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[Nymeria Stark]

Well he looked like he was in his 30's so no big surprise there.

 

Yes, I'm just happy it seems confirmed now. My inquisitor is 25 (like me), and I always thought Dorian was older than him and about 30 years old.

[shinynotshiny]

Haha I'm also 25. I was warming up to the idea of Dorian being younger than 30, but 23 just felt awkward. I think 30 is very reasonable

[Gervaise]

I don't think Dorian would have made the "emotional blackmail" joke if the Quizzy's words couldn't be seen as manipulative.   However, it is very noticeable that he hates being put on the spot about the whole business, particularly if you ask him what he want's to do in your original bedroom scene and later when you approach him about the future.   I think he just needs you to take the lead and then is content to go with whatever you advise because when it comes to long term relationships he really has no idea.    

 

The only thing that mitigates against this is that party conversation where he acknowledges that you are never likely to tire of him.   So he seems perfectly aware that you are into him in a big way and thus it seems a bit mean to tease you about it, because he's just announced he intends leaving at some point in the not too distant future.

 

My consistent moan is actually about the post epilogue because that seems unnecessary.   If he has agreed to stay, then why start up all the will I or won't I dialogue again?    If he has stated that he is leaving at some point soon, why keep reminding the Quizzy about it?     Surely even someone who has no idea about relationships must know that it is unsettling at the very least and likely to leave the person in a permanent state of insecurity over it.    Dorian knows how it feels because one of his conversations with Cole reveals that he was worried the Quizzy wouldn't want him once they had had sex.     It seems to me that the writer forgets there are two people in this relationship but just because they have left the Quizzy as a bit of a blank sheet to put your own identity on, doesn't mean you shouldn't take account of things like insecurities.    I found that several of the Quizzy's responses didn't really take account of differences in playing the character.  

 

Most notably, once you have taken that decision either to sleep with Dorian straight away or slow things down, that is the last you hear of it.     Because I wasn't given an actual option to speed things up again through actual dialogue, I used that option of talking about the future as the point where my Lavellan wants to broach the subject and then to my surprise gets mocked over his sentimentality in wanting to stay together.   So he was back to square one again.   I'd created a back story for him where there had never been anyone for him in his clan, because I imagined there is a fair bit of pressure to get married and have babies to keep the numbers up if nothing else and so he was unusual in holding out for something different instead of just capitulating (which is why he totally understands where Dorian is coming from).    However, unlike Dorian, he saw happy couples all around him in committed, life long, loving relationships, including his own parents.   So he sees no reason why just because he is attract to a man instead of a woman, he shouldn't want a similar sort of relationship for himself and be able to voice his affection in the same way he would to a woman.    When he commits himself to Dorian it is a big deal for him because so far as he is concerned there will never be anyone else and so long as he is with Dorian he will never be able to return to his clan (quite apart from their prejudice against the union, Dorian has made it very clear he hates being out in the woods).    So having defeated Cory and thought Dorian had finally committed to him, so at long last he could start to relax and enjoy himself, it is not very helpful to have Dorian doing the may be I will, may be I won't routine again.   That's just my take on it, though, I realise that it is not the same for everyone.

 

However, on the subject of returning to Tevinter, does Dorian really intend on doing this as a sole agent with no backing from the Inquisition?    After reading the WoT2 entry it seems to me that Dorian would have little chance of being taken seriously by anyone in the hierarchy.    With them now having introduced a two year period were he was little better than a wandering beggar, having already caused his father to have to resign his position in government, and his scandalous (from society's point of view) behaviour being open knowledge, there would seem to me to be something of a credibility gap.    He can spout on as much as he likes about the truth of the rise of Tevinter but they are likely just to dismiss him out of hand.     And once he's told whoever is willing to listen, what's keeping him there?   In which case it would be a temporary absence not a permanent one.

