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[nightscrawl]

Here is a question for you all... Now, before I get into this I do want to say that I'm not bringing up this topic to incite controversy, but I do have a rather narrow question regarding the Dorian/Iron Bull romance and I was curious as do the opinions of others in this thread. I know people in this thread are generally more level-headed than the tumblr masses, but please consider my post before responding.
 
In an upcoming Patrick Weekes interview one of the things he discusses is the Dorian/Bull romance and how it came about:

#BiowareTalk: The romance was discovered when @davidgaider and @PatrickWeekes role played the characters bantering- then kissing...

My response is...

I'm not into that romance, but I would love to read/hear those sessions. I'm curious as to how it came about, how Dorian reacts to Bull in that manner, and so on, and how different it is to the Inquisitor romance.

From the various things I've read and seen it seems to me that the Adoribull pairing is (for Dorian) more about escapism, whereas the Inquisitor romance is more about healing (I could be totally wrong, but that's just my take on it). I also do NOT say this to mean that the Inquisitor romance is more "real," but rather that Dorian gets what he needs at the time from each of those specific romances.


I'm curious as to whether anyone agrees with my take on it or not. This isn't really about whether you consider it abuse or not, but more of a comparison between the Bull vs Inquisitor romances.

On the whole, I'm rather inclined to go with David Gaider's feeling on the romance and leave it at that, which is why I have the view that I do.

Q: I have a question that I'm not sure you'd want to answer, but my inner writer really wants to know. Your answers on other matters are always so eloquent, I was hoping you could provide similar input on the subject of Iron Bull and Dorian's relationship (should the Inquisitor romance neither of them). Their banter in that situation strikes me not as a 'cute little romance' but rather an exploration of the characters, and not necessarily meant to be 'healthy'. Is that intentional? I'm curious.

A: Are there people who consider Dorian and Iron Bull’s potential relationship to be “cute”? Huh. That’s not a term I would use.

I’m not going to go into detail on what I think about it — most of their relationship is left undetailed, after all, and the player is only catching the very edge of it…thus I think it’s a matter best left to headcanon — but I’d say that it has a real potential to either be a very passionate affair or the kind of epic mistake that one or both of them regrets later. Maybe both. I’m uncertain when it was dictated that relationships depicted in game had to only be of the safe and positive kind, but in this case I don’t think that Adoribull (heh, I do love that moniker) is really either of those things…and that’s not necessarily bad, in my view.

Poor Dorian. There’s nothing like discovering you actually like Fereldan beer. It’s like having all your friends talk about how awful Coors Light is, and you’re quietly sitting there remembering how you chugged back a full case of it just the other night. So sad.

EDIT: Evidently some people interpreted the above as my confirming that the potential relationship between Dorian and Iron Bull is abusive. I really don’t know how that could be the case, so let me clarify: Dorian is very much a willing participant in what occurs, if less-than-thrilled at his life choices (or, at least, that’s what he evinces), and while their relationship might possibly be less-than-healthy on the whole, it’s possible for that to be the case without it being abuse. If you still feel such, go right ahead, but *I* certainly never said so. Got it? Excellent.

_____

To those in the thread that are new to the whole Dorian romance thing... If the Inquisitor is NOT in a romance with either guy, if you bring both of them along enough to hear their banter, they will eventually strike up a romance.

 

Their relationship is somewhat dynamic in that it actually builds over time as you listen to the banter, so if you don't bring the two of them along they don't get together. This is proven by the fact that there is only a party/epilog mention of the romance IF you've done this. On my very first play (of the game) as a fem Inquisitor when I didn't know about any of this, my gal ended up being Dorian's bff, but as I never took Bull along anywhere -- I prefer a primarily ranged team -- they did not get together.

[shinynotshiny]

I've never understood the controversy over the pairing. If we argue the relationship is abusive/unhealthy because of Bull's sexual interests, then we also have to argue his relationship with the Inquisitor is abusive/unhealthy and I never saw it that way. Bull seems to respect all of his partners and I don't see why Dorian has to be the exception. If we instead argue it's because neither man has any relationship experience, then I wonder how people feel about the possibility of the Inquisitor having no experience either. Is lack of experience automatically a bad thing? I say no.

