22176 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

That's an interesting point.

I think the issue is that some players -- myself included -- want to feel that their romance with Dorian, or any other character, is unique for that NPC and that they will come out of it affected differently than they would if they were with someone else. I say that as someone whose Inquisitor is different from Bull in every possible way other than being a non-mage penis-haver, and I would like to think that Dorian approaches either man, and his relationship with them, in a different way. I struggled with that aspect of it for quite a while and am finally now in a decent place mentally, but it did take a long time and some in-depth conversing.

 

This sums up my feelings about it. I get the potential plot aspects but I would have liked something that stands out between Dorian and the IQ.  Not the same thing copied and pasted but with one extra thing added and certainly not the same possible outcome as the Bull romance, namely because, as you've pointed out, your IQ is different from Bull in every way.  Mine is too. I would imagine that the relationship between IQ/Dorian would be different due to romancing different people.  But oh well, I gotta remember that these are all alternate universes and neither friend IQ nor Bull/Dorian exists in my world..... better now.

 

I always feel bad for Dorian after meeting him in Redcliffe and picking the Templars but not enough to make selecting the Mages canon.  From my IQ's POV. The entire Redcliffe situation is shady and in need of more support than a small group of people can handle.  You've got a Magister running around, Mages cloistered in one place, tranquil being killed, crazy time magic going on, and the only allies are two Tevinter Mages he knows nothing about....hmmm yeah screw that I'm coming back to Redcliffe with some Templars. 

 

And Barris is a much better person to have around Skyhold than Fiona.

 

I also like those 'dislike evolving to love' type of romances too so I kinda like that Dorian is initially ticked off with my IQ.  I once kept him ticked off all the way to Skyhold and even got the whole rant about whether or not I want him to leave after I ask him why he was even there. lol!

[nightscrawl]

Ever since DA2 I've been conflicted about the whole friend/rival/approval thing. DAO's method of gift spamming was atrocious and not worth mentioning.

 

I really liked their concept with friend/rival in DA2, but unfortunately many players had mental issues with "red is bad" and disliked seeing negative points. This is Bioware's own fault for having such poor documentation about the feature in the first place. But I did really like that you could have a different type of relationship with the person. That said, as far as romances go I never felt that the rival system worked for the DA2 romance simply because that game took place over seven years, and that it would have been much better over a shorter time frame like DAO or DAI where you could have a whirlwind love/hate/kiss/kill kinda thing and have it make more sense.

 

Generally speaking, approval and disapproval, or friendship and rivalry, is a game gimmick, and it only matters what the devs do with it. I continue to think that there should be more crisis points especially where the romances are concerned. The person should end the relationship if you've done something that they consider a betrayal or goes against their fundamental beliefs. IMO that is completely normal, and sometimes such a thing is not recoverable.

[GoldenGail3]

If you don't mind angst, I do highly recommend that you play out the Dorian romance. I think there will be a nice balance between the utter sap of Cullen, the heartbreak of Solas, and the romance novel thing with Cassandra. Dorian as a person has a lot to give, but he takes work and it is SO worth it in the end.

Spoiler

And... You also have the option to turn down sex while still continuing the romance, which is great for various RP reasons and however you want to play it. Plus, his reaction to each is different and each is significant because of his history. There is no "best" option for that scene.

And damn if that kiss-on-demand scene doesn't make me melt into goo every single time.

Yeah... Just... I'm gonna to YouTube to look up someone whom knows how to make a decent male character. And I attempted a Dorian romance with a male Mage Lavellen... But Origins trolled me real bad so i had nothing. Crap Origins... Dealing my people without me doing anything. (Rages about how horrible Origins is for a moment). Yeah, I did a Cass romance first becuase i was going on strike against Origins and I was inspired to becuase it deleted all of my characters data...

[HurraFTP]

Thanks Nightscrawl, I never thought about the constellations, good idea!

I'm currently replaying my canon qunari inquisitor who is a DW rogue. I usually enchant one his dagger with Walking Bomb and imagine it's a gift from Dorian for his talisman.
I have to find a nice name for this one.

On my last PT, I was uninspired and went with something like " Warm Battlemage Armor" for Dorian.
Fun fact:  Dorian has not made a single remark about the weather in this pt... (maybe, as I'm playing on nightmare with most of the trials on this time, I should name my dagger "I'm invincible" or something )
 

[Fredward]

Yeah... Just... I'm gonna to YouTube to look up someone whom knows how to make a decent male character. And I attempted a Dorian romance with a male Mage Lavellen... But Origins trolled me real bad so i had nothing. Crap Origins... Dealing my people without me doing anything. (Rages about how horrible Origins is for a moment). Yeah, I did a Cass romance first becuase i was going on strike against Origins and I was inspired to becuase it deleted all of my characters data...

 

You could also hit up the Reddit forum.

 

 

 

I miss the friendship/rivalry mechanic. Like. A lot. I could never agree with Aveline, she was too straightlaced and lawful and ****. So I rivalled her and while she tackled me once there was an undeniable bond of not exactly friendship but mutual respect and understanding. I can't really do that in DAI, if I disagree with my companions they tend to hate me/wind up with objectively worse ideas about me/don't provide quests or dialogue and that bothers me so I placate them instead. Rivalry felt different but equal, the current system is good/bad and no in-between.

 

Plus rivalmancing Fenris was hot.

[nightscrawl]

^ I did a rivalmance of Fenris once and disliked how he was so damn angry all the time. As understandable as it was it just seemed so excessive, especially since I had already done the friendmance. I think they should have played it more off as "I hate that I've fallen in love with a mage/mage sympathizer." I've never felt, as some players, that Fenris "hates all mages," but he certainly has no personal reasons to trust them until they've proven they can be trusted. IMO a friend does this, but a rival does not, and the blood magic spec should also come more into play (with Anders too).
 
Erm... sorry for the Fenris digression o_O.
 
 
Here's Mr. Hotness to make up for it... "Well, I'm glad that's over with. ... Or not."

Spoiler

[GoldenGail3]

You could also hit up the Reddit forum.



I miss the friendship/rivalry mechanic. Like. A lot. I could never agree with Aveline, she was too straightlaced and lawful and ****. So I rivalled her and while she tackled me once there was an undeniable bond of not exactly friendship but mutual respect and understanding. I can't really do that in DAI, if I disagree with my companions they tend to hate me/wind up with objectively worse ideas about me/don't provide quests or dialogue and that bothers me so I placate them instead. Rivalry felt different but equal, the current system is good/bad and no in-between.



Plus rivalmancing Fenris was hot.

I did a Rivlamanced Fenris, he's amazing as a rival. My Mage Hawke promptly sided with the mages, while killing Anders. But Isabela is the best (when rivalmanced, I'm very bias here, because my guy Hawke fell her)

[Hazegurl]

You could also hit up the Reddit forum.

 

I miss the friendship/rivalry mechanic. Like. A lot. I could never agree with Aveline, she was too straightlaced and lawful and ****. So I rivalled her and while she tackled me once there was an undeniable bond of not exactly friendship but mutual respect and understanding. I can't really do that in DAI, if I disagree with my companions they tend to hate me/wind up with objectively worse ideas about me/don't provide quests or dialogue and that bothers me so I placate them instead. Rivalry felt different but equal, the current system is good/bad and no in-between.

 

Plus rivalmancing Fenris was hot.

I agree, I really enjoyed the friend/rivalry system in DA2. It wasn't perfect but it was a good start that I wish BW had worked on more.  The characters felt a bit more real and the bond tighter, it allowed more flexibility in dealing with the companions. But yeah I agree with Nightscrawl about those time skips. They really threw things off.

 

I also love rivalmancing Fenris.

 

I think they should have played it more off as "I hate that I've fallen in love with a mage/mage sympathizer." I've never felt, as some players, that Fenris "hates all mages," but he certainly has no personal reasons to trust them until they've proven they can be trusted. IMO a friend does this, but a rival does not, and the blood magic spec should also come more into play (with Anders too).
 

That's actually the vibe I got from the rivalmance. That Fenris had fallen for Hawke despite their contrasting views or Hawke being a mage.  I do hate that he seemed more ticked off  and self destructive by the minute, but there were moments of softness in him during the rivalmance as well. Fenris grows to respect Hawke and still considers him a cut above most mages, if I remember correctly.

 

I do agree that the Blood Magic spec should have played more of a part in the storyline.  Becoming a blood mage should have ended the Fenris romance.

[Fredward]

I was saying that Origns DELETED my Inqusiton saves. So I went mad. I was so inspired by my anger I recreated my Cass romance. That's basically it...

 

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post. You said something about needing to make an attractive male character earlier and I suggested the reddit slider forum.

 

^ I did a rivalmance of Fenris once and disliked how he was so damn angry all the time. As understandable as it was it just seemed so excessive, especially since I had already done the friendmance. I think they should have played it more off as "I hate that I've fallen in love with a mage/mage sympathizer." I've never felt, as some players, that Fenris "hates all mages," but he certainly has no personal reasons to trust them until they've proven they can be trusted. IMO a friend does this, but a rival does not, and the blood magic spec should also come more into play (with Anders too).
 
Erm... sorry for the Fenris digression o_O.

 

I could never actually finish a Fenrismance cuz of that anger. Also because I usually play mages. I just went in for the brood and stuck around for the angry sex and then left with Anders. Tortured > inchoate anger.

[GoldenGail3]

[quote name="Fredward" post="19755295" timestamp="1443525907"]Sorry, I quoted the wrong post. You said something about needing to make an attractive male character earlier and I suggested the reddit slider forum.
  > inchoate

I'm sorry, I often do that. I'm sick and with ADHD (and taking medicine) so I'm a bit loopy right now... And tired.

[Arlee]

I would like to see the friendship/rival thing come back in some form, but I was always very conflicted about the whole rivalmance thing because, yea there was a lot of hotness to it, but there was also a lot that made me feel like there was a lot of bad there. Not that I think all relationships in these games should be 100% healthy and good, I kind of like there are bad choices. It just creates a lot of inner conflict for me, but that's also sort of a halmark of Bioware games for me.

 

Anywho, I think I had a point when I started this post but I've quite forgotten it >< On a completely unrelated note pre-purchasing things from the BioWare Store is really frustrating because things are always delayed

[nightscrawl]

^ I just want the Dorian print to come back in stock... But I did order the Inquisitor jacket from there that I'm looking forward to wearing everywhere this coming winter. It's totally gorgeous, really well-made, and looks just like the promo armor.

 

Spoiler

 

About f/r again, the non-romance rival Anders is my favorite way to play. I thought it fit so well with the story and I liked the idea that he was just completely consumed over time. My Warden, who considered him a friend, would have been devastated by the whole development, particularly as she might have felt some guilt over his Warden experience (that we see in the short story) that he had when she left.

[devSin]

What makes that option infuriating? My romanced Quisie picked it. He even sounded kinda pouty and hurt.

Because there's plenty left to say and absolutely no way to say any of it.

I wouldn't have been as bothered by it if there were actually a choice to say something heartfelt in that situation.
 

For RP reasons I wished him luck, but I did pick the pissed off remark asking whether he was ever going to tell me, which I quite liked because it was quite upsetting to find out in that manner. Even though it's an important conversation, and I appreciate devSin's issues with it, I don't see the variety of options different from any other conversation in the entire rest of the game.

I disagree with this. Most conversations don't really affect the romance, but I'd argue that this sequence is fairly integral to it (this is the person you love telling you he's leaving alone after all, and maybe you'll see each other again someday).

There are unique conversations for the romance in the game, and I think one of the final conversations you're going to have with Dorian should allow the player to respond to him a bit more appropriately (as befits both the weight of the relationship and what he's saying). Being forced to rehash the argument from the main game (you can either say "you don't have to go" or "good luck", which is basically the exact same conversation you have with him after the Temple of Mythal) just didn't work for me (and feels a bit dismissive of Dorian, in the case that you yet again assert that he doesn't have to go anywhere), especially if we're supposed to imagine that the relationship has only deepened over time (and since he's telling you this time, not asking).

To be clear, I'm fine with the structure of the dialogue being the same (and I don't at all dispute that it probably works really well as-is for some people), but I didn't find the responses satisfactory, and I don't necessarily believe it's quite the same thing as Dorian's "after-action" reports from the major plots in the game (though I'm not as firm there; it's just that none of those conversations ever forced me into an option that I wouldn't consider valid for the romance the way this one did, and though those conversations do help build Dorian's character, they don't ever change the state of the romance itself).

[Arlee]

^ I just want the Dorian print to come back in stock... But I did order the Inquisitor jacket from there that I'm looking forward to wearing everywhere this coming winter. It's totally gorgeous, really well-made, and looks just like the promo armor.

 

Spoiler

 

Oh I thought about getting that one too but I decided against it and got the Morrigan Hoodie instead, because it's not possible for me to have too many hoodies I just get frustrated because since they do a lot of the things in batch orders they don't make them until they have enough orders to justify it and if you are an early buyer it often means you have to wait awhile and dates get pushed back often

 

Currently waiting on this http://www.biowarest...nity-scarf.html

 

Just really want it before it gets cold

 

Because there's plenty left to say and absolutely no way to say any of it.

I wouldn't have been as bothered by it if there were actually a choice to say something heartfelt in that situation.
 
I disagree with this. Most conversations don't really affect the romance, but I'd argue that this sequence is fairly integral to it (this is the person you love telling you he's leaving alone after all, and maybe you'll see each other again someday).

There are unique conversations for the romance in the game, and I think one of the final conversations you're going to have with Dorian should allow the player to respond to him a bit more appropriately (as befits both the weight of the relationship and what he's saying). Being forced to rehash the argument from the main game (you can either say "you don't have to go" or "good luck", which is basically the exact same conversation you have with him after the Temple of Mythal) just didn't work for me (and feels a bit dismissive of Dorian, in the case that you yet again assert that he doesn't have to go anywhere), especially if we're supposed to imagine that the relationship has only deepened over time (and since he's telling you this time, not asking).

To be clear, I'm fine with the structure of the dialogue being the same (and I don't at all dispute that it probably works really well as-is for some people), but I didn't find the responses satisfactory, and I don't necessarily believe it's quite the same thing as Dorian's "after-action" reports from the major plots in the game (though I'm not as firm there; it's just that none of those conversations ever forced me into an option that I wouldn't consider valid for the romance the way this one did, and though those conversations do help build Dorian's character, they don't ever change the state of the romance itself).

 

Umm, but when you find out he's leaving again and you respond he again professes his love and kisses the IQ again. That's substantially different than the firend interaction, and I thought it was really sweet.

[Gervaise]

The big thing for me was that we finally both got to say the L word.   I was always a bit miffed that my other romances could say they loved each other but while it was implied, it was never said by Dorian.   So when you are feeling sad because he says he is going away, he gives you the crystal and then says "You are the man I love....." I was totally happy because he'd finally admitted it.     

 

To be honest, I don't care if PW said that Dorian also gives a crystal to Iron Bull in his Tweet because it is not actually in the game.   There is no mention of it at all.   Plus, as I say, he declares that the Inquisitor is his one true friend.   He still does that if he is in a relationship with IB, so I take it to mean that their relationship is more physical but less of an emotional connection than with a romanced Inquisitor or even in some ways his best friend.   He was telling my male mage how boring Minrathous seemed now without him there to share it.    Also the crystal link whether to romanced or best friend Inquisitor is said to be his inspiration that keeps him going.     I don't see him getting that sort of inspirational support from Iron Bull, so the crystal would be phone sex and I don't actually see Dorian trivialising it like that.

 

One of the things that annoys me about Iron Bull is always saying things that demean Dorian and embarrass him in front of others.   Take that business with the hay fever.   I actually think it was pretty silly anyway.  We've gone all this time without any reference to allergies and the only time it crops up is if a romanced Iron Bull is in the party.    You'd almost think he was allergic to him.    Then instead of saying "Would you like a hanky?" and when Dorian says "No" leaving it at that, Bull has to make a big issue of how he'll end up having to give him one anyway, like Dorian is a child and can't blow his nose without Iron Bull.    Whenever I've watched the videos of the dialogue concerning their relationship (or simply read it), it strikes me that Bull is always trying to dominate Dorian  and if he's not being embarrassing, then he's putting him down in some way.   Bull tells the Inquisitor that he thinks Dorian is a sweet guy but to me that doesn't necessarily mean he respects him or is even letting Dorian really be himself.   (I think Dorian is a sweet guy but I don't think that is his defining trait or how I would want to describe him to anyone else)    I'm always left with the impression that Dorian isn't totally comfortable with it but is clinging on simply because it is more than he's ever had before and he doesn't know that he should expect and deserve more.

 

Now that all applies to Iron Bull whether still in the Qun or not.    However, if he is in the Qun then I find it even more manipulative and overbearing.    Take the conversation in the Winter Palace when Dorian says that Bull doesn't understand why he can't go with him to Tevinter (or something like that).   A Qunari spy would know perfectly well why Dorian can't have him around and how much it would compromise his safety in his homeland.    Not only that but pushing Dorian to let him tag along seems a definite ploy to allow him to do some spying out of the land.     Dorian's home estate is near Qarinus, the eastern most port of Tevinter and the one which has suffered the most Qunari raids over the years.    The reason is easy to understand since it stands closer to both Seheron and Par Vollen than the other Tevinter ports and therefore strategically important, particularly if they want to launch a major assault on mainland Tevinter, since they will need it to supply their forces.   Then we learn that the Qun have been planning an offensive in the south since the time of the Breach and when that fails they immediately launch an offensive on Tevinter.    So when Iron Bull originally made contact with the Inquisition, it was to study them but being the good spy he was, he wouldn't have missed the fact that here was an ideal opportunity to get close to Dorian too. 

 

I have to admit that I never really trusted Iron Bull and my first run I failed to even get his approval up enough to trigger his personal quest because he spent most of his time on the subs bench.     I'm not so selfish as to not want Dorian to have a relationship if he is not in one with my Inquisitor but I don't like the thought of him with Iron Bull because I think he can do better.   There is something about it that doesn't feel quite right to me, no matter how it is portrayed in the epilogue slides.   I seem to recall that even DG admitted it wasn't a totally healthy relationship.    He never ends up with IB in any of my play throughs but may be he goes back to Tevinter and looks up Rilenius (I think that is the spelling), because after all Cole tells him he would have said "Yes", and we never do discover quite what that means.   

[Arlee]

I seem to recall that even DG admitted it wasn't a totally healthy relationship. 

 

One thing on this, I don't think DG did ever say specifically the Bull/Dorian relationship wasn't totally healthy. If I am remembering correctly people were hounding him about how awful it was to have an obviously abusive relationship in game like that (seriously some of the people on twitter went cray cray with it) and he responded by saying something along the lines of why should any relationship in the game have to be healthy and positive. Which, can be taken as inferring the Bull/Dorian relationship isn't healthy, but I think he was focusing on what he saw as the larger issue there.

[Gervaise]

Oh my god, I've just put on the TV for New Tricks (UK) and there was Ramon Tikram but he doesn't sound like Dorian any more because good actor that he is, suddenly he is more common sounding.   Even so, I'm doing a double take wondering if it really is him, so I went and looked up the cast list and it absolutely is.    

[Hazegurl]

Wow, I had no idea Qun loyal Bull tries to get to Tevinter through Dorian.  Taking Bull to Tevinter would be the dumbest move Dorian could make whether he (Bull) was Qun loyal or not.  I doubt Qunari are just walking the streets and there is no way Bull could hide properly.  Dorian would essentially be shooting himself in the foot in multiple ways.   The devs can only stretch the whole "Ben Hessereth spy" bs with him so far before it becomes ridiculous. 

 

We've gone all this time without any reference to allergies and the only time it crops up is if a romanced Iron Bull is in the party.    You'd almost think he was allergic to him.

 

 

 

As for the crystal and Bull. You make a good point. If the crystal isn't mentioned for the Bull/Dorian romance then it can be a case of the devs wanting to make Bull/Dorian fans happy.  I don't see anything wrong with it....anymore,    Whatever floats their boat. 

 

And yeah I agree with pretty much everything you've written about that relationship Gervaise.  But then again I find Bull to be generally unpleasant to be around anyway so I admit to my bias.  He talks too much, brags too much, and on top of it all he isn't even that useful in combat.

[JohnstonMR]

Hey guys.  I've been gone a long time.  I have to admit I'm not even going to try to catch up on all I've missed.  But I'm back!  Y'know. 

 

Enjoying the newest DLC, but have taken a break from it for Destiny: The Taken King, as I never played Destiny before now and love it.  Anyway.  

[ModernAcademic]

Some fresh new Dorian artwork

(If it was already posted, my apologies, folks)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Credit where it's due

http://allantiee.dev...e-you-541586847

[Arlee]

Some fresh new Dorian artwork

(If it was already posted, my apologies, folks)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Credit where it's due

http://allantiee.dev...e-you-541586847

 

Oh! I definitely haven't seen that one before

[nightscrawl]

The big thing for me was that we finally both got to say the L word.   I was always a bit miffed that my other romances could say they loved each other but while it was implied, it was never said by Dorian.   So when you are feeling sad because he says he is going away, he gives you the crystal and then says "You are the man I love....." I was totally happy because he'd finally admitted it.

I think it is completely appropriate for Dorian in that instance. When I first started posting post-Trespasser I mentioned that Dorian now seems to have complete confidence in the relationship, and saying "love" is part of that. I do not think he would have said it during the main game, even off-camera. Alluded perhaps, made references, and so on, but not said the word until much later.

This is also where head-canon comes into play: you can have your Inquisitor say that you love him (or allude to it), and I think depending on his mood and whatever else is going on in that instance he would either respond humorously, respond emotionally, simply be accepting, or just not say anything. It all depends on your relationship with him. I also consider his use of "amatus" to be significant for him; more than just a simple endearment, he's allowing himself to express what he doesn't say normally. Also, Dorian is very much of a "show, not tell" sort of person when it comes to emotion. Words mean very little in the end, literally, with him saying the exact opposite on the balcony.

 

I don't see him getting that sort of inspirational support from Iron Bull, so the crystal would be phone sex and I don't actually see Dorian trivialising it like that.

While I certainly don't think that is the sole purpose of the crystal, I think you're rather deluding yourself if you think he wouldn't use it for that, or at least consider it at some point. Dorian likes sex and isn't afraid to show it (which I think is also partly defensive defiance on his part, due to his history). Do I think that it would be the first thing he and the Inquisitor do with it? Or even the tenth thing? No. But somewhere down the line, after months of separation, I think it could happen, yes.

 

One thing on this, I don't think DG did ever say specifically the Bull/Dorian relationship wasn't totally healthy. If I am remembering correctly people were hounding him about how awful it was to have an obviously abusive relationship in game like that (seriously some of the people on twitter went cray cray with it) and he responded by saying something along the lines of why should any relationship in the game have to be healthy and positive. Which, can be taken as inferring the Bull/Dorian relationship isn't healthy, but I think he was focusing on what he saw as the larger issue there.

Here is DG's post about it:

Are there people who consider Dorian and Iron Bull’s potential relationship to be “cute”? Huh. That’s not a term I would use.

I’m not going to go into detail on what I think about it — most of their relationship is left undetailed, after all, and the player is only catching the very edge of it…thus I think it’s a matter best left to headcanon — but I’d say that it has a real potential to either be a very passionate affair or the kind of epic mistake that one or both of them regrets later. Maybe both. I’m uncertain when it was dictated that relationships depicted in game had to only be of the safe and positive kind, but in this case I don’t think that Adoribull (heh, I do love that moniker) is really either of those things…and that’s not necessarily bad, in my view.

Poor Dorian. There’s nothing like discovering you actually like Fereldan beer. It’s like having all your friends talk about how awful Coors Light is, and you’re quietly sitting there remembering how you chugged back a full case of it just the other night. So sad.

EDIT: Evidently some people interpreted the above as my confirming that the potential relationship between Dorian and Iron Bull is abusive. I really don’t know how that could be the case, so let me clarify: Dorian is very much a willing participant in what occurs, if less-than-thrilled at his life choices (or, at least, that’s what he evinces), and while their relationship might possibly be less-than-healthy on the whole, it’s possible for that to be the case without it being abuse. If you still feel such, go right ahead, but *I* certainly never said so. Got it? Excellent.

As an aside, I wouldn't be surprised if a Bull/Dorian romance became canon for the characters if the Inquisitor did not romance either one. So, even though the devs have been good with being vague about personal things like that in the ancillary materials (comics, novels) I wouldn't be surprised to see it mentioned. Or perhaps that is me casting DG and Weekes is a more vindictive light than they deserve, I dunno... On the other hand, the comics and novels do need to get approval from higher ups, so perhaps that isn't even a potential issue. /shrug
 

[Sui Causa]

I think Iron Bull fussing over Dorian about his allergies and taking care of him was great, because it shows how much he cares about making him comfortable, even if it's something as silly as making sure he has a handkerchief.

 

If Iron Bull is a horrible person for debasing Dorian by insisting he 'cannot even blow his nose without Iron Bull'...

 

How is it different from the Inquisitor getting Dorian's birthright back for him? Are we equally awful as Iron Bull insisting on a handkerchief for him, or more because it's about something a hundred times more important to Dorian's welfare and ability to take care of himself than a handkerchief? Haven't we come around to accept the fact that sometimes you have to insist to help Dorian because he'll protest it on reflex?

 

I think I am missing the 'must hate iron bull' requirement to navigate this thread. :|

[nightscrawl]

^ Not everyone in the thread hates on Iron Bull, or even the Adoribull relationship. Some people are uncomfortable with it and should feel free to express themselves about it, just as you just did. This thread has always been a pretty safe space for expressing various things about Dorian, Bull, homosexuality, and so on, particularly as the rest of the forum -- or some other fandom spaces, like tumblr -- can get pretty toxic. No one is going to lambaste you for liking or defending that relationship, and that is the whole point.

 

 

To add to that conversation specifically, I think the main issue that many people have with the interaction is in Dorian's reluctance to have his private life acted out in the world, so he reacts negatively to Bull in those public instances. This plays into David's remark, "at least, that’s what he evinces." Now, I'm not crazy about the relationship either for some personal reasons, but I can see how that aspect of it, even if Dorian responds negatively around other people, is somewhat helpful in getting him to come out of his shell. Men don't do that kind of thing in Tevinter, especially not in public because "it's deviant and shameful." So in a way Dorian sort of needs to have that forced on him, and due to his history I think that he would react that way, particularly in public, even if he secretly liked the attention. Bull does it in that specific way, whereas the Inquisitor may do it in a different way (mine does).

 

We don't know how Dorian and Bull are in private with each other, we can only observe the limited banter interaction and go by their party remarks at the end. And of course that they are together for a further two years (and beyond) is also significant. I tend to feel that if someone genuinely likes Dorian and respects him, then they should also respect that that is his choice, and also respect that David Gaider said that the relationship was not abusive.

[sandalisthemaker]

 

I think I am missing the 'must hate iron bull' requirement to navigate this thread. :|

 

I didn't get the memo then, because I like Dorian and Bull equally.

 

On their relationship:  I personally have no problem with it.  At first, I was concerned with the way Dorian seemed to be uncomfortable with Bull's openess in party banter, but in the end Dorian seems to be happy with Bull.  

 

Their relationship never fully blossoms in my playthroughs because I am always romancing one of them, however I like to take the romance slowly and stretch out the flirts over the course of the game. (And I always flirt with them both).  So in the case of Dorian and Bull, they still get flirty with each other at the same time that my Inquisitor is getting flirty with each of them.  It makes for a very interesting and amusing vibe while out adventuring during the early to mid game.