22176 réponses à ce sujet

[Arlee]

^ Even in my perfect play where I ran around all the maps for hours I still never got the Cole romance banter to fire. I'm really starting to think that you have to have had the banter series about Halward before locking in the romance in order for that to trigger, but I've never heard from anyone who has gotten it during a play, so I have no idea. Also, that banter series usually fires pretty late into the Cole/Dorian friendship for me, and waiting that long would mean I'd have to progress far into the game before locking in the romance, which I don't want to do. I suppose one day I may have to try abusing the banter trigger in Cheat Engine to test out this theory.

 

Related, I liked the conversation triggers in the various Trespasser locations. Those were quite nice, and I just adored the romance ones.

 

I finally got the Cole romance banter to happen running around the deep roads, that's how I realized it was firing dialogue I hadn't heard before And I literally spent hours wandering around the desert and Emprise du Lion trying to get it to happen. I mean this PT was my completionist one where I got all the mosaics and all the other things too ><

 

The conversation triggers were awesome! I hope they do this in the future. I mean it's nicer when banters just sort of happen on their own, but this is much better than them never happening at all.

[nightscrawl]

I finally got the Cole romance banter to happen running around the deep roads, that's how I realized it was firing dialogue I hadn't heard before And I literally spent hours wandering around the desert and Emprise du Lion trying to get it to happen. I mean this PT was my completionist one where I got all the mosaics and all the other things too ><

 

The conversation triggers were awesome! I hope they do this in the future. I mean it's nicer when banters just sort of happen on their own, but this is much better than them never happening at all.

 

Descent is next up for me (I burned through the Cory fight to finally play Trespasser) in my process of crafting my ultimate "perfect" play with all DLC, which will involve my playing through Tres again.

 

I liked that they were more full-on conversations rather than a few lines. There were a couple where the entire party participated (I ran Trespasser with Dorian, Cole, Cassandra) and they were just great.

[devSin]

Spoiler

I didn't get "booty call" from the epilogue slide, and I think that is an unfortunate description. The Inquisitor, or the man who was Inquisitor, has no place in the Tevinter Imperium, even if he is a Trevelyan. It wouldn't be helpful to Dorian, not only because of the m/m relationship**, but also because of who the specific man was -- the Inquisitor -- and he wouldn't really have anything to do on a regular basis. Dorian is going to be doing his magister thing and that doesn't leave the Inquisitor (or former Inquisitor) with a lot of options.

Spoiler

I wanted to jump in to say that it may not have been the best phrase to convey my issue with the epilogue.

To me, there's a tawdry feeling in how the Inquisitor is said to secretly haunt Dorian (on "rare occasions", in hushed whispers) and rescue his boo from trouble. It's not that the slides were intending to convey a literal booty call, it's just that it feels a bit gross to me and seems to run counter to the entire romance arc (I never got the sense that the ending would be venturing back into the closet, and then we're said to only show our face to do for Dorian the things he said he needed to do by himself).

I still haven't really decided how I feel about it overall; this is simply one small part that I found to be disappointing (I'm not saying the romance is bunk or the DLC overall is a disappointment, but I'm not sure I'll ever be totally fine with this epilogue; I like seeing everybody's opinions on it, as it gives me new avenues for interpreting it).

[Gervaise]

Well done for getting the Cole dialogue during the Deep Roads.   I tried it but still no success; I'm think I'm fated never to get those particular lines.    Don't really care now after Trespasser.    I think the Dorian dialogue was wonderful, even when just a friend, but the romance for me was perfect.  

 

To be honest, regardless of what  they might have decided beforehand, once the "sh*t hit the fan" with Solas it was obvious that a comfortable retirement together was not going to be an option.    I mean if Dorian hadn't wanted to leave I think my Lavellan would have practically forced him to.   Tevinter is probably the only place with the knowledge to scupper Solas' plans.    Do you recall the information about Alexius and his wife in WoT2?    Alexius and Dorian worked on time magic but Livia and her apprentices specialised in the Veil and the Fade.   Given what Alexius managed to achieve, may be Livia was close to a break through too.  Remember how Dorian was really concerned about how our trip to the Fade might give people ideas?   I'm pretty sure that rummaging about among Alexius and Livia's research notes might turn up something useful.    I'm pretty sure that next game Dorian is going to be "Our friend in the North" and the new PC will be working for him as some sort of agent.

 

By the way, welcome back Nightscrawl - I noticed you were missing.

[Reznore57]

Spoiler

I wanted to jump in to say that it may not have been the best phrase to convey my issue with the epilogue.

To me, there's a tawdry feeling in how the Inquisitor is said to secretly haunt Dorian (on "rare occasions", in hushed whispers) and rescue his boo from trouble. It's not that the slides were intending to convey a literal booty call, it's just that it feels a bit gross to me and seems to run counter to the entire romance arc (I never got the sense that the ending would be venturing back into the closet).

