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[nightscrawl]

Love him to death. I didn't say "I love you" to Zevran,I didn't go hiding with Anders at the very end,but I said "I love you,Dorian" to him in Trespasser DLC...he's just so damn adorable!

The way he emotes in that scene was really amazing; all the barriers come down and he's just afraid of losing the man he loves. My head-canon for that scene is a bit more involved, but I did really like what the Inquisitor said for the option.


From your post-count, you seem new. Welcome to the Dorian thread! It can be a bit slow at times as most of the topics are pretty talked out by the regular crew here, but feel free raise issues of your own. Or you know, just gush about our favorite mage. That's fine too. :3

[JJ Likeaprayer]

Wow,thanks for the love! I've been playing DA and ME games since....09 I guess? But I've never been a forum guy,thanks for the love again! 

[ComedicSociopathy]

The great thing about that line from Dorian is that the Inquisitor can act bewildered and ask how that's even a problem in Tevinter. 

 

It made me smile. 

[nightscrawl]

I was just looking back at all the Bioware posts in the thread. I think it's unfortunate that there were none after September 2014, almost two months before the release of the game. So we never got any responses to anything after the players actually got to experience Dorian. That's quite a shame, particularly as I noticed that David did pop into the Fenris thread on occasion.

 

Oddly, I think this is one of the companion threads that has had some of the most meaningful discussion over the course of the thread's lifetime. So many of the others tend to get bogged down with successive postings of fanworks and such. While those are nice, I tend to find those less enjoyable than actually talking/writing about the character I like so much, and the back-and-forth I've had with the other posters.

[Mistic]

To be honest, I really don't understand people's desire to make him Archon** or the "Black" Divine. He didn't even want to be a magister. He would be totally effing miserable. Oh, I don't doubt that he would go through with it if he thought the personal sacrifice was worthwhile for his country, but I don't think it would be a good thing for him. He also might think that being raised to either role would be the death knell for his relationship, regardless of who that is with.

 

DA:O and DA:I tell the message that no matter your personal feelings about it, the right person for the job should do the right job. If PC can be miserable about their station, no NPC should be safe either. Dragon Age games have so far offered that option and it's up to the player to enforce the moral or not. It's not as if the thrones of Ferelden and Orlais and the position of Divine had only one candidate. If there's the option to make Dorian the Black Divine, I'm pretty sure there will be an option not to.

 

Personally, I think that Dorian would make a great Divine precisely because he doesn't want to be so. Given that Tevinter is full of murderous upstarts and corrupt nobles that would do whatever is needed to achieve the power they crave, I'd prefer another kind of candidate as the spiritual guide of the Imperium. We at least know that Dorian is sincerely Andrastian.

 

** Yes, I know this is supposedly not an option any longer.

 

Now I'm intrigued. Why Archon is not an option any longer?

[nightscrawl]

I was primarily referring to the glee that some people suggest the idea with. I don't doubt the he would perform either function admirably, but knowing that he would be miserable rather takes away from the, "Yes! Dorian got to be Archon!" type of reaction for me.
 
And sorry, but, "If PC can be miserable about their station, no NPC should be safe either," is a terrible attitude. I'm not naive enough to think that everyone gets a happy ending, but I don't begrudge those who do.
 
 
Also, he isn't eligible to be Archon because he is now a magister. The Archon appoints his own successor from those outside the Magisterium and Imperial Chantry. Given Dorian's poor reputation in the Imperium, and the falling out his father had with the Archon, even if he weren't a magister, it isn't likely that the Archon would look on him very favorably. And this is in addition to his working with the Inquisition, an unpopular organization, and being a leader in an upstart political party. If the Archon were assassinated by someone and there was no appointed successor, the Magisterium would likely vote on someone, and I guarantee that wouldn't be Dorian either.
 