 

I think the unhealthiness comes from the Qunari/Tevinter pairing. Neither culture is accepting of the other, and we've seen how both men respect their culture despite having problems with it. A long-term relationship would present a lot of difficulties for them, especially for Dorian. Not only would he have to deal with the prejudice against same-sex relationships, he would also have to deal with the prejudice against the qunari in Tevinter and elsewhere. I think this would be a lot for Dorian to deal with in his first relationship (and most likely why he wants to keep his relationship with Bull a secret).

 

I didn't see their relationship as one of escapism. For one, we have Bull speaking fondly of Dorian, calling him sweet and gentle and hoping they're good for each other. They also have party banter where Bull tries to comfort Dorian after Dorian meets his father, for example. Then we have Dorian wanting to remain in Skyhold for a while because of Bull. It may not be an ideal relationship, but I think both men are dealing with genuine feelings and exploring them the only way they know how.

 

I know some people don't like the way Bull freely talks about his relationship with Dorian, but personally, I think his sexual openness is good for Dorian.

[nightscrawl]

I didn't see their relationship as one of escapism. For one, we have Bull speaking fondly of Dorian, calling him sweet and gentle and hoping they're good for each other. They also have party banter where Bull tries to comfort Dorian after Dorian meets his father, for example. Then we have Dorian wanting to remain in Skyhold for a while because of Bull. It may not be an ideal relationship, but I think both men are dealing with genuine feelings and exploring them the only way they know how.

I did think of this as I was writing, but didn't want to get too carried away. I was primarily thinking of when the relationship starts off. If you consider the WoT information, it seems like Dorian has sort of fallen into his old routine -- the same can also be said of a "let's keep this fun" relationship with the Inquisitor. I find this somewhat bad because it's not a healthy to deal with personal problems. If you pick the "fun" path you can immediately see that Dorian is disappointed, so it's a clear indication of what he really wanted.

 

BUT, for both of these I think that there is a potential for further development. For example, even if you choose the "fun" path with the Inquisitor, you can still get him to stay, so even if it starts off as fun it might develop into something deeper later on, which IMO is a natural occurrence.

[shinynotshiny]

I did think of this as I was writing, but didn't want to get too carried away. I was primarily thinking of when the relationship starts off. If you consider the WoT information, it seems like Dorian has sort of fallen into his old routine -- the same can also be said of a "let's keep this fun" relationship with the Inquisitor. I find this somewhat bad because it's not a healthy to deal with personal problems. If you pick the "fun" path you can immediately see that Dorian is disappointed, so it's a clear indication of what he really wanted.

 

BUT, for both of these I think that there is a potential for further development. For example, even if you choose the "fun" path with the Inquisitor, you can still get him to stay, so even if it starts off as fun it might develop into something deeper later on, which IMO is a natural occurrence.

 

I definitely think their "ill-conceived night of drinking" was Dorian falling into his old habits, but it turned into something else the more it went on. Dorian is very flustered when you ask him about it, and he doesn't even know what to call what he has with Bull. It sounds like new territory for him, which is why I wouldn't say he stays with Bull out of old habits.

 

I finally started my playthrough as a male Inquisitor and I chose the "slow down" path, especially because the scene triggers after you give him the amulet. After going on and on about being indebted to the Inquisitor, I felt weird taking the "finally" option (if I remember correctly). But that doesn't mean I'll always play it the same way.

[tklivory]

Heh, that's kind of funny you bring that up, since I was the anon who sent Gaider that question on Tumblr.

 

One reason I sent it was because Tumblr (being Tumblr) was doing it's normal Tumblr thing and dividing lines between 'good' and 'evil' and accusing Gaider and Weekes of all kinds of flimflam and horrible things. I do know that some of the convo between Bull and Dorian (taken without context and without the acting) were being read as purely abusive (there's one where Bull talks about ripping off Dorian's robe and taking him vigorously - which some people read as 'by force' - and a lot of people had problems with that, for example). 

 

For me, personally, I cannot, simply cannot, see Iron Bull as abusive. It is antithetical to his nature. Look at how much he cares for the Chargers, and what he sacrificed for Krem - a total stranger - and how his romance plays out with the Inquisitor. There is never any indication that he indulges in abuse for the sake of power or thrills. Everything he does is with lines clearly drawn, and I can't help but imagine the same would be true between him and Dorian. That's not to say there wouldn't be a heavy element of play - even forceful play - between the two men, but it wouldn't be abuse in the sense of Bull trying to control and deliberately hurt Dorian against his will.

