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[Dr. Doctor]

Here is a factoid for those if you that haven't wanted to look at the Bull/Dorian stuff (as one in the same boat, I just learned this)... as per their banter, Dorian apparently wears "silky underthings." Because of course he does. That man, I swear.
 
Just had to share that.

Inquisitor: Why in the Maker's name...is everything you own held together with an inordinate amount of buckles?

Dorian: They're decorative.

As for the whole Circle/Chantry thing, I always took "Magic is meant to serve man, not rule over him" as a warning that the pursuit of power can make you a slave to it. The story of the first Darkspawn is a cautionary tale about the dangers of hubris.

However when you think about the common Thedosian they've more in common with Sera than most of the people we've had in our party. Most of them have never seen a mage, and the extent of what they do know is either from the Chant or the knowledge that there's an "evil empire" up north run by them. The idea that there are these people with godlike powers is a pretty terrifying concept that could threaten to shake up the status quo (you don't need healers when magic is quicker and more effective). So you can justify that the risk of another Tevinter/demons/abominations is a reason to force the minority of magic users into towers and take away what rights they have.

The Templars started out as a group that protected mages from a public who would hunt them down and as a defense against those who would use magic to harm others. After a few hundred years of the aforementioned culture you can start to see how the Order leadership started to see locking the mages away as being "for their own good".

Granted, if magic wasn't so useful I'd be willing to bet that the Chantry would have just tried to purge it outright.

[Hazegurl]

We do get to see his input on it. We only don't see it affecting the romance arc.

And by the way, that is more like Cassandra's description. Vivienne loves every bit of the Chantry setbacks. She acknowledges the existence of abuse but doesn't consider it a legitimate issue or a priority.

That's what I want to see, It would have been nice to see how it affected the relationship, or at least have a real back and forth about the issue.

 

Vivienne doesn't love the Chantry's setbacks and she does care about the abuses.  She believes the Mages handled it poorly and at the wrong time.  Also, there are several clues that Vivienne is more Tevinter minded when it comes to Mages and the Chantry.  She alludes to how it wouldn't be a bad idea for mages to have more power (something she grants if made Divine), There's some banter in haven where someone mentions that Vivienne says the right words but there isn't much conviction behind them.  Most likely her views on Mages and the Chantry.  I see Vivienne as wanting to use the Circle as a stepping stone for more power and freedom for Mages.  Under Cass, I think Mages would only have power within the Circle system but that ceiling exists to always keep them in the Circle. While Leliana is just about freedom.

[Qun00]

Vivienne being right about Fiona doesn't make her right about everything else.

She literally tells you mages are like wolves that will attack the sheep if you remove the bars. She's pretty Chantry brainwashed.

[Gervaise]

About the silk and arrow heads; the barb on the end means that trying to withdraw an arrow is going to do a great deal more damage on the way out than on the way in.   I think this was the point of the silk.  Genghis and his followers also had access to Chinese and central Asian medicine, which was way ahead of European standards of that time.  With the Celts we are probably more talking about swords and such rather than arrows, so jamming cloth into the wound would not be a good idea and would achieve very little by the way of benefits.     Since mages (if they are wise) will tend to stand behind the front line, they are going to be more at risk from arrows than swords.   They are from me at least.   It is funny to hear the opposition yell, go for the warrior.    I'm always saying, go for the mage.   First thing my archer does is look for any mages on the battlefield and then concentrate my fire power on them.   Then when they are dead I look for other archers, any prowler/assassins and then finally whatever warriors are left.  

 

Another odd little visual blip I get with Dorian is when I hand him the amulet.   When he first takes it, before it switches to the cut scene, his moustache suddenly jumps off his upper lip and rises up so it looks like it is practically coming out of his nose.   That's what surprise will do for you!

[tklivory]

Just found this random screenshot and thought I'd share:

 

[Cozmikitty]

Not sure if this is the same thing, but when I pull up the inventory screen, the numbers at the bottom seem to be in a bigger font. I thought it was just my imagination, but maybe not?

