22176 réponses à ce sujet

[devSin]

Spoiler

To me the nature of these games requires that there be some fill-in by head-canon. How much depends on the player obviously, but you have two people who are in an involved relationship, not only in the main game but also as presented as lasting a further two years. Yet we only see a small amount of that interaction as a couple. What does a relationship entail? Being together, most of the time doing mundane things, talking, and so forth. We don't see any of that, so it's up to the player to determine the personal tone of their relationship. This applies to ALL relationships across all of the games.

Spoiler

In this instance, I felt that the dialogue was simply too restrictive. You can imagine that they know about it and they're in agreement, but the dialogue presents itself both as being a surprise and forcing you to respond in three generic ways (which aren't even unique to the romance), none of which really felt appropriate to me.

I think it was partially redeemed by him describing the separation as being "for a time" (so you know it's not "this is goodbye", or at least that's what he wants to believe), but I still don't think it was satisfactory to not be able to support him (with an implication that you'll figure things out together); it's not as if they were really pressed for time in that particular instance, so having it be so peremptory just seemed awkward.

But I definitely agree that it's a personal thing as to how well it works, and I appreciate you expanding on your own view.

Spoiler

When I said that I don't think they can be together, I was referring to a state where they are actually together permanently as a couple, like they have been for the past two years. I think their relationship can remain, but they can't actually be together, in the same way that my Warden and Alistair aren't together. Considering the past two years of stability, I think my Inquisitor/Dorian have the most stable relationship of any of my DA characters.

Spoiler

Don't you think Dorian would end the relationship rather than string things along when he realizes they'll never be together? That seems to be consistent with your description of him previously.

Or do you think that's a relationship they both want and/or would be satisfied with?

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

Don't you think Dorian would end the relationship rather than string things along when he realizes they'll never be together? That seems to be consistent with your description of him previously.

Or do you think that's a relationship they both want and/or would be satisfied with?

 

Spoiler

I don't consider that to be stringing things along. Again, I have to reference the previous (optional) quote from the "about the future" dialogue: "You're the Inquisitor, amatus. King of the world. I am pleased with whatever time I can have, while I can."

 

This is what it is for them. In my head Dorian knows that my Inquisitor will be there when he's needed and that he does support this decision. It's important to my Inquisitor because it's important to Dorian. Dorian is willing to make that sacrifice, and my Inquisitor is willing to make it as well, for Dorian. This is what "more" is for them as I play it out.

 

When I said previously that "I feel that if his views about the relationship were that restrictive that he wouldn't have continued it in the first place," I was primarily referencing the social moors in Tevinter and Dorian's changed attitude toward them. They're still there, and Dorian understands them and knows that they can have an impact on his effectiveness, but this isn't the same Dorian that left Tevinter originally. At this point he has had that relationship -- a relationship two years strong -- so rather than making him feel that sex is all there is and all he will ever have with other men, that he is not deserving of that emotional connection, the social moors are simply an obstacle, as any other, that he has to overcome. I think he's moved past the intense pain associated with them as a result of his relationship with the Inquisitor.
 

To answer your question: no I don't think it's what either of them want, but they will make do because right now it's the only option available to them (as I see it). We'll have to see how things change in Thedas and in Tevinter as time goes on.

 

I suppose my view about the relationship is not as bleak as yours because it's something that I've long expected, even as it was sad to see it actually play out in the game. In fact, while I liked it, I felt that the whole of Trespasser was depressing because it just seemed so final. DAI is truly one of my favorite games of all time, and it's over. But I only just finished it earlier this morning, so it's going to take me a while to get over the feeling.

[nightscrawl]

Btw, since I keep raising this issue...

 

I don't know if it was patch 10 or not, but my recent test regarding the talking vs not talking at the party still has the alternate post-game dialogue, but the tile selection problem in the Keep seems to be fixed. But... given the way Trespasser plays out, even though I like the "Not the only reason" dialog better that results from not talking to him, I might actually pick the other instead, as he clearly procrastinated with his, "Just a little longer then." "Longer," as it turns out, appears to have been two whole years .

