proud of.    Mind you if he is no longer part of the Archon's inner circle then he probably wouldn't know about the Archon's personal request to the Inquisition to deal with the Venatori, so may be publically the Magisters don't show approval of the Inquisition.

 

I'm glad to see the question of whether Dorian returns to Tevinter or not is left open in the text, so hopefully it remains that way.  

 

I also note it says that Alexius and his son died in the south, which would seem to suggest that WoT follows the Templar/Calpurnia path rather than the Hushed Whispers one.     Otherwise surely the author would know that Felix returned to speak in the Senate House, even if the fate of Alexius was unknown. 

[nightscrawl]

Quoting from actual letters among the Altus tends to lend credence to what the author asserts.

Hah... As amusing as it was, that is actually one example where I was thinking there might have been exaggeration on the part of the letter writers because it is sourced as "Correspondence between magister rivals of Halward." And of course those people won't have anything nice to say, and the levels of schadenfreude would be high as they gloat over their rival's reduction in esteem.

 

I'm surprised the author thinks that Dorian's relatives are chagrined by his exploits with the Inquisition; I must admit I thought Halward would finally have something he could be proud of.

Unless the person is redeemed in a really spectacular fashion, I imagine that at some point they (the family in general, not Halward) became happy that Dorian was "out of sight, out of mind," and were irritated when his name popped up again in connection with the troublesome upstart, Chantry separatist Inquisition led by a (soporati, elf, dwarf, Qunari, or even just a lowly, poorly-educated southern mage). That's how I took it.
 
However, I don't think that applies to Halward, who will have a different view of it altogether.

I also note it says that Alexius and his son died in the south, which would seem to suggest that WoT follows the Templar/Calpurnia path rather than the Hushed Whispers one.

Ooh, thanks for pointing that out. I've never finished a templar run so I don't normally consider the results of that version when looking at plot info like this.

[Norina]

I've been busy and haven't kept up with the forums. I was about to get back to lurking when I saw something about Dorian's background story...

 

Need to order the World of Thedas Vol. 2 right now!

[JohnstonMR]

Hey guys!  I've been gone for, oh, 100+ pages of posts I am NOT going to go read, because anything that gets my blood pressure up will have already been handled, I'm sure.  But just wanted to say I'm glad you're all still here. 

 

What I'm not so glad about is that I seem to have lost my enthusiasm for the game.  I finished it, then I DLed the DLC as soon as it was available... and I've done nothing with it.  I went to the new area, but then just stopped.  Not sure why.

 

So, tell me--is the story of the DLC worth playing? Or is it just a bunch of side quests? 

[Gervaise]

Absolutely worth playing if you are interested in improving your lore.   The Avaar are really interesting and finding out about the last Inquisitor is a real eye opener.   Suggest you leave until after Main Game, unless you particularly want you know who with you.   I would recommend taking Dorian, Cole and Cassandra, since each would appear to have special dialogue (although I have to admit that I haven't taken anyone else yet apart from Vivienne and Sera - very briefly since she wasn't happy about certain things so I suppose you can count that as special dialogue too).

 

I've just reloaded my save before the tryst in Inquisitor's quarters with Dorian in the main game.   Wanted to refresh my memory of what he says when I ask him to slow things down.   When he says that by his standards the developments have been positively glacial, it made me snigger in the light of what we now know.    Then I opted for a choice I hadn't made before when he is questioning the wisdom of having a proper relationship, which was basically why not?   Apparently I'm asking him to be a unicorn when he has no idea what one looks like.   He does have a lovely turn of phrase.   Interesting to know that he does believe in unicorns; do you suppose we'll get to see one someday?  

[Nymeria Stark]

This fanart is so beautiful. And even better in high res

 

 

http://xiahki.tumblr...way-to-ruin-our

[FantiSci]

 

And I point again to my remark about the "unreliable narrator" being used as the excuse for many of DA2's flaws. Because I can guarantee that this same excuse will be used with the information in this book -- not solely regarding Dorian -- which is the reason I responded in the way that I did. So again, I do apologize.

 

No harm, no foul - the second page is the big giveaway regarding the possibility that the article is not-entirely-neutral, so if you hadn't seen it, it wouldn't be so obvious. No need to feel bad about it.