Yes! I was wondering if it was my system. Hardly anyone is loading correctly in the menu (assigning intentory), and even speaking face to face.

[Gervaise]

My screen has definitely changed, like switching from a normal cinema screen to wide screen.    Some of the missions on the far left on the war table are barely visible now.   The bar across the inventory screen has changed, sort of dropped so it is directly across their face instead of just above.    The only benefit of this is, as I said before, my elf looks healthier and more mature  but slightly shorter.   It is not a huge difference but enough that I noticed it.    I tried tinkering with the graphics in options but it didn't seem to affect it, which is why I wondered if it was something deliberate in the update.

 

I was thinking how it was a pity you couldn't exchange mementos.   You give Dorian the amulet, which I suppose he will now always associate with you instead of the bad things in his life, which is a good thing, but it would have been nice to get a little something in return.    I know his return gift was himself but a little keepsake would have been a nice touch, not straight away, but perhaps after the Fade, when he is clearly saying how much you mean to him.    May be he would only do that if he really did ever return to Tevinter, so perhaps it is better not getting something.   Still, I was wondering what a gift from Dorian might be.

[Melbella]

I was thinking how it was a pity you couldn't exchange mementos.   You give Dorian the amulet, which I suppose he will now always associate with you instead of the bad things in his life, which is a good thing, but it would have been nice to get a little something in return.    I know his return gift was himself but a little keepsake would have been a nice touch, not straight away, but perhaps after the Fade, when he is clearly saying how much you mean to him.    May be he would only do that if he really did ever return to Tevinter, so perhaps it is better not getting something.   Still, I was wondering what a gift from Dorian might be.

 

Yeah, that would be nice. He completely fooled me the first time I romanced him. I thought he really had put something up in my quarters, so I hurried on up to see what it might be. Surprise!   Maybe he left a buckle or two behind? By accident, of course.

[nightscrawl]

Just found this random screenshot and thought I'd share:
 

Spoiler

This will sound odd, but I really like his ears for some reason. In fact, just... the whole side of his head is great: lovely profile, trimmed hair, ear shape...

I really... need help at this point.

[Gervaise]

Join the club!    Now my elf's appearance has been accidentally improved, I keep replaying the bedroom scene so I can see him alongside Dorian and gaze dreamily at them both.

 

I've been wondering about something else.   On the Templar run, when Dorian tells you about trying to discover what became of Felix, he says it is "as though he never existed".   Now on the mage run Dorian tells you that what Alexius was attempting to do was remove you from time altogether and he prevented it.   (I've never quite understood how he knew that is what Alexius was trying to do but may be that is what he had been planning to do to the darkspawn if he ever managed to turn time back to that point).    So I was wondering if the idea is that Alexius made everything so unstable that eventually he accidentally removed himself and Felix from time.

 

Also been reflecting on that interview with DG and the fact it says that Dorian had been altered quite a bit.   May be that is why the stuff in WoT2 doesn't match what he tells you himself and what is contained in the codices regarding Alexius.   So what is clearly a timescale of months in game is in fact years in WoT2.   I know they did that with Anders but this is a far bigger discrepancy than that.

[nightscrawl]

^ Which interview is this?

 

That some details changed doesn't surprise me, but it is kind of jarring to see the contrast between certain things. At least he mentions it, as opposed to the whole deal with Anders (the timeline) where the general attitude seems to have been "well whatever, this is what we went with."

[Dr. Doctor]

Join the club!    Now my elf's appearance has been accidentally improved, I keep replaying the bedroom scene so I can see him alongside Dorian and gaze dreamily at them both.
 