 

If he returns as a diplomatic envoy from the Inquisition though, is an entirely different matter.    The organisation is a real power now in Thedas and the Magisters would likely as not be interested in what he might have to say to them.  It might also seem worth their while to open a permanent dialogue with the Inquisition which could help them in their fight with the Qun (I never sacrifice the Chargers so no conflict of interest there).  The Archon has already used the Inquisition behind the scenes; now it would be a more open relationship.    In which case, if Josephine could get him an invitation, why shouldn't the Inquisitor travel back with Dorian?    I'm sure the Magisterium would be fascinated to meet him.      Dorian might say he's been inspired by the Inquisitor and want to do it for himself but he should remember that whatever the Inquisitor has achieved has been through a massive team effort and there is no shame in admitting you are better off accepting help.

 

Sorry my posts are so long but I sort of get carried away when it comes to talking about Dorian.

[Arlee]

 

It seems it's confirmed Dorian was born in 9:11 so that means he is 30. Someone found the beginning of Dorian's WoT2 entry:

 

Spoiler

Great Expectations

 

Dorian Pavus was born in 9:11 Dragon to Magister Halward and Lady Aquirtea Thalrassian, both from wealthy and influential families with lineages stretching back for generations– all the way to the Dreamers who preceded the first magisters. House Pavus, in fact, is one of the preeminent political forces in eastern Tevinter, its estate outside the city of Qarinus having been the site of several important historical events, not the least of which was the start of the so-called Rebellion of Three Dragons in 3:44 Towers. Thus, it was with high hopes that the pair greeted their new son, he who would one day take over his father’s seat in the Magisterium and marry a young woman to whom he had been betrothed since birth.

 

**

 

[By] all accounts, Dorian was not interested in any of this. Having shown magical ability from a very young age, he was apprenticed at the Circle of Magi in Carastes, one of the most prestigious academies in the eastern lmperium. There, the trouble began. “You were right to send your son to us, Magister Halward,“ wrote a senior enchanter at Carastes. “Even at the tender age of nine, he is already evincing talents greater than boys three or four years older. This means he will one day make a fine magister, one of which you and your dear wife shall be very proud. For the moment, however, it also means he is a young lad with much older boys who are quite jealous of him. There have been incidents, I fear. My initial suspicion was that Dorian was being bullied by the older boys, but it appears the reverse is true. Your son has become a terror in the halls, lording his superior magic over the other boys, who he believes…

 

[Start of first preview page] …are jealous of his prowess. After yesterday’s duel in the courtyard (with a full audience), I have one badly injured student and a sullen yet unrepentant Dorian locked in solitary—both sons of prominent magisters. I trust you can see my predicament.”

 

http://mechanical-je...of-thedas-entry

 

 

Yay And woah, they were betrothed at birth? That feels way worse than the whole thing being arranged when he was an adolescent...

[Arlee]

And there I go clicking on different threads and immediately regretting it >< Just saw someone saying Dorian was "incredibly uninteresting". Regardless of liking Dorian or not, I don't understand how he can possibly be viewed as boring :/

[Freedheart]

@Arlee, I saw that too....just did a little eye roll and moved along.  Their loss, more Dorian for us!    

[phaonica]

About the "emotional blackmail" joke. Maybe saying "I need you here, more than ever" *is* kind of guilting him into staying. But is there any way to say "I don't want you to leave" without it sounding like you are guilting him out of something he says he wants to do?

As far as his "will I or won't I" dialog. I was fine with him waffling about it because, to me, for all his bravado, he seems ultimately very insecure. There is an aspect of communication between Dorian and the Inquisitor being less than ideal because either of them might be holding back what they really feel in order to appear more loving/understanding, or because both of them have insecurities, or whatever else.

I understand if someone, by the end of the game, would rather that the story had culminated in Dorian's having achieved full confidence in himself and his LI. It doesn't seem to me like Dorian is there, yet. It's something that he and the Inq may continue to have to work through.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I've been guessing late 20's, so 30 on the dot makes sense to me.

 

Also, I loved the Dorian/Trevelyan fan art. OTP for sure.

[Arlee]

Also, I loved the Dorian/Trevelyan fan art. OTP for sure.

 

OTP?

[sandalisthemaker]

OTP?

 

 

One True Pairing.

[Nymeria Stark]

Dorian in sexy outfit =)

 

 

http://dragonage-art...heck-out-my-art

[Arlee]

One True Pairing.

