22176 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

Dorian has remarkable foresight; do you suppose he can actually predict the future?   No longer travels in time physically, just in his mind?    Those lines you quote from the party do seem very pertinent now.     Then again he did spend an awful lot of time staring down at Solas' head.   May be he caught Solas doodling his idea of how he'd like the world to look.

I... honestly can't tell if you're joking with this one.

 

Dorian is the one who I'm sure will still play a major role, not as a companion but perhaps as some sort of mentor of the PC.     It is very heavily implied the story is going to move to Tevinter now and it is hard to imagine anyone else who better fits the role of "leader of the good guys".      Wouldn't be at all surprise if some sort of slave rebellion is involved or that the PC is an ex-slave.

I'd really like to finally have Maevaris in a game; she sounds like a blast. And since she and Dorian are working together on this, it seems doubtful that we wouldn't get to also see him as well.

The slave angle is interesting, and perhaps it's finally time to have a human origin that isn't nobility. Although... I gotta say... there is also great potential is being an altus who sees how things are, as Dorian does, but that is limited to humans only and I think such a disparity would be unfair. But hey, it's Tevinter, "disparity" is the name of the game there.

 

I liked the fact that his servants clearly aren't afraid of angering Dorian and seem to take a rather avid interest in his amorous antics.   It must be fun working for Dorian.

Well he did say that his family treated them well. True he could have been viewing it through the lens of an altus, and "well" can be relative, but I never really imagined that Dorian would be any other way with slaves or non-slave servants. It's Dorian.

 

With regard to whether he would have slaves at all, rather than servants, it's hard to say. Slavery is a way of life there, but it's difficult to know how much of a mark of status it is. It could also be a mark of status to say, "I am so f-ing rich that I can afford to have dozens of paid servants." Also, I think his view on the matter is changed by his time in the South, so I don't know if he would be comfortable with it again, or would be accepting because he's going to "treat them well" as before.

 

It's also difficult to know what he's willing to do to keep up appearances and how far he's willing to take his rebellious nature in furtherance of his cause. Sometimes changes comes on slowly, and you have to go along to get along in order to get cooperation from those who can actually enact change. In other words, you need to work within the system, rather than try to blow it up from outside. He's a magister now, as part of the system as anyone else, and that demands certain behavior.

[Dr. Doctor]

So...
DAO - world-ending calamity
DA2 - single-city, personal story that has ramifications for the rest of Thedas
DAI - world-ending calamity
DA4 - personal story?
DA5 - world-ending calamity?
 
Also... I'm... really not into the elves at all. I just have no interest in them, I don't care. Of the non-human groups I find the dwarves much more compelling and I'd really like to see some more of that content. Sadly I suppose that Dragon Age will be concerned with the elves and their plight for the foreseeable future. *Sigh.*
 
That said, if we go to Tevinter and there is a slave uprising that would be quite compelling.

Given that Solas mentioned that stopping the Qunari "bought you a few years of peace" so his plan might take a while to advance.

Possible slave uprising and/or Calpernia returning could be interesting. Plus all of the things in the South like the Dwarven Merchant's Guild functions differently in Tevinter. Plus, we need to meet Mae.

[Reg_Mondt]

With regard to whether he would have slaves at all, rather than servants, it's hard to say. Slavery is a way of life there, but it's difficult to know how much of a mark of status it is. It could also be a mark of status to say, "I am so f-ing rich that I can afford to have dozens of paid servants." Also, I think his view on the matter is changed by his time in the South, so I don't know if he would be comfortable with it again, or would be accepting because he's going to "treat them well" as before.

 

It's also difficult to know what he's willing to do to keep up appearances and how far he's willing to take his rebellious nature in furtherance of his cause. Sometimes changes comes on slowly, and you have to go along to get along in order to get cooperation from those who can actually enact change. In other words, you need to work within the system, rather than try to blow it up from outside. He's a magister now, as part of the system as anyone else, and that demands certain behavior.