 

I agree that screaming "UNRELIABLE NARRATOR!" every time something you don't like happens is silly. I would say though, that there are circumstances where the UN makes sense - such as the whole Bianca thing (Why would Varric share the messy details of his love life in such an off-hand manner to the Inquisitor, who is a relatively new friend, but not to Hawke, his best pal for a decade? Well, he probably did tell Hawke...but he wouldn't let Cassandra know that!), but it's not a get-out-of-jail-free card for unpleasant plot points or shoddy writing. 

 

The "bias" doesn't prevent the reader from figuring out the key facts though. A good example is the whole mess that happens when Dorian returns to seek out Alexius. The entry goes for a snide letter and bringing up Dorian's "life of debauchery". We can tell that the letter writer hates Halward and revels in his son's fall from grace - in fact, there may be a dose of pure jealousy in there, as there's no denying that Dorian is a highly talented mage (and so a possible rival to the letter writer...or the letter writer's heirs). Given the speaker, even the incident where the guys are *ahem* busy when they are attacked becomes at least a little bit suspect: it's the kind of juicy lie (that's close enough to the truth) that you'd throw in to make the story more interesting (although...yes, that is a funny image. Unless you were one of the guards). However, you could just as easily have couched the whole episode in sympathetic terms, and get the same facts across - for example:

 

"Dorian truly believed that Alexius would regain his senses, but as time went by it became clear that the alteration in his mentor's attitude was long term - if not permanent. He left the estate, wandering Tevinter and attempting to escape the notice of his family. Unfortunately, he was inexperienced in the art of evading detection, and his nature did not run to subtlety or tact. Word of his "excesses" reached his father's ears, and Halward hired a group of mercenaries to retrieve his wayward son shortly after Dorian  visited - and began a relationship with - the son of Lord Abrexis. Dorian and his friend, expecting no danger in the Lord's house, were dragged from their bed in the middle of the night by the hired thugs, who had invaded the castle and murdered the guardsmen."

 

Same information, totally different "voice." The persona behind the article appears to be mainly siding with Halward, maintaining that his "hand was forced" into abducting his adult son and hinting at some regret over Halward's subsequent political problems. There's also some respect for Alexius, doing his ally a favour by taking his troublemaking son under his wing. It has far less vitriol than the writer of the letter, but they still have a point of view - much like Brother Genitivi's encyclopedia entries, which try hard to be fair but are ultimately written by an Andrastian monk.

 

I probably take this side because I love additional lore written in the "voice" of a fantasy world. I have great fun with fantasy historical documents, astrology and fairy tales - it brings the setting to life, and helps convince you that yes, there are writers and researchers and other people in this world who aren't wandering around murdering dragons. (I personally think the Deptford Mice author, Robin Jarvis, did one of the best lore books, but Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are the ones that people tend to remember best).

 

Or I could be totally wrong. Still, the absence of the blood-magic ritual from the WoT entry makes me think "character author" rather than "real life" author.

 

 

  Apparently I'm asking him to be a unicorn when he has no idea what one looks like.   He does have a lovely turn of phrase.   Interesting to know that he does believe in unicorns; do you suppose we'll get to see one someday?  

 

Dorian definitely has a thing about unicorns - he calls an optimistic/gentle-natured Inquisitor one, and grumbles about being turned into one by a chaste Inquisitor (grumbling about the lack of sex, perhaps?). One of the reasons why he makes me smile - for someone that claims to be a realist, he does like his mythical creatures. I wonder if Thedas has the same unicorn myths that we do? I remember Weekes saying that he now had free rein to add lots of sexy unicorns now that he's lead writer (!), but I don't think we'd see any talking animals, or ones more intelligent than the Mabari. However, we do have dragons and griffins...Perhaps, if Thedas has/had unicorns, they're linked to one of the older civilisations or more distant? Elves would be the far-too-obvious choice, but Qunari unicorns would be interesting.

 

I think classic unicorns are a little to pure-hearted and bright for Thedas, but we might see a unicorn or similar species with a twist (see: Bog Unicorn).

 

That said, I would kill for a "Find Dorian a Unicorn" quest.

 

"HI LOVE! I FOUND YOU A MAGIC PONY! :D"

[tklivory]

Can you imagine how Dorian would react if DAI had a hidden level similar to Diablo III's hidden level?

 

[Dr. Doctor]

Can you imagine how Dorian would react if DAI had a hidden level similar to Diablo III's hidden level?
 

Dorian: Look Amatus unicorns! And look at the colors!

Inquisitor: You spiked his water skin with Aqua Lucidius again didn't you?

Sera: It's good innit?