 

Spoiler

I had the feeling it wasn't about being back in the "closet" , the m/m relationship wasn't the main issue.

I may be wrong but the way I see it Dorian has trouble dealing with the Inquisitor and his influence.I suspect daddy's issue.

The fact is the Inquisitor is more powerful than Dorian , and even in the north , Dorian is not a holy hero who survived the breach , faced down a magister and his dragon at Haven and then open up a fade rift into the creature.

He has friends in Tevinter but so far Maevaris is the most powerful , and the rest is baby magisters and he has to play the nanny.

Compared to the Inqui and his network of friends it's laughable.

 

Anyway I think Dorian wants to prove himself , I'm pretty sure he would openly date another Tevinter mage .But dating the Inquisitor openly = people will say Dorian only suceeded because he was the Inquisitor lover and the Inqui was pulling strings in the background.

 

My personal headcanon is at one point my Inqui will be less and less understanding , and they will have a  shouting match about it.But I also imagine my Inqui would pull strings in the background no matter what Dorian wishes.(totally having spies watching Dorian , to be warned if he's in danger)

And if Solas is heading in Tevinter and gathering elven slaves , my Dalish is so going to go there and cause mayhem , Dorian's hair is going to turn all grey.

 

Anyway my Dalish is a bit of a hotheaded imbecile at times so works for me.

[Arlee]

I liked that they were more full-on conversations rather than a few lines. There were a couple where the entire party participated (I ran Trespasser with Dorian, Cole, Cassandra) and they were just great.

 

I decided to definitely do four of my PTs in Trespasser (Cullen, Solas, and two Dorian) and the upside is because of the different classes it is allowing me to bring a different group of companions each time. Although I totally forgot in my Solas pt I didn't ever do Bull's personal quest... so that was a bit of a rude awakening lol. But yea the full conversation aspect of the convos was definitely a plus. Also I feel bad but I love hearing Dorian cuss it always makes me smile for some reason even though he doesn't it when he's upset ><

 

Spoilering a possible Trespasser thing just in case.

Spoiler

Because I like hearing Dorian cuss I was really happy I had him my party (because honestly he's the one companion who is actually always in my party) when Iron Bull betrayed me. I think that was the longest strain of curses I have ever heard him say

[Arlee]

Spoiler

I had the feeling it wasn't about being back in the "closet" , the m/m relationship wasn't the main issue.

I may be wrong but the way I see it Dorian has trouble dealing with the Inquisitor and his influence.I suspect daddy's issue.

The fact is the Inquisitor is more powerful than Dorian , and even in the north , Dorian is not a holy hero who survived the breach , faced down a magister and his dragon at Haven and then open up a fade rift into the creature.

He has friends in Tevinter but so far Maevaris is the most powerful , and the rest is baby magisters and he has to play the nanny.

Compared to the Inqui and his network of friends it's laughable.

 

Anyway I think Dorian wants to prove himself , I'm pretty sure he would openly date another Tevinter mage .But dating the Inquisitor openly = people will say Dorian only suceeded because he was the Inquisitor lover and the Inqui was pulling strings in the background.

 

My personal headcanon is at one point my Inqui will be less and less understanding , and they will have a  shouting match about it.But I also imagine my Inqui would pull strings in the background no matter what Dorian wishes.(totally having spies watching Dorian , to be warned if he's in danger)

And if Solas is heading in Tevinter and gathering elven slaves , my Dalish is so going to go there and cause mayhem , Dorian's hair is going to turn all grey.

 

Anyway my Dalish is a bit of a hotheaded imbecile at times so works for me.

 

Damn I ran out of likes again! >< But yes all of that... it's pretty much exactly how I think it will go... with the addition of I like to think Dorian figures out how to make two mirrors work similarly to the eluvians (but completely cut off and separate from the others) so they can visit each other pretty much whenever they want

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

I wanted to jump in to say that it may not have been the best phrase to convey my issue with the epilogue.

To me, there's a tawdry feeling in how the Inquisitor is said to secretly haunt Dorian (on "rare occasions", in hushed whispers) and rescue his boo from trouble. It's not that the slides were intending to convey a literal booty call, it's just that it feels a bit gross to me and seems to run counter to the entire romance arc (I never got the sense that the ending would be venturing back into the closet).

I still haven't really decided how I feel about it overall; this is simply one small part that I found to be disappointing (I'm not saying the romance is bunk or the DLC overall is a disappointment, but I'm not sure I'll ever be totally fine with this epilogue; I like seeing everybody's opinions on it, as it gives me new avenues for interpreting it).