Oooooh, thanks

[Dr. Doctor]

Yay And woah, they were betrothed at birth? That feels way worse than the whole thing being arranged when he was an adolescent...

If Tevinter does that no wonder some Altus couples loathe each other, being stuck with someone you dislike for quite literally your entire life would be awful.

[nightscrawl]

It seems it's confirmed Dorian was born in 9:11 so that means he is 30. Someone found the beginning of Dorian's WoT2 entry:
 

Spoiler

Great Expectations
 
Dorian Pavus was born in 9:11 Dragon to Magister Halward and Lady Aquirtea Thalrassian, both from wealthy and influential families with lineages stretching back for generations– all the way to the Dreamers who preceded the first magisters. House Pavus, in fact, is one of the preeminent political forces in eastern Tevinter, its estate outside the city of Qarinus having been the site of several important historical events, not the least of which was the start of the so-called Rebellion of Three Dragons in 3:44 Towers. Thus, it was with high hopes that the pair greeted their new son, he who would one day take over his father’s seat in the Magisterium and marry a young woman to whom he had been betrothed since birth.
 
**
 
[By] all accounts, Dorian was not interested in any of this. Having shown magical ability from a very young age, he was apprenticed at the Circle of Magi in Carastes, one of the most prestigious academies in the eastern lmperium. There, the trouble began. “You were right to send your son to us, Magister Halward,“ wrote a senior enchanter at Carastes. “Even at the tender age of nine, he is already evincing talents greater than boys three or four years older. This means he will one day make a fine magister, one of which you and your dear wife shall be very proud. For the moment, however, it also means he is a young lad with much older boys who are quite jealous of him. There have been incidents, I fear. My initial suspicion was that Dorian was being bullied by the older boys, but it appears the reverse is true. Your son has become a terror in the halls, lording his superior magic over the other boys, who he believes…
 
[Start of first preview page] …are jealous of his prowess. After yesterday’s duel in the courtyard (with a full audience), I have one badly injured student and a sullen yet unrepentant Dorian locked in solitary—both sons of prominent magisters. I trust you can see my predicament.”
 
http://mechanical-je...of-thedas-entry

As much as I DO like the idea of him being 30, I am still going to wait for the actual book release. I saw this information elsewhere and it is not accompanied by a scan, which makes it seem like they are still going by artificial means, such as text search, which hasn't been wholly accurate (incorrect names and such). And then, spreading like wildfire, information on the internet gets posted, re-posted, and propagated until the repetition gives it false credibility. This is why I always try to post a source when I quote a developer or something else. Just because you saw some other person say it in some other thread, or on some other website, doesn't mean it is accurate.

Even on that tumblr entry, the person says, "Because I’m an impatient bastard, I futzed around with Amazon’s preview until I worked out what I believe is most if not all of the “missing” page of Dorian’s entry, and I’ve transcribed it here..." and appends it with an asterisk for Mom's name, saying, "I’m inclined to say this is an instance of poor text recognition and her name is probably actually “Aquintea” or something like it."

So again, I know we're all eager to read more about our favorite mage, but let's not take things as completely credible until the actual book is released. Then by all means, post all of the paragraphs that you want.

 

And I suppose that I should add that I will be happy if this turns out to be accurate.

 

 

Sorry to be a killjoy.

[nightscrawl]

I don't think Dorian would have made the "emotional blackmail" joke if the Quizzy's words couldn't be seen as manipulative. However, it is very noticeable that he hates being put on the spot about the whole business, particularly if you ask him what he want's to do in your original bedroom scene and later when you approach him about the future. I think he just needs you to take the lead and then is content to go with whatever you advise because when it comes to long term relationships he really has no idea.

 

I disagree with pretty much everything in this paragraph and have a completely different read on Dorian than you do. [I don't mean this aggressively, but just factually. You're certainly entitled to your own views based on your play experience.]

 

On "emotional blackmail"...
I rather doubt that, by this time, either man doesn't know how the other feels about him. The post-Adamant dialog is the key here, which, to my mind, is one of the most revealing conversations between them in the entire game as far as recognition of feelings go. The post-Mythal dialog is a heavy one, very serious in its implication for Dorian, the Inquisitor, and their relationship. Dorian obfuscates with humor because that's what he does. When he says that he was "joking" I honestly believe that he actually was and doesn't think the Inquisitor was trying to manipulate him. You, the player, may feel that the line was manipulative, and that's understandable, but that doesn't mean that Dorian does.

