22176 réponses à ce sujet

[SentinelMacDeath]

I do like the Dorian/Bull ship somewhat, I used to like it much more but I'm always bummed out that their relationship feels so much deeper than anything my Inquisitor had with Dorian. It makes me jealous in the weirdest way. The more canon those 2 become the more I resent the ship *sigh*

[GoldenGail3]

I do like the Dorian/Bull ship somewhat, I used to like it much more but I'm always bummed out that their relationship feels so much deeper than anything my Inquisitor had with Dorian. It makes me jealous in the weirdest way. The more canon those 2 become the more I resent the ship *sigh*

Don't worry, in the next game we'll get something for Quiz/Dorian. It'll be grand to make up for Dorian/Iron Bull getting all the attention. Yeah!

[SentinelMacDeath]

Don't worry, in the next game we'll get something for Quiz/Dorian. It'll be grand to make up for Dorian/Iron Bull getting all the attention. Yeah!

we better! 

[GoldenGail3]

we better!

*Even though Cullen might be in way...*

Yeah! Quiz/Dorian Action doesn't get enough love.... It needs more! Go do it, Bioware!

[Crowsfeet]

If you're referring to that initial scene when you first see eachother, no. He calls the inq "old friend". However, later on when you talk to him again, he says 'amatus' and that quizzy is the man he loves.

Did you encourage him to return to Tevinter in the post Temple of Mythal scene? Did he tell you he was leaving soon at the party? It's my understanding that you only get this first kiss if you asked him to stay with you. This means that you've only been parted for a month, rather than two years. Try asking him to stay next time. Dorian will accuse you of emotional blackmail, but he's really only teasing and is actually pleased to hear you say that you need him by your side. I still feel awkward and needy every time I do this though, but it's the truth.

[TwixMix]

Oh man... that must be it. I tried that but yeah I didn't want him to feel like I was emotionally blackmailing him... I wish there was an option that was just flat out "I don't want you to go" bc the other option sounds like you need him for the inquisition, not yourself.

[Crowsfeet]

Oh man... that must be it. I tried that but yeah I didn't want him to feel like I was emotionally blackmailing him... I wish there was an option that was just flat out "I don't want you to go" bc the other option sounds like you need him for the inquisition, not yourself.

I've always struggled with the imperfect options and responses in this conversation, but Trespasser makes it much easier now. Knowing that he returns to do his important work regardless. The 'needy' option just means that you get an extra couple of years with him, you're not stopping him from doing what he has to eventually, and it's not like Dorian is unhappy with that.

[TwixMix]

That... somehow makes me feel better actually.

[L.C.]

-I've seen so many alternate scenes of Dorian I literally have to see them all. I'm talking about the trespasser scene where the inquisitor is like "a month away and that's the greeting I get?". The alternate sex scene where quizzy is full frontal nude lol. And any other alternate scenes. I recently heard how to get the kiss in the library... I shall try it soon. But anyone know how to get these?

 

There are two romance cutscenes with Dorian that have either/or choices leading to alternate scenes--the choice of first kiss, and the sex scene. The rest of his romance-specific cutscenes are the same for everybody.

 

Your 'first kiss' can either be right after Dorian's personal quest, or, if you choose not to pick the 'heart' icon there, you can wait until the conversation after that where he's arguing with Mother Giselle, and pick the romance choice there that will only show up if you haven't already kissed him to initiate the romance. It's an either-or choice, you can't have both. Either way, they both happen in / in front of Dorian's room in the library.

 

The repeatable Inquisitor's bedroom kiss unlocks after that, and then there's the kiss you get in Dorian's room in the library when you return his amulet (animation-wise, the post-amulet kiss is basically the same as the repeatable kiss, but their positions are reversed). Those are the same for everyone.

 

Then, there's either the sex scene in the IQ's bedroom, or an alternate scene there with a kiss instead (which is a slight variation of the repeatable kiss, animation-wise), depending on your choices. Again, it's an either-or thing. You can't get both on the same playthrough.

 

Plus the optional dance at Halamshiral, and the basegame epilogue, which have romantic interactions but no kissing / sex.

 

There are two more possible kiss scenes in Trespasser that I'm aware of, one at the beginning when he greets you, and another when you talk after his 'party'. I don't know to what extent your game choices or responses have on whether or not you get them, but I got them both on my playthrough. ETA: The posts above mine cover the possible requirements for the first Trespasser kiss.

 

Any other variations or alternate versions you might have seen are probably manipulations using the camera tools.

[Gervaise]

With regard to the Dorian drinking problem; I think he did have one in the past and still does to some extent at the beginning of his time at Skyhold.   He is not an alcoholic but he does abuse alcohol to drown his sorrows.     Then he either gets a best friend or lover in the Inquisitor and so his drinking becomes less of a problem and more just a way of relaxing.     (I won't get into what I think about the whole Iron Bull thing because that tends to upset people who like that relationship).

 

If you choose the option of spending time together, instead of asking for a kiss when you visit him, on one occasion he does suggest going off and having a few drinks together.   To be honest the options for entertainment at Skyhold are rather limited.    Other fun things you can do together are playing Wicked Grace, watching the troops train and critiquing their uniforms or Dorian telling you all the fun things you could be doing if only you were in Minrathous (a hundred ways to shame your ancestors).    He also plays chess with Cullen.   Other than that it would seem the only other thing to do is read.   (Not that I've anything against that since I like reading to pass the time but it would seem the library in Skyhold is rather restricted).   So it is hardly surprising that his main way of letting off stream is having a few drinks at the tavern.    Vivienne likes her alcohol too and they discuss the relative merits of the wine that is on offer but of course she prefers to entertain in her quarters rather than slum it with the peasants.

 

If you are not in a romance with Dorian but are in one with Cassandra, he also seems to get a lot of entertainment from watching what goes on between the two of you, plus teasing Cassandra about both that and her reading material.    I could imagine him helping my chap lay out all the candles down into the grove for the romantic rendeavouz with Cassandra and half suspect that it was his idea that I used a poem that was on the censured list by the Chantry, particularly since as a Dalish my guy hadn't any idea what constituted a suitable love poem but did have a wicked sense of humour, which is why he and Dorian got on so particularly well.  

[Gervaise]

I just had to come back because I've just been over on You Tube and seen the encounter in Trespasser between Dorian, as ambassador, and an Inquisitor  who punched him back in the main game.   It is priceless:

 

Dorian: "I'll wager you never thought to see me again."

Inquisitor (Adaar): "Not particularly."

Dorian: "Funny how things turn out."  

Then he laughs; you just have to hear that laugh - Dorian is really enjoying sounding like a Magister.  Before he ends with:

"The south is still a freezing **** hole I see."

 

This exchange makes me so happy because if there is anyone who never deserved to be punched it is Dorian so I love how he gets the last laugh (literally) and the last word.    I also managed to get a answer to my other questions because there is no party, no crystal and no mention of the Inquisitor in connection with Dorian in the epilogue.   Just Dorian back in Tevinter fighting against corruption (though of course without the added inspiration of his friend/lover to keep going). 

[TwixMix]

I do have a question. Do any of you think Dorian would enter a romance with someone who was transgender? (like Krem)

[Hazegurl]

I do have a question. Do any of you think Dorian would enter a romance with someone who was transgender? (like Krem)

Since this topic is a sensitive one I'm gonna add a disclaimer:

 

 I do not see Krem as a woman.  Nor am I speaking for Dorian and claiming that he would see Krem as a woman.  I'm more or less trying to exclude modern thinking from it all and give my opinion based on what my personal opinion of Dorian is, his love of men, and his issues with his father.

 

Now to my answer.   I'm gonna say no he wouldn't romance Krem. My reason is because Krem doesn't have all his parts and has to bind his boobs. Dorian doesn't seem the type to find that attractive, imo. (ie not into female parts).  A part of me thinks Dorian could have a relationship with Krem because Krem is a nice guy but I see Krem's lack of proper equipment getting in the way in the end.

 

It also might hit too close to home with his father wanting him to be with the opposite sex.  In a sense it would seem like giving his father what he wanted in a roundabout way.

 

And I don't think Krem is gay.

[TwixMix]

I would hope he would. Krem isn't really his type but if the inquisitor was a trans man? I dunno. Dorian does basically say he wants something more than physicality. It's hard to say since it's basically mideval times at this point. Possible though that growing up in Tevinter, and having such issues with homosexuality, it wouldn't be as easy...

[nightscrawl]

Well... this is a dicey subject. Thank the Maker it's not in the general forum and you're with us more sane and reasonable Dorian fans.

 

Since this topic is a sensitive one I'm gonna add a disclaimer:
 
 I do not see Krem as a woman.  Nor am I speaking for Dorian and claiming that he would see Krem as a woman.  I'm more or less trying to exclude modern thinking from it all and give my opinion based on what my personal opinion of Dorian is, his love of men, and his issues with his father.
 
Now to my answer.   I'm gonna say no he wouldn't romance Krem. My reason is because Krem doesn't have all his parts and has to bind his boobs. Dorian doesn't seem the type to find that attractive, imo. (ie not into female parts).  A part of me thinks Dorian could have a relationship with Krem because Krem is a nice guy but I see Krem's lack of proper equipment getting in the way in the end.
 
It also might hit too close to home with his father wanting him to be with the opposite sex.  In a sense it would seem like giving his father what he wanted in a roundabout way.
 
And I don't think Krem is gay.

Doesn't Krem have a thing for Maryden? So we know he is at least interested in women. I dunno about men though...

I agree with your general premise.
 
 

I would hope he would. Krem isn't really his type but if the inquisitor was a trans man? I dunno. Dorian does basically say he wants something more than physicality. It's hard to say since it's basically mideval times at this point. Possible though that growing up in Tevinter, and having such issues with homosexuality, it wouldn't be as easy...

Dorian does want more. But despite some of his self-destructive sexual habits in the past, he does like and enjoy sex, and that sex is with men with male parts. So, like Hazegurl, I can see Dorian becoming close with a trans* man, but I don't know whether it would eventually just not work out because of the physical aspect of it.
 
The opposite would be interesting to consider as well. So if we're talking about a trans* woman who has male parts (like Maevaris), that doesn't work out either because she considers herself as a woman, regardless of parts. And again, Dorian is attracted to men.
 
Dorian and Mae are good friends, so I don't see him caring one way or the other what Mae or Krem consider themselves as, or present themselves as to the world. But it is a bit of a different matter to consider his own sexual desires, wants, and needs with such a person.
 
But who knows, really. Mae's husband obviously didn't have a sexual problem with it, but he was his own person, just as Dorian is his own person.

 

 

Contrary to some of the contrived outrage presented by some of the Tumblrati, I'm of the opinion that if someone or something (as in a sexual act) doesn't get your motor running, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't consider whatever act, or whoever person to be "wrong," are judgmental, or anything like that. A person can certainly have prejudicial reasons for not considering someone sexually attractive (fetishization is the exact opposite of this, which can be equally bad), but that isn't always the case. (I'm not saying anyone is suggesting this here. It's just a general commentary.)

Modifié par nightscrawl, 06 décembre 2015 - 02:28 .

[nightscrawl]

I just had to come back because I've just been over on You Tube and seen the encounter in Trespasser between Dorian, as ambassador, and an Inquisitor  who punched him back in the main game.   It is priceless:
 
Dorian: "I'll wager you never thought to see me again."
Inquisitor (Adaar): "Not particularly."
Dorian: "Funny how things turn out."  
Then he laughs; you just have to hear that laugh - Dorian is really enjoying sounding like a Magister.  Before he ends with:
"The south is still a freezing **** hole I see."
 
This exchange makes me so happy because if there is anyone who never deserved to be punched it is Dorian so I love how he gets the last laugh (literally) and the last word.    I also managed to get a answer to my other questions because there is no party, no crystal and no mention of the Inquisitor in connection with Dorian in the epilogue.   Just Dorian back in Tevinter fighting against corruption (though of course without the added inspiration of his friend/lover to keep going).

 
Well, he may get the last laugh with the Inquisitor, but I'm not too keen on the situation in general. Dorian builds his walls well and is not one to show pain or weakness to someone he doesn't trust or care about. The reason I don't like the situation is because, from everything we know about him, and the issues with this father, nothing would actually be resolved for him personally, and he's still just carrying around that pain.

 

Romance aside, he needs a friend who he can trust and appreciates him for himself, and all that that entails. Think about the two most important men in his life; Halward and Alexius. Both betrayed his trust and abandoned all of the principles and ideals they taught him. Who does he have after that? No one. This is why the relationship with the Inquisitor (friend or romance) is so important to him.

 

So in this scenario, we are left to assume that he goes back to Tevinter and wades around the viper's nest, and plays the Game with the best of them. But that doesn't mean that he likes it. He's doing what he feels he needs to do.

 

 

... Sorry if that was a buzzkill.

[ComedicSociopathy]

 
Well, he may get the last laugh with the Inquisitor, but I'm not too keen on the situation in general. Dorian builds his walls well and is not one to show pain or weakness to someone he doesn't trust or care about. The reason I don't like the situation is because, from everything we know about him, and the issues with this father, nothing would actually be resolved for him personally, and he's still just carrying around that pain.

 

Romance aside, he needs a friend who he can trust and appreciates him for himself, and all that that entails. Think about the two most important men in his life; Halward and Alexius. Both betrayed his trust and abandoned all of the principles and ideals they taught him. Who does he have after that? No one. This is why the relationship with the Inquisitor (friend or romance) is so important to him.

 

So in this scenario, we are left to assume that he goes back to Tevinter and wades around the viper's nest, and plays the Game with the best of them. But that doesn't mean that he likes it. He's doing what he feels he needs to do.

 

 

... Sorry if that was a buzzkill.

 

He still has Mae. 

[nightscrawl]

He still has Mae.

Well yes, I don't suppose I should have implied that he is totally bereft of anyone. However, I've gotten the impression that, since Mae is older, he regards her as more of a mentor-type. But I still don't think there is the same closeness that he had with Alexius as a mentor. And you know, however exaggerated it may be (since he's being emotional in the scene), Dorian does refer to a BFF Inquisitor is his "best and only friend" at the party.

[L.C.]

(Comment redacted.)

[nightscrawl]

Actually, 'sex with male parts' is never presented as a prerequisite requirement to having a 'complete' romance with Dorian.

Exactly the opposite is true in fact, as you can romance him without any explicit indication that the Inquisitor has had sex with him. There are a few lines of dialogue that are ambiguous and can be interpreted this way as the player chooses to, but it's not required.

*SIGH* I guess I shouldn't have posted at all. YES, I know that. But the fact remains that Dorian IS a gay man and also enjoys sex with men. I did add caveats in my post, where I said, "... but I don't know whether it would eventually just not work out because of the physical aspect of it," and "But who knows, really." Thanks for ignoring those parts of my statement.

I thought I was extremely fair in my post, and open. I am generally not one to say whether a character would or would NOT do something because I feel that their writer is really the only person who can answer such statements, so I DO tend to throw in a lot of caveats, and use words like "might," "perhaps," and so on, and I NEVER speak in absolutes when talking about characters.

 

Sorry if that wasn't enough for you. I'm not rephrasing anything, and I'm done with the subject.

And I apologize to the Dorian thread for continuing the discussion when I should have known better.

[Hazegurl]

True you can romance him without having sex with him but that doesn't automatically mean he would never want to have it or that he would be willing to be in a relationship with someone he may not find attractive or could satisfy him.  Yes he's willing to wait to have sex, and have most likely looked at a multitude of other qualities the IQ has besides sex (How you handle yourself with Porchain is one), that does not mean he wouldn't consider what the IQ has to offer in the bedroom should he continue to pursue the relationship.  

 

Anyway,

 

That's why I ended up adding a disclaimer because I just know that this is one of those "hot button" topics that could easily end in a locked thread.  And even with the disclaimer I debated for a while whether to click the post button. The only thing I will add further is that this is just something people can head canon and decide on their own what Dorian would or wouldn't do and no one would be right or wrong. This is supposed to be a hypothetical question, right?

[TwixMix]

I was just curious. Clearly nobody really knows for sure. And short of asking Dorian himself or the creators, there's no way to know... I do agree with L.C. though; I believe he would at least try and I don't think it's really that big of an issue "bedroom" wise(not as complicated as you might think). The relationship doesn't really revolve around sex as much as say, Bull's romance with the inq. He initiates that kind of intimacy seemingly far less once they're in a romance. Though I didn't think about the aspect of how his relationship with his father would affect the decision making process in that situation...

I really have no ****** idea lol that's why I asked. Just wanted different takes on it.

[Gervaise]

Tactfully changing the subject back to my earlier post about ambassador Dorian to a hostile Inquisitor. 

I wasn't saying that I thought that was a great situation for Dorian to be in.   Simply that when the Inquisitor has been such an a***hole to him and he so abhorred how they used the Inquisition, it must have given him a great deal of personal satisfaction to come back and let them see that he has done okay for himself whilst the knives are out for the corrupt Inquisitor.     I could even see how he might be willing to still help out because the threat comes from Qunari, although he can't have been too pleased when that resulted in a renewed attack on his country.   Still, the Qunari taking over the south would have been very bad news for Tevinter, so putting a stop to it was in his country's best interests.

 

I've been thinking again about Dorian's role as a friend.   We tend to think so much about the romance side of knowing him, that side gets less focus.    My first play through was as a Solas romance and it left me feeling so depressed (even before Trespasser) that I preferred not thinking about it too much.   Dorian was the only positive to come out of it and it was seeing how good a friend he was that made me confident about romancing him.   Then I had a third run where my guy romanced Cassandra but was really good friends with Dorian, so I dubbed them the three musketeers because of the dynamitic between the three of them.   However, I've been giving more thought to that first friendship and that has actually got me engaged with her character again.

 

There is something particularly touching in their friendship.    They travelled through time together and it was when he said "don't worry I'll protect you" that Dorian seriously started to challenge Solas for her heart.   If he hadn't been gay I'm pretty sure they would have ended up together.     When they were discussing about how he "led her on", there was a moment when he said "in another life may be" (something like that) which made me think that he was thinking "if only" just as she was.   Which made their friendship all the deeper in a way; it was truly a platonic love.     One of the worst parts of the main game was when Solas dumped her and she ran up to find Dorian for solace, only for him to be thinking about leaving too.     When he delayed going back to Tevinter after the party, I was able to see it as Dorian standing by his friend to help her get through it, because he could see how upset she was.

 

Then we experienced Trespasser and despite everything she still loves Solas but that is what makes it worse because she can't cope with learning the truth about him.  She can't reconcile the fact that this was always his plan with the person she admired and loved.  Until they decide to tell us what they do plan to do with the Inquisitor, I am quite content to think of her as being in the depths of despair; this can't be true, I've been sucked through time again, or the Nightmare demon has got to me.     I'd already thought that Dorian would be using the crystal in a different way, calling her up to help her and support her, rather than the other way around, but in a strange way it probably does help him be strong as well.    

 

Then it occurred to me last night that in fact Dorian is the best person to help her through it, because he is probably the only one of her friends who truly understands what she is going through because he has experienced a similar sort of thing, twice.    First there was the discovery that his father, the man he always looked up to and felt bad because he couldn't fulfil his expectations, actually was planning to use blood magic to alter his mind.   Then there was Alexius, his surrogate father, who had always spoken out against corruption and had been trying to build a more responsible Tevinter, joining forces with the Venatori.     He also knows that when Alexius was depressed about the loss of his wife and his failure to find a cure for Felix, telling him to simply snap out of it wasn't helpful at all.    (There are people on other threads who seem to think that a depressed Lavellan is just being weak and that it is unrealistic role playing for them to feel that way because they would never have had been capable of leading the Inquisition).    Even though initially he just agreed with everyone else that Solas must die, he understands why she wants to save him and will do his best to help her.  

 

So I now have a renewed interest in my female Lavellan as my canon friendship run because I can explore the friendship between her and Dorian as he helps her through her crisis period and then they can unite in purpose to save the world from Solas and Solas from himself. 

[nightscrawl]

^ Oh I've thought about the friendship a lot, and even have alternate plot things for a non-romanced Dorian. These don't match my personal head-canon, or even the game's, but are more "what if" scenarios.

 

Like -- and I can't believe I am sharing this with you all -- one revolves around the situation of Dorian being betrayed by Qunari Bull, and the Inquisitor sort of confessing feelings before he goes back to Tevinter. Naturally, Dorian is totally pissed about the whole thing, and at the Inquisitor. It's not really making a move -- he doesn't expect Dorian to do anything, or even feel the same -- so much as it being his last opportunity to say something. Not going to elaborate further, but my guy isn't so dense that he doesn't understand how bad it looks and that it is REALLY atrocious timing on his part.

 

And another one basically just has their relationship in a sort of "he's my friend, but could there be more?" limbo until the main game is done, and then they get together. At that point, Dorian is more or less, "Why didn't you say anything, you idiot?"

 

But as for the normal game and relationship, even though I do play out the romance, the friendship did come first and I play that up in my writing. They are friends, then lovers, and my Inquisitor considers Dorian to be his best friend.

 

Daww, makes me all melty thinking about it. Thanks Gervaise.

[Hazegurl]

Tactfully changing the subject back to my earlier post about ambassador Dorian to a hostile Inquisitor. 

I wasn't saying that I thought that was a great situation for Dorian to be in.   Simply that when the Inquisitor has been such an a***hole to him and he so abhorred how they used the Inquisition, it must have given him a great deal of personal satisfaction to come back and let them see that he has done okay for himself whilst the knives are out for the corrupt Inquisitor.     I could even see how he might be willing to still help out because the threat comes from Qunari, although he can't have been too pleased when that resulted in a renewed attack on his country.   Still, the Qunari taking over the south would have been very bad news for Tevinter, so putting a stop to it was in his country's best interests.

 

That is a good take on it but I think Dorian only gets the upper hand depending on the individual IQ.  Some people may not have liked him and just wanted him gone and don't really care how well he's done for himself, some people may view his promotion as a direct result of his wealthy family combined with him joining the Inquisition.  Which makes his success still based on his connection to the IQ, however small and not about his personal accomplishments.  There are those who may not like Dorian but respect him for moving on. Then there are those who think the companions should be defendant on them or those who didn't like him because he's gay.  Now those are the ones I think Dorian has the true upper hand over. And it is glorious.

 

Speaking of which, I really love it when BW writes the rare independent companion.  The one who gets by on their own and not because the PC put them in the position they have. 

 

I can't speak from a pure friendship perspective because I didn't finish my female elf (romancing Solas and Cullen at the time I stopped) play through and I haven't used the Cullen romance mod for my Male IQ...yet. But, I do consider Dorian my IQ's closest friend and definitely someone he trusts and confide in.  I like to head canon more time going by between them reaching Skyhold, Dorian still a bit ticked off about not receiving aid at redcliffe, to them finally speaking gradually until a friendship forms...then of course more.

 

@Nightscrawl, Ooh, I like the IB betrayal confession one.  I can just see the awkwardness and angst coming off of that one.