 

Spoiler

I'll admit that the lack of narrator for the final slides really forced me to read through them quickly, so I might have missed out on some of the wording. But I do intend to play it again and have a better experience (not that the first wasn't already great) since I won't be fixated on finding out how it all ends. In the thread some time ago we were discussing fanfic and authors' penchants for having the Trevelyan Inquisitor being the KISA and saving Dorian as the "damsel" in distress. The description I read of the Adoribull result played out in a similar fashion. I'm not too keen on that if that's the case. Granted Tevinter is a dangerous and volatile place -- Halward was assassinated after all -- but that description is not my cup of tea.
 
In my post I used the word "flaunting" to refer to how the relationship would be seen in Tevinter. That is unfortunately the reality of the situation there. However, I don't get the feeling that Dorian is "back in the closet." I actually don't think he was ever in it as we think of it. He limited himself to sexual encounters only, which isn't really that big of a deal there; the problem came in with his excess. It's not about his sexuality, it's about placing more value on a same-sex relationship than is typically done in Tevinter. Dorian refers to himself as a "pariah." I'm sure there are many people there that know he's homosexual. I'm sure there are also rumors, either confirmed or strongly suspected as such, of his serious, committed relationship with the Inquisitor. That is a big no-no. But it's one thing to know a thing, and another to see the reality of it. Tevinter is all about appearances, and it just wouldn't be helpful to have his boyfriend/husband/whathaveyou there for the entire Imperium to see.

 

And then there is the "I need to do this myself" aspect that Reznore57 mentioned. I had actually wondered if there might be a different result for disbanding the Inquisition, which I did, -- "Our work is done. It's time to lay down our swords and go home," -- since the former Inqquisitor would have less power and influence, but I think they resolved that nicely with the continued Solas threat.

 
 

By the way, welcome back Nightscrawl - I noticed you were missing.

Thanks!
 
 
 

Spoiler

Because I like hearing Dorian cuss I was really happy I had him my party (because honestly he's the one companion who is actually always in my party) when Iron Bull betrayed me. I think that was the longest strain of curses I have ever heard him say

OMG please post what happened. You don't have to quote verbatim or anything, but a general description. I'm not likely to ever see this result.

[Gervaise]

Dorian's star is rising as the Inquisitor's is on the wane.    Dorian reminds you how he foresaw the way things would go once Cory was out of the way but it sounded to me like the crucial part of the original decision was how he suddenly did have the political clout to make a difference in Tevinter.    I always thought that when he first talked about returning and said that we'd inspired him with our antics, that he'd somehow missed the bit about the shiny green hand and the huge back up team.   As a nobody pariah who was going to take him seriously?    But as a Magister, with a group of other Magisters supporting him, now he can make a difference.

 

I did wonder if Halward getting him the ambassador job was solely to get him out of harm's way or whether you could also see it as him finally accepting Dorian's choices in life and supporting him in them.

 

Don't know why anyone sees the odd visit as just booty call.    It is a long distance romance much of the time because we both still have important things to do but obviously it is going to be nice to occasionally get together again simply to be in each other's presence.     In any case, we have the Thedas equivalent of the mobile phone to keep in touch; if Dagna could manage to link it to a seeing crystal we'll have Skype.   I don't know about anyone else but there is a hell of a lot more to my Dorian romance than just sex.

[nightscrawl]

In any case, we have the Thedas equivalent of the mobile phone to keep in touch; if Dagna could manage to link it to a seeing crystal we'll have Skype.   I don't know about anyone else but there is a hell of a lot more to my Dorian romance than just sex.

Hah... anyone familiar with the movie The Santa Clause? In it the kid get a magic snow globe that, when shaken, summons his dad Santa. At the end of the movie Santa finally has to go away and do his thing and the kid uses it a very short time after he's left. Yeah... that would so be my Inquisitor.

 

Dorian: I just left this morning, amatus.

Inquisitor: Just seeing if this thing works. I miss you already.

 

Spoiler

Some time ago I wrote a final night/day fic (no actual sex, but suggested). Most of it is rendered non-canonical now due to Trespasser, but it was certainly an emotional writing experience. I mentioned this before, but I really liked the confidence Dorian has in the relationship shown in Trespasser.

 

 

Um also, was anyone else bothered by yet another (third) pronunciation of "amatus"? Damn that was distracting. Don't suppose someone who has Twitter can ask DG which is the correct one? Ay-MUH-tuhs, AH-mah-tus, AH-mah-toos.

[Arlee]

 

OMG please post what happened. You don't have to quote verbatim or anything, but a general description. I'm not likely to ever see this result.

 

Oh sure!