 

Hm, interesting. So you think it's possible he would keep slaves rather than free them and offer to hire them as servants? My Trevelyan (who's Dorian's best friend) would probably understand but my Lavellan maaay possibly have a slight problem with the idea of his lover keeping elven slaves. 

 

But it's an interesting conundrum. I think it's very possible that even the most progressive magisters, who agree that getting rid of blood magic and corruption is a good thing, would draw the line at abolishing slavery. I don't know. I hope at least some of this will be mentioned in DA4.

[nightscrawl]

Not all slaves are elven. I do know that there are some rabidly pro-elf players of the franchise that really wouldn't care about human slaves -- not saying this applies to you, I don't know either way -- if there are elven ones, but IMO a slave is a slave.

 

Based on Dorian's remarks in the game, I don't think we can determine what he would do in that situation. All we know is that being in the South has changed his thinking, but that's it, not how it would affect his behavior once back in Tevinter and living there as a part of society. And in general we also don't know the ratio of paid servants to slaves in most households, even altus ones. It might not be unusual for him to have paid servants instead of slaves.

 

Individual households are not the same as large-scale government or business concerns. The Imperium may collapse as a whole without slaves -- according to Fenris -- but that doesn't necessarily mean individual houses would.

 

Regarding the wording of the letter specifically, I don't think Dorian would be so gauche to refer to his slaves AS slaves in an instance like that. They would be slaves that are acting as household servants, as opposed to slaves that are working on a farm, in a factory, in a quarry, or in a brothel. So referring to them as "servants," even if they are slaves, isn't necessarily incorrect, and I don't think from that word usage alone that we can determine what the situation is.

 

Dorian might in fact feel that his treatment of them is the primary issue and that the only thing separating "servant" from "slave" would be a piece of paper. The person would be working in his house, treated a certain way, regardless. I think both Krem and Dorian's remarks about this issue, as well as codex entries found in DAI, show that slavery in Tevinter is far more nuanced than many players present it as, which is certainly more than, "slavery is bad."

 

All of this goes into Dorian's potential current thinking, and also current behavior. He may also have inherited slaves from his father, or his father may have had certain provisions in his will regarding slaves, or there may be certain laws in Tevinter regarding the transfer of slaves upon an owner's death. Or it could be that they are not legally allowed to be given freedom, or if a person willed a bunch of slaves does not want them for whatever reason their ownership reverts to the State and they become as Krem's father, one of the servus publicus (not sure if I spelled that correctly). In the case of the last example, Dorian may feel that the slaves are better off with him than being given to the State to do with whatever they want.

 

 

tl;dr: we just don't have enough information.

 

[edit]

Apologies for writing a tome.

[Reznore57]

Dorian would be able to free his slaves , they would get into the Liberati class.

It's what happened to Fenris's sister and mother , and if you believe his sister , it sucked big time ...and she was working for Denarius.

Although I assume Denarius just signed the papers and threw them out his home without second thoughts.

 

Liberati mages can work in a Circle (I assume doing menial task because Circle are expensive school ) or be an apprentice to learn a craft...(Fenris sister was a tailor after being freed but again it sucked )I'm not sure Liberati have access to servants job.Who knows?

[nightscrawl]

In case anyone wanted a reference for this, I transcribed the party dialogue with all options. This is for a Dorian romance who IS staying. Enjoy. Link.

 

There are two compelling options in that scene for me, both of which are equally great:

 

1. -Heart- [I’m glad you’re here.] I’m happy you’re here, after all that’s happened.
I fully expected to die. It would have been thematically appropriate. And you! You could have been a martyr! Oh, the songs they would have composed.

 

There will still be songs.

 

Yes, but they won’t have the same gravitas. We’ll just have to be satisfied with being alive. And together. I’ve decided to stay with the Inquisition. For now.

 

3. [Thank you for your help.] I appreciate everything you’ve done for us.
This from the man with whom I spend my nights. Such elaborate praise.

 

You know what I mean.

 

I do. I’m just glad I managed to survive. Rather unexpected, all things considered. I’ve decided to stay with the Inquisition. For now.