I've been wondering about something else.   On the Templar run, when Dorian tells you about trying to discover what became of Felix, he says it is "as though he never existed".   Now on the mage run Dorian tells you that what Alexius was attempting to do was remove you from time altogether and he prevented it.   (I've never quite understood how he knew that is what Alexius was trying to do but may be that is what he had been planning to do to the darkspawn if he ever managed to turn time back to that point).    So I was wondering if the idea is that Alexius made everything so unstable that eventually he accidentally removed himself and Felix from time.
 
Also been reflecting on that interview with DG and the fact it says that Dorian had been altered quite a bit.   May be that is why the stuff in WoT2 doesn't match what he tells you himself and what is contained in the codices regarding Alexius.   So what is clearly a timescale of months in game is in fact years in WoT2.   I know they did that with Anders but this is a far bigger discrepancy than that.

It could be that whatever happened at Redcliffe seriously altered the time-space continuum. Dorian managed to return us to the present, but possibly not the exact timeline so the sequence of events could differ.

As for a keepsake, it might have been neat to see the Inquisitor's outfit change slightly depending on their LI similar to the outfit changes with DA2 LI's:

-Dorian adds Tevinter-style buckles or a subtle version of his snake motif.
-Josephine adds an arm/wristband the color of her dress similar to Fenris' (I.E. the lady's favor).
-Sera adds red accents (scarves, socks, sashes) from stuff she's squirreled away in her cabinet.
-Cullen adds in fur accents similar to his surcoat.
-Iron Bull adds the other half of the dragon's tooth pendant.
-Cassandra adds Seeker-inspired metalwork (like those little hearts on her paldrons).
-Solas adds a subtle wolf motif, or a pendant similar to his.

[Hazegurl]

Vivienne being right about Fiona doesn't make her right about everything else.

She literally tells you mages are like wolves that will attack the sheep if you remove the bars. She's pretty Chantry brainwashed.

I think Viv is afraid of magic which makes me lose respect for her as a mage.  However, she isn't entirely wrong about Mages.  There are those who will use their power against those who can't fight back in the same manner, as this is what people tend to do.   Without Templars, who will reign these particular Mages in? Even Dorian warns that things could get a bit too "Tevinter" if one isn't careful. So I lean more in the Viv camp with splashes of Leliana.  Personally, I don't think Vivienne is into the Chantry, I think she sees it as a political tool.

[Dr. Doctor]

I think Viv is afraid of magic which makes me lose respect for her as a mage.  However, she isn't entirely wrong about Mages.  There are those who will use their power against those who can't fight back in the same manner, as this is what people tend to do.   Without Templars, who will reign these particular Mages in? Even Dorian warns that things could get a bit too "Tevinter" if one isn't careful. So I lean more in the Viv camp with splashes of Leliana.  Personally, I don't think Vivienne is into the Chantry, I think she sees it as a political tool.

There's such thing as having a healthy respect out of fear. Knowing that the power you wield can have dire consequences and respecting those limits is what Circle training is about. Hubris and contempt for that power is what results in blood magic, veil tears, and demons. A Mage isn't omnipotent, and trying to become so is highly dangerous.

[nightscrawl]

So I finally bit the bullet and watched the other two options for the quarters sex version (let's keep this fun, let's leave it here)... Man those were hard to watch. I think the 'let's keep this fun' version is the worst one. While I was initially surprised at this -- I was expecting him to be a bit more light-hearted about it -- I think it does make sense given his history. With the 'fun' version he looks extremely disappointed, whereas with the 'leave it here' version it's more of a "I shouldn't be surprised" kind of reaction in addition to disappointment.

 

Geez they were awful.

[Nymeria Stark]

So I finally bit the bullet and watched the other two options for the quarters sex version (let's keep this fun, let's leave it here)... Man those were hard to watch. I think the 'let's keep this fun' version is the worst one. While I was initially surprised at this -- I was expecting him to be a bit more light-hearted about it -- I think it does make sense given his history. With the 'fun' version he looks extremely disappointed, whereas with the 'leave it here' version it's more of a "I shouldn't be surprised" kind of reaction in addition to disappointment.