 

Spoiler

So, the thing with Iron Bull if you let the Chargers die or foolishly don't do his personal quest he'll betray the Inquisition when you confront Viddasala. He'll do this even if he is in a relationship with the Inquisitor or in a relationship with Dorian. So I thought I'd get around this by just not bringing Bull in the party, but no dice on that. He still shows up and you have to kill him. Hilariously Dorian put his mark on him so after Bull died he went back to fighting for us, which I found funny and commented on. My husband thought it was funny/horrible when I said that ><

 

Anywho, after the fight is over the companions will comment on the situation. Blackwall made a comment about how in a weird funny way he was always honest with us since Bull said from the beginning he was a spy, Sera cusses a bunch and is generally pissed off about it all. The Dorian goes and starts with his "Kafas" and on and on. All in Tevine. Even more than how much he cussed in my pt where his romanced inquistor drank from the well. I'll check to see if I saved the video from it when I get home tonight. If I did I'll post it for you so you can see it all

[Reznore57]

Dorian's star is rising as the Inquisitor's is on the wane.    Dorian reminds you how he foresaw the way things would go once Cory was out of the way but it sounded to me like the crucial part of the original decision was how he suddenly did have the political clout to make a difference in Tevinter.    I always thought that when he first talked about returning and said that we'd inspired him with our antics, that he'd somehow missed the bit about the shiny green hand and the huge back up team.   As a nobody pariah who was going to take him seriously?    But as a Magister, with a group of other Magisters supporting him, now he can make a difference.

 

I did wonder if Halward getting him the ambassador job was solely to get him out of harm's way or whether you could also see it as him finally accepting Dorian's choices in life and supporting him in them.

 

Don't know why anyone sees the odd visit as just booty call.    It is a long distance romance much of the time because we both still have important things to do but obviously it is going to be nice to occasionally get together again simply to be in each other's presence.     In any case, we have the Thedas equivalent of the mobile phone to keep in touch; if Dagna could manage to link it to a seeing crystal we'll have Skype.   I don't know about anyone else but there is a hell of a lot more to my Dorian romance than just sex.

 

Spoiler

  Halward was supporting Dorian .That's why it's tragic , Dorian wasn't sure he was still the heir , but he was because he got his father's seat at the magisterium.

Also the Pavus familly has a lineage of fighting corruption in Tevinter , his father even if he was a bit of a moron about teh whole Tevinter breeding magisters program ...was also anti blood magic etc...Probably why he got shanked.

There's also a codex about a great great uncle Pavus or something who was already fighting corruption hundred of years ago.

 

With Dorian being a sentimental about his homeland and his family name (Pavus birthright) I think his ideal scenario is Tevinter is saved by its own people , with the Pavus name being one of the rallying call.

The Inquisitor in this scenario , would just be the supportive boyfriend bringing Dorian the champagne and flowers , and swooning before the mighty Dorian Pavus, before they both walk into the Sunset to be together forever.

[Arlee]

Um also, was anyone else bothered by yet another (third) pronunciation of "amatus"? Damn that was distracting. Don't suppose someone who has Twitter can ask DG which is the correct one? Ay-MUH-tuhs, AH-mah-tus, AH-mah-toos.

 

Yes! Totally confused me. And I'll ping him about it. Idk if he'll respond though because he's not working on Dragon Age anymore, but I'll tag Mike Laidlaw as well. Maybe one will respond.

 

Also I can't figure out rhyme or reason to why I have no likes one minute and then two the next :/

[Gervaise]

I feel it is a sort of reciprocal support.    During our fight with Corypheus, Dorian was there supporting and the one person my Lavellan knew he could absolutely trust (which was ironic really because at the beginning he didn't trust him at all - hence him doing CoJ), so now its round the other way and he's the one in the supporting role, at least so far as Tevinter is concerned.     The same applies of course if you are his best friend but that is why it is not just me head cannoning the nature of their relationship but it is clear that there is a real depth to their romance and both find inspiration from the other and the strength to keep going in the face of adversity.

 

Have just been viewing the Keep and the two decisions at the end plus IB are the only tiles there for Trespasser.    I wonder how significant those decisions will be when it comes to next game.   Will it just influence dialogue or will certain paths/quests be denied to you because you opted for one over the other?

[nightscrawl]

The same applies of course if you are his best friend but that is why it is not just me head cannoning the nature of their relationship but it is clear that there is a real depth to their romance and both find inspiration from the other and the strength to keep going in the face of adversity.

My Inquisitor considers Dorian to be his best friend as well as his lover, and I assume Dorian feels the same, so that all works out. I took heavy inspiration from the fact that a non-romanced Inquisitor is Dorian's best friend anyway, so I think it would follow that the same is true for a romanced one. They were friends first, lovers second.

 

Have just been viewing the Keep and the two decisions at the end plus IB are the only tiles there for Trespasser.    I wonder how significant those decisions will be when it comes to next game.   Will it just influence dialogue or will certain paths/quests be denied to you because you opted for one over the other?

I wouldn't read too much into it, honestly. DA4 is likely just a collection of notes and ideas at this point, so they could use anything. Perhaps as it comes under development they will change the Keep to add more DAI Trespasser tiles.

[AniDragon]

I've just begun playing Trespasser and I haven't got past the very beginning due to work, so I've been too afraid to take a peak behind any spoiler tags. Thus pardon me, if the following regarding Dorian's romance has already been discussed:

 

(Spoilers for Dorian's plot in Inquisition and the very first two scenes with him in Trespasser).

Spoiler

My Inquisitor was too supporting of Dorian's dream to go change his homeland for me to ever acknowledge you can actually talk Dorian into staying with the Inquisition. I only learned this after finishing the game by going through choices in the Keep.

So apparently a romanced Dorian, who stayed, greets Inquisitor in the first of his scenes by stating he's been away a month. He refers to you as Amatus and you can reply to him with a romance dialogue choice and the two kiss.
But for me, Dorian greeted me by saying he doesn't remember when we last met and his dialogue is more friendly than loving. The romance choice in the dialogue is not there and they don't kiss either. The romance starts to play normally after you've talked with Cyril and triggered Dorian's second scene. Cassandra also spoke about the romance beforehand.

Was this a bug or does it always happen when Dorian leaves for Tevinter rather than stays with Inquisitor? Does this choice have any other consequences? I'd rather avoid spoilers, so a yes/no will be sufficient.

Spoiler

I had the same thing with my romanced Inquisitor who encouraged him to go back. I'm hoping it's a glitch and someone will figure out how to fix it soon.

 

The romance is acknowledged properly in the rest of the DLC, though, as far as I can tell. Some slightly different dialogue choices.

[nightscrawl]

^ You know, that might not be an actual glitch.

 

Spoiler

I'd say that feeling a bit distant initially can sometimes be natural after a long separation. In this case it would be more pronounced due to the circumstances surrounding it -- Halward's assassination and so forth. So even though he still loves the Inquisitor and would be happy to see him again, being in Tevinter for an extended period might have a temporary chilling effect in that he had gotten used to being more emotionally distant while there, and had to re-build some walls, but warms up after a while.

 

Then again, it could in fact be a glitch, I just thought I'd throw that out there.

[devSin]

Spoiler

In my post I used the word "flaunting" to refer to how the relationship would be seen in Tevinter. That is unfortunately the reality of the situation there. However, I don't get the feeling that Dorian is "back in the closet." I actually don't think he was ever in it as we think of it.

Spoiler

The "closet" in this sense is not in hiding homosexuality but the relationship itself.

Much of the romance arc seems to deal with the development of a relationship that Dorian is both comfortable with and can be open about (his whole romance plot deals with not wanting to rely on you for fear of what effect it might have in how other people see you—something you resolve by helping him anyway and expressing that it's not untoward to do things for someone you love). It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure there's a specific beat where he even challenges you about being just a "dirty little secret"—something you forcefully protest against, but which actually turns out to be the case in reverse with this epilogue (isn't that basically what we're talking about? you're in a relationship that he won't openly acknowledge in Tevinter for fear of how it will affect his standing).

Honestly, I'm just not sure how to reconcile it with the arc in the main game. It goes from being two people finding their footing together and building a relationship that's more than just lust and something actually worthy of acknowledgement to "the love that dare not speak its name". I'm perfectly fine with the separation (which was inevitable, since Dorian will be in DA4 and the Inquisitor won't)—they don't have to be attached at the hip for the rest of their lives—but there's something about the epilogue that makes it feel icky, and I can't seem to shake it. (Maybe if it was a decision that you were actually included in, and the epilogue was less "rumored on rare occasions" and more "quietly helped when needed"?)

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

The "closet" in this sense is not in hiding homosexuality but the relationship itself.

Much of the romance arc seems to deal with the development of a relationship that Dorian is both comfortable with and can be open about (his whole romance plot deals with not wanting to rely on you for fear of what effect it might have in how other people see you—something you resolve by helping him anyway and expressing that it's not untoward to do things for someone you love). It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure there's a specific beat where he even challenges you about being just a "dirty little secret"—something you forcefully protest against, but which actually turns out to be the case in reverse with this epilogue (isn't that basically what we're talking about? you're in a relationship that he won't openly acknowledge in Tevinter for fear of how it will affect his standing).

Honestly, I'm just not sure how to reconcile it with the arc in the main game. It goes from being two people finding their footing together and building a relationship that's more than just lust and something actually worthy of acknowledgement to "the love that dare not speak its name".

 

Spoiler

I've seen all of the amulet dialogue options and I don't recall that particular phrasing. I could be wrong though.

 

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. To me there are two aspects of it. The first is not openly acknowledging the relationship in Tevinter. He's not hiding it (as per the letter in Dorian and the Last Few Years), but he's not running around proclaiming it either. Some people likely know, some don't. It's really none of anyone's business. However, the second, and to me more significant, aspect is how Dorian deals with it internally and how that affects his view of the relationship. I've mentioned that in Trespasser Dorian seems confident in the relationship. That is real. That is important. That is not something he had 2.5 years previous.

 

I'm not going to diminish your view of the matter, but I really don't have that kind of vibe. To me the entire thing played out exactly as I thought it would, as as I think it should based on Dorian's character. He is completely his own person, no longer weighed down by his father and that lingering pain, and is doing what he feels he needs to do. In fact I feel that if his views about the relationship were that restrictive that he wouldn't have continued it in the first place. The decision is not one made out of shame, but of practicality: he is there, as a magister -- a title and position he never wanted -- for a specific purpose. To meet those goals he is willing to risk personal danger and the emotional pain of separation and is asking his amatus to be supportive of that and to endure it with him.

 

I suppose that in the end it really just comes down to what your expectations for the relationship were, both in the main game and going forward into Trespasser.

 

Really the only problem I have with it is that I don't really see a way for them to ever be together, considering the circumstances, which is quite depressing. So let's say that in the space of five years the Inquisitor, or former Inquisitor, deals with the whole Solas issue. What then? While my guy would love to go up there and live with Dorian, he doesn't have a place in Tevinter. I think that would only make the, "keep my live-in boyfriend a secret vibe" that much stronger. I know Dorian wouldn't want that for either of them, regardless of how blissful the first few weeks might be.

[Arlee]

^ You know, that might not be an actual glitch.

 

Spoiler

I'd say that feeling a bit distant initially can sometimes be natural after a long separation. In this case it would be more pronounced due to the circumstances surrounding it -- Halward's assassination and so forth. So even though he still loves the Inquisitor and would be happy to see him again, being in Tevinter for an extended period might have a temporary chilling effect in that he had gotten used to being more emotionally distant while there, and had to re-build some walls, but warms up after a while.

 

Then again, it could in fact be a glitch, I just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

Dorian things:

 

Spoiler

Yea, I don't think that's a glitch because it seems like it makes sense. It isn't unusual even for two people who are very close to be hesitant and a bit blocked off at first when they reunite. I seriously doubt Dorian honestly doesn't remember when the last time was, that would be him being himself when he's trying to protect himself.

 

As promised Bull things:

 

Spoiler

I actually didn't have the video saved but luckily I had a save right before that mission so I was able to queue it up and run through again real quick for you

 

This is the scene when Bull shows up if you didn't bring him with you.

 

And this has Dorian, Blackwall, and Sera's reactions after.

 

I apparently was so happy with him cussing that my brain over inflated how much there was >< But I still really like all their reactions

[devSin]

I've seen all of the amulet dialogue options and I don't recall that particular phrasing. I could be wrong though.

I don't believe it was part of that plot (it was a different conversation). I'm pretty sure there's one where the Inquisitor essentially says "you know you're more than that to me", in response to a bitter remark from Dorian about his own worth or some such.
 

Spoiler

I'm not going to diminish your view of the matter, but I really don't have that kind of vibe. To me the entire thing played out exactly as I thought it would, as as I think it should based on Dorian's character. He is completely his own person, no longer weighed down by his father and that lingering pain, and is doing what he feels he needs to do. In fact I feel that if his views about the relationship were that restrictive that he wouldn't have continued it in the first place. The decision is not one made out of shame, but of practicality: he is there, as a magister -- a title and position he never wanted -- for a specific purpose. To meet those goals he is willing to risk personal danger and the emotional pain of separation and is asking his amatus to be supportive of that and to endure it with him.

Spoiler

But did he really ask that? It was never something that could be discussed (you basically had to react to it the same way as any other Inquisitor, by telling him he didn't have to go, wishing him luck, or infuriatingly "I guess there's nothing more to say"). You couldn't express support for him and your continued relationship, and in the end, there doesn't seem to be any mutual understanding (you're not described as working with Dorian, even if from a distance, but instead just showing up secretly in extremely rare instances to solve some problem of his). It just all feels very impersonal and one-sided, not two people in a committed relationship who are mainly separated by necessity (or are we supposed to infer that it's really just a slow break-up and they only talk and help each other out from time to time?).

This is another case where the relationship with Iron Bull is in better standing, because Dorian states they're working through it together, and the epilogue makes a point of keeping (and showing) them together even though Bull can't live in Tevinter.

Spoiler

Really the only problem I have with it is that I don't really see a way for them to ever be together, considering the circumstances, which is quite depressing. So let's say that in the space of five years the Inquisitor, or former Inquisitor, deals with the whole Solas issue. What then? While my guy would love to go up there and live with Dorian, he doesn't have a place in Tevinter. I think that would only make the, "keep my live-in boyfriend a secret vibe" that much stronger. I know Dorian wouldn't want that for either of them, regardless of how blissful the first few weeks might be.

Spoiler

I actually wouldn't be surprised if they are broken up in DA4. Depending how much time has passed (maybe 10 years?), I'm not sure BioWare is going to try to have them still be a couple yet living separately for so long. (Are other people expecting that they eventually reunite, or is this pretty much the end, even if it's not exactly spelled out that way in the DLC?)

[AniDragon]

Spoiler

I've seen all of the amulet dialogue options and I don't recall that particular phrasing. I could be wrong though.

 

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. To me there are two aspects of it. The first is not openly acknowledging the relationship in Tevinter. He's not hiding it (as per the letter in Dorian and the Last Few Years), but he's not running around proclaiming it either. Some people likely know, some don't. It's really none of anyone's business. However, the second, and to me more significant, aspect is how Dorian deals with it internally and how that affects his view of the relationship. I've mentioned that in Trespasser Dorian seems confident in the relationship. That is real. That is important. That is not something he had 2.5 years previous.

 

I'm not going to diminish your view of the matter, but I really don't have that kind of vibe. To me the entire thing played out exactly as I thought it would, as as I think it should based on Dorian's character. He is completely his own person, no longer weighed down by his father and that lingering pain, and is doing what he feels he needs to do. In fact I feel that if his views about the relationship were that restrictive that he wouldn't have continued it in the first place. The decision is not one made out of shame, but of practicality: he is there, as a magister -- a title and position he never wanted -- for a specific purpose. To meet those goals he is willing to risk personal danger and the emotional pain of separation and is asking his amatus to be supportive of that and to endure it with him.

 

I suppose that in the end it really just comes down to what your expectations for the relationship were, both in the main game and going forward into Trespasser.

 

Really the only problem I have with it is that I don't really see a way for them to ever be together, considering the circumstances, which is quite depressing. So let's say that in the space of five years the Inquisitor, or former Inquisitor, deals with the whole Solas issue. What then? While my guy would love to go up there and live with Dorian, he doesn't have a place in Tevinter. I think that would only make the, "keep my live-in boyfriend a secret vibe" that much stronger. I know Dorian wouldn't want that for either of them, regardless of how blissful the first few weeks might be.

Spoiler

Eh, if the Inquisitor does eventually follow him to Tevinter (which I headcanon mine will once the stuff with Solas is dealt with), I don't think he'd necessarily be a secret. Mae was openly married to a Dwarven man, and considering that she's a transgender woman, Tevinter probably considered that just as scandalous as Dorian having a relationship with a man.

 

Granted, Mae's husband was assassinated, and I think that the risk of that would probably be a bigger concern for Dorian than any scandal would be.

[nightscrawl]

I don't believe it was part of that plot (it was a different conversation). I'm pretty sure there's one where the response is essentially "you know you're more than that to me", in response to a bitter remark from Dorian about his own worth or some such.

OH. This is during the "about the future" dialogue. When Dorian asks what you want to do and suggests that you can go your separate ways afterward, "I've been a port in a storm before. I would understand," you can respond with, "Are you saying this because that's what you want?" to which Dorian says that he is "but an adornment upon your arm," and you then can say, "You know you're more than that to me," (my usual response).

 

Spoiler

But did he really ask that? It was never something that could be discussed (you basically had to react to it the same way as any other Inquisitor, by telling him he didn't have to go, wishing him luck, or infuriatingly "I guess there's nothing more to say"). You couldn't express support for him and your continued relationship, and in the end, there doesn't seem to be any mutual understanding (you're not described as working with Dorian, even if from a distance, but instead just showing up secretly in extremely rare instances to solve some problem of his). It just all feels very impersonal and one-sided, not two people in a committed relationship (or are we supposed to infer that it's really just a slow break-up and they only talk and help each other out from time to time?) who are mainly separated by necessity.

Spoiler

You do have the option to ask whether this means that it's over, after which Dorian verbally proclaims his love -- which astounded me -- and basically talks about a long-distance relationship. He knows it's going to be hard, but to me it seems like he wants to make it work as best it can. IMO that's all you can really ask of him. I could elaborate, but it really comes down to the individual Inquisitor.

 

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if they are broken up in DA4. Depending how much time has passed (maybe 10 years?), I'm not sure BioWare is going to try to have them still be a couple yet living separately for so long. (Are other people expecting that they eventually reunite, or is this pretty much the end, even if it's not exactly spelled out that way in the DLC?)