[Gervaise]

Just thought I'd mention that Dorian and the Inquisitor have not been the only romance that has had to endure a long period apart while each side is dealing with issues important to them.    My Warden and Zevran were apart for over 10 years but I got a letter from the Warden to say they were now back together again and off in the west looking for that cure.    Another Warden was in a romance with Leliana,   Again we had a long period apart when the only contact would appear to be by letter but at the end of Trespasser he is back and living with Leliana on the Waking Sea.   So there is every reason why some time in the future an update will have Dorian and his beloved finally united.  

 

The epilogue is clearly just filling in the gap of time before the next game.    So both parties are heavily involved in dealing with important matters.    My Lavellan trained as an assassin, which is useful all things considered, even if he will have to get up to scratch using a knife instead of his beloved bow.   Dorian once offered to introduce him to Tevinter assassins, who Dorian claims are way more deadly than the Crows, if he was interested in improving his skill, so he has a perfectly legitimate reason for going to see Dorian but wanting to keep the whole thing low key.   To be honest, he'd feel he was slipping up if rumours are getting out about his visits.    The whole idea is that no one should know.   He's working from the shadows to keep Dorian safe when other important matters aren't keeping him away.    

[nightscrawl]

Well the problem with, "The epilogue is clearly just filling in the gap of time before the next game," is that they have stated, numerous times, that Dragon Age is not Mass Effect, was never supposed to have a recurring hero, and never will.

 

Spoiler

So the problem then comes in with the plot of the next game and how that will tie in with DAI. Obviously the hunt for Solas is important and our Inquisitor is supposed to be doing that. But how are they going to tie that up? Is it going to be given as much play in DA4 as the mage/templar conflict was in DAI? I wouldn't mind that, but I know there were many players that felt the issue was too important to be gotten through in the first act of the game -- and I think that those were obviously remnants of the scrapped Exalted March expansion. Also, the end of Trespasser really makes it clear that this is something that the Inquisitor, or now former Inquisitor, is involved in. How will that be handled if they are not the protagonist of the next game? Will we be getting a cameo like Hawke?

 

The knife in Tevinter at the end of Trespasser clearly suggests where we'll be going next, and of course that begs the question: will Dorian be the DAI follower to carry over into the next game? What will his role be: follower like Varric, or advisor like Leliana? How will the romance factor into that? Will it get a similar treatment to Leliana's romance with the Warden? If there is a cameo will we actually get see some romance content between the two? I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, honestly. On the one hand, it is of course something that I would love to see since I'm crazy about this character and the romantic pairing. On the other hand a cameo appearance will NOT be controlled by the player, as Hawke wasn't, so I'm not sure I would want my Inquisitor saying things to Dorian that I wouldn't actually say. My character is the more serious and openly emotional one in the relationship (before Trespasser anyway), and Dorian's dialogue responses can play off that depending on what you choose during the game, and I'd rather not have that dynamic altered.

[Arlee]

Well the problem with, "The epilogue is clearly just filling in the gap of time before the next game," is that they have stated, numerous times, that Dragon Age is not Mass Effect, was never supposed to have a recurring hero, and never will.

 

Spoiler

So the problem then comes in with the plot of the next game and how that will tie in with DAI. Obviously the hunt for Solas is important and our Inquisitor is supposed to be doing that. But how are they going to tie that up? Is it going to be given as much play in DA4 as the mage/templar conflict was in DAI? I wouldn't mind that, but I know there were many players that felt the issue was too important to be gotten through in the first act of the game -- and I think that those were obviously remnants of the scrapped Exalted March expansion. Also, the end of Trespasser really makes it clear that this is something that the Inquisitor, or now former Inquisitor, is involved in. How will that be handled if they are not the protagonist of the next game? Will we be getting a cameo like Hawke?

 

The knife in Tevinter at the end of Trespasser clearly suggests where we'll be going next, and of course that begs the question: will Dorian be the DAI follower to carry over into the next game? What will his role be: follower like Varric, or advisor like Leliana? How will the romance factor into that? Will it get a similar treatment to Leliana's romance with the Warden? If there is a cameo will we actually get see some romance content between the two? I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, honestly. On the one hand, it is of course something that I would love to see since I'm crazy about this character and the romantic pairing. On the other hand a cameo appearance will NOT be controlled by the player, as Hawke wasn't, so I'm not sure I would want my Inquisitor saying things to Dorian that I wouldn't actually say. My character is the more serious and openly emotional one in the relationship (before Trespasser anyway), and Dorian's dialogue responses can play off that depending on what you choose during the game, and I'd rather not have that dynamic altered.