[Joe25]

Can you imagine how Dorian would react if DAI had a hidden level similar to Diablo III's hidden level?

 

Spoiler

I am only okay with this if it is like the Tinny Tina DLC; only, the Inquisitor and team are in the Fade trying to save Sera from becoming a demon puppet.   

[nightscrawl]

Hey guys!  I've been gone for, oh, 100+ pages of posts I am NOT going to go read, because anything that gets my blood pressure up will have already been handled, I'm sure.  But just wanted to say I'm glad you're all still here. 
 
What I'm not so glad about is that I seem to have lost my enthusiasm for the game.  I finished it, then I DLed the DLC as soon as it was available... and I've done nothing with it.  I went to the new area, but then just stopped.  Not sure why.
 
So, tell me--is the story of the DLC worth playing? Or is it just a bunch of side quests?

Well, there are side quests, but the main lore stuff is great too. Learning about the first Inquisitor was pretty fantastic. The Avvar are also interesting, and a refreshing change from some of the other cultural groups in Thedas.

For me, the best part about the DLC was was the Frostback Basin area. It is wonderfully done, and IMO the most artfully crafted zone in the entire game. It's really worth exploring every nook, cranny, and gigantic vine. Of course, if you're not into forested areas, your mileage may vary...

[Kierro Ren]

I asked this was awhile, but I forget the response. When there's a gay couple, either in fan art, movies, TV shows, or whatever else. Why is it, they usually seem SOOO much more cuter, then a man and a female character?

[nightscrawl]

^ I'm not sure what you're referring to as "cute" here. Do you mean the general physical appearance of the couple? Do you mean the way they interact with each other and the affection they show (i.e. "They're so cute together")?

 

If it's the first, well that certainly is subjective based on your own preference and what you consider "cute." I'm aware of three recent examples of older gay couples: Vicious (show), Grace and Frankie (show), and Love Is Strange (movie), that I don't consider cute physically, but I'm sure are cute with each other (erm, sort of in the case of Vicious, which is the only one of the three I've seen).

 

If it's the second, I have... some cynical thoughts on that, mostly related to heterosexual couples being seen as "normal" whose open affection might be considered trite. I've been guilty of this myself on occasion, but that is primarily because I'm pleased to see the positive, or non-stereotypical portrayal. It's kind of like the interracial Cheerios commercial (part 2). All Cheerios commercials are cute, but that one was cute and exceptional because of the family they chose to use, so you get the happy feeling of, "Oh wow, yay!" when you see such an example.

 

But, that also depends on your perspective. My current favorite (and cute) fictional couple is the wife/husband combo on Madam Secretary; still in love and into each other after 25 years of marriage, three kids, and insane jobs. Although I think one of the main reasons I like their relationship is that it is a source of stability for that show, rather than a source of angst, as it might be with other shows.

 

What I would like to see is some show or movie where the sexuality isn't an issue at all, in the same way it is for heterosexual couples, which I don't think we've really been given yet (admittedly I don't watch a lot of TV). If the main character on Madam Secretary were gay and had a wife and three kids, I don't really see how that would change much about the show, aside from the required, introductory noises, "Omg the president appointed a(n openly) gay Secretary of State!"

 

I know there is a m/m couple on this season of The Walking Dead (erm, hopefully they're both still alive), but that's pretty much all I know about them since I just happened to catch a scene where they were reunited after some danger and kissed; I don't watch the show. In that particular case, it seems logical to me that, in a post-apocalyptic world with zombies, no one would really give a damn.

[trevelyan_shep]

I think my Dorian romance is glitches which makes me very sad. Ah, let's hope I'm wrong though.

[shinynotshiny]

I asked this was awhile, but I forget the response. When there's a gay couple, either in fan art, movies, TV shows, or whatever else. Why is it, they usually seem SOOO much more cuter, then a man and a female character?

 

Well, I don't know what you mean by "cute," but m/m couples can break stereotypes about masculinity. Maybe they're a bit more open, sensitive, or affectionate. Like Nightscrawl said, m/m couples are "new" or "unique" in comparison to m/f couples. People are used to m/f dynamics, whereas m/m couples offer something different. On the other hand, you see m/m couples that mirror m/f couples and have a stereotypical dominant/submissive or masculine/feminine dynamic. I see this quite often in fan art, fan fic, etc. Some people might find that relatable and cute.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

On the other hand, you see m/m couples that mirror m/f couples and have a stereotypical dominant/submissive or masculine/feminine dynamic. I see this quite often in fan art, fan fic, etc. Some people might find that relatable and cute.