Spoiler

In general I would prefer that he not come back for DA4 simply because I don't want to have him written by someone other that David Gaider. I'm not going to take it as a given that he will be in the next game, even if Trespasser strongly forecasts it. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm also hoping that the next book DG is working on will take place in Tevinter and contain some Dorian bits, even if it's a few passages about what he's doing in the Magisterium. Apparently Fenris is going to make an appearance and he said that writing Fenris again was "like slipping on an old pair of comfortable yet bitchy shoes," so I'm thinking this is post-DA2 Fenris, not pre-DA2 where he would still be a slave.

 

Regarding a breakup, as far as I've observed from the romances, there is no precedent for that. All of the games have their long-distance relationships and it's specifically stated for several that the couple is still together. Warden and Alistair, Warden and Leliana, Warden and Morrigan, Hawke and various; I don't see why the Inquisitor and Dorian couldn't also be added to the list.

 

I don't think in any way that it's suggested that this is the end. None of the cutscenes say that to me, nor does any of Dorian's actual dialogue.

 

If he is in DA4 there could very well be similar stuff to the DAI content regarding Leliana and a romanced Warden.

 

In the end, we'll just have to accept that our views on the matter are different.

[devSin]

In the end, we'll just have to accept that our views on the matter are different.

Spoiler

I'm not sure that they are, at least entirely (I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly)? Certainly I have a bleaker interpretation of the tone of the epilogue, but I still agree with most of your observations regarding Dorian's character (like I said, I'm fine with the separation; I'm just dissatisfied in the way it's expressed, both in the lack of ability to actually come to an agreement as a couple and with an epilogue that to me has an air of the down-low about it that raises alarms).

And I didn't get the impression that they were breaking up (I only ask because you didn't sound convinced that they can stay together, and I just wanted to put the question out there to see what other people were thinking about any potential future). Me not being surprised if they were broken up in future is not an indication that I think it will happen (or that I wouldn't be disappointed), just that I probably wouldn't be shocked if it did happen.

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

I'm not sure that they are, at least entirely (I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly)? Certainly I have a bleaker interpretation of the tone of the epilogue, but I still agree with most of your observations regarding Dorian's character (like I said, I'm fine with the separation; I'm just dissatisfied in the way it's expressed, both in the lack of ability to actually come to an agreement as a couple and with an epilogue that to me has an air of the down-low about it that raises alarms).

And I didn't get the impression that they were breaking up (I only ask because you didn't sound convinced that they can stay together, and I just wanted to put the question out there to see what other people were thinking about any potential future). Me not being surprised if they were broken up in future is not an indication that I think it will happen (or that I wouldn't be disappointed), just that I probably wouldn't be shocked if it did happen.

 

Spoiler

To me the nature of these games requires that there be some fill-in by head-canon. How much depends on the player obviously, but you have two people who are in an involved relationship, not only in the main game but also as presented as lasting a further two years. Yet we only see a small amount of that interaction as a couple. What does a relationship entail? Being together, most of the time doing mundane things, talking, and so forth. We don't see any of that, so it's up to the player to determine the personal tone of their relationship. This applies to ALL relationships across all of the games.

 

So I don't personally feel that there was a "lack of ability to actually come to an agreement as a couple." Hell, I wrote an entire fanfic because I was dissatisfied with the post-Mythal dialogue and wanted to elaborate on it. That fanfic is head-canon for me because of how the Tevinter issue gets dealt with. Now, I'm not one to suggest that head-canon can blatantly override facts as presented in-game (I know some don't have issue with this), but it can be used to fill in gaps that are still in keeping with the tone as set by the game itself. So really, by the time Trespasser comes around my Inquisitor is somewhat expecting this, but has allowed himself to be living the fantasy of this past two years of togetherness. My guys have already talked about it, so I'm fine with how it went down, and with the dialogue options presented. I actually choose the first irritated dialogue option after the friends have departed, questioning whether Dorian was going to say anything, because even though it was expected eventually, it was a sudden and jarring way to learn about it, and Dorian knows it, too.

 

During the "Inquisitor is dying" dungeon-dialogue-banter you have the option to express your love and state that the past two years have been great and you wouldn't trade them for anything. That was perfect for me (although I wish it hadn't been said in the middle of a dungeon). I think it applies to Dorian as well. Three years ago I doubt he was even able to fathom that he would be an an involved, committed relationship with another man; the past two years must have seemed like a dream for him.

 

When I said that I don't think they can be together, I was referring to a state where they are actually together permanently as a couple, like they have been for the past two years. I think their relationship can remain, but they can't actually be together, in the same way that my Warden and Alistair aren't together. Considering the past two years of stability, I think my Inquisitor/Dorian have the most stable relationship of any of my DA characters.