 

On the same side, I can't see Dorian as accepting an abusive relationship. He literally just gave up his entire life so as to avoid abuse, essentially, from his father. I can't think he'd then turn around and hand himself (figuratively speaking) over to a man who would then take away the very self agency he had demonstrated so strongly in leaving his father and life behind in the first place. He's a thirty year old man by the time Inquisition starts, after all, and not a naive boy who expects rainbows and sunshine. Would he *like* that? Of course, but he'd never admit to it. After all, when the Inquisitor tells Dorian that he wants more than pure physicality, Dorian even goes so far as to call it a unicorn - a mythical beast he can't be sure even exists, especially for him. Within that context, I can see him falling into bed with Bull after a night of drinking while tipsy - and I can see Bull making absolutely sure it is the kind of night Dorian needs, even if Dorian isn't aware of what his own need actually is. Which would catch him by surprise, and make him want to go back to Bull to explore more.

 

As well, the fact that the 'relationship' began as a role-playing bout between the two writers is also very revealing. Role play is very different than writing - without the rules of plot to follow, you're more free to let the characters have fun and do unexpected (though not OOC) things than you would be if you approached it from a strictly plot point of view. In truth, the Adoribull connection feels very much like a 'now put them together and make them kiss' moment in RP, and so the writers laughed and ran with it in the game itself.

 

Keep in mind that at first I was *very* reticent about the whole Adoribull thing. I read the banter and felt uncomfortable, to the point where one of my playthroughs with a hetero Male Adaar left Iron Bull unrecruited because I didn't want to 'risk' Adoribull. However, I've done a lot of playing and thinking about both Iron Bull and Dorian since then, and I think that Gaider hit it on the head: it's an exploration for Dorian - and, to a lesser extent, Bull. It might be a great idea, it might be the worst thing ever to happen to both of them, but it isn't abusive and it isn't 'wrong' - or at least, no more wrong than, say, a mage Hawke and Fenris in DA2. So my view on the matter evolved, and now I'm comfortable with the concept, even if I, personally, don't ship it.

 

What I DO hate is the 'woobification' of the relationship - the ones who try to turn it into 'twu wuv' and make them act like two teenagers in love. That, it definitely is NOT for either men, and that approach to the relationship is such a mischaracterization of both men it actually DOES upset me.

 

But that's another matter entirely.

[nightscrawl]

What I DO hate is the 'woobification' of the relationship - the ones who try to turn it into 'twu wuv' and make them act like two teenagers in love. That, it definitely is NOT for either men, and that approach to the relationship is such a mischaracterization of both men it actually DOES upset me.
 
But that's another matter entirely.

That's... a thing that happens? (This is the reason I only read my own fanfic, in addition to not caring about other peoples' Inquisitors.)

I can see Dorian being angsty because of some of his issues, but I really can't see him being openly mushy. There might also be some stuff in his head along those lines, but again, not openly mushy or excessive. You see bits come out here and there, so the emotion is there. I think of Dorian as an emotional guy, but not to the extent that he would make it obvious to everyone around him. I mean, hell, he practically yells at the Inquisitor when he reveals the extent of his feelings after Adamant... lol...

 

Those Pavus men and their emotions... /sigh

 

 

[edit]

I'll add too that comments like this make me give my own writing and characterization a second glance. I think it can be difficult to know where to draw the line, especially when most behavior is reserved for private moments, and also that we never get to see in the game. I take a lot of my cue from how Dorian is in the post-sex conversation scene. He really has (mostly*) no reservations during that and is completely open, so I think that can be an indicator of how he might be later on after the relationship is even more established, in addition to the adoring look he gives when you take the kiss-on-demand option.

 

* Of course he still doesn't tell you what he wants, although it's very obvious. He really does seem to be more of a "show, not tell" kinda guy, which is another angle I take advantage of.

[tklivory]

Offtopic, Nightscrawl, but MAKER I LOVE YOU for the mod you put up on the Nexus.   Thank you sooooo much! I tried to make a similar mod for myself a while back but just never got the time to implement it properly.

 

Back on topic... Sorta...