Or vomit inducing, especially when it's completely OOC for the character(s) they claim to be a fan of.

 

Anyway, I would say it's due to the nicheness. You can't spit without hitting a straight couple, but same-sex couples are still rare in media, particularly male ones that are in commited relationships rather than just a token chaste or promiscous character.

[shinynotshiny]

Or vomit inducing, especially when it's completely OOC for the character(s) they claim to be a fan of.

 

Anyway, I would say it's due to the nicheness. You can't spit without hitting a straight couple, but same-sex couples are still rare in media, particularly male ones that are in commited relationships rather than just a token chaste or promiscous character.

 

I agree. Some people have it in their heads that all relationships follow a stereotypical m/f dynamic.

[Gervaise]

Actually the oldest unicorn legends have a real underlying sexual theme.   I would have loved to be able to say to Dorian, "It's a magical creature with a big horn that can only be tamed by a virgin.   I'd say we've got it nailed"  (My Inquisitor is a virgin when he begins his relationship with Dorian).   When you also consider that the unicorn submits by placing its head in the virgin's lap......!

 

I wish in a way that the romance followed a slightly different path if you choose the let's develop our emotional relationship before our physical one.   There is no real acknowledgement in any of the following dialogues that you have done anything different.     I suppose the writers wanted to leave it up to you (same as with Solas) whether actually anything does happen and when but to some extent it feels like something is missing.   Mind you I was able to account for Dorian's snarky comments in response to one of our chats about the future by putting it down to sexual frustration because my lad had been holding out on him.    

 

I'm pretty sure those WoT entries are a bit wonky on the timescales involved concerning Dorian's past life compared with what he tells you.   From what I recall he says that he was still working with Alexius right up to the time that Felix was infected and his wife killed.    Dorian, by his own admission, was not as understanding as he should have been about the impact on Alexius, walked out and probably went back on the razzle.   You are left to assume this was the point where Halward tried to mind alter him.   He escapes and receives the letter from Alexius inviting him to join him.   Follows him south, finds out what is going on and tries to stop him.

 

Note the WoT entry has him leaving Alexius, going on the razzle, Halward imprisoning him for months, him escaping and then 2 years passing before he gets the letter from Alexius.   In the letter to the other mage he says that something must have happened to Alexius or Felix to account for his strange behaviour.    Now according to the previous entry he does know about the darkspawn attack and apparently helped Alexius concoct the magical formula that allows Felix to have survived for 2 years after the attack and still be in such good shape as we find him at the beginning of Hushed Whispers.   Yet within a year of that he is little more than a walking corpse.   In any case, the game makes it clear, as does the WoT entry, that the reason he joins up with the Venatori is because they maintain they can save Felix, which he is unable to do on his own.     Would Dorian really have ignored his friend Felix for 2 years if he knew he was sick and dying from the taint?   I very much doubt it; he would have kept in touch at least by letter and so would have been kept informed of what was going on.   If Felix had actually died it would be more understandable that he totally lost hope but to ignore the man who had put his life back on track after the turmoil of his youth and his son, who should both have been considered close friends, makes Dorian come across in a rather unfavourable light.

 

I can understand Dorian not wanting to reveal all the details of his sordid past to his friend/lover but effectively losing two years from the time he left Alexius and muddling the reason behind it seems a bit of a stretch.    The original story he told was believable and sufficient to account for his behaviour and that of his family.   The first part of his life given in WoT explained the bond he had with Alexius and Felix.   Why did the writers of WoT feel the need to expand it like they did in the second part?    It is that 2 year timescale that seems off.   

 

In the game he says "May be it is selfish, not wanting to live your life screaming on the inside", and you can sympathise with him, tell him you think he is brave to reject these cultural expectations like he did.    It is clear he has been screwed up emotionally by the events of his past but he comes across as caring and that comment in itself shows a degree of self awareness.   He clearly cares about Felix and admires him and is sorry he wasn't more understanding of Alexius.    May be it is the events at the beginning of DAI that have brought about this reflective state but I'm finding it hard to reconcile the Dorian we meet in the game with the sort of guy who would ignore his mentor and friend for 2 years whilst basically indulging himself out of self pity and helplessness.

[nightscrawl]

I agree. Some people have it in their heads that all relationships follow a stereotypical m/f dynamic.