 

And tying into all of that Weeks has confirmed on twitter that all the people who romanced Solas will get some sort of resolution in the future here... So obviously there's going to be a lot of things. I can't really see how they'll do it without having the inquisiter as the main hero, but then I start to wonder at what shinangins they might do because of the missing half arm... and I just don't even know ><

[Reznore57]

And tying into all of that Weeks has confirmed on twitter that all the people who romanced Solas will get some sort of resolution in the future here... So obviously there's going to be a lot of things. I can't really see how they'll do it without having the inquisiter as the main hero, but then I start to wonder at what shinangins they might do because of the missing half arm... and I just don't even know ><

 

You never know with DA.

I'd bet all my money Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor , but with DA2 reception it wasn't ment to be ...they wanted to wrap things up in the Exalted March expansion (the well of Sorrow was supposed to happen there ^^)and bam canceled.

 

Spoiler

For now they left the door open , The inquisitor is the one leading the charge against Solas .

In one case the Inquisitor says "I have a world to save"

In the other "my adventuring days may be over".

There's three hints about a prothesis , in Sera's epilogue , a text about an articulated backscratcher made in silverite , and the iron hand in the Qunari fort.

The whole line about find other people ...well you can find new companions , new agents , new spymaster etc..doesn't really mean the Inqui has to go.I mean Yeah Solas knows my inqui kills people , a lot of them...so what?

 

Or the Inqui will be turned into a npc.

[nightscrawl]

And tying into all of that Weeks has confirmed on twitter that all the people who romanced Solas will get some sort of resolution in the future here... So obviously there's going to be a lot of things. I can't really see how they'll do it without having the inquisiter as the main hero, but then I start to wonder at what shinangins they might do because of the missing half arm... and I just don't even know ><

 

Considering my Inquisitor is an SnS warrior who now doesn't have a way to use a shield... yeah combat would be interesting.

 

Well, now that Patrick Weekes is the lead writer I wonder if their stance on any of those rules will change, or was that a Laidlaw/Darrah decision (to have a different protagonist every game) that is set in stone. We'll see!

 

 

You never know with DA.

I'd bet all my money Hawke was supposed to be the Inquisitor , but with DA2 reception it wasn't ment to be ...they wanted to wrap things up in the Exalted March expansion (the well of Sorrow was supposed to happen there ^^)and bam canceled.

 

Spoiler

For now they left the door open , The inquisitor is the one leading the charge against Solas .

In one case the Inquisitor says "I have a world to save"

In the other "my adventuring days may be over".

There's three hints about a prothesis , in Sera's epilogue , a text about an articulated backscratcher made in silverite , and the iron hand in the Qunari fort.

The whole line about find other people ...well you can find new companions , new agents , new spymaster etc..doesn't really mean the Inqui has to go.I mean Yeah Solas knows my inqui kills people , a lot of them...so what?

 

Or the Inqui will be turned into a npc.

 

Spoiler

OH I hadn't noticed those hints, interesting, thank you. After I do my full play of Descent and JoH I'm going to play through Trespasser again in a less anxious/hectic fashion and will hopefully spot more things like this. BUT, if they do give some sort of "fix" it had better have more than a passing mention. Losing a hand us a HUGE f-ing deal and coming up with some deus ex machina so it's not an issue would not please me.

 

And yes, you do "never know with DA." I really don't trust any of those people at all. >.>

 

 

All of that aside... I'm really not sure if I want to see Dorian again not written by David Gaider. I mean, I do and I don't. It's a terrible conflict.

[Reznore57]

All of that aside... I'm really not sure if I want to see Dorian again not written by David Gaider. I mean, I do and I don't. It's a terrible conflict.

 

I feel the same.