 

 

 

For some reason the, "This from the man with whom I spend my nights," line really strikes me as more of a live-in remark. I mean, they're not going to have sex every night, but they do sleep together, which I like the idea of; it goes well with my head-canon. On the other hand, "We’ll just have to be satisfied with being alive. And together," is really great, and I just love his tone.

 

*Swoon.* So difficult to decide. I suppose it's one of those situations where I'll allow myself to listen to the different options with reloads and then pick the most RP appropriate one, which is actually 1 for me, as 3 sounds too impersonal (which is why Dorian comments as he does, I assume).

[Reg_Mondt]

Not all slaves are elven. I do know that there are some rabidly pro-elf players of the franchise that really wouldn't care about human slaves -- not saying this applies to you, I don't know either way -- if there are elven ones, but IMO a slave is a slave.

 

No, I agree. Slaves are slaves, whether human, elven or otherwise.

 

I just checked the DA wiki and found this:

 

Slavery in Tevinter was briefly abolished, an act that had the potential to cause untold damage to the Imperial economy. The ruling Archon who had ordered the abolition was quickly assassinated, and slavery reintroduced.

 

I didn't actually know this. So while I do think it's possible that single households can survive without slaves, it seems like it's impossible to abolish slavery entirely without rebuilding the entire country from the ground up instead of just reforming it.

 

And thank you for transcribing the party dialogue, nightscrawl! I always go for the heart option so I'd never actually heard the other ones. I really like the "man with whom I spend my nights" line because it does point towards a live-in situation, which makes me happy.

[Gervaise]

Actually I was joking; I think that is why I so often upset people, because they don't realise I'm not being serious.     

 

It wasn't so much the term servant but the use of "kitchen staff".    I could be wrong about this but for me that implies paid employment rather than using the term "kitchen servants".   In Masked Empire everyone is just called a servant and they are paid.    It could be Dorian hinting to his Amatus that he has taken his criticisms to heart about slavery but you're probably right and I am reading too much into it.    In fact they may not be his servants at all but he was staying at Maevaris' house.   If he was only gone a month then he wouldn't have had much time to set himself up, particularly if he hadn't been planning on going straight back, which he claimed he only decided to do after the news about his father.  

 

When writing to the Inquisitor as a friend, he has been gone much longer, so probably would have his own domestic set up but of course doesn't refer to them at all.

[Arlee]

Actually I was joking; I think that is why I so often upset people, because they don't realise I'm not being serious.     

 

It wasn't so much the term servant but the use of "kitchen staff".    I could be wrong about this but for me that implies paid employment rather than using the term "kitchen servants".   In Masked Empire everyone is just called a servant and they are paid.    It could be Dorian hinting to his Amatus that he has taken his criticisms to heart about slavery but you're probably right and I am reading too much into it.    In fact they may not be his servants at all but he was staying at Maevaris' house.   If he was only gone a month then he wouldn't have had much time to set himself up, particularly if he hadn't been planning on going straight back, which he claimed he only decided to do after the news about his father.  

 

When writing to the Inquisitor as a friend, he has been gone much longer, so probably would have his own domestic set up but of course doesn't refer to them at all.

 

Honestly though, if Dorian were to free his slaves I don't think he'd be the type to free them and then summarily toss them out on their asses, which depending on circumstances could be its own kind of cruelty. I could definitely see a situation where he freed them and then offered them employment. It certainly would be a great way to ensure their loyalty at the very least. Of course that's assuming he could afford to do that, idk exactly well of he is. I mean, aside from being part of the magistirium do we know anything about what his family does?

[Gervaise]

His family is I think very well off.   His parents are both described in WoT2 as coming from wealthy and influential families.   They have a large estate near Qarinus and probably also a house in Minrathous for when his father used to attend the Magisterium.    Mind you, if the Qunari start to attack Tevinter mainland again then their likely first port of call would be Qarinus, as it has been in the past, so who knows how that might affect the family's wealth or how much Dorian would be drawn on to the front line to defend his home as well as his homeland.   

