22176 réponses à ce sujet

[TwixMix]

Well I just got my heart ripped to shreds.

Spoiler

Bull: Red told us what happened with your hand.
Dorian: Why didn't you say something? I could have... I don't know, something!
Inquisitor: (solemnly) Whatever happens, I wouldn't trade the years we've had together for anything.
Inquisitor: I love you.
Dorian: (near crying) I knew you would break my heart, you bloody bastard.

Bull: It's been an honor to kick asses beside you all. Anaan.
Cassandra: Thank you... all of you.

 

Please kill me so I no longer feel

[nightscrawl]

^ Yeah... I really like his emotion in that scene. I head-canon some extra dialogue, but the actual game version is pretty great, and is pretty close to what my guy might actually say. I also like that the Inquisitor has the option to say that he loves him, as well.

[Gervaise]

That was a bitter sweet high point for me too.   I finally got to say I loved him and then the heartbreak in his response, plus at that time it did seem to be killing me and for all I knew it could all be about to be snatched away from us.     To be honest, I was so glad they only took my arm because I couldn't bear the thought of a devastated Dorian being left bereft of his Amatus.    It's a shame that we still have to spend much of our time apart but we still do have one another and at least the epilogue does confirm that we do keep in constant contact, plus the Inquisitor is rumoured at occasionally being seen on the streets of Minrathous.    In my mind these visits occur far more frequently and last far longer than people are aware of; my lad is working in the shadows but he is still there.

[HurraFTP]

 Dorian is casting barrier...

 

[nightscrawl]

^ Very nice! Cotton and ram leather? Pretty combination. And is that metal thing on the left someone else's weapon?

[HurraFTP]

^ Very nice! Cotton and ram leather? Pretty combination. And is that metal thing on the left someone else's weapon?

 

Cotton and ram leather, indeed! I take this shot very early in a cave in the Hinterlands, at that point the choice for materials is a bit limited. I tend to prefer fennec fur for leather but i'm a bit reluctant to chase them down....

For the metal thing, I think it's a part of his staff. He carries the "Encore" staff with a dragon blade and a grip attached.

 

As far as armor customisation goes, in my last PT, I was trying to stay close to the original color scheme for each companion (well, most of the time). For Dorian, I replaced silk with cotton (silk is a bit too shiny for myn taste) so later in game he looked like this:

 

 

Maybe i'll do this again this time... (this battlemage mail with the big "belt" (?) on his torso and shoulder suits him so well!)
 

[nightscrawl]

Yes, I know I will be causing angst in the thread with this, but it's relevant, I guess.

 

Some tweets from DG's recent GaymerX panel...

Tanya D. @ #GX3 ‏@cypheroftyr

Audience member asked what their OTP is. @davidgaider said #Adoribull

Ashe @ GX3 ‏@ladyinsanity

David Gaider's OTP: Maric and Loghain, but for Inquisition definitely Iron Bull and Dorian. #adoribull #DragonAge

 

And also...

Ashe @ GX3 ‏@ladyinsanity

Dorian scene with his father was moment in all of Gaider's career that made him..speechless? Difficult & personal, close to home. #DragonAge

 

 

And just so some of you aren't feeling too left out, some of the IB romancers are also somewhat upset by the whole thing. I read one forum post a while back from a Bull-mancer stating that they felt that their Inquisitor was "standing in the way of true love," which I thought incredibly sad. And perhaps this is petty of me, but a part of me does wonder whether (one reason) he chose to say that was because of some of the backlash the pairing got in the first place. DG appears to like to goad people (as Dorian does), but then again I don't actually know him, so perhaps that is simply unfair.

 

At any rate, I will say that it's important to remember that Dragon Age will (most likely, 99.99% sure) continue to import choices, so it's not like you will ever have your Inquisitor/Dorian relationship destroyed in favor of Dorian/Bull.

[Hazegurl]

I'm not surprised one bit.  What Gaider usually considers canon is not anything I would choose personally so this is just another item I can add to that list. I don't think anyone should avoid experiencing the romances based on someone else's head canon, writer or not.  If we all avoided relationships IRL based on the possibility that our partners would be better off with someone else then we would never have relationships. It would just be a world full of people avoiding falling in love on some preconceived notion that the other person would be happier with someone else. Not a very healthy outlook.

 

But it does suck to think the only two M/M options could have been more into each other than with you (if you see it that way based on Gaider's opinion and the Movember ads, Trespasser DLC et al) which could be the place some people are coming from.

 

If they are trying, in some way, to make Dorian and Bull canon then the least they could have done was make Cullen a M/M option though.  My IQ would have been all over that blondie.

 

Actually, I might start my Gay Cullen run soon. I've been thinking of it for a while now but I've been deep into TW3 and Fallout for a while and now I'm coming up for air and ready to play something else for a bit.

[HurraFTP]

I think that David Gaider and Patrick Weekes had great fun writing this Adoribull romance. Good for them, I suppose...thing is: the writers, sometimes, seem to underestimate how much people are invested into their character and into the romance that they choose to play.

Not directly Dragon Age or Dorian related but a friend of mine posted a song on Facebook this morning. The singer was Tanita Tirakam, Ramon Tikaram's sister.
People of the Tikaram family have beautiful voices apparently

http://www.qthemusic...table-premiere/

[nightscrawl]

But it does suck to think the only two M/M options could have been more into each other than with you (if you see it that way based on Gaider's opinion and the Movember ads, Trespasser DLC et al) which could be the place some people are coming from.

I think this is exactly the place.

The problem as I see it is that the writers either don't seem to realize (which I doubt), don't seem to care, or don't think it should matter, what affect their opinion of their character has on the player. So it does come off rather as "this is the person so-and-so is supposed to be with, regardless of the other options available to them (that is, the Inquisitor)."

 

I just wish they hadn't said anything at all, to be honest. /shrug

 

I mean, of course they're people and have their own opinion and are entitled to that. But David Gaider's view of Dorian, and Patrick Weekes's view of Iron Bull carry more weight than say, my own view of those two, simply because they are their writers.

 

 

At any rate, I'm done with the issue for now. Sorry for stirring the pot again.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 17 décembre 2015 - 06:27 .

[TwixMix]

Honestly, I don't really believe that. I mean sure they may have said that, but if he was supposed to be with bull then wouldn't he have been unavailable? I mean Dorian has literally one option if the inquisitor isn't in a romance with him, and that is bull. So saying he has limited options is putting it VERY midly. I don't see the bull/dorian relationship being anything more than a one night fling, because dorian needs that "real" relationship, as in not just physical, which is what it mainly is for Bull(there's hardly a scene in the bull/inq romance where it isn't sexual, and bull rarely says anything to dorian that's not sexual). Like that's literally the entire romance plot with Dorian, he wants something more than just fun. (I hardly see him killing a dragon for bull anyways but hey, maybe bull doesn't actually care or maybe it doesn't even happen who knows) He also hates the mindless following of the Qun, and Bull hates Tevinter radicals. I mean if Bull let's the Chargers die(and they're in a relationship), he TRIES TO KILL DORIAN FIRST. Lol its fucked up. If Dorian stays with Bull, he gets kidnapped and tortured by Venatori. Either way, Dorian doesn't come out on top in that relationship. Imo, Dorian isn't a helpless fawn that needs saving, he's skeptical of love, but strong, and I love the relationship he has with the Inquisitor. This is a man who was all wishy-washy when talking about the relationship and the future, and a year or two later openly says he loves the inquisitor. Just because the writers say it was supposed to happen doesn't mean it should, and this is a perfect example. I don't think I could ever do a playthrough without romancing dorian because I know it's just going to end badly for him if I don't.

Just my two cents, but it's so impossible for me to even see them getting along together in the same room. Like maybe he was supposed to be with bull, but that doesn't mean it was a better relationship? I haven't seen what the writers said but it sounds really shitty so I don't even wanna hear it.

[Hazegurl]

@Nightscrawl, Don't apologize for bringing it up, it's a good topic and if we can't express ourselves here then where can we?

 

I do agree that many people hold the writer's word as law even for an rpg with choices, unfortunately.  I've heard so many people bring up the writer's opinion as fact just to try and shut the other side up and usually it works because hey it's the writer saying this so it must be true regardless of the choices given ingame.  I try hard not to fall into that trap because if I do then my entire series play through would be worthless to me because I can literally count on one hand the choices Gaider has written as canon that is no where near my worldstate.

 

IMO, I think the writers should have remained silent as well.

 

@TwixMix, I agree as well.  I'm not fond of the Dorian/Bull thing, Dorian comes across as weak sauce during the entire thing and Bull's version of pillow talk to blab about Dorian's underwear to everyone.  But apparently it's written so that Dorian loves it so, idk.  I call it Bipolar character development.  BW has a thing for writing characters based on whatever theme  they have going on rather than develop them naturally and consistently. 

 

 

A bit of a rant about the inconsistent writing.

 

So with the IQ Dorian is looking for a long term relationship and wants more than sex but with Bull it's sex sex sex and he's totally cool with that too and this is before Trespasser (before we see that it is long term).  If the IQ wants to keep it as just fun and sex Dorian doesn't like it and walk away with his feelings hurt, but with Bull, fun friends with benefits sex is all good.    Bull apparently hates it when the IQ wants to keep him a secret, enough to dump him but he ain't letting that Tevinter booty go.  It's no wonder the IB fan thinks they're standing in the couple's way. lol!! Dorian is smart and able to call BS when he sees it while with the IQ, with Bull he's a moron who would consider allowing Qun Bull into his country.  With the IQ he doesn't have allergies, with Bull he has allergies. lol!! I swear. This is why I don't praise the writers as much as other people do. And why I tend to prefer the Mass Effect romances over the DA ones. Even when they lock the gay option until the third game.

[TwixMix]

@Hazegurl

Daaamn I had no idea it was that bad. I can see from a storytelling standpoint why they would want dorian and bull to be together- it's essentially half the entire plot if the next game(besides solas). The qunari attacking the tevinter imperium, and then there's this relationship embodiment of the war. The longer I think about it, the more I'm glad dorian/bull isn't on any worldstate of mine. Dorian/inq seems to be more of Dorian finding himself and progressing him forward while supporting the inq(a healthy relationship imo), while dorian/bull is like... not that lol like let's do our own thing and forget the rest and all our problems weee

Also "tevinter booty" made me laugh lol

[TwixMix]

Also how can an RPG/game with choices even have a canon xD? Isnt that just basically the first set of options they wrote?

[nightscrawl]

Also how can an RPG/game with choices even have a canon xD? Isnt that just basically the first set of options they wrote?

 

Well it's not so much of an actual canon as sort of a default world state. For example, if you look at the DA Keep, you will see the default world states for all three games. The default Warden is a female Dalish warrior that made the Ultimate Sacrifice, Hawke is a male mage, and the Inquisitor is a male Trevelyan warrior. Also, most of them have the most minimal amount of information. There are no romances, hardly any voluntary companions are recruited (no Dorian, Bull, Blackwall, Sera, or Vivienne), no completed follower quests, limited side quest completion, you aren't friends with any companions, and so on. Just the bare bones information that would make for an import state.

 

Because there are these various choices, like the ruler of Ferelden, they have to have some sort of default to fall back on for certain scenes. Whether because a player didn't import their own choices, or only imported some choices, but something has to be there. Let's just take one scene: the cinematic right after you defeat Alexius during In Hushed Whispers and the ruler of Ferelden appears. This is a fixed scene that happens. There IS a ruler, the question remains to decide who that ruler is. You can import a world state wither either Alistair or Anora or both, but if you choose the default world state both of them are ruling -- and in that case I'm not sure which show up during In Hushed Whispers, I'm assuming Alistair, as he also appears under the same circumstances in DA2.

 

Also in DAI is the issue of the Warden contact, and there are contingencies for each possible scenario. For the default world state, Loghain was executed by the Warden, leaving Alistiar to be king alongside Anora. As neither of them are available to be the Warden contact, that role falls to Stroud.

 

There is also a minimal canon that has to be the basis for static ancillary materials. In the first run of comics, David Gaider had Alistair be the King, apparently ruling alone. In the Asunder novel, both Wynne and Shale were recruited in DAO, and remained alive after DAO despite the various other fates they can have.

[TwixMix]

Huh yeah that makes sense. I didn't know there could be a different warden instead of stroud. I did the dragon age keep before I played inquisition and just kinda... guessed what I'd do based on the description, but yknow in the moment who knows what I would've done. I had both Alistair and Anora rule, and they both walked in after that scene, sharing the dialogue most likely.

[nightscrawl]

^ In DAI those are the two best examples where the choices have an impact on something in the game that you can actually see and experience. Some of Hawke's dialogue also falls in with this.

 

As for the Warden, yes you can have either Loghain, Alistair, or Stroud based on your import. If Alistair did the Dark Ritual with Morrigan there is a special dialogue between them if he is a Warden (but only then).

 

Also, you can't really ignore ancillary materials completely, as those facts do get incorporated into the games. There was a bunch of stuff from Asunder, including a full companion companion (Cole) and war table operation with the other characters. In addition, that in a way is overriding the player's import, because Cole will have a dialogue were he talks of Rhys's mother's (Wynne from DAO) death, who again, can actually be dead according to player import**. And of course most of the important stuff from The Masked Empire got incorporated.

 

There was also the minimal banter between Varric and Bull where Varric states that he's met the (new) Arishok, which happened in the comics.

 

Varric: You know, I met the Arishok.
Iron Bull: Oh, the old one? Man, he had an impressive rack. The new Arishok doesn't have horns at all. Usually means they're destined for something special.
Varric: I met him too. The only thing they seem to have in common is a tendency to burn things.
Iron Bull: That pretty much sums up the antaam, yes.

 

 

 

** However, this can be hand-waved away, along with her appearance in Asunder due to her special circumstances. And no, I don't count decapitation as a gamey combat finisher move part of anyone's canon.

[nightscrawl]

Back to Dorian with an odd question...

 

Dorian is a swarthy guy, which is one reason I find him hot. But there are two types of swarthy: fine and coarse. For example, some lean toward the fine side, and have minimal body hair, whereas others have less. This goes for facial hair as well.

 

So, my question is whether you all think Dorian is the type of have 5 o'clock shadow? I'm not really sure, to be honest. I think he could go either way, but I am leaning more toward the fine side, rather than coarse. And if he is on the fine side, I'd imagine he would be quite pissed if he had to shave off his 'stache for some reason: "It took me ages to get it to this marvelous state!"

 

 

 

(This isn't limited to men of course, but as Dorian is a man, well... there you go.)

 

Just fyi, I purposely tried to keep real-world racial and ethnic descriptors out of this. Not only do I not like to stereotype (even as I fall into one), but I dislike doing too much comparison of Thedas to the real world.

[TwixMix]

You mean hypothetically? I think it would have to be really finely groomed like with sharp angles for him to consider it. And that takes a lot of work if you have limited tools, which I would guess he might. I think if he could grow something like that, he would or has. There's also a high possibility that his facial hair grows in a very "dirty" way, like messy. So if he grew it out he'd look like Don Draper up top and elephant man down below with the hair difference. Like for some ppl they can shave and never get rid of the shadow, and for others they can't even grow significant hair on certain parts of their face, so there could also be that. But assuming he *can* grow hair like Blackwall, I doubt he would as facial hair often feels very unclean and annoying af. Takes a lot of maintenance. Dorian very clearly maintains that stache very well. But if he grew out the rest, it would look out of place and therefore he'd have to shave it, which I'm like 90% sure he'd never do lol

Tl;dr: 8.5/10 he wouldn't grow it out.

[nightscrawl]

Well I'm not asking if he'd grow it out, but rather if his hair type is the sort to be very dark, giving him a 5 o'clock shadow. Like, some guys look like they need a shave right after they've shaved, or even just a few hours later. I'd imagine that if he were that type he would probably shave again before going to a ball or something.

 

Lol... now I have this thing in my head of everyone getting ready for the ball at Halamshiral and Dorian doing a quick shave before putting that hideous outfit on.

 

As for any facial hair, I head-canon this look from the concept art, which I think is gorgeous and sexy as hell. I love how the front view has his cheekbones framed by the top line. Must be annoying to maintain though.

 

Spoiler

[LorenzEffect]

When I first saw a picture of Dorian, I thought his moustache looked utterly ridiculous. Then I met him in the game and I realised it suits him perfectly. Now when I see pictures of Dorian shaved, they just look strange to me.

[Hazegurl]

@Hazegurl

Daaamn I had no idea it was that bad. I can see from a storytelling standpoint why they would want dorian and bull to be together- it's essentially half the entire plot if the next game(besides solas). The qunari attacking the tevinter imperium, and then there's this relationship embodiment of the war. The longer I think about it, the more I'm glad dorian/bull isn't on any worldstate of mine. Dorian/inq seems to be more of Dorian finding himself and progressing him forward while supporting the inq(a healthy relationship imo), while dorian/bull is like... not that lol like let's do our own thing and forget the rest and all our problems weee

Also "tevinter booty" made me laugh lol

lol!!!  Yeah I agree.  I prefer Dorian with a more healthy and strong mindset.  I just think it's silly that Gaider seems to want to act like fans who think something is wrong with the IB/Dorian thing are somehow out of whack or something when it's his own inconsistent writing  that's at fault for the most part.  I also don't have them together in any worldstate of mine. Most of what I know comes from reading other people's opinions about the relationship.  I hate that I even know some of this because it just makes Dorian look like a poorly written character.  I still love him though. 

 

Right now I'm in a bit of a dilemma that I've never considered before.  I just started my gay romance with Cullen run and plan to have IB and Dorian recruited, but I don't know if I want the IB/Dorian romance triggered or not.  On one hand I don't want anything to do with it, but on the other, I like the idea of Dorian being in love my with my IQ who is his best friend and he has a fling with Bull to try and get over it.  Then of course Bull betrays us and tries to kill him in Trespasser. So much angst.    

 

@Nightscrawl, I think the default Inquisitor is a human female warrior.  But you pretty much nailed how the game, books, comics treat the worldstates.

 

As for Dorian's facial hair. Yeah I think he would have a pretty dark 5 o'clock.  He looks like the type that would judging by how thick his stache is.  Some men can't grow facial hair properly at all. My brother is one of them. He can't get a stache to save his life and he's tried. 

 

And that concept art work. I honestly don't like Dorian with the in game facial hair but I dig his facial hair in most of his concept artwork.  I don't know why BW didn't keep the look. 

[Gervaise]

The disappointing thing about the Dorian/Iron Bull relationship is that people were pairing them off before the game came out simply because of the fact that Dorian was gay and IB was bisexual.   I thought at the time, why does that have to be?     Then that is exactly what the writers did with them.    Now I wouldn't let IB anywhere near my Inquisitor and since I look out for Dorian as a friend, even when I don't romance him I don't ever let them be together enough for it to happen.  If it turns out that Tal-Vashoth IB (and no Dorian romance for Inquisitor) automatically means Dorian relationship in the next game, then I shall simply alter the keep so I either never recruit IB or don't do his personal quest (in which case he will be dead same as if you sacrifice the Chargers, which I won't do).

 

What they end up with in Trespasser seem exactly what Dorian didn't want; a relationship he can never admit to and has to keep hidden from everyone back in Tevinter.   He has to sneak off down to the border, risking himself in the process, in order to see IB and then when the latter does save his hide, he still keeps tight lipped about it.   Now I wouldn't be surprised if the Magisters don't have a few Tal Vashoth around the place.   In fact I'd would think they'd come in handy, knowing as they do Qunari fighting methods and hating the Qun, but of course that is the problem, IB doesn't hate the Qun and he certainly doesn't like Tevinter or Vints generally.   So Dorian has got involved with someone who isn't really invested in his desire to save his country and who he can never admit to.    What happened to all his fine speeches about that?    

 

There is definitely not the same relationship he has with the Inquisitor, even as a friend.    After all, it is still the Inquisitor who would have reconciled, or at least supported him, when confronting his father, not Bull.    It is the Inquisitor who continues to be his source of strength to keep going with the lucerni and trying to redeem his country, not Bull.    It is the Inquisitor that Dorian describes as his one, true friend.   So what exactly is Bull?    In some ways it is like they wrote one story concerning Dorian and the Inquisitor (whether as a friend or a lover) and then a totally separate story about a different Dorian when it comes to Bull.

 

There is something else I picked up on with regard to Dorian and Iron Bull and that is when Bull says that Dorian is the first mage he has been with and that the "other night he became so excited he set light to the curtains".    That had me horrified because an experienced mage like Dorian wouldn't accidentally set things on fire, though of course Bull wouldn't know that.    When I don't play elves, I play mages and I don't recall it ever being suggested that we get so worked up in a fit of sexual passion that we lose control of our magic.   In fact the only time an experienced mage would do that would be under extreme duress, either experiencing severe emotional or physical distress.   So what in the hell was Bull doing to Dorian to make him react in that way?    No only that, but if Dorian wasn't in control of his magic, then he wasn't in control of his mind, which would leave it open to the risk of possession (since demons are always hovering around watching for an opportunity to dive in).    So whatever Bull was doing to Dorian was risking the welfare of Dorian, himself and the whole castle.    Yet it is presented as being a funny anecdote.    I do wonder sometimes if the writers really think about the implications of what they write for the characters in the setting they are in but simply get carried away (as DG and PW seem to have done) with their own role playing.

[HurraFTP]

    I do wonder sometimes if the writers really think about the implications of what they write for the characters in the setting they are in but simply get carried away (as DG and PW seem to have done) with their own role playing.

 

This.

Really, it looks like a case of "Oh, t'was fun, let's put this in the game".

On the other hand, I think they care about LGBT representation and are trying to "promote" it with the Adoribull pairing.
Problem 1: it's not logical in regards of their own writing
Problem 2: it happens somewhat at the depends of the players who like/want to play as a gay character.

[Hazegurl]

I think that David Gaider and Patrick Weekes had great fun writing this Adoribull romance. Good for them, I suppose...thing is: the writers, sometimes, seem to underestimate how much people are invested into their character and into the romance that they choose to play.

Not directly Dragon Age or Dorian related but a friend of mine posted a song on Facebook this morning. The singer was Tanita Tirakam, Ramon Tikaram's sister.
People of the Tikaram family have beautiful voices apparently

http://www.qthemusic...table-premiere/

I just got around to listening to this, omg what a good song and awesome voice, someone has just been added to my spotify.  What a talented family. Thanks for posting this!

 

@Gervaise, That's the type of inconsistency I'm talking about.  It's like Dorian is two completely different people based on who he romances and we're supposed to just think that Dorian gets the same thing out of both relationships when they each provide something entirely different to the point of total contradiction.

 

I think the curtains on fire stuff is all about showcasing IB as some sort of Pan sex God more than it is about Dorian.  But you do raise a good point, a Mage not in control of their magic is a mage who is leaving themselves open to possession.   I do like the idea of magic being used in the bedroom though. I picture my mage IQ and Dorian having fun with it, but I've never pictured them being in a state that they endanger the lives of everyone in Skyhold.  But Dorian/Bull is fast becoming such a Sue pairing to the point where I'm sure if Dorian does get possessed IB would enter the fade, fight off a thousand demons, and rescue him. lol!