 

However, it is very noticeable that he hates being put on the spot about the whole business, particularly if you ask him what he want's to do in your original bedroom scene and later when you approach him about the future.

 

To me, these two scenes have very different reasons for Dorian's response to them.

With the bedroom scene Dorian is not defensive, nor is he deflective, his is afraid. It is very clear what Dorian wants the Inquisitor to say. His manner, his tone, and his very words. Also, his actions and words regarding the amulet, no matter which path you take, reveal that he sees the potential for something more. When you ask him what he wants here, he's not irritated. He sighs and looks pained because he is forced to admit what he wants, and this is leaving himself open to rejection. That is not easy for anyone, and not easy for Dorian given his history. He takes a huge chance here.

 

During the "about the future" dialog he begins with sarcasm and self-depreciation, and then concludes with a serious, honest commentary. While it probably is nice to hear that the Inquisitor wants to be with him, I think you need to take his actual words as a caution: "Once Corypheus is defeated..." Either of you could still die, and I don't think he wants to foster the fantasy of a "happy ending" until there is actually evidence of one. And I don't believe he is doing that just for himself.

 

Interestingly, if you pick the "no games" option, you get disapproval. And I think that with this you can say that he dislikes being "put on the spot" because I think he would rather not consider the future at the moment (for reasons mentioned above), since things are so uncertain.

 

I think he just needs you to take the lead and then is content to go with whatever you advise because when it comes to long term relationships he really has no idea.

 

I dislike this because the idea seems to say that Dorian doesn't know what he wants, when the opposite is true. I don't think that letting the Inquisitor make the decision is because he "is content to go with whatever you advise" but rather is because he is trying to save himself pain. If someone else makes the decision, one can always say, "Well, this thing happened to me and I had no control over it." But if you make the decision yourself, you have just become the arbiter of your own happiness, and while that should be the case normally, it can hurt more if it doesn't turn out; "Why did I do this to myself?" Control of one's own life, which Dorian has never had, is a powerful thing.

 

I always go back to the post-sex scene for this, as there is no clearer indication of how Dorian's mind works. While his reaction for the no-sex version is incredibly charming, endearing, and wonderful in it's sweetness, it doesn't seem to carry the same weight or vulnerability as the sex version, simply because he has done what he has always done (have sex with men), and then made the hesitant leap to take it further.

 

Here is another way the Cole banter is revealing: "Wishing but wondering, wounded and wistful. What if he doesn't want me after?" I don't doubt that Dorian thought of that while he was walking up the stairs to the Inquisitor's quarters. (Hah, even though he asks in the proposition, I don't think he thinks he will actually be turned down for sex, hence the surprise when he is. This is part ego, part real signal reception from the Inquisitor himself, and part pattern of behavior.)

 

Afterward, he asks casually, "I’m curious where this goes, you and I. We’ve had fun. Perfectly reasonable to leave it here, get on with the business of killing Archdemons and such…"

 

He leaves the decision up to the Inquisitor because it is easier, not because it's what he wants. When asked what he wants, he replies, "All on me then?" When the Inquisitor says, "Should it be all on me?" this is as much as saying, "We are two people here and should both make the decision."

 

All that follows is a reluctant admission, "I like you. More than I should. More than might be wise. We end it here, I walk away. I won’t be pleased, but I’d rather now than later. Later might be dangerous," ... "Walking away… might be harder then," ... "I was… expecting something different. Where I come from, anything between two men… it’s about pleasure. It’s accepted, but taken no further. You learn not to hope for more. You’d be foolish to."

[CarrionFowl]

Dorian in sexy outfit =)

 

 

http://dragonage-art...heck-out-my-art

 

Which outfit isn't sexy on Dorian?!   That aside, love the picture^^ Wish I could draw like that ^^ And Dorian...