 

Without a doubt, if Dorian did free his family's slaves, it would be to re-employ them as paid staff if that is what they wanted.   I dare say being a slave in the Pavus household never was too bad.   The slaves that really suffer are the ones that are owned by blood mages and get used regularly in magical experimentation.    That wouldn't have been the case in Halward's property, unless of course he had gone through with that ritual to alter Dorian's mind, which I'm pretty sure would have required a large amount of blood.   May be that's why Halward didn't go through with it in the end or may be it was one of the slaves that tipped Dorian off.     From the tone of Dorian's letter it sounds to me like his servants like Dorian very much, slaves or not.  I'd like to think they would be loyal to him, even the elven ones, no matter what other parties offered them.   

[nightscrawl]

His descriptions in Trespasser of being his father's heir are rather vague. Did that refer to the magister title only, or the Pavus family holdings?

 

If it's the former, well I imagine he still has money from his Inquisition stipend. (I rationalize this since they paid Dagna "Like, wow, so much," and Harding's reference to "hazard pay," so I figure that the Inquisitor's front-line team would get similar treatment.) But after that? I don't know if the title alone confers any sort of salary or not. For example, in some cities, members of the city council get a modest salary for serving the community -- modest because it's typically not a full-time position and they might still have their business or whatever.)

 

If it's the latter, well then he never has to worry about money again. BUT, then he has the additional burden that maintaining that sort of property entails. Yes, you can delegate, but it's still something you have to be concerned with.

[Reznore57]

His descriptions in Trespasser of being his father's heir are rather vague. Did that refer to the magister title only, or the Pavus family holdings?

 

If it's the former, well I imagine he still has money from his Inquisition stipend. (I rationalize this since they paid Dagna "Like, wow, so much," and Harding's reference to "hazard pay," so I figure that the Inquisitor's front-line team would get similar treatment.) But after that? I don't know if the title alone confers any sort of salary or not. For example, in some cities, members of the city council get a modest salary for serving the community -- modest because it's typically not a full-time position and they might still have their business or whatever.)

 

If it's the latter, well then he never has to worry about money again. BUT, then he has the additional burden that maintaining that sort of property entails. Yes, you can delegate, but it's still something you have to be concerned with.

 

I assume he's also the heir of his father's fortune.I doubt there is any poor magister around .

Don't know if he gets everything ...estate etc...because his mother is still alive afterall.

[Joe25]

If Dorian and my Quiz had a kid.

Spoiler

[Gervaise]

I took it to mean that Dorian was heir to everything.   Obviously we don't know exactly what the laws of inheritance are in Tevinter but Halward would hardly leave Dorian his seat in the Magisterium and then not leave him sufficient funds to maintain his position.    His mother probably had her own independent fortune anyway and I'm sure Dorian wouldn't turn her out even if the property was now his.   In fact may be she'd be a bit happier if not constantly having to live with someone she loathed.   However, poor her mothering skills, I dare say she is still fond of her son and likely proud to have him assume his position in the Magisterium.    Alternatively, may be she would just return to her own family and leave him to it. 

 

The problem, as I point out above, is if the Qarinus estate comes under attack, since the majority of the wealth probably derives from that.    Still both Maevaris and Varric in the south can probably advise him on sound investments to spread his wealth, so that he will never be entirely without funds.   If Maevaris' story is anything to go by, you need coin in abundance if you want to exact revenge on your enemies, probably paying some of those deadly Tevinter assassins Dorian told us about, or at least paying for intelligence about the people he seeks, so if he's going after people that may well also need plenty of funds available.

[nightscrawl]

Something I've realized recently while playing through In Hushed Whispers: Dorian explains the time travel thing no less than five times -- one for each party member, Fiona, and Leliana -- and in none of those instances does he ever show annoyance or impatience at having to repeat himself.

 

I can attribute part of that to his nerdiness and enjoyment of talking about magic, but the rest is just his personality, I think.

 

He's just swell.