 

Yes, the woobification is a thing that happens. It's the part of Tumblr I generally avoid. I don't like woobification in general, and in Dragon Age it seems to be most prevalent with the human male LIs (Alistair, Anders, and now Cullen and Dorian with Iron Bull being an auxiliary victim). It just... doesn't fit the characters, but most ESPECIALLY it doesn't fit Dorian.

[Gervaise]

I think a lot of the problem with reading any of the dialogue over on the Wiki is that you tend to put your own interpretation and emphasis on what is said.    I think you can pick up on the actual voice acting on You tube, which would be better.

 

The thing that bothers me about some of the dialogue between Bull and Dorian is that reading it, it can sound at times like Bull is denigrating Dorian, at others like he is dominating him.  "I will conquer you".    It is definitely a different sort of relationship than that enjoyed by Dorian and the Inquisitor.

 

Also there are comments made by other people about Dorian.    Cole says that Dorian thinks "hurting is what he is".    Alexius couldn't work out whether Dorian was behaving as he did to spite his father or "punish himself".     Now it could be that the play acting in their relationship is to some extent feeding that insecurity in Dorian that causes him to behave in the way he does.     From that point of view Bull may well be what Dorian feels he "needs" and so to that extent Bull may be quite right in saying that they are good for one another based on what he has observed and even been told by Dorian.      My personal view is that it is reinforcing a view of himself that is not healthy and even if he does leave the relationship, he will not have grown emotionally in a stable and positive way.

 

I have previously pointed out the added problem of how the relationship would be viewed back in Tevinter.    However much Dorian wants to believe he is keeping it secret, people talk and once Bull has let the cat out of the bag, that will be it.     It would be bad enough if Bull was simply a former Qunari agent but if he is still a fully paid up member of the Qun, then I would have thought the Imperium would regard it as nothing short of treason.     It also does seem a little odd that Dorian can claim to love his country so much he would be willing to leave the Inquisitor in order to save it, and yet would quite willingly stay with Bull when he is working for a regime that definitely wants to destroy it.   I would emphasise I don't think Bull is being deliberately manipulative or oppressive, just that Dorian is not making the best of choices for himself because of how messed up he has been mentally.     Think of how Dorian lays into Gatt over the Qun and then ask yourself how he can turn that around in his head to form a relationship with Bull.    Of course that could also be true of the Inquisitor.    I've only ever played my Inquisitor as anti-Qun, saving the Chargers and being generally non-antagonistic towards Tevinter but I know not everyone does that.

 

So that's how I view it.   I realise not everyone will agree with me so please don't get all outraged or anything.     I don't even have this as a problem on any of my runs because on the whole I don't use Bull much, except for dragon hunting because he enjoys it so much, so the likelihood of the two of them hooking up is very remote.  However, I am rather glad to keep it that way and let Dorian either experience true devoted friendship or true devoted love, both of which I hope will have a positive, long lasting effect on him that will ensure he never does go back to his former self destructive ways.

[shinynotshiny]

I think a lot of the problem with reading any of the dialogue over on the Wiki is that you tend to put your own interpretation and emphasis on what is said.    I think you can pick up on the actual voice acting on You tube, which would be better.

 

The thing that bothers me about some of the dialogue between Bull and Dorian is that reading it, it can sound at times like Bull is denigrating Dorian, at others like he is dominating him.  "I will conquer you".    It is definitely a different sort of relationship than that enjoyed by Dorian and the Inquisitor.

 

Also there are comments made by other people about Dorian.    Cole says that Dorian thinks "hurting is what he is".    Alexius couldn't work out whether Dorian was behaving as he did to spite his father or "punish himself".     Now it could be that the play acting in their relationship is to some extent feeding that insecurity in Dorian that causes him to behave in the way he does.     From that point of view Bull may well be what Dorian feels he "needs" and so to that extent Bull may be quite right in saying that they are good for one another based on what he has observed and even been told by Dorian.      My personal view is that it is reinforcing a view of himself that is not healthy and even if he does leave the relationship, he will not have grown emotionally in a stable and positive way.

 

I don't think Bull would consciously feed Dorian's self-destructiveness, and I also don't think Bull would be blind to that self-destructiveness. Even so, that's a good point about Dorian possibly gravitating towards Bull because he wants to punish himself.