 

 

That's some dedication there! Apologies for all the times we've repeated ourselves throughout the thread lol! And welcome

 

Well, it's Dorian^^ I'm head-over-heels for the guy^^ Sacrificing a few days just to read other people's thoughts (which more often than not reflect my own^^) seems like little effort *gg* And thanks for the welcome^^ I've only been hanging around in the Varric-thread before^^

[Nymeria Stark]

As much as I DO like the idea of him being 30, I am still going to wait for the actual book release. I saw this information elsewhere and it is not accompanied by a scan, which makes it seem like they are still going by artificial means, such as text search, which hasn't been wholly accurate (incorrect names and such). And then, spreading like wildfire, information on the internet gets posted, re-posted, and propagated until the repetition gives it false credibility. This is why I always try to post a source when I quote a developer or something else. Just because you saw some other person say it in some other thread, or on some other website, doesn't mean it is accurate.

Even on that tumblr entry, the person says, "Because I’m an impatient bastard, I futzed around with Amazon’s preview until I worked out what I believe is most if not all of the “missing” page of Dorian’s entry, and I’ve transcribed it here..." and appends it with an asterisk for Mom's name, saying, "I’m inclined to say this is an instance of poor text recognition and her name is probably actually “Aquintea” or something like it."

So again, I know we're all eager to read more about our favorite mage, but let's not take things as completely credible until the actual book is released. Then by all means, post all of the paragraphs that you want.

 

And I suppose that I should add that I will be happy if this turns out to be accurate.

 

 

Sorry to be a killjoy.

 

Eh, that's why I said it seems it's confirmed, meaning, a very high chance it's true. Danaduchy also posted that birthdate, and it's not like when they spread the rumour of Dorian being 23, many people didn't believe it. This time, everyone I read agrees it's canon. It's not just 1 random source, so there is a difference. I'm not saying it's 100%, but probably 90%+.

[Forsythia77]

Well he looked like he was in his 30's so no big surprise there.

 

In my mind everyone in the entire real world is in their 30s since I'm in my 30s.  LOL.

 

In the game I assumed Dorian was in his 30s.  He seems to have gotten to that point where other ppls opinions do not matter like they do when you are in your 20s, but he doesn't seem to be THAT bitter and jaded yet, like you start to get when you've seen it all and done it all.  . 

 

Your 30s are good though.  I feel like as a person you really come into your own and own your decisions and who you are.  And I heard people say it and just kind of rolled my eyes when I was still in my 20s but it really is true. 

[Gervaise]

I think you misunderstand me; may be I don't explain myself properly.   When I say Dorian "needs" me to make the decision I know it is because he fears rejection.   The point I keep trying to make, badly it seems, is that no allowance is made for the fact that the Inquisitor may feel the same way, except in the fact that you are allowed to back off if you feel Dorian is coming on to you before you are ready for it.     The Inquisitor may be just as vulnerable, may be for different reasons to Dorian, but it is still there.    

 

As for the idea that you don't want to foster the idea of a "happy ending" because both of you could still die, the Inquisitor isn't an idiot; of course you could both still die but this is obviously where my Inquisitor differs from Dorian because knowing he has someone who really cares whether he makes it through or not gives him that extra motivation to not just beat Corypheus but to stay alive.     Suppose that instead of the ending we get, with you standing tall and splitting Cory into atoms, you had instead destroyed Corypheus but it was leaving your life hanging by a thread and that bright light within you is going out, so it isn't just Solas' orb that is drained of energy, my Inquisitor believes that it is that bond he has with Dorian that could make all the difference whether it goes out or not.     In reality it would probably be your own survival instinct that keeps you going but this game keeps going on about belief and faith and that is what he has faith in; the power of love.   To be honest after everything that has happened and all the revelations about the elven gods, meeting Mythal, etc, that is about the only thing he does have faith in.  

 

I've said before, the defining moment for my Lavellan was the decision about the Well.    He was very much torn since he had been raised to want to preserve the past and keep it among the Dalish; yet his instincts told him that it might not be worth it.   His companions were all over the place about advising him, particularly Solas - he doesn't want Morrigan to have it; doesn't want to drink himself, yet thinks someone ought to take it.     Then Dorian says "I would not risk losing you to the Well."     That is what saved him.      So he was a tad disappointed (extreme understatement) that Dorian didn't get the significance and the next time he speaks with him, Dorian is talking of returning to Tevinter.   So whatever I thought about it in analysis, in character I didn't think I was manipulating him, just blurted out exactly what he felt: "I need you".   Even though I did know that was the "correct" response, as it turned out it was the only one appropriate to what he felt at the time.     I think that Dorian finally got the message; he did agree to stay didn't he?