A while ago we had a discussion on some peoples' fixations with m/m couples and the top/bottom dynamic, and I suppose this goes along with that. I guess those folks have never heard of pegging... (Don't wikipedia that one at work -- general statement, not necessarily to you, Shiny.)

 

Would Dorian really have ignored his friend Felix for 2 years if he knew he was sick and dying from the taint? I very much doubt it; he would have kept in touch at least by letter and so would have been kept informed of what was going on. If Felix had actually died it would be more understandable that he totally lost hope but to ignore the man who had put his life back on track after the turmoil of his youth and his son, who should both have been considered close friends, makes Dorian come across in a rather unfavourable light.

...

In the game he says "May be it is selfish, not wanting to live your life screaming on the inside", and you can sympathise with him, tell him you think he is brave to reject these cultural expectations like he did. It is clear he has been screwed up emotionally by the events of his past but he comes across as caring and that comment in itself shows a degree of self awareness. He clearly cares about Felix and admires him and is sorry he wasn't more understanding of Alexius. May be it is the events at the beginning of DAI that have brought about this reflective state but I'm finding it hard to reconcile the Dorian we meet in the game with the sort of guy who would ignore his mentor and friend for 2 years whilst basically indulging himself out of self pity and helplessness.

IMO this really depends on Dorian's mentality at the time. He does care about his friends, but can also be a little self-absorbed, prideful, and stubborn. So if he was in a place mentally where he was just "F everyone and everything," I can see how he might not have tried to reestablish contact until he was finally able to see what an ass he'd been, not only to one of his friends, but to the man that basically gave him a second chance in life.

In the game he says of the quarrel with Alexius, "Later, I regretted my hasty words." In this case, "later," while it does appear to be a relatively short time the way he phrases it, is really indeterminate.
 
Also, we see from the letter to his Circle pal that he has become suspicious of Alexius's behavior because it is contrary to everything he knows about the man. At this point he was estranged from his family, so he really had nothing to lose by following Alexius down south to confirm his suspicions.
 
On the second page, it says he was held a "veritable prisoner in [the family's] Qarinus estate for months," that he eventually escaped, "vowing never to return." I do find the omission of the blood magic ritual interesting, because it is almost a wink to the player who does know about it. And then he drifts around for the next two years until he is contacted by Alexius again.
 
It does not say whether he returned to his debauchery or not, but I do wonder whether the betrayal by his father may have been so devastating as to basically get him to move past that behavior; to borrow a phrase, he hit "rock bottom." Part of the reason may also be that he simply didn't have the resources to live that sort of life. Granted, he may have shacked up with another friend-with-benefits as he did previously, or not, we can't really know. BUT, two years is a long time to be living this kind of life without an intelligent person like Dorian also taking the time to evaluate his choices and his potential future.
 
Our true natures are revealed by how we overcome adversity and how we react when presented with problems that challenge our morality. Dorian's initial method to deal with adversity was with spite and self-destructive behavior. But later on we see his true worth when he joins the Inquisition; not to spite his father or shame the Pavus name, not to have a place to sleep, not to hook up with a guy, but because "it's the right thing to do."
 
If there is anything to take away from the WoT entry it is that Dorian matures a great deal.
 

However, I agree that the timeline might be a bit wonky. There are some dates on those pages, but I'll have to wait until I can read everything together, take it along with the game dialog, and see how it works out. Some of it may also be just our perception of the timeline based on the way Dorian tells it. This would be different from say, the whole Anders timeline debacle with the events of DAA to DA2 being too close chronologically to have taken place in sequence because we have actual dates to go on, rather than someone's vague phrasing of events.

[nightscrawl]

To shift the subject a bit to the alternate things Dorian says, in my current play I finally decided to see the version where the IQ just gives Dorian the amulet without ever having spoken to him about it. While his reaction was adorable, I found the differences in his reason when asked why to be interesting.

 

If you ask him about it before going to see Ponchard, he says that when he got down south he didn't have "much in the way of coin" and so he sold it. But if you ask him in the alternate, surprise gift path he says that he wanted to rid himself of anything reminding him of his family, and that during their meeting his father noticed its absence (does this remark only appear if you reconcile them?)

 

The differences are interesting to me because it seems each path has a revealing nugget that you don't get to see otherwise. If you take him with you to see Ponchard, you get the amazing, "Kaffas. I know what you think. And he's not my friend. He's... never mind what he is." I like this so much because it really seems like a great lead-in to the post-sex dialog and his uncertainty. This version also plays directly into Dorian's reasoning for not wanting the IQ to help him get it back and his followup explanation at Skyhold.