[Arlee]

Personally I don't put Bull and Dorian together in any of my PTs because there are aspects of it that make me feel rather uncomfortable, and I sort of tend towards the view it isn't a very healthy relationship for either of them really. But I don't at all agree with people who view it as abusive. There's a huge difference between unhealthy and abusive imo. Also, I feel like anyone who has at least watched the Bull/Iquisi romance would get the fact he's not an abusive sort of person. Anywho, that's my two cents on it.

[tklivory]

[source]

[Dr. Doctor]

On the whole Bull and Dorian thing:

Bull is pretty comfortable with himself, which would make sense considering that he's been raised by his culture to serve in the role that he was apparently born to play.

Dorian's got a lot of bad memories tied up with who he is deep inside. Going off of the banter between him and a romanced Bull everything starts similar to what we hear about his past in WOT2. To him it's a bit of a stopgap measure, Bull's a fun guy but if his romance is anything to go off of things won't get anymore serious unless Dorian brings the topic up. This probably won't happen unless he can work up the courage to say what he wants.

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

[source]

You find great art.

[Sui Causa]

I love adoribull as much as I love the romances between both Iron Bull, Dorian, and the Inquisitor, which leaves me in a tight spot every time I roll a new game because I always feel terrible that I can't romance both. ;w; Which has lead me down a dark path of slow burn OT3 and it's a terrible thing, but that aside...

 

Spoilers for massive tl;dr because I'm an idiot who has it really bad for these guys. Patrick Weekes and David Gaider are monsters and should feel bad. Also just want to make sure I specify somewhere that this is for tal-vashoth Iron Bull. I don't think Dorian and a qun!Iron Bull would end well, same as I don't think qun!Iron bull and the Inquisitor is going to end well. I think David Gaider's "an epic mistake" would pretty much sum up anything involved with handing your squishy heart over to a qunari that would be immedietly slated for re-education if he considered accepting it or Koslun-forbid actually return the sentiment.

Spoiler

I think both Iron Bull and Dorian are both damaged men, who deal with their issues in entirely different ways. Dorian constructs a beautiful charming mask to present himself to the world with, a mask that he hangs on to when flirting with the Inquisitor, wondering if they'll want him in the morning. The mask he uses when he's pressing the Inquisitor to admit whether or not they want more from the relationship or not. Hiding the hurts behind glitter and gloss, etc. He's got his coping mechanisms and they definitely aren't the healthy sort, and since joining the Inquisition I like to think he is focusing on becoming a better man in his personal life while he envisions revolutionizing Tevinter as a whole.

 

Iron Bull also has a mask! Except he doesn't go for glitter and gloss, he goes for 'Haha, I'm just a brute of a warrior what do I know.' He presents himself as a viscious tool for destruction, but he's way more than that. He presents himself as a dumb warrior with no real sense of calculating, when in reality he's incredibly clever and intelligent. I could go on for frickin' hours about Iron Bull but I won't because this totally isn't the thread for it, but just to summarize, you have a man who was raised in a very twisted society, who managed to suck up all of the good and bottles up all of the bad and presses it down inside. He's got severe **** going on from what he witnessed in Seheron, and suddenly he's no longer being monitored so closely by the Qun, and can start dealing with things like normal people do: Sex and alcohol, surrounding yourself with friends and pepole you can trust with your life.

 

When faced with each other they have an amazing clash of cultures and pre-conceptions. Dorian immedietly starts digging at Iron Bull because 'there has to be more to him'.  He expects that the more is just Iron Bull waiting to sink a knife in the 'vints back and be the qunari brute he's expecting. Iron Bull deflects, continually. Dorian shoves, Iron Bull flirts and teases. Dorian is frustrated as hell because this is not where he's expecting this to go or the reaction he wants to get. You gotta imagine that there's a lot of looks and consideration when Dorian thinks Iron Bull isn't looking, but of course Bull is watching for it because he planted those ideas in Dorian's head to begin with, he damn well knows that he's getting oggled. Dorian does have a thing for strapping qunari, after all. If the Inquisitor isn't packin the goods to eye up, then I guess Iron Bull will have to do!

 

Eventually Iron Bull calls him on it, Dorian protests loudly because how dare you think I'd be interested in that with you. The Inquisitor hears all over how people who bed the Iron Bull are happy with their results, so Dorian would have heard the same thing. Eventually he drinks enough to think 'what the hell' and goes to see if Bull's all bark or not.

 

I imagine this is the kind of thing Patrick Weekes and David Gaider RP'd out. I fuckin love this to bits. This is how it starts, they're still in the middle of working it out when the game is revving up. Iron Bull isn't the kind of to get lovey dovey with someone he's bedding, but the same as the Inquisitor once he's got his attentions on someone he drops into manogamy with ease. Dorian's mask and his Tevinter-induced suffering wouldn't be left intact for long under Iron Bull's attention. I don't think either of them are the kind to loudly pronounce feelings, I don't think Iron Bull would be the one to declare that he's horribly in love. I think in his own way he'd help Dorian come to terms with what he wants, though. I think when Dorian figured out what he needed, Iron Bull would find himself more than willing to give it to him. Same as with the Inquisitor.

 

So yeah, I think Iron Bull is very capable of having a healing effect on Dorian. He does it in a much different way than the Inquisitor, probably involves quite a bit of rope and some bite marks, but they're all the same result. He's a sweet guy, I'm hoping we're good for each other. is a beautiful piece of forward thinking that matches perfectly with Dorian's nervous laugh and 'You know how it is.' They have the goddamn world stacked against them, but maybe when Dorian decides to take Tevinter by storm, a hired mercenary troop might be the best kind of backup to take along? Haha.

 

They're not the ideal prince charming + his lovely bride romance, oh god no. They're not the cute and fuzzy snuggles under the moonlight, but they're their own brand of awesome and I'm so unbelievably happy that a canon gay romance was given to us in such a sexy, sexy package. ♥ My only regret, as I invision my little elf Inquisitor eyeing them both with big doe eyes, is WHY NOT BOTH?!

[nightscrawl]

The mask he uses when he's pressing the Inquisitor to admit whether or not they want more from the relationship or not.

Interesting post. However I do disagree with this one bit. I think Dorian is pretty open during that whole exchange. No, he doesn't come right out and tell you what he wants, but the look on his face and his attitude should be enough. As soon as he starts the conversation with "I’m curious where this goes, you and I," his face changes; the mask drops completely when the Inquisitor says, "Tell me what you want," because he basically has to lay it all out there when he explains it.

 

This is why I said that I think Dorian is a "show, not tell" sort of guy. You can also see this in that he has to be provoked into revealing his feelings.

 

I suppose it took someone who is really into all three (IQ/Bull, IQ/Dorian, Dorian/Bull) romances to really give me the response I was looking for, which was a comparison between the two romances and how Dorian reacts to them. So, I thank you for that.

[Sui Causa]

Interesting post. However I do disagree with this one bit. I think Dorian is pretty open during that whole exchange. No, he doesn't come right out and tell you what he wants, but the look on his face and his attitude should be enough. As soon as he starts the conversation with "I’m curious where this goes, you and I," his face changes; the mask drops completely when the Inquisitor says, "Tell me what you want," because he basically has to lay it all out there when he explains it.

I'm being kind of a horrible person bringing this part up, but the mask Dorian puts up if the Inquisitor says he just wants to keep things casual is what I was referring to, which is one of the most horrible things to do to Dorian, but it really demonstrates his ability to throw up his shields and protect himself. He goes from open and readable to 'Haha, well of course it's silly to expect anything differently', and slams the doors while he's breaking apart inside.

 

I absolutely agree that a not heartless jerk of an Quizzie can show just how open and soft Dorian really is under all that bluster, and I imagine that's exactly what Iron Bull is talking about when he says Dorian is a sweet guy. :3

 

(editing to format this properly, responding on my phone is terrible.) My brain is way too stuck on this stuff right now, mostly because I'm in the middle of writing this exact kind of stuff for fanfic and it really puts me in the mood to ramble about these guys.

[nightscrawl]

I'm being kind of a horrible person bringing this part up, but the mask Dorian puts up if the Inquisitor says he just wants to keep things casual is what I was referring to, which is one of the most horrible things to do to Dorian, but it really demonstrates his ability to throw up his shields and protect himself. He goes from open and readable to 'Haha, well of course it's silly to expect anything differently', and slams the doors while he's breaking apart inside.
 
I absolutely agree that a not heartless jerk of an Quizzie can show just how open and soft Dorian really is under all that bluster, and I imagine that's exactly what Iron Bull is talking about when he says Dorian is a sweet guy. :3
 
(editing to format this properly, responding on my phone is terrible.) My brain is way too stuck on this stuff right now, mostly because I'm in the middle of writing this exact kind of stuff for fanfic and it really puts me in the mood to ramble about these guys.