It's also unlikely that he will be the "Black" Divine, since those are risen from the priesthood. Dorian would have to join the Chantry and rise through the ranks in order for that to happen. However, there is precedent for a non-cleric in that Urian Nihalias was a magister who became the Black Divine in 9:27 Dragon after a coup against his predecessor (according to DAwiki, they don't list a source for that one).
 
I suppose they could use the special plot power of the PC to enable either choice, but it would still be a stretch and go against established lore for the setting. So that would be a case of letting the player have too much power when they shouldn't be able to. How can we possibly come down from a PC as powerful as the Inquisitor? There is only so much influence a PC can wield without it seeming absurd. In DAO our Warden nobody was able to influence the Landsmeet only because they were part of a particular organization and there was a larger threat. The Inquisitor was able to influence the Divine, but that was more appropriate for the person, and even then the war table operation for supporting whoever woman makes it clear that you can show your support, but the Clerics will vote how they please.
 
I'm actually hoping that our PC is not a leader-type at all, rather like Neverwinter Nights. A competent person who can get things done, certainly, but they don't have to run everything.

 

If there's the option to make Dorian the Black Divine, I'm pretty sure there will be an option not to.

This is not necessarily true. The choice for Divine is influenced by player decisions throughout the game and you don't have to actually support a candidate on the war table in order for them to be elected. I've gotten Leliana as Divine several times and never specifically supported her simply because I went about playing the game according to my role-play. Only in my most recent play did I make specific choices to have Cassandra crowned Divine. So while the choice is influenced by the player, it's not a direct choice that the player has specific control over. Unlike, say, the Landsmeet where the player has specific, direct control over that entire situation.

[Gervaise]

The story about the current Black Divine Urian can be found in World of Thedas 2 under the entry for Lord Seeker Lambert, who was involved in the coup.   This ties in with what he says about the Divine himself in Asunder.  He might have been a non-cleric but he got the position through violence and then maintained himself in it through blood magic.   Neither of which I think would particularly appeal to Dorian.   He believes in the Maker but I don't think he has faith in the Black Chantry any more than he does the White.

 

I think that his father was definitely working on the Archon to nominate Dorian as his successor, which is why one of his rivals says he was boasting about the possibility.   However, Dorian's antics caused his father to fall out of favour.  We don't know that the Archon didn't approve of the Inquisition.   He did make a personal request for action on his behalf, although you could have sided with Nevarra if you preferred.   What we do know is that the Magisterium wanted it disbanded, which doesn't necessarily amount to the same thing.   For all we know the Archon could privately be in favour of Dorian's stance on stamping out corruption, it is just he can't show it publicly.

 

I'll be rather disappointed if once again we will be influencing the appointment of the head of organisations in DA4, particularly as the current structure is so entrenched in Tevinter.   Still we had the absurdity of being able to blackmail Gaspard into being Briala's puppet, so who knows?   Of course the next game could also encompass either Nevarra or the Anderfels, both places where there is a power struggle going on and the current ruler is on the way out, so I suppose we could have a say there.

 

I agree I'd rather our next PC is involved less with politics and more with getting things done and making new discoveries.   The origins of humans in Thedas is pretty vague, so it would be good to be able to fill in a bit of detail there.   Since Tevinter is the cradle of human civilisation we ought to be able to turn up something there to prove or disprove what we have previously been told. Seems only fair after having fleshed out so much elven lore and even had something new about dwarven history.    I don't count Corypheus because in a way he didn't prove or disprove anything; merely confirmed that he did go to the Black City.

 

Of course if we had the odd side quest to help Dorian out, I wouldn't object, but having too much influence over the success of his venture would actually take away from Dorian's own efforts.   It would be rather disappointing that Dorian wanted to do things for himself only for the new PC to swoop in and make him redundant.

[nightscrawl]

We don't know that the Archon didn't approve of the Inquisition. He did make a personal request for action on his behalf, although you could have sided with Nevarra if you preferred. What we do know is that the Magisterium wanted it disbanded, which doesn't necessarily amount to the same thing. For all we know the Archon could privately be in favour of Dorian's stance on stamping out corruption, it is just he can't show it publicly.

Yes, but I was primarily referring to the Inquisition's lack of popularity in general, not whether the Archon dislikes it. And if he does not, well then he's an ungrateful SOB as far as my plays are concerned.

 

I'm quite curious to see how the Archon will be presented in the comic. It is certainly true that he may want the Venatori stamped out because they are a threat to his own power, but he may also have a real concern. The recently released preview pages seem to show the latter, but it's hard to tell for certain. I'd have to see more interaction than that to determine whether he is being genuine or not.

 

 

100% agree with everything else you said.

[xblkdragonx]

Hello! New here. I was wondering if some of you lovely people could help me with a question in regards to Dorian x IQ. I've read up on Dorian's bio and it says that "there is also indication in game banter the [Inquisitor and Dorian] may be married already." I've searched and looked, and the only indication I can find is that when Dorian mentions about it being like a second honeymoon when he's in the IQ party during Trespasser. I felt that was said more in jest than any real indication that they are married. Are there more clues that I missed that indicated more about their marital status? Because prior to this moment, the IQ had a convo with Cassandra about marriage, and though the IQ considered the idea, he wasn't planning to propose then and there.

 

Still, I find it rather bittersweet that if they did get married after Trespasser but spent time apart due the whole Tevinter/Solas thing.

[Gervaise]

So far as I am aware, the marriage assumption is based off that comment in Trespasser about a second honeymoon, which I took to be simply a joke on Dorian's part, particularly if he had heard about Varric's wind up of Cassandra.    In my case I had the conversation with Cassandra about marriage (which took me totally by surprise because I'd thought the Devs said there wouldn't be any marriages in DAI) and then went back to talk with Dorian having told her I might well propose, only to be met by a farewell party because he is returning to Tevinter for good.    So I wasn't too happy with the writers because the joke was on me not Cassandra.   (It is even worse if you romance Solas).    Plus if we were on our second honeymoon, then we would have to have got married back before the Exalted Council, which would make the whole marriage conversation meaningless.   

 

However, that said, Dorian does say "there will always be an us" and "you are the man I love", which is near enough a wedding vow, so who needs an official ceremony?   Have to admit just a tinge of jealousy for Sera though.  When she proposes the Inquisitor can say that marriage is all about titles and inheritance but Sera dismisses that idea because marriage can mean what they want it to.    Totally agree.    Still I have an elven Inquisitor, so he wouldn't recognise a Chantry sanctioned ceremony anyway.   He's bonded for life in the traditions of his people and in my head canon exchanged simple vows with Dorian according to his own customs.    Come to think of it, I don't suppose Dorian would recognise a southern Chantry sanctioned ceremony either.   If there is a Maker watching over us, as Dorian believes, then he would be aware of our commitment to one another.

[Mistic]

I was primarily referring to the glee that some people suggest the idea with. I don't doubt the he would perform either function admirably, but knowing that he would be miserable rather takes away from the, "Yes! Dorian got to be Archon!" type of reaction for me.
 
And sorry, but, "If PC can be miserable about their station, no NPC should be safe either," is a terrible attitude. I'm not naive enough to think that everyone gets a happy ending, but I don't begrudge those who do.

 

I understand your point and I share it, up to a point. As far as I see it, the Dragon Age series has always played with the issue of Responsibility since Duncan took the Warden candidate to Ostagar, by force if necessary. Putting the happiness (not even life, freedom or conscience) of one character above the good of a nation is a far more terrible attitude, I think, and it is one that the games have never condoned for the PC. It's not "if my PC is miserable, so must be the rest!", but "if even the worst kind of PC can be responsible about it, it's fair to expect the same from the rest", if you know what I mean.

 

Also, he isn't eligible to be Archon because he is now a magister. The Archon appoints his own successor from those outside the Magisterium and Imperial Chantry. Given Dorian's poor reputation in the Imperium, and the falling out his father had with the Archon, even if he weren't a magister, it isn't likely that the Archon would look on him very favorably. And this is in addition to his working with the Inquisition, an unpopular organization, and being a leader in an upstart political party. If the Archon were assassinated by someone and there was no appointed successor, the Magisterium would likely vote on someone, and I guarantee that wouldn't be Dorian either.

 

That's fascinating stuff I didn't know! Thank you for explaining. Now I'm starting to wonder if the option of being an Archon may be open for the PC in DA4.

 

It's also unlikely that he will be the "Black" Divine, since those are risen from the priesthood. Dorian would have to join the Chantry and rise through the ranks in order for that to happen. However, there is precedent for a non-cleric in that Urian Nihalias was a magister who became the Black Divine in 9:27 Dragon after a coup against his predecessor (according to DAwiki, they don't list a source for that one).
 
I suppose they could use the special plot power of the PC to enable either choice, but it would still be a stretch and go against established lore for the setting. So that would be a case of letting the player have too much power when they shouldn't be able to. How can we possibly come down from a PC as powerful as the Inquisitor? There is only so much influence a PC can wield without it seeming absurd. In DAO our Warden nobody was able to influence the Landsmeet only because they were part of a particular organization and there was a larger threat. The Inquisitor was able to influence the Divine, but that was more appropriate for the person, and even then the war table operation for supporting whoever woman makes it clear that you can show your support, but the Clerics will vote how they please.

 

Well, as you have said, there are precedents for that in lore and in game. It has already happened in Tevinter without player input, and it has happened in DA:I with the Chantry. The bigger one. It may happen again, and with good reason. After all, Tevinter is going to face a full scale Qunari invasion which, as lore tells us, can be as tough as a Blight and certainly worse than whatever Corypheus had against the Inquisition (minus the Breach).

 

It's too easy to imagine scenarios in which a powerful figure (coughPCcough) takes advantage of the war to become incredibly popular and take the power. Tevinter was inspired by Rome and Byzantium, wasn't it? That scenario has happened so often in Roman history that it's not funny.

 

This is not necessarily true. The choice for Divine is influenced by player decisions throughout the game and you don't have to actually support a candidate on the war table in order for them to be elected. I've gotten Leliana as Divine several times and never specifically supported her simply because I went about playing the game according to my role-play. Only in my most recent play did I make specific choices to have Cassandra crowned Divine. So while the choice is influenced by the player, it's not a direct choice that the player has specific control over. Unlike, say, the Landsmeet where the player has specific, direct control over that entire situation.

 

That's a matter of game mechanics. Different options are still there and depend on PC's choices, even if the player was left in the dark about the specific mechanics. If Dorian becomes a candidate for Black Divine, I'm sure there will be at least another one. That was my point.

[nightscrawl]

Hello! New here. I was wondering if some of you lovely people could help me with a question in regards to Dorian x IQ. I've read up on Dorian's bio and it says that "there is also indication in game banter the [Inquisitor and Dorian] may be married already." I've searched and looked, and the only indication I can find is that when Dorian mentions about it being like a second honeymoon when he's in the IQ party during Trespasser. I felt that was said more in jest than any real indication that they are married. Are there more clues that I missed that indicated more about their marital status? Because prior to this moment, the IQ had a convo with Cassandra about marriage, and though the IQ considered the idea, he wasn't planning to propose then and there.

 

Still, I find it rather bittersweet that if they did get married after Trespasser but spent time apart due the whole Tevinter/Solas thing.

 

People can have whatever head-canon they want and are going to read the line in the way that favors that regardless. BUT, I agree that he was just being his Dorian self when saying that line. At the most, I would say that it eluded to a romantic getaway they took after Corypheus was defeated. I know my guy certainly needed a break after all that crap.

 

However, I DO NOT think Bioware would force a very personal decision on our character like that. It is completely out of the bounds of role-play to suggests that your character got married when they might not want to. I saw some similar comments from Cullen-mancers expressing disappointment because they felt that their character might have already gotten married and even had a child by the point Trespasser rolls around and were actually upset that that wasn't expressed in the game.

[nightscrawl]

However, that said, Dorian does say "there will always be an us" and "you are the man I love", which is near enough a wedding vow, so who needs an official ceremony?   Have to admit just a tinge of jealousy for Sera though.  When she proposes the Inquisitor can say that marriage is all about titles and inheritance but Sera dismisses that idea because marriage can mean what they want it to.    Totally agree.    Still I have an elven Inquisitor, so he wouldn't recognise a Chantry sanctioned ceremony anyway.   He's bonded for life in the traditions of his people and in my head canon exchanged simple vows with Dorian according to his own customs.    Come to think of it, I don't suppose Dorian would recognise a southern Chantry sanctioned ceremony either.   If there is a Maker watching over us, as Dorian believes, then he would be aware of our commitment to one another.

 

He's not a fan of the Chantry as an institution, whether that is in the North or South, but people tend to have very specific ideas when it comes to marriage. Someone who was raised in a faith, but not a practicing whatever, might still feel that marriage is a huge step in their life, so they want to go all the way with a religious ceremony and such. You never know how people are about these things until you discuss it.

 

As for Dorian specifically, I'm not sure how he would feel about marriage in general. I wouldn't be surprised if the concept weren't tainted for him because of his parents' marriage, his own experience in trying to avoid it being forced on him, and just the general meaning of marriage for nobility. However, I can see him accepting a gesture of commitment. I'm not quite sure if he would make one unprompted himself, though. He just might not think that is something he needs to do, or they need to do. Or... you know Dorian, he might feel that the Inquisitor might balk and not make one because of that.

 

And something I can actually see him saying if the subject were to be brought up, "That's not what men like us do, is it?" Because as a homosexual, and one who grew up in Tevinter, he would NEVER have considered being married to another man. It just wouldn't have been a concept that he even entertained in his mind. Being in a relationship was already a big deal. So, he might be confused, or disbelieving. I don't think he would react with immediate happiness.

 

 

It's tough to say, really.

[Catilina]

Dorian's quest still bugged? Mother Giselle dont appear after i finished Last resort of a good man in the tavern, and the speak with Dorian.

[nightscrawl]

To my understanding, the bug was that Mother Giselle would not appear at all to give you the tavern quest. I hate to give one of those responses, but did you try reloading, or restarting the game?

 

If that doesn't fix it, you may have to revert to an earlier save.

[Catilina]

To my understanding, the bug was that Mother Giselle would not appear at all to give you the tavern quest. I hate to give one of those responses, but did you try reloading, or restarting the game?

 

If that doesn't fix it, you may have to revert to an earlier save.

Thank you i will try. And i dont understand, i finished this quest with another char, and i dint have tht problem

[HurraFTP]

Thank you i will try. And i dont understand, i finished this quest with another char, and i dint have tht problem

 

Or you may lack a bit of approval. In my many PT, sometimes she's here directly after the cutscene in the tavern and skyhold, sometimes I have to do a war table mission or kill another packs of Venatori  to have her in the library.
 

[Catilina]

Or you may lack a bit of approval. In my many PT, sometimes she's here directly after the cutscene in the tavern and skyhold, sometimes I have to do a war table mission or kill another packs of Venatori  to have her in the library.
 

Maybe later? I always shaw Mother Giselles's scene directly after the mission...

[HurraFTP]

Maybe later? I always shaw Mother Giselles's scene directly after the mission...

 

 Maybe. I'm not sure how it works. When I replay my guy, I always pick the same answers to Dorian, do the quests in same order, exct...most of the time Mother Giselle is in the library right after "Last resort..." but one of a row, she's not... Why? a mystery for the ages...

 

Edit: posts count: 100! my absolute record in a board

[Catilina]

 Maybe. I'm not sure how it works. When I replay my guy, I always pick the same answers to Dorian, do the quests in same order, exct...most of the time Mother Giselle is in the library