22176 réponses à ce sujet

[Sui Causa]

I didn't get the memo then, because I like Dorian and Bull equally.

 

On their relationship:  I personally have no problem with it.  At first, I was concerned with the way Dorian seemed to be uncomfortable with Bull's openess in party banter, but in the end Dorian seems to be happy with Bull.  

 

Their relationship never fully blossoms in my playthroughs because I am always romancing one of them, however I like to take the romance slowly and stretch out the flirts over the course of the game. (And I always flirt with them both).  So in the case of Dorian and Bull, they still get flirty with each other at the same time that my Inquisitor is getting flirty with each of them.  It makes for a very interesting and amusing vibe while out adventuring during the early to mid game.

*whispers* OT3! OT3!

[sandalisthemaker]

*whispers* OT3! OT3!

 

He-he-he.

 

Some of my Inquisitors would be okay with that. 

[nightscrawl]

How is it different from the Inquisitor getting Dorian's birthright back for him? Are we equally awful as Iron Bull insisting on a handkerchief for him, or more because it's about something a hundred times more important to Dorian's welfare and ability to take care of himself than a handkerchief? Haven't we come around to accept the fact that sometimes you have to insist to help Dorian because he'll protest it on reflex?

Erm, no... Dorian is not protesting the amulet thing on reflex, he has really specific reasons for doing so, which he explains quite well later on. You can even hear it in part of his initial refusal: "You have people asking you for everything under the sun. I won't be one of them." IMO that instance is not at all the same as embarrassing Dorian in public in that way, regardless of whether Dorian secretly likes it or not.

[Elhanan]

Heard this one for the first time today; gave me a smile:

Dorian: Cole, are those real clothes, or-?
◾ Cole: They're real. What else would they be?
◾ Dorian: I thought maybe you'd conjured them, like your physical form.
◾ Cole: Do you conjure yours? Is that why they look like that?
◾ Dorian: Never mind, forget I said anything

[Sui Causa]

Dorian doesn't want to be indebted to the Inquisitor and that makes sense. The Inquisitor gives him the Amulet anyways because he wants to help. Because he cares about Dorian and wants to assist him. He goes against Dorian's resistance to do so anyways. This doesn't mean the Inquisitor is trying to emotionally manipulate Dorian, it doesn't mean that the Inquisitor infantized Dorian and didn't think he was capable of doing things for himself, it was because he cared. Dorian eventually realizes this, too. I believe 'Naive but adorable' was how he summed it up in the case of my Inquisitor.

 

Iron Bull wants to make sure Dorian has a hankie to blow his nose into because he wants to help. He protests Dorian's resistance to the idea because he cares. He's not trying to embarrass him or emotionally manipulate him either.

 

I'm fully aware it's like comparing a temple to a turnip, but the point still stands. Iron Bull is no more abusive for insisting Dorian take his hankie than the Inquisitor is abusive for Dorian to take his birthright.

 

It's silly.

 

Edit:

Besides, that banter is responsible for my phones ringtone which is just down right hnnnnngh.

http://suicausa.tumb...-myself-because

[nightscrawl]

Heard this one for the first time today; gave me a smile:

Dorian: Cole, are those real clothes, or-?
◾ Cole: They're real. What else would they be?
◾ Dorian: I thought maybe you'd conjured them, like your physical form.
◾ Cole: Do you conjure yours? Is that why they look like that?
◾ Dorian: Never mind, forget I said anything

 

Hah I just love all of his responses to Cole about that stuff. His tone is so great.

 

I suppose my favorite moments during banter are when we get laughter; he has such a great laugh, especially when it is genuine and not ironic.

[Dr. Doctor]

Erm, no... Dorian is not protesting the amulet thing on reflex, he has really specific reasons for doing so, which he explains quite well later on. You can even hear it in part of his initial refusal: "You have people asking you for everything under the sun. I won't be one of them." IMO that instance is not at all the same as embarrassing Dorian in public in that way, regardless of whether Dorian secretly likes it or not.

Dorian is worried that who he is will negatively impact the Inquisitor. Either by giving the impression that he's the evil Magister taking advantage of the powerful figure he's seduced, or later on pinning a giant "please assassinate me" sign on his back should he travel back home with him.

[ModernAcademic]

I love Dorian's laugh in Trespasser after he tells your Inquisitor how he/she never expected to see him again. Ramon Tikaram is brilliant!

(That dialog is available if Dorian had such low approval that he left the Inquisition)

[Fredward]

More Tikaram praise: that last entrance through the eluvian when he mentions he heard about your 'light show'? And he says he knew you'd break his heart? You can hear the pain.

[nightscrawl]

Dorian is worried that who he is will negatively impact the Inquisitor. Either by giving the impression that he's the evil Magister taking advantage of the powerful figure he's seduced, or later on pinning a giant "please assassinate me" sign on his back should he travel back home with him.

Well, I kinda figure that that fell under, "which he explains quite well later on," ... not sure it needed explaining.

 

 

More Tikaram praise: that last entrance through the eluvian when he mentions he heard about your 'light show'? And he says he knew you'd break his heart? You can hear the pain.

 

I don't remember the "light show" remark... but I took him with me all throughout the various things, so he would have seen it getting progressively worse, and did comment on it previously. But yeah... when he says, "Why didn't you tell me? We could have done... something... I don't know..." I was quite affected. I really liked what my Inquisitor said for the "I love you" dialogue option, but have tweaked it a bit in my head for my own guy.

 

It's interesting... in my head there is a real give and take as far as emotional support goes between Dorian and my Inquisitor and I really play that up in the fics I write. I like that that was expressed a bit during that scene. As you said, you can hear the pain, and can tell that Dorian is about to lose it. My Inquisitor is trying to keep it together for himself, for Dorian, and everyone else, so he offers reassurance for Dorian as well as himself, because if Dorian loses it than he would too.

 

Lol I thought it was the best dialogue in the whole damn DLC.

 

The next time I play I'll have to do reloads to see the other dialogue options, particularly the "I'm fine" one. He is displeased if you say something similar post-Adamant, so I'm curious to know what his reaction is here.

 

As an aside... I thought the British VA did well with all the screaming in agony in those scenes...

[Hazegurl]

Dorian doesn't want to be indebted to the Inquisitor and that makes sense. The Inquisitor gives him the Amulet anyways because he wants to help. Because he cares about Dorian and wants to assist him. He goes against Dorian's resistance to do so anyways. This doesn't mean the Inquisitor is trying to emotionally manipulate Dorian, it doesn't mean that the Inquisitor infantized Dorian and didn't think he was capable of doing things for himself, it was because he cared. Dorian eventually realizes this, too. I believe 'Naive but adorable' was how he summed it up in the case of my Inquisitor.

 

Iron Bull wants to make sure Dorian has a hankie to blow his nose into because he wants to help. He protests Dorian's resistance to the idea because he cares. He's not trying to embarrass him or emotionally manipulate him either.

 

I'm fully aware it's like comparing a temple to a turnip, but the point still stands. Iron Bull is no more abusive for insisting Dorian take his hankie than the Inquisitor is abusive for Dorian to take his birthright.

 

It's silly.

 

Edit:

Besides, that banter is responsible for my phones ringtone which is just down right hnnnnngh.

http://suicausa.tumb...-myself-because

I don't think anyone is claiming Bull is emotionally manipulating Dorian over a hankie, it seems like it was simply one of the things mentioned in the post in what is considered a long line of interactions between them where Bull appears to railroad the situation instead of just shutting up and accepting Dorian's response.  idk, I haven't heard the banter but I doubt Dorian would just run around with boogers in his nose so he most likely really didn't need one. 

 

As for the IQ and the Amulet. Other posters have explained it best.  Dorian's concern is for the Inquisitor and he doesn't want to be seen as another hanger on looking to squeeze the man dry.  It's not like Dorian doesn't want his birthright, he just wanted to get it back on his own out of fear of what people would think.  And there are many ways this can play out. My IQ hears about the Amulet and goes to get it for him.  When Dorian expresses his concern about it, he (my IQ) listens.  In other words, my IQ asks questions and listens, even if he assumes certain things, and assures Dorian that it's okay to ask for his help if he needs it. This is why I love the conversation between them in trespasser when Dorian gives him the crystal and remarks that if he gets in over his head he can call him.  Dorian has admitted on his own that he will seek help if needed. He's no longer concerned over stuff like that.

 

 Most of the interactions I've heard between Bull and Dorian is often goading, boasting, and ridicule.  And like I said before, that could just be my bias talking, because I don't like Bull as a person and find him annoying.

 

Also, this is not a Bull hate thread.   I would usually just not even read Bull/Dorian positive posts here, just like I would never click on the IB thread because I don't like Bull or his relationship with Dorian.

[nightscrawl]

As for the IQ and the Amulet. Other posters have explained it best.  Dorian's concern is for the Inquisitor and he doesn't want to be seen as another hanger on looking to squeeze the man dry.  It's not like Dorian doesn't want his birthright, he just wanted to get it back on his own out of fear of what people would think.  And there are many ways this can play out. My IQ hears about the Amulet and goes to get it for him.  When Dorian expresses his concern about it, he (my IQ) listens.  In other words, my IQ asks questions and listens, even if he assumes certain things, and assures Dorian that it's okay to ask for his help if he needs it. This is why I love the conversation between them in trespasser when Dorian gives him the crystal and remarks that if he gets in over his head he can call him.  Dorian has admitted on his own that he will seek help if needed. He's no longer concerned over stuff like that.

One of the reasons I like the Dorian romance as a game feature is because there are so many ways to approach it based on your own RP for your Inquisitor and how you want the relationship to play out. There are so many alternate paths; it's really awesome.

The only other romance I've done is Cullen's and there aren't too many avenues to deviate in that one. Are any of the other romances as varied as Dorian's?

I like talking to him first and then getting the amulet. I'm a little iffy on an RP reason to take him to VR, but I really can't pass up the line, "He's not my friend. He's... never mind what he is," which is just so revealing, and I adore the little nuggets he drops that way, particularly when he's provoked into dropping his guard.

As much as it would have eaten into game resources, I think it might have been a tad more realistic for his character if they had different kiss-on-demand scenes for before and after the quarters romance lock-in. Whether you have the "surprise" kiss route where you then have to say that you "want to get to know you better" (lol, silly boy), or you have the mutual kiss where it's kind of assumed that "okay now we have some sort of thing going on," I don't think he would have that type of adoring look until he was really sure what the status was because of the emotional baggage he's carrying. But the availability of the kiss-on-demand is still acceptable because I don't think he would be averse to a little make-out session with a guy he likes. (I played off this in fun RP ways, too. UST for the win!)

But again, I understand that it would not have been feasible for the devs to do this.

[Arlee]

Here is DG's post about it:

As an aside, I wouldn't be surprised if a Bull/Dorian romance became canon for the characters if the Inquisitor did not romance either one. So, even though the devs have been good with being vague about personal things like that in the ancillary materials (comics, novels) I wouldn't be surprised to see it mentioned. Or perhaps that is me casting DG and Weekes is a more vindictive light than they deserve, I dunno... On the other hand, the comics and novels do need to get approval from higher ups, so perhaps that isn't even a potential issue. /shrug
 

 

Thank you so much for having that handy! I am continually frustrated about DG deleting his tumblr account. He had so many interesting and important posts there It was also nice being able to see more into the thought processes, of course for some people that was part of the problem.

 

The idea of the Adoribull being cannon is interesting. I'm not sure they would really do that... but it is certainly a possibility. At the very least I'm sure they would only consider doing it with a Bull who was Tal Vashoth which is good

 

I think I am missing the 'must hate iron bull' requirement to navigate this thread. :|

 

Nah, I actually rather like Bull a lot. He's a really interesting person and his conversations are some of the more interesting ones imo. That said I'm not a fan of the whole Adoribull thing, but that's because I tend to see a lot of things I've gone through reflected in Dorian and some of their banters just really rub me wrongly because I know how distressed I'd be in that situation. But I'm also aware that's my personal issue. It's sort of similar to how I feel it is a horrifically bad choice to keep Cullen on Lyrium, but I understand why people would make that choice.

 

Heard this one for the first time today; gave me a smile:

Dorian: Cole, are those real clothes, or-?
◾ Cole: They're real. What else would they be?
◾ Dorian: I thought maybe you'd conjured them, like your physical form.
◾ Cole: Do you conjure yours? Is that why they look like that?
◾ Dorian: Never mind, forget I said anything

 

Hehe, yea that's a good one. They have a ton of really good banters. I particularly like the one where Dorian tells Cole he can ask him anything and then immediately realizes he's probably going to regret it but also doesn't take it back. It's always struck me as a particularly strong indication of Dorian's character.

 

More Tikaram praise: that last entrance through the eluvian when he mentions he heard about your 'light show'? And he says he knew you'd break his heart? You can hear the pain.

 

Well, I kinda figure that that fell under, "which he explains quite well later on," ... not sure it needed explaining.

 

 

 

I don't remember the "light show" remark... but I took him with me all throughout the various things, so he would have seen it getting progressively worse, and did comment on it previously. But yeah... when he says, "Why didn't you tell me? We could have done... something... I don't know..." I was quite affected. I really liked what my Inquisitor said for the "I love you" dialogue option, but have tweaked it a bit in my head for my own guy.

 

It's interesting... in my head there is a real give and take as far as emotional support goes between Dorian and my Inquisitor and I really play that up in the fics I write. I like that that was expressed a bit during that scene. As you said, you can hear the pain, and can tell that Dorian is about to lose it. My Inquisitor is trying to keep it together for himself, for Dorian, and everyone else, so he offers reassurance for Dorian as well as himself, because if Dorian loses it than he would too.

 

I really need to finish my two Dorian romance PTs, I just don't want it all to end! But it's really interesting there are alternate dialogues depending on how much he's been with you while your mark was freaking out. I'll probably never hear the lightshow one though because I always have him in my party >< But on the upside because of that I always get him talking about figuring out how the eluvians work so I can pretend they have their own personal way to visit each other

 

One of the reasons I like the Dorian romance as a game feature is because there are so many ways to approach it based on your own RP for your Inquisitor and how you want the relationship to play out. There are so many alternate paths; it's really awesome.

The only other romance I've done is Cullen's and there aren't too many avenues to deviate in that one. Are any of the other romances as varied as Dorian's?

I like talking to him first and then getting the amulet. I'm a little iffy on an RP reason to take him to VR, but I really can't pass up the line, "He's not my friend. He's... never mind what he is," which is just so revealing, and I adore the little nuggets he drops that way, particularly when he's provoked into dropping his guard.

As much as it would have eaten into game resources, I think it might have been a tad more realistic for his character if they had different kiss-on-demand scenes for before and after the quarters romance lock-in. Whether you have the "surprise" kiss route where you then have to say that you "want to get to know you better" (lol, silly boy), or you have the mutual kiss where it's kind of assumed that "okay now we have some sort of thing going on," I don't think he would have that type of adoring look until he was really sure what the status was because of the emotional baggage he's carrying. But the availability of the kiss-on-demand is still acceptable because I don't think he would be averse to a little make-out session with a guy he likes. (I played off this in fun RP ways, too. UST for the win!)

But again, I understand that it would not have been feasible for the devs to do this.

 

I think Dorian definitely has the most alternate paths to how your complete his romance. Cullen has the minor alteration that you can tell him to take lyrium until Coryface is defeated, Solas only has the variation of removing the vallaslin  or not but it doesn't affect the romance at all, I think there is some variation with Bull but iirc it's just the choice about if it's a real relationship or not (hope I'm not forgetting something there), Cass and Josie's are pretty set in one path... I can't bring myself to romance Blackwall so idk if there are alternate paths there or not. Pretty sure Sera was one path as well... It's sort of interesting there is so much more variety with Dorian though.

[Hazegurl]

One of the reasons I like the Dorian romance as a game feature is because there are so many ways to approach it based on your own RP for your Inquisitor and how you want the relationship to play out. There are so many alternate paths; it's really awesome.

The only other romance I've done is Cullen's and there aren't too many avenues to deviate in that one. Are any of the other romances as varied as Dorian's?

I like talking to him first and then getting the amulet. I'm a little iffy on an RP reason to take him to VR, but I really can't pass up the line, "He's not my friend. He's... never mind what he is," which is just so revealing, and I adore the little nuggets he drops that way, particularly when he's provoked into dropping his guard.

As much as it would have eaten into game resources, I think it might have been a tad more realistic for his character if they had different kiss-on-demand scenes for before and after the quarters romance lock-in. Whether you have the "surprise" kiss route where you then have to say that you "want to get to know you better" (lol, silly boy), or you have the mutual kiss where it's kind of assumed that "okay now we have some sort of thing going on," I don't think he would have that type of adoring look until he was really sure what the status was because of the emotional baggage he's carrying. But the availability of the kiss-on-demand is still acceptable because I don't think he would be averse to a little make-out session with a guy he likes. (I played off this in fun RP ways, too. UST for the win!)

But again, I understand that it would not have been feasible for the devs to do this.

I also love that scene in VR, especially the line you quoted. It was really hard for me to pick which path I liked best here but I went with not taking him to VR because I love the look of shock and surprise on his face and in his voice when he sees his Amulet.

 

Yeah I think the Dorian romance has the most paths available...but then again I only romance Dorian so... lol!

[Arlee]

I just listened to the convo with Dorian where he comments about my supporting free mages and makes the comment about elves running Halemshrial... well in that PT I did reunite Celene and Briala... so he sort of got it right

[Gervaise]

Most of my comments about Iron Bull are based on how I would feel myself or how I would feel if I saw a friend in that situation.    More the latter really because very often it is only when you are not actually involved with the person (or alternatively after the relationship ends) that you realise just how off some of the comments they make are.   Some of the things Bull says to Dorian in the main game are down right nasty; there is one when he talks about Dorian seeing him as washed up and then says something about holding up a mirror to Dorian.   Since they end up together, I do wonder whether Dorian starts to believe him.

 

The reason I reacted to the hanky conversation is that I suffer from asthma and occasionally do have sneezing fits as a result.   Someone offering me a hanky is thoughtful.    Someone insisting I take one because "you always say no and then you always find you need it" (I'm paraphrasing here) would be patronising and make me look and feel silly.   It is what a mother would say to a child, not what one grown man ought to say to another, particularly in front of other people.  

 

I would stress that I'm not saying the relationship is abusive, just there are aspects to it that I am not comfortable with, partly because Dorian doesn't seem entirely happy with it and partly because he doesn't seem to grow emotionally in the same way that he does with the Inquisitor.     Then again, the relationship with the Inquisitor begins in a very different way to that with Bull.       

 

The dialogue is identical whether Bull is in the Qun or not and I still maintain that if Bull is still in the Qun then he is deliberately manipulating Dorian.    He must have said all the same things and we know he uses the same endearments.     Then he not only betrays everyone but tries to kill Dorian first.    I wonder if Dorian would ever truly recover from that.

 

On a more positive note.   Thinking how Bull describes Dorian to the Inquisitor, I was wondering how you would describe Dorian to a friend?     I don't think I could restrict myself to just one adjective.    At the moment I'm going with "He's an amazing, intelligent, funny, passionate and caring man." 

[xcrstfallenstrx]

I was just wondering if anybody out there had seen anything similar to this:

 

Those of us who have romanced Dorian know that you can either sleep with him, or tell him you want to take things slowly.  I was looking for a mod that allows you to do both.  Like you take things slowly and in typical ME fashion before the final battle you get to spend the night with him.  I always thought it would have played out better that way.

 

Any and all help is appreciated.

[Gervaise]

I was rather disappointed when I took it slowly the first time, that there was no opportunity to advance it further at a later stage.   Apparently it must just be left to your imagination.   In fact I believe DG said it was deliberately written like that so that people who didn't want to see an explicit nude scene, didn't have to do so and could just decide for themselves how it went from then on.      I'm not sure how a mod would work since the bedroom scene leads to a discussion of how you want the relationship to proceed either way, so it wouldn't make much sense for him to be asking you again when you'd already confirmed you wanted a proper relationship before sleeping with him.

[Tielis]

Just curious, has the bug been fixed where, if you run through all of Dorian's conversations in Haven, his personal quest won't trigger when you get to Skyhold?

[ModernAcademic]

(...) it was deliberately written like that so that people who didn't want to see an explicit nude scene, didn't have to do so and could just decide for themselves how it went from then on. (...)

 

Hm. Now this made me think of how the best nude scenes are from Bull and Dorian romances...

[xcrstfallenstrx]

I was rather disappointed when I took it slowly the first time, that there was no opportunity to advance it further at a later stage.   Apparently it must just be left to your imagination.   In fact I believe DG said it was deliberately written like that so that people who didn't want to see an explicit nude scene, didn't have to do so and could just decide for themselves how it went from then on.      I'm not sure how a mod would work since the bedroom scene leads to a discussion of how you want the relationship to proceed either way, so it wouldn't make much sense for him to be asking you again when you'd already confirmed you wanted a proper relationship before sleeping with him.

 

In my head the mod would simply trigger, if you've met all the relationship requirements, obviously, right after the arbor wilds end scene, or after selecting the final mission in the war room.  It would only play the cutscene, then take you back to the war room, etc.

 

I always appreciated this feature about ME.  The night before you go to possibly face your death, and you spend it alone?  When you have a significant other?  Lame.  This is something DA does as a rule. Well except in DAO, and only if you romanced Morrigan, which isn't even really a romance.

[Arlee]

Just curious, has the bug been fixed where, if you run through all of Dorian's conversations in Haven, his personal quest won't trigger when you get to Skyhold?

 

Yea I was able to do it on one of my characters who was bugged awhile ago, so it should work

[Hazegurl]

In my head the mod would simply trigger, if you've met all the relationship requirements, obviously, right after the arbor wilds end scene, or after selecting the final mission in the war room.  It would only play the cutscene, then take you back to the war room, etc.

 

I always appreciated this feature about ME.  The night before you go to possibly face your death, and you spend it alone?  When you have a significant other?  Lame.  This is something DA does as a rule. Well except in DAO, and only if you romanced Morrigan, which isn't even really a romance.

I think it would be awesome if we had the best of both games.  What I like about DA romances is the opportunity to progress during the course of the story.  Which including adding a love scene somewhere mid story.  What I like about ME is having the love scene right before battle.  It would be nice if both games incorporated two possible love scenes. One mid way and another right before battle.  But perhaps that would be a resource drain.

[xcrstfallenstrx]

I think it would be awesome if we had the best of both games.  What I like about DA romances is the opportunity to progress during the course of the story.  Which including adding a love scene somewhere mid story.  What I like about ME is having the love scene right before battle.  It would be nice if both games incorporated two possible love scenes. One mid way and another right before battle.  But perhaps that would be a resource drain.

 

It might be, but they spend years working on these games, and I don't see how 2 cutscenes instead of 1 is such a huge effort, especially when they have already made both of them, but then again... you can't please everyone.  And what I wouldn't give for them to make specialized animations.  Because at the end of the game Iron Bull pushing you through the doorway with swishing hips, just like Dorian, is 100% not in character for him as the Dom in a clearly BDSM relationship.  Mah!  What we need is a Mass Age/Dragon Effect game so we can have the best of both all mushied up together.

[Tielis]

Yea I was able to do it on one of my characters who was bugged awhile ago, so it should work

 

Yay, thank you!  I have no more likes today, but I very much appreciate the response.