OH, yes I also agree. I watched that scene for the first time recently and was amazed at Dorian's reaction. I mean, I figured it would be bad, but it was pretty upsetting to see him immediately shut down like that. He was so clearly disappointed. (I'll point out that I didn't have the heart to pick my usual path of asking what he wants first, thus getting the whole explanation and then still telling him you want to keep it casual.)

 

Hm... now that I think about it, I think this is one example where the game -- out of necessity since they can't have options for everything -- is lacking in responses. It seems odd to be able to have these differing reactions from the Inquisitor. Let's say that your Inquisitor is not a total jerk and either misread some of Dorian's signals (he does give a few before this), or really did just want a casual fling to begin with. I don't really get how you can see how Dorian is reacting in this scene and, even if you don't want 'more,' and still state it so casually and indifferently. I seriously wanted to punch my Inquisitor in the face when I watched that scene; he is sitting there, smiling like an ass, while Dorian looks upset. How obtuse can someone be to completely not register this other person's emotions??

[tklivory]

[source]

[Sui Causa]

OH, yes I also agree. I watched that scene for the first time recently and was amazed at Dorian's reaction. I mean, I figured it would be bad, but it was pretty upsetting to see him immediately shut down like that. He was so clearly disappointed. (I'll point out that I didn't have the heart to pick my usual path of asking what he wants first, thus getting the whole explanation and then still telling him you want to keep it casual.)

 

Hm... now that I think about it, I think this is one example where the game -- out of necessity since they can't have options for everything -- is lacking in responses. It seems odd to be able to have these differing reactions from the Inquisitor. Let's say that your Inquisitor is not a total jerk and either misread some of Dorian's signals (he does give a few before this), or really did just want a casual fling to begin with. I don't really get how you can see how Dorian is reacting in this scene and, even if you don't want 'more,' and still state it so casually and indifferently. I seriously wanted to punch my Inquisitor in the face when I watched that scene; he is sitting there, smiling like an ass, while Dorian looks upset. How obtuse can someone be to completely not register this other person's emotions??

Yeeeeup, I don't think theres a way an Inquisitor can go through that scene without just being a frickin' scumbag. They're grinning because they're causing pain and they like it, that's my explanation. But I can't really go through any break up without feeling like the lowest of the low. But it really does demonstrate how Dorian deals with **** when it's forced on him. The poor guy really doesn't deserve that kind of douche baggery.

 

On the other spectrum, during Iron Bull's romance scene where everyone walks in and everything is hilarious, you can also see a great deal of how he deals with things too. When the Inquisitor treats Iron Bull like trash, a dirty secret that now that it's out, 'I'm going to laugh it off and belittle him in front of my advisers,' Iron Bull has a very...Iron Bullish response as well. Just like Dorian, the mask goes up. He flirts with Josephine, and in a laid back easy way, breaks it off, makes it about the other person as always, and walks away from the whole thing. Even while he's looking sad like a dejected puppy, because at that stage in the game he's already let the big 'k' word slip, and it just goes to show you how much Iron Bull feels even though he plays it off. Iron Bull, on his own ability, decided that the Inquisitor was special to him, which is huge. The Inquisitor gets the chance to seal the deal and pull Iron Bull in deeper, showing that it's okay to love. Or be an absolute ass. Push him away, and reaffirm in Iron Bull's mind that the only thing he deserves is to be the amusement park attraction. Go on the ride and say 'hey that was fun, see ya'. He's so 100% about the other person, making them happy, getting them to a place where they're happy and relaxed. It's so easy to take advantage of that, and when the Inquisitor does, oh god what a monster.

 

These are all things I've looked at before quickly reloading and choosing all the warm fuzzy options to cleanse my soul because HOW COULD ANYONE DO THESE THINGS?! At least there's no way Adoribull could ever end in such a disaster as a jerk-face Inquisitor could cause. Dorian is Dorian. He protests loudly to Iron Bull's attentions but in private he's showing Iron Bull something gentle and sweet, I rest assured that Dorian would never mistreat Iron Bull that way, the same way Iron Bull would let Dorian work things out at his own pace, while being the steady loyalty that and open easy going-ness Dorian needs at the time. He pushes him forward when Dorian digs his heels in too deep, doesn't let him fall back into his old ways of sneaky affairs no one can find out about, shameful and sordid dalliances here and there. Makes him face what he is and what he wants, then gives it to him without judgment.