I'm sure D.Gaider would review things a bit , so it wouldn't be completly OOC , but then if Dorian comes back , whatever writer got him will choose what happens...the main thing is just keeping the tone of the character right.

The thing is David Gaider really isn't cruel or rolling in the tears of fans as much as he liked to pretend.

All of his romance can end up in a good way.There's always a bit of bitter , don't get me wrong.

But nothing really bad.

Besides all his character are really witty , Alistair , Morrigan , Zevran , even Fenris had a deadpan sense of humor , Dorian ...maybe not Cassandra but flirting with her is pretty hilarious.

 

Oh well, we'll see how it goes.I'm slightly nervous about Weekes , there's some stuff he did I really enjoyed a lot , but there's other stuff I simply can't stand at all.

[Arlee]

omg if they deus ex out the hand thing I'd be super pissed

 

Also, I'll have to look but I could have sworn Gaider said somewhere even though he isn't officially on DA anymore if there is writing to be done with one of his characters he'd still be doing it.

[Reznore57]

omg if they deus ex out the hand thing I'd be super pissed

 

Also, I'll have to look but I could have sworn Gaider said somewhere even though he isn't officially on DA anymore if there is writing to be done with one of his characters he'd still be doing it.

 

If they would bring back the Inquisitor and says look you've got your hand back magic!

Well might as well keepthe hand in the first place.But if you got a prosthesis and there's some roleplay element about it , like the Inqui being angry he has to learn to fight again , or Jeez I used to hunt dragons and now I have to run !How am I supposed to stop a God now!(because you're level one !)

Why not! It's not like the inqui can never fight ever again because he lost a hand.Doesn't even make sense for a powerful mage...Solas was turning people to stone with his eyes.A knight Enchanter should still be able to invoke a blade etc...

[nightscrawl]

Lol @ the level 1 thing. It is pretty amusing if you think about it, but I've never been bothered by that like some players are. But that does seems like it would be one argument for a new protagonist: their growth in power seems natural rather than importing a character from a previous game who then has to level up again after being able to kill dragons and wannabe gods. And let's not forget that all of our shiny gear is gone.

 

Speaking of importing... I REEEEEALLY don't want to have to recreate my Inquisitor from scratch. Man, I'm whiny just thinking about it. I'm using the same level 3 save file I created back in November 2014 with the same guy.

 

And to bring it back to Dorian... if he IS in DA4 I'm really wondering what, if anything, they'll do with his hair. Leliana having her same bob is one thing, but Dorian has a really specific style. I'm actually hoping that they might incorporate that stylish beard from the concept art.

 

Spoiler

 

 

omg if they deus ex out the hand thing I'd be super pissed

 

Also, I'll have to look but I could have sworn Gaider said somewhere even though he isn't officially on DA anymore if there is writing to be done with one of his characters he'd still be doing it.

 

If this is accurate this seems to suggest that Dorian would only have a minor role if he were to be in DA4. Writing a character is a significant investment depending on what the character does. A full-on new follower or advisor like we had in DAI would be quite a bit of work.

[devSin]

Well, now that Patrick Weekes is the lead writer I wonder if their stance on any of those rules will change, or was that a Laidlaw/Darrah decision (to have a different protagonist every game) that is set in stone. We'll see!

The decision belongs to Mark and Mike. It's not going to change (even recently, Mike has affirmed that the DA series does not follow a single protagonist—it's a story about the world and events, not an individual).

The Inquisitor likely won't be in DA4 (though perhaps he'll be mentioned, similar to how the Warden and Hawke have come up in subsequent titles). I personally don't think there will be a Hawke-like role; I think that situation was relatively unique because of the canceled expansion (parts of which were incorporated into DA3).
 

If this is accurate this seems to suggest that Dorian would only have a minor role if he were to be in DA4. Writing a character is a significant investment depending on what the character does. A full-on new follower or advisor like we had in DAI would be quite a bit of work.

David has never said he will continue to write existing characters (he didn't even always do that when he was still on the franchise).

Patrick said their policy would be to allow the original writer to review any content (to check tone and personality), but any writing will be done by somebody who's actually on the team (i.e., not David). (Trespasser seems to be a unique situation because most of the writers had apparently already moved to different teams.)