[Gervaise]

If I wanted to be wicked, I would say that is because Dorian likes showing how clever he is but I'm sure that isn't the case.      I don't think the majority of people in the south appreciate just how powerful and knowledgeable a mage he really is.   Alexius recognised his potential and then nurtured it.   It is probably true to say there is no telling what they might have achieved together had the tragedy not befallen Livia and Felix.     The writers do tend to like their instances of irony.   Dorian was called the Redeemer and we think that means just Tevinter but it wouldn't be a total surprise if it turned out to be more than that.    It would be an amazing irony considering we started out with Tevinter being the bad guys who are universally seen as the nation responsible for foisting the Blight on the World, if a Tevinter magister was ultimately the one responsible for coming up with a way of saving it, even if that was only when digging around in the archives he found something significant.   After all you'd have to have the knowledge to recognise the worth of something that to other people, even mages, might not see the potential in.   Dorian could always talk to Solas as an equal in understanding and I find that significant in itself.  

 

I was reflecting how betrayed my Enavir is feeling right now, not by Solas who he was always rather suspicious of, or the human rulers because he always expected they would turn on him in the end, but the elves in whose name he claimed the title of Inquisitor in the first place.    Apparently they all ran off  to join his enemy and so it means that he will be struggling not only to save their world but have them actively working against him.   Dorian of course totally understands how he feels because he is in an identical situation with Tevinter: "Welcome to my world, Amatus".

[nightscrawl]

Eh he doesn't really have that tone, though, and you know he can put on the condescension so well when he wants to. In all the instances, save the one with Leliana, he knows people are freaking out and takes the time to explain.

 

Regarding his power and training, it's unfortunate that this is one of those examples where story conflicts with game stuff. All three of the mages in our party are quite powerful in their own way, but we're limited by the mage skills the devs have supplied us with. And no, I don't really feel that the specs make up for that, since the mage Inquisitor has access to those as well. So in the end we're left with having three mages that feel basically the same.

 

His intelligence is one of the attractions for my Inquisitor and I play that up in my fics, but it is a shame we can't get a bit more of that RP-wise in the game.

[Gervaise]

Well that is game mechanics for you.    Solas of course knows way more than he lets on but that is part of his cover story so it fits with the game mechanics.   Vivienne, whilst very powerful, has had her potential limited by the prejudices of the south.     Dorian is the only one where the mechanics don't really fit with his background.   Still the very fact he knew what to do to stop Alexius' initial spell and then use the amulet later does at least offer some demonstration of the degree to which his learning has far outstripped that of Vivienne, even if only in a very specialised field.    Which is why the exchanges with Solas in particular are so revealing about them both.   I remember the first time they were discussing magical theory in front of my mage Inquisitor and I was thinking how much of backwoods hedge mage that made her feel.  (Well she is Dalish).   She of course looked to Solas to improve her knowledge and we know how that worked out.    However, my other male elf mage best friend, was initially attracted to Dorian because of his superior knowledge about magical theory and practise.   He would have loved to have travelled to Tevinter to improve his knowledge from direct interaction and through sifting through the archives there but sadly that is no to be.   I like to think that with him, he contacts Dorian not so much to hear the reassuring sound of his voice but to discuss his latest magical theory with him.

[90s Kai]

Hello Dorian thread!

I was wondering if I could get some advice. I'm about to romance our resident Tevinter and I was wondering which race, class etc would be the best. Because he deserves nothing less!

Please and thank you!

[nightscrawl]

I really dislike answering questions like that -- and don't think anyone else should either -- because it's really a personal preference.

 

I have reasons for preferring my choice, a Trevelyan warrior (or just non-mage): I tend to feel that this is the closest to a peer for Dorian, particularly as the Trev mage has spent half his life in the Circle, with all the restrictions that entails. True, you CAN head-canon that your Trev's Circle experience was moderate, but it's still not the same type of freedom as not being in one.

 

I don't think there is a "best" choice. I think you should pick the race/class combo that you prefer, feel comfortable with, and have a fun RP idea for (or angsty, or whatever), just go with it and have fun.