 

Geez they were awful.

 

That's why I can never choose those options in my game, I would feel horrible. I watched video time ago and it was sad, his face and picking up his clothes to leave 

 

 

Something happier now.... I love this, it's my Wicked Grace headcanon, betting clothes with Dorian (and losing) 

 

 

And other Dorian/quizzy interactions

 

Spoiler

 

 

http://slugette.tumb...cal-interaction

[Forsythia77]

So I finally bit the bullet and watched the other two options for the quarters sex version (let's keep this fun, let's leave it here)... Man those were hard to watch. I think the 'let's keep this fun' version is the worst one. While I was initially surprised at this -- I was expecting him to be a bit more light-hearted about it -- I think it does make sense given his history. With the 'fun' version he looks extremely disappointed, whereas with the 'leave it here' version it's more of a "I shouldn't be surprised" kind of reaction in addition to disappointment.

 

Geez they were awful.

 

As a real live person, I could not do this to someone.  I can't remove my personality enough from anyone I am playing in an RPG to do this to Dorian - or anyone.  I'm just not that girl.  I guess this is why I've never considered  choosing them.  This is also why I probably only sacrificed the Chargers once and drank from the well only once.  Those decisions are just too against my core personality values. Maybe I'm not a ruthless pragmatist. 

[Hazegurl]

So I finally bit the bullet and watched the other two options for the quarters sex version (let's keep this fun, let's leave it here)... Man those were hard to watch. I think the 'let's keep this fun' version is the worst one. While I was initially surprised at this -- I was expecting him to be a bit more light-hearted about it -- I think it does make sense given his history. With the 'fun' version he looks extremely disappointed, whereas with the 'leave it here' version it's more of a "I shouldn't be surprised" kind of reaction in addition to disappointment.

 

Geez they were awful.

Yeah, I picked those two before reloading.  So hard to see, and the curtain comment for some reason made it harder.  Could never watch again. 

[nightscrawl]

As a real live person, I could not do this to someone.  I can't remove my personality enough from anyone I am playing in an RPG to do this to Dorian - or anyone.  I'm just not that girl.  I guess this is why I've never considered  choosing them.  This is also why I probably only sacrificed the Chargers once and drank from the well only once.  Those decisions are just too against my core personality values. Maybe I'm not a ruthless pragmatist. 

I've done the various scenes numerous times now. In this current play I was purposely experimenting with different options to see them. I had vowed to never watch them, but I finally decided to go ahead because of various line references I've seen here and there. For example, "You are a frustrating man," was a line I had seen referenced, and I've discovered that it was as a response to the "What, no 'thank you'?" option during the amulet quest. I would never say that but it was rather amusing -- Me: I'm frustrating? Look in a mirror, buddy. And of course there is the ever-wonderful "Oh! You are glorious!" in response to "Is that all? Go ahead and use me, Dorian. Or are you all talk?" (also something I wouldn't say).

 

In this experiment I also didn't choose the investigation option to say, "Tell me what you want," because that would have made me feel like the hugest a-hole.

To this day I've never even seen a video of the option to return Fenris to Danarius. I have no inclination to see that ever.

 

 

Somewhat linked to this: after watching all of the possible permutations for the amulet quest, I finally get Dorian's different responses when you ask him about the amulet.

 

If you ask him about it before going to the merchant he offers a minor explanation of what it is and as the reason for selling only offers that he needed coin on coming south; when questioned on why he wants it back he says, "Because it's mine... and because it shouldn't be passed around like candy," then goes on to reaffirm that it's HIS mess, he will figure it out, and that he doesn't want to be one of the masses asking the Inquisitor for something.

 

If you give it to him as a surprise he is pretty shocked, and now that he actually has it he confesses that he wanted to divest himself of anything reminding him of his family, that his father noticed it was gone and asked about it, and that he feels selling it was foolish and childish because he loves his country and this is a symbol that he is a part of it.