 

At worst they get bored with each other and move on to other people, both of them better people for their efforts. At best they grow old together, Dorian still rolling his eyes at Iron Bull's jokes when they're 60. Iron Bull pointing out a grey hair just to watch Dorian preen. That kind of thing.

[nightscrawl]

At least there's no way Adoribull could ever end in such a disaster as a jerk-face Inquisitor could cause. Dorian is Dorian. He protests loudly to Iron Bull's attentions but in private he's showing Iron Bull something gentle and sweet, I rest assured that Dorian would never mistreat Iron Bull that way, the same way Iron Bull would let Dorian work things out at his own pace, while being the steady loyalty that and open easy going-ness Dorian needs at the time. He pushes him forward when Dorian digs his heels in too deep, doesn't let him fall back into his old ways of sneaky affairs no one can find out about, shameful and sordid dalliances here and there. Makes him face what he is and what he wants, then gives it to him without judgment.

You're... really getting to my head with this stuff.


[Personal Inquisitor stuff, feel free to skip.]

See, on the one hand I want Dorian to get certain things out of the relationship with my Inquisitor. My guy knows that this relationship stuff is new to Dorian and he wants him to come about things at his own pace. On the other hand, my Inquisitor feels how he feels and reacts accordingly. I play him as more openly affectionate than Dorian, to the extent that it's probably pretty obvious how he feels about him from early on. I find it difficult to know how Dorian would react to that, beyond being initially surprised and perhaps a bit overwhelmed; he's never had this before, so it's all new. But, we've seen that he does have that soft caramel center, you just have to get through the chocolate, the peanuts, and the chewy nougat to get to it.

 

This is one of the (several) reasons I like to pursue the sexual path with him. Dorian is a man who does like and enjoy sex. However, his history with it is somewhat rocky and does have some darker elements. I'm not saying that sex is required (for the aces among us), but it does help a couple to grow closer because of the level of intimacy involved. I like the idea of them growing closer over time, with sex being one of the agents of that closeness, and that Dorian can see that this sexual relationship is different from the others because of that element of 'more.'

 

 

In this thread we've spoken a great deal of Dorian's anxiety over the relationship's permanence. I find this anxiety extremely difficult to characterize, particularly as the relationship goes on and evolves because it just doesn't seem to me that Dorian has a reason for it. I know he has no prior experience with a permanent relationship, but if everything that your boyfriend is saying and doing says one thing, and you still think another, at some point it just becomes irrational. I get that some concerns and fears are irrational; even if the front of your mind knows one thing, the back nags at you with doubts -- this is an aspect of his personality that I personally relate to, wanting to say "get the f outta my head!" to some things.

 

There really is no clearer indication of his anxiety than after Adamant when he says, "I thought: 'This is it. This is where I finally lose him forever,' " and again during the 'about the future' dialog when he says, "We could go our separate ways, if you prefer. I've been a port in a storm before. I would understand," and afterward adds "You're the Inquisitor. You're the one with responsibilities. I am but an adornment upon your arm."

 

So again, I know he has personal reasons for it, but the Inquisitor has never given him reason to think that way.

 

 

(I will say that this angst is part of what makes the romance so great... I need help, I'm sure.)

[nightscrawl]

Here is an art to make up for my posting...

 

Spoiler

From hauvatiaene on tumblr. This artist has a series of companions fears based on the gravestones in the Fade. I do suggest looking at them all.

 

I really like the symbolism used with Dorian's and like the fact that they didn't use sex as I've seen on some tarot card pieces, which just seems trite for him at this point.

[Han Yolo]

I cannot look away. helpme

http://xla-hainex.tu...my-bioware-love

[nightscrawl]

^ Now that is totally his morning look. Maker, he's gorgeous.

[Fredward]

Random pic of Dorian giving Morrigan some major side-eye:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Serelir]

I'm afraid I haven't read all 820 pages, but I was thinking about Dorian last night and realized that he reminds me of one of my favorite cousins, Charles Chaillé-Long. Check out the 'stache!

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Though I must add that Dorian makes the most marvelously acidic comments whenever we're away from civilization.