 

It took quite a while, and a lot of writing and thinking, for me to really figure out my guy's personality, how he acts around Dorian, what he thinks about him and the factors that led to the attraction, the type of relationship they have, and so forth. And now that I have that all in my head I'm quite satisfied with all aspects of the romance and how I play them out in the game.

[Arlee]

Hello Dorian thread!

I was wondering if I could get some advice. I'm about to romance our resident Tevinter and I was wondering which race, class etc would be the best. Because he deserves nothing less!

Please and thank you!

 

In general I don't think it matters which race too much, things work well with any race and each have some slightly unique options in dialogue. When I did my human pt with him the only issue for me was in some scenes they seemed to change height (sometimes Dorian was taller sometimes my IQ was) which annoyed me. Doing the romance as an elf seemed to solve this issue. As far as a dwarf or qunari I know some of the cutscenes in the main game get a bit wonky with the camera positioning, but I don't know if any of the Dorian scenes are affected like that, I'd assume they would be though.

[nightscrawl]

^ Lol I forgot about the camera issues... As happy as I am to play the game for just this romance alone, there are scores of hours worth of content, and that should also factor into the choice.

 

As a human I only noticed it in two specific cutscenes: the "surprise" first kiss (but not in the standard one), and in the final balcony scene. All other interaction looked normal to me.

 

[edit]

Spoiler

You know, I'm really on the fence when it comes to new Dorian-mancers and whether to inform them about the alternate paths. On the one hand it's fun to learn everything on your own, but on the other hand there is that factor of, "Aw, I wish I had known about that before." And of course one doesn't know how much the new person already knows from previous plays, or general internet spoilage.

[Arlee]

As a human I only noticed it in two specific cutscenes: the "surprise" first kiss (but not in the standard one), and in the final balcony scene. All other interaction looked normal to me.

 

[edit]

Spoiler

You know, I'm really on the fence when it comes to new Dorian-mancers and whether to inform them about the alternate paths. On the one hand it's fun to learn everything on your own, but on the other hand there is that factor of, "Aw, I wish I had known about that before." And of course one doesn't know how much the new person already knows from previous plays, or general internet spoilage.

 

There was also a bit of height disparity during the bedroom scene while they are standing. It's less obvious there, but it was noticeable to me because I tend to be a bit hyper observant when it comes to those things >< It's just something which completely pulls me out of the game and makes me sad The two you mention are the worse cases of it. I can't even get through a pt with a dwarf or quenari because there's too many scenes where things are weird

 

Spoiler

Honestly, I would never have known about the alternate romance path with Dorian if it wasn't for you folks here. Also I wouldn't have known about the alternate dialogue if you get his amulet without talking to him about it first. Just never would have occurred to me that it would be possible because most games don't allow for that much freedom. Which is sad because those two alternates are by far my favorites. Discovering on your own is always good, but it's also nice to find out there are alternatives as well.

[Hazegurl]

Hello Dorian thread!

I was wondering if I could get some advice. I'm about to romance our resident Tevinter and I was wondering which race, class etc would be the best. Because he deserves nothing less!

Please and thank you!

Just my personal opinion, but I find that the camera angles are meant for Human/Elf/Dorian.  Everyone else sort of go through major immersion breaking growth/shrinkage spurts just to make the scenes work.  If immersion is a big deal for you and you can't handle watching your Qunari shrink or your dwarf grow then go with human.  Elf works too, but male elves look like their arms are broken. Mind you, these are my own personal pet peeves.

 

As for class, I think that depends on you. I always romance Dorian as a mage and I love it but I didn't pick a mage because I think Dorian is better with a mage but because I think it makes sense for a mage to have the anchor.  But I do like the added risk of dating Dorian as a mage.  Meaning that being known as the Herald of Andraste is already shaky enough for a mage.  It sorta gave the whole "He's influencing you" fears by mother Giselle some weight since Tevinter mages being bad influences on Southern Mages seems to be an in lore fear.

[nightscrawl]

It sorta gave the whole "He's influencing you" fears by mother Giselle some weight since Tevinter mages being bad influences on Southern Mages seems to be an in lore fear.

OH I like this!