 

On the other hand, the surprise gift path is nice because he really just seems stunned into revealing something about himself. And while that information makes sense in light of what we've learned about him thus far (during The Last Resort of Good Men), having him state it directly -- something he rarely does -- is rather nice.

[Kierro Ren]

^ I'm not sure what you're referring to as "cute" here. Do you mean the general physical appearance of the couple? Do you mean the way they interact with each other and the affection they show (i.e. "They're so cute together")?

 

Well, I did say usually, but I know not all couples are. I was more meaning the second way. 

[Gervaise]

That comment to Kaffas goes just as well with the dialogue if you don't have sex straight away because clearly Dorian has no idea what sort of relationship he's got into; Dorian being rendered speechless was priceless.     After playing it again, whilst it means you don't get to see Dorian naked, I really prefer taking that option because I actually think it is good for him not to have his expectations realised, yet not rejected either.   It took tremendous self control on the part of my Lavellan (me) not to capitulate and remain true to himself.   After Dorian kisses him (which I was very good at imagining how passionate he would make it just to let him know what he's missing), I loved that look on Lavellan's face when he's clearly looking a tad wistful and wondering if he did the right thing.  

 

The only thing I find a bit odd about Dorian's scepticism about the lasting nature of the relationship is that if he has absolutely no experience of a proper relationship, what basis does he have to go on?    I mean if he had had his heart broken like Solas did my girl, then I could understand it.   If his parents and most other people have arranged marriages, that isn't much to go on either, since they seem to stay together whilst loathing it.  You could argue that he is cynical about relationships generally because of his past but Alexius never actually betrayed him personally, neither did Felix and he seems to have no such doubts about a friend Inquisitor.    So I can understand him not knowing what to expect from a relationship but not that he should be so negative about its outcome.    However, he makes that comment about "being a port in a storm before", that makes me wonder if there was someone, perhaps in that 2 year period, that he does not want to admit to and that is why he is constantly expecting to have his heart broken.

[shinynotshiny]

A while ago we had a discussion on some peoples' fixations with m/m couples and the top/bottom dynamic, and I suppose this goes along with that. I guess those folks have never heard of pegging... (Don't wikipedia that one at work -- general statement, not necessarily to you, Shiny.)

 

Oh, don't worry, I don't need to look it up

 

I'm not sure I'm following the conversation about Dorian and his past. I thought he had an argument with Alexius, left, and came back to reconcile only to find Alexius and Felix had gone. He then spent two years wandering. Whatever the case, I wasn't shocked by his behavior. This is a man who was clearly hurting and had such little self-worth he couldn't imagine someone sticking around with him for long. If your own father can dislike/betray you so terribly, what hope is there with other people? Two years isn't that long a time period for someone at rock bottom. It can take a while to climb out of that pit.

 

Anyway, I'm not even that's what you guys are talking about. I tend to ignore inconsistencies in timelines because it happens all the time. 

[Gervaise]

What hope is there with other people?   Well there's Alexius' example for one.   He helped Dorian before when he was a total stranger to him.    He didn't reject Dorian; he was desperately searching for a cure for his son and Dorian just couldn't take the pressure any more from Alexius' demands to find one - at least that's what his letter says to his father.   He tells the Inquisitor that Alexius just gave up in the end and Dorian decided he could either stay and "wallow in self pity" or "get out".     It was Dorian who told Alexius to "snap out of it" not the other way around.  

 

Now may be when it hit Dorian just how insensitive he had been to Alexius, he did go into free fall of depression but don't suggest that Dorian should have no expectation of kindness from other people.   The text also says that distant relatives and other companions helped him financially over the two years following his escape from his father.    That also seems something pretty unselfish on their part since they had little to gain by helping him.    I repeat that Dorian has no doubts about his friendship with the Inquisitor continuing so he does have faith in people.     If it took him two years to climb out of his depression, he wasn't without help if he was willing to take it and evidently he did in a material sense even if not an emotional one.

 

It may be that his father's imprisonment was what caused him to lose contact with Alexius and Felix but I doubt that they immediately got mixed up with the Venatori and would have left some way to contact them if merely travelling looking for a cure.   Alexius certainly had no trouble in finding Dorian with his letter, which would suggest that Alexius at least was following his progress.