[phaonica]

I think you misunderstand me; may be I don't explain myself properly.   When I say Dorian "needs" me to make the decision I know it is because he fears rejection.   The point I keep trying to make, badly it seems, is that no allowance is made for the fact that the Inquisitor may feel the same way, except in the fact that you are allowed to back off if you feel Dorian is coming on to you before you are ready for it.     The Inquisitor may be just as vulnerable, may be for different reasons to Dorian, but it is still there.

Is it that the game doesn't give you the option to play as insecure, or is it that Dorian doesn't respond how you'd like him to when you're playing as insecure?

In general, if both parties are insecure there is going to be some miscommunication, I think. Both parties want something from the other that the other may not be able to give. If you are looking for Dorian to be your rock, I don't think he's ready to do that yet. If you play your Inquisitor as insecure and back off, Dorian is more likely to also back off than to give chase, I think. Apparently, Dorian might even purposely back off to test if you'll give chase. It's not exactly a nice thing to do, but that does seem to be what he's doing.

[shinynotshiny]

If Tevinter does that no wonder some Altus couples loathe each other, being stuck with someone you dislike for quite literally your entire life would be awful.

 

I was thinking about this over a bowl of cereal and remembered vulcans and their marriage rituals. Then I pictured a Tevinter version of koonut-kaliffee.

[nightscrawl]

I think you misunderstand me; may be I don't explain myself properly. When I say Dorian "needs" me to make the decision I know it is because he fears rejection. The point I keep trying to make, badly it seems, is that no allowance is made for the fact that the Inquisitor may feel the same way, except in the fact that you are allowed to back off if you feel Dorian is coming on to you before you are ready for it. The Inquisitor may be just as vulnerable, may be for different reasons to Dorian, but it is still there.

You fail to consider something during all of this discussion. Neither the game, nor Dorian himself, has any idea -- beyond the limited scope of the dialog options we are presented with -- what is going on in our Inquisitor's head. You can write all of this stuff about why your Inquisitor feels this way or that, what his motivations are, but it ultimately makes no difference because Dorian, as an NPC in a cRPG, is completely incapable of responding to those.
 
When I spoke of not fostering a happy ending I was only speaking to Dorian's possible thought process behind the dialog and the reason he is reluctant to discuss the future in that moment. The reason I never discuss your Inquisitor, or rarely mention my own, is because it really has no weight in these discussions.
 
In a way, ALL of the romances are with self-absorbed people in that, as a pre-written character, they are literally incapable of thinking beyond themselves. Sure, they can respond to various things you've said, but unlike a real person, they can't take the sum of your experience together and come up with a conclusion from it.
 
Dorian cannot, and should not be expected as an NPC in a video game, to look over the relationship and think, "The Inquisitor said this, that, and the other thing, and did such-and-such, so I know that he really cares about me." That is completely beyond the scope of these games. Dorian can only respond according to his own thoughts, feelings, and motivations.
 
I know we all like Dorian. I know we all like the romance. But it really seems to me that you are taking a great deal of this content way too personally and causing yourself a great deal of grief as a result.

[nightscrawl]

I was thinking about this over a bowl of cereal and remembered vulcans and their marriage rituals. Then I pictured a Tevinter version of koonut-kaliffee.

Inquisitor: I see no logic in choosing Bull over me.

Audience: NEITHER DO WE.

[shinynotshiny]

Inquisitor: I see no logic in choosing Bull over me.

Audience: NEITHER DO WE.

 

Now I can't help seeing a gratuitous fight scene between the Inquisitor and Iron Bull

[tklivory]

I just love this banter between a romanced Dorian and Cole, and Danaduchy made some lovely slides of it, so I'm posting them here for everyone. Taken from this Tumblr post:

 

First banter:

 

Second banter: