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[nightscrawl]

@Nightscrawl, Ooh, I like the IB betrayal confession one.  I can just see the awkwardness and angst coming off of that one.

The way I think of it is this. I normally play out the Dorian romance by not taking the first kiss, and then get the alternate one after the Giselle conversation because my Inquisitor is not the type to make the first move, even though he IS interested. But in order to get that kiss you have to take the . But what if he didn't? What if instead he picked the friendship response in that scene?

 

To me, even though Dorian likes the Inquisitor as a friend, that surprise kiss is somewhat of a test that is a result of all the casual flirting they've been doing. For the romance, the Inquisitor responds positively and then has the further option of specifically stating that he wants to  "get to know [Dorian] better."

 

But if there is no kiss, Dorian might feel that the Inquisitor isn't interested in him that way, despite the flirting. So then he puts it out of his mind, enjoys being with his friend, and eventually hooks up with Bull. Once that is made known, I can see my Inquisitor being saddened by it, but not letting it show one iota and just accepting that that is the way things are, and content to be happy that Dorian is happy. He would however, carry a torch for quite a long while, especially since he would be seeing Dorian every single day. I can really see it all playing out this way, given my Inquisitor's personality.

[nightscrawl]

Oh, new page. Here is a gigantic Dorian for you all (click img to see the huge one). This is my one and only attempt at playing with the DSR on, and I can certainly see the appeal. This is from the party after you click to head to your quarters. I typically pick the, "You do realize we have all the time in the world now," response, hence the expression on Dorian's face.

 

Spoiler

[Gervaise]

Funnily enough in ME3 there was situation of an unrequited love being admitted to by one of the characters.   I won't say names because of spoilers.    The thing was they only introduced the possibility of a gay romance in ME3 and this character had been around in ME1 with no inkling that he might feel that way.   We had just been best friends.   Then all of a sudden, without me leading him on at all, except to agree to meeting up for a coffee in the Citadel, this character starts saying how he's always had feelings for me, which was rather awkward since my guy was straight and already in a relationship but I felt really bad about having to tell him I wasn't interested.  I wondered if I had inadvertently led him on in some way.

 

So, based off that episode, I'd say your chap holding a torch for Dorian but not having the courage to admit until near the end seems believable.   At least he knew that Dorian was gay.

 

Would mention though that not taking the kiss after Giselle still doesn't prevent the possibility of romance provided you haven't actually said so.    My Josephine romance had been careful not to encourage Dorian, yet got offered the option of starting a romance after that and continued to do so until he got locked in with Josie.   Mind you that could have just been the game acting weird; you never know with these things.

 

Oh, and the hostile Inquisitor encounter: You have to hear Dorian's laugh to know that he's just loving it.   He couldn't care a stuff about what the Inquisitor thinks; he just loves the irony of the situation.   (And actually he did get the ambassadorship because of his family connection, except a hostile Inquisitor doesn't know that).   Apparently Halward still keeps him as his heir even if you don't recruit Dorian, he becomes a Magister and works with Maevaris.   It is the friendship and moral support of the Inquisitor that is lacking but Dorian keeps going regardless.    He has found a cause that he really cares about and he's sticking with it.   (Actually also another indication that they have plans for Dorian in the sequel since his basic outcome is the same regardless of what you decide to do).   

[nightscrawl]

Would mention though that not taking the kiss after Giselle still doesn't prevent the possibility of romance provided you haven't actually said so.    My Josephine romance had been careful not to encourage Dorian, yet got offered the option of starting a romance after that and continued to do so until he got locked in with Josie.   Mind you that could have just been the game acting weird; you never know with these things.

Yes, I do recall you mentioning that previously.

The basis of the plot would be that they each see that there is some sort of initial attraction, but neither of them does anything about it, and it's eventually too late for poor Inquisitor.
 

Oh, and the hostile Inquisitor encounter: You have to hear Dorian's laugh to know that he's just loving it. He couldn't care a stuff about what the Inquisitor thinks; he just loves the irony of the situation.

...

It is the friendship and moral support of the Inquisitor that is lacking but Dorian keeps going regardless. He has found a cause that he really cares about and he's sticking with it.

Well, yes. I don't doubt that Dorian is being Dorian in that scene. I just dislike that his personal issues aren't resolved in that scenario, and it makes me sad.
 

(And actually he did get the ambassadorship because of his family connection, except a hostile Inquisitor doesn't know that). Apparently Halward still keeps him as his heir even if you don't recruit Dorian, he becomes a Magister and works with Maevaris.

That's not really surprising. Halward went to Redcliffe on his own, seeking forgiveness. I actually wasn't surprised when Dorian said so in Trespasser either. In the tavern, the Inquisitor's influence is over Dorian, not Halward.


And of course I do agree that it is highly likely we will see Dorian in the next game, I just don't like to hope too much. Plans change.

[L.C.]

*SIGH* I guess I shouldn't have posted at all. YES, I know that. But the fact remains that Dorian IS a gay man and also enjoys sex with men. I did add caveats in my post, where I said, "... but I don't know whether it would eventually just not work out because of the physical aspect of it," and "But who knows, really." Thanks for ignoring those parts of my statement.
I thought I was extremely fair in my post, and open. I am generally not one to say whether a character would or would NOT do something because I feel that their writer is really the only person who can answer such statements, so I DO tend to throw in a lot of caveats, and use words like "might," "perhaps," and so on, and I NEVER speak in absolutes when talking about characters.

Sorry if that wasn't enough for you. I'm not rephrasing anything, and I'm done with the subject.
And I apologize to the Dorian thread for continuing the discussion when I should have known better.

I wasn't attacking you, you can calm down with the defensive martyr response. I wasn't just looking for something to nitpick. It's a detail I don't see included much in these types of discussions and there are plenty of people that still actually aren't even aware of it since it wasn't a factor in their playthrough. It is important to me personally and was relevant to the topic and question that was asked. I thought I addressed it politely, though I guess not. I've also seen a lot of criticism of Dorian lately elsewhere, usually characterizing him as 'sex-obsessed', so that was probably a factor in my actually deciding to open my mouth on a subject for once, and why your choice of phrasing may have needled me more than usual.

Apologies for sticking my two cents in where it was not welcome. It was not my intent to be disruptive and I'm not looking to force my thoughts on anyone else or start an argument. I have removed my offending comments and you can continue with your discussion as you please.

[Gervaise]

There was another small thought that I had concerning Dorian and slavery.    I pondered previously whether the use of the words "servant" and "kitchen staff" in his letter was significant and agreed with the majority at the time that it probably wasn't.    However, I was reading up on the various classes in Tevinter again and saw there is a class of freed slave known as the liberati.    They aren't full citizens as the soporati are and tend to work as personal servants for the Magisters, probably the same Magisters who saw fit to free them.   This would be a personal decision on the part of the individual Magister and so would not seem a threat to the overall status quo.

 

So it is entirely possible that the servants working for Dorian in Minrathous are slaves that he inherited from his father that he subsequently freed, so are now liberati who willingly stayed with him.    Dorian, of course, would continue to ensure they were well cared for and paid a decent wage.    I'd like to think that is the case anyway.    I have the feeling that if my Lavellan turned up in Minrathous and found Dorian still had elven slaves (or slaves of any race), he might be just a little ticked off with his beloved, bearing in mind that he would know making them liberati was an option.  

[Hazegurl]

Funnily enough in ME3 there was situation of an unrequited love being admitted to by one of the characters.   I won't say names because of spoilers.    The thing was they only introduced the possibility of a gay romance in ME3 and this character had been around in ME1 with no inkling that he might feel that way.   We had just been best friends.   Then all of a sudden, without me leading him on at all, except to agree to meeting up for a coffee in the Citadel, this character starts saying how he's always had feelings for me, which was rather awkward since my guy was straight and already in a relationship but I felt really bad about having to tell him I wasn't interested.  I wondered if I had inadvertently led him on in some way.

Ah yes, Mr. Kaidan Alenko, I think its safe to say his name.  The talk over the steak lunch is one of my favorite "let's start a relationship" convos from BW. It's a bit corny but it works because the character is sort of awkward when it comes to stuff like that.  My Shepard had been pining over Kaidan since ME1.  And IMO, it seemed obvious Kaidan was attracted as well.  There just seemed to be an undertone of attraction to their interactions on the ship. Mainly because Kaidan was a romance choice for MShep before BW chickened out. There is even a mod to unlock the romantic dialogue that was recorded.

 

  In ME2 Kaidan says some choice lines that can be taken as more than just friendship.  "Losing you was like losing a limb."  then there was the obvious set up by TIM to get Shepard to see Kaidan, asking him whether or not he put his relationship with him in the past, then the option to get angry and not talk about it. The fighting at the start of ME3 and then finally getting together.  It just made the wait so worth it.  Kaidan is by far my favorite BW romance because of that.

 

Back to Dorian, I forgot about the liberati. He did say he never thought about slaves until he came to the South so perhaps he did free them but now pay them.  Although I wonder if his family didn't already have Liberati in service to them.  Dorian mentions that the horrible things Vivienne says to him are nothing compared to what his gardener says to him back home. I find it hard to imagine a slave talking to him like that.

[nightscrawl]

"Losing you was like losing a limb."

I've never played any of the ME games, but damn that is a winning line. I love it when guys say sappy stuff.

[TwixMix]

Just started a second playthrough, and everyone is called me "herald" again. Does anyone know if the inquisitor was actually sent from Andraste?

[nightscrawl]

^ It's up for debate and is best left to roleplay. There is no definitive proof either way. Some people think the figure in the Fade was Andraste, even though she took the form of Divine Justinia V. Some take everything at face value and claim that everything said there means that there was no divine intervention of any sort. Some think that, regardless of all of the above, the Maker is still watching and guiding when its needed.

 

You can choose to believe whatever you want for your character.

 

The faith aspect of this game is one of my favorite parts. And to bring it back to Dorian, I do wish we had the opportunity to talk more with him regarding his own faith. Or at least have the limited dialogue that we do get change a bit after the events at Adamant. I'd really like to know what he thinks after that. But perhaps DG didn't want to delve too much into it because he already had Cassandra, and there was also Leliana, and he wanted Dorian to be a bit more accessible.

 

When Dorian says, "You are our bulwark against evil," it really sticks with my Inquisitor, and adds to some of the anxiety he has later on as the game progresses.

 

I'd also really like to know some of the differences in the teachings between the northern and southern Chantry. We know they have the "Black" Divine and that they consider Andraste to have been a mage. Is that it? What about the rest of the Chant of Light? How does that differ?

[Fredward]

HEY GUYS.

 

Since I've been stalking Mr Rech ever since he came up in Dorian discussions I saw this today, his Instagram is [delightfully] NSFW.

[SaruDa]

if he is going to cosplay dorian everybody else can just go home because how are you suppose to compete with THAT? lol

[TwixMix]

So I'm having trouble with Dorian first kiss, and I have no idea why... I'm trying to get the one that comes after mother Giselle, but he keeps calling my inq old friend, and not the "well the rumors are...". Any ideas? Edit: I figured it out nvm

[SentinelMacDeath]

HEY GUYS.

 

Since I've been stalking Mr Rech ever since he came up in Dorian discussions I saw this today, his Instagram is [delightfully] NSFW.

 

i read about it on FB! What a time to be alive! Rafa cosplaying Dorian ... a dream come true

[TwixMix]

What does it mean that Dorian's greatest fear is "temptation" (from the tombstone in the fade)?

And does anyone have any music that reminds of Dorian or the inq/dorian relationship?

[Melbella]

Blood magic is rampant in Tevinter, and in order to get ahead, one always "needs more." I would say he's afraid the time will come when nothing else will work and he has no choice* but to do the same. Just like his father did.

 

For music, I have "Chasing Cars" by Snow Patrol as my official Dorian-mance song.

 

 

*yes, there is always a choice

[Trophonius]

HEY GUYS.

Since I've been stalking Mr Rech ever since he came up in Dorian discussions I saw this today, his Instagram is [delightfully] NSFW.

If that cosplay actually happens, I'll be sure to buy at least 500 copies of his photoshoots as Dorian.

[Gervaise]

Actually Dorian's fear of temptation links in with something that Fenris said in DA2.   You can say to him that surely not every mage in Tevinter is bad and he admits that there probably are some good mages who don't do blood magic, but how many times do you have to be offered temptation before you succumb.   (I'm paraphrasing).       In Dorian's case he has the example of his father and Alexius of how a good mage can go wrong, plus probably many other mages he knew over the years; each with their own particular breaking point.   It doesn't even have to be blood magic but just compromising your principles, although I do think blood magic is his chief fear.   With Tevinter mainland coming under renewed attack from the Qunari and his burning desire to save his country, plus his determination to find and kill his father's murderers, Dorian's greatest test may yet be to come. 

[TwixMix]

Was Dorian in DA2?

[GoldenGail3]

Was Dorian in DA2?

Nope!

[Melbella]

Actually Dorian's fear of temptation links in with something that Fenris said in DA2.   You can say to him that surely not every mage in Tevinter is bad and he admits that there probably are some good mages who don't do blood magic, but how many times do you have to be offered temptation before you succumb.   (I'm paraphrasing).       In Dorian's case he has the example of his father and Alexius of how a good mage can go wrong, plus probably many other mages he knew over the years; each with their own particular breaking point.   It doesn't even have to be blood magic but just compromising your principles, although I do think blood magic is his chief fear.   With Tevinter mainland coming under renewed attack from the Qunari and his burning desire to save his country, plus his determination to find and kill his father's murderers, Dorian's greatest test may yet be to come.

He does say he would do anything. 

[nightscrawl]

Actually Dorian's fear of temptation links in with something that Fenris said in DA2.   You can say to him that surely not every mage in Tevinter is bad and he admits that there probably are some good mages who don't do blood magic, but how many times do you have to be offered temptation before you succumb.   (I'm paraphrasing).       In Dorian's case he has the example of his father and Alexius of how a good mage can go wrong, plus probably many other mages he knew over the years; each with their own particular breaking point.   It doesn't even have to be blood magic but just compromising your principles, although I do think blood magic is his chief fear.   With Tevinter mainland coming under renewed attack from the Qunari and his burning desire to save his country, plus his determination to find and kill his father's murderers, Dorian's greatest test may yet be to come. 

 

Spot on. David Gaider uses many of the same phrases across characters when talking about Tevinter and blood magic, so I did find it interesting that there were quite a few similarities between remarks from Fenris and Dorian.

 

 

He does say he would do anything. 

 

What is the fear that Nightmare taunts him with? That of being his father. And I don't think Dorian would EVER hurt anyone he cared about the way Halward hurt him. Also, it may be that fear of temptation will be one of the factors that helps him to resist it when it finally does come along.

 

I understand that my view of Dorian is biased, but I think he gives himself too little credit.

 

Even the post-Mythal dialogue starts off with self-disparagement that is contrary to actual events: "All my talk of how terribly wrong things are back home, but what do I do about it? Nothing." But during his post- In Hushed Whispers recruitment dialogue, he says that he can do more for his country "here" [in the South], by helping to stop the Elder One, and also has similar remarks during the first Skyhold dialogue. So I really think that Dorian does himself a disservice. It's a personality trait of his that you really need to watch out for. There are several lines throughout the game that indicate that he doesn't have a high opinion of his own self-worth**, particularly in the eyes of others, and also that he expects to be disappointed by those he has put his trust in; understandable, considering his history.

 

As for that specific line in the post-Mythal conversation, I took it to be a reference to sacrificing his current happiness -- regardless of friend OR romance status -- and new relationships he's formed in the South, and also the knowledge that this will be no easy task. "Anything" doesn't necessarily have to include resorting to the use of blood magic. Also, that would kind of defeat the point, since that can be viewed as symbolic of the type of corruption that is harming his beloved country.

 

 

** Even though I dislike the options for their lack of nuance, this is one reason I don't feel too bad about taking the "I need you" option during this dialogue.

[TwixMix]

Another question... what are the reasons Dorian leaves for tevinter, aside from what Abelas says? I'm pretty sure that the tevinter/elf history is only revealed after asking him what happened, which you can skip. So does he reveal it later or does Dorian come up with a different reason?

[nightscrawl]

^ The post-Mythal conversation is the only opportunity you have to talk about it in any great detail. Afterward, and during the party, he only says that he will stay or go, and his response will vary slightly based on your relationship with him and what you chose during that dialogue.

 

But the information reveal at the temple isn't really the reason he wants to return, it's merely the impetus for his decision. Throughout the entire game he refers to Tevinter as his "home," and makes references to missing it and being "homesick." Despite his relationship with the Inquisitor, no matter what that relationship is, it should not be a surprise to anyone that he wants to go home to help his homeland in any way that he can. It is VERY important to him.

[Gervaise]

It also emphasises why giving you the crystal  is so important, whether as a lover or a friend, because you have been his inspiration to go back and try to change things and keeping that link helps keep him strong.    It actually confirms as much in the epilogue.     I imagine that sometimes it is enough that he can simply hold the crystal and think about you, without actually having to activate it, though I imagine hearing his lover/friend is so much better.    It is the fact that he absolutely knows he can trust you which makes such a difference and why he says the Inquisitor is his one and only friend; he is friendly with other people in Tevinter but I suspect he never feels he can wholly trust them.   While the bond with his lover is even more significant since he never even thought such a relationship was possible before he met you.