I'd bet heavily that Dorian won't be a companion in DA4 (he will be an NPC).

[nightscrawl]

The Inquisitor likely won't be in DA4 (though perhaps he'll be mentioned, similar to how the Warden and Hawke have come up in subsequent titles). I personally don't think there will be a Hawke-like role; I think that situation was relatively unique because of the canceled expansion (parts of which were incorporated into DA3).

Well I didn't mean that Patrick had any real say, but they might listen to his view on the matter. He is coming from Mass Effect, and will just generally have a different thought process than David Gaider. While I agree that there are certain things that the Dragon Age franchise is about, I don't think they are beyond changing their mind if they have a good enough reason to.

 

Do note that I am a fan of having a new protagonist in every game, but it's just so difficult to imagine how they will work around the whole Solas thing if the Inquisitor isn't involved, given the events in Trespasser. Did he just stop caring, or what? If Trespasser hadn't ended in that way, then I might be more inclined to agree with you.

 

Of course, they could just herald in a new age and have the game take place in 9:98-99 and then we won't have to worry about ANY returning characters. However, that's rendered unlikely by Solas's suggestion that sh-t is going to do down sooner rather than later.

[devSin]

It's just so difficult to imagine how they will work around the whole Solas thing if the Inquisitor isn't involved, given the events in Trespasser. Did he just stop caring, or what? If Trespasser hadn't ended in that way, then I might be more inclined to agree with you.

Solas' madness is something that is going to impact the entire world (it's also not necessarily going to be the focus of the next game).

The mage/templar war seemed to be something that Hawke would be heavily invested in, yet the story moved on without him, just as it will for the Inquisitor.

[nightscrawl]

Last I'll say about it since it is digressing from the Dorian thread.

 

I understand the scope. But the events of Trespasser show that the Inquisitor is heavily invested in the outcome. Even if it's across the continent, I really don't foresee him not being involved at all. As I said, if Trespasser hadn't existed, or hadn't ended as it had, then I would agree with you. But given those events, I find the lack of inclusion of our Inquisitor in some fashion unlikely, and I certainly think that he merits more than a mere mention.

 

However, I'm sure there are people who said the same thing regarding our Warden and that whole sub-plot of DAI, but they worked around that. So we'll just have to see. I'm really open to anything, I just want it to be done well and in a manner that makes sense.

[Arlee]

David has never said he will continue to write existing characters (he didn't even always do that when he was still on the franchise).

Patrick said their policy would be to allow the original writer to review any content (to check tone and personality), but any writing will be done by somebody who's actually on the team (i.e., not David). (Trespasser seems to be a unique situation because most of the writers had apparently already moved to different teams.)

I'd bet heavily that Dorian won't be a companion in DA4 (he will be an NPC).

 

Yea I was going back through his twitter and I'm not seeing what I was thinking of. It's also particularly annoying because I know he tweeted about writing Fenris again being like slipping on a comfortable pair of bitchy slippers... but can't even find that one :/ Oh well.

[nightscrawl]

Here you go:

 

@davidgaider

Writing Fenris again. Like slipping on an old pair of comfortable yet bitchy shoes.

[Joe25]

As a musician I can't possibly express my happiness at this comment. You have made my day sir

Then you will really love this way of remembering the modes.

 

I Dorian Pavus love M.A. Lavellan   

(Ionian) (Dorian) (Phrygian) (Lydian) (Mixolydian) (Aeolian) (Locrian) 

[Dr. Doctor]

Spoiler

Disbanded or not the Inquisitor is still Herald of Andraste and the person who stopped the destruction of the world. Odds are that the Solas arc isn't going to be finished next game, it might be refreshing to tell a story on a smaller scale that helps build into the major plot started in Tresspasser.

[nightscrawl]

Spoiler

Disbanded or not the Inquisitor is still Herald of Andraste and the person who stopped the destruction of the world. Odds are that the Solas arc isn't going to be finished next game, it might be refreshing to tell a story on a smaller scale that helps build into the major plot started in Tresspasser.

 

So...

DAO - world-ending calamity

DA2 - single-city, personal story that has ramifications for the rest of Thedas

DAI - world-ending calamity

DA4 - personal story?

DA5 - world-ending calamity?

 

Also... I'm... really not into the elves at all. I just have no interest in them, I don't care. Of the non-human groups I find the dwarves much more compelling and I'd really like to see some more of that content. Sadly I suppose that Dragon Age will be concerned with the elves and their plight for the foreseeable future. *Sigh.*

 

That said, if we go to Tevinter and there is a slave uprising that would be quite compelling.

[nightscrawl]

Since we haven't had any Dorian in a while...

 

Spoiler

 

"You do know we have all the time in the world now."

"You say that, but I'm not waiting until the sky splits open again."

[TagiDoll]

Ight, so I finally finished Trespasser (ran through with a new game on nightmare before getting to it.) I chose to romance Dorian this time (previously was Jose).

 

I should have picked him first. He was perfect ....pretty sure this play through will be my head cannon.

 

 

 

Now I will read back through pages and pages to catch up on my lurking.

[Arlee]

Here you go:

 

@davidgaider

Writing Fenris again. Like slipping on an old pair of comfortable yet bitchy shoes.

 

Yay! thanks I was beginning to think I had gone batty... though I thought there was more to it, but oh well /shrug.

 

Then you will really love this way of remembering the modes.

 

I Dorian Pavus love M.A. Lavellan   

(Ionian) (Dorian) (Phrygian) (Lydian) (Mixolydian) (Aeolian) (Locrian) 

 

Haha! That is fantastic

 

So...

DAO - world-ending calamity

DA2 - single-city, personal story that has ramifications for the rest of Thedas

DAI - world-ending calamity

DA4 - personal story?

DA5 - world-ending calamity?

 

Also... I'm... really not into the elves at all. I just have no interest in them, I don't care. Of the non-human groups I find the dwarves much more compelling and I'd really like to see some more of that content. Sadly I suppose that Dragon Age will be concerned with the elves and their plight for the foreseeable future. *Sigh.*

 

That said, if we go to Tevinter and there is a slave uprising that would be quite compelling.

 

I mostly feel the same as you do, but with the revelation of things in Trespasser I am leaning far more on the side of everything being more interelated than most people are thinking. Like the whole Veil thing obvious affected everyone not just the elves.

 

Ight, so I finally finished Trespasser (ran through with a new game on nightmare before getting to it.) I chose to romance Dorian this time (previously was Jose).

 

I should have picked him first. He was perfect ....pretty sure this play through will be my head cannon.

 

 

 

Now I will read back through pages and pages to catch up on my lurking.

 

Cheers! I had a very similar experience, but I did Cullen and Solas first

[Gervaise]

Dorian has remarkable foresight; do you suppose he can actually predict the future?   No longer travels in time physically, just in his mind?    Those lines you quote from the party do seem very pertinent now.     Then again he did spend an awful lot of time staring down at Solas' head.   May be he caught Solas doodling his idea of how he'd like the world to look.

 

I don't think they are going to bring back the Inquisitor, except in a cameo role.   They might just have them talking to Dorian via our mobile phone, so they won't even have to worry about letting you customise them, or simply implied in the background.    Dorian is the one who I'm sure will still play a major role, not as a companion but perhaps as some sort of mentor of the PC.     It is very heavily implied the story is going to move to Tevinter now and it is hard to imagine anyone else who better fits the role of "leader of the good guys".      Wouldn't be at all surprise if some sort of slave rebellion is involved or that the PC is an ex-slave.

 

I noticed that in his letter to his Amatus he refers to the servants pinching his last letter to Dorian and reading it out to the kitchen staff.    I noticed he used the terms servant and staff but couldn't recall if he always refers to the slaves as servants (like when recounting that boating trip in his youth) or if this is an indication that all those working for Dorian now are definitely free.   I know he used to say he didn't keep slaves himself but then he had been a homeless wanderer for a couple of years so wouldn't have needed them or been able to afford them.   I liked the fact that his servants clearly aren't afraid of angering Dorian and seem to take a rather avid interest in his amorous antics.   It must be fun working for Dorian.