 

The first one is typical Dorian, isn't it? He is annoyed that the Inquisitor is asking him about it and basically says enough to get him to shut up and (hopefully) leave the matter alone. I would normally go with the surprise version, except that taking him to the merchant and getting "He's not my friend, he's... never mind what he is" (and Inquisitor's accompanying face!) is really too good to pass up. Which is unfortunate, because his reaction and commentary for the surprise is really great. (Damn RPGs and those choices!)

[Gervaise]

I didn't know what to do for the best on that but in the end opted for going to see Dorian to find out what the deal was with the merchant and then when after a couple of quests he still didn't seem to have recovered it, I went on my own to quiz the merchant, because I didn't want to embarrass Dorian.    Trouble is with that surprise version, you never find out the full story about the amulet, but I suppose it is one of those things where you can possibly guess why he let it go, because of the way he is so annoyed if you press him about it.    On handing it over, I tried the alternatives but went with "I did it for you", because that essentially is why I did do it.  

 

I can't bring myself ever to investigate the non relationship options in the bedroom.   I found it bad enough just reading the dialogue and guessing how he'd react.    I did catch the video of someone punching him and wish I hadn't but I actually wanted to see Dorian stand on his dignity and actually walk out on a jerk Inquisitor, which he did.   You must have to be a real a** hole to make Dorian do that.   So I avoid watching any videos now and just stick with my own experiences.  

 

I wonder how many variations there are on things that we can do together.   I've had drinking and Wicked Grace.   My favourite thus far has to be "If we were in Minrathous, I'd show you a hundred ways to shame your ancestors".    I bet he would!     Sort of doubly funny considering I'm an elf.

[Dr. Doctor]

"A Hundred Ways to Shame Your Ancestors" by Dorian Pavus. Now with an extra twenty pages of diagrams!

[Gervaise]

Thought I just report that I managed to get my screen back to its original state, which I had to do to see the far left of the war table.   Checked and my graphics card is still optimised, so it had to be something that the update did.   I wish I hadn't had to change it back now because I've grown used to seeing my stockier elf and now it has switched back he looks even thinner than before.   Dorian does too.   Not as noticeable as the elf but there was a slight change.   Of course Dorian looks good regardless but I must admit I liked his new look too, so I will have to see if I can get it back again tomorrow.   I'd post screen shots to show the difference but I've proven useless at doing that.    Still the fact is that the elves don't have to look as scrawny as they do and if the new look was what was originally intended, then it is rather good.

[nightscrawl]

I wonder how many variations there are on things that we can do together.   I've had drinking and Wicked Grace.   My favourite thus far has to be "If we were in Minrathous, I'd show you a hundred ways to shame your ancestors".    I bet he would!     Sort of doubly funny considering I'm an elf.

Hah, my fav is the uniforms one, primarily because of the laughing manner in which my Inquisitor asks "What's wrong with their uniforms?" XD

[Melbella]

Hah, my fav is the uniforms one, primarily because of the laughing manner in which my Inquisitor asks "What's wrong with their uniforms?" XD

 

The first one I got this time is around is, "Let's find Cassandra and pretend we're talking about her. It will drive her mad."  He's such an ornery fella. Really good (or maybe bad?) timing since my PC had just chosen to romance Dorian over her (he picked Cass last time around and has now gone back in time to romance Dorian instead).

[Arlee]

So I finally bit the bullet and watched the other two options for the quarters sex version (let's keep this fun, let's leave it here)... Man those were hard to watch. I think the 'let's keep this fun' version is the worst one. While I was initially surprised at this -- I was expecting him to be a bit more light-hearted about it -- I think it does make sense given his history. With the 'fun' version he looks extremely disappointed, whereas with the 'leave it here' version it's more of a "I shouldn't be surprised" kind of reaction in addition to disappointment.

 

Geez they were awful.

 

Yea I watched those once and it was definitely awful. I can't imagine actually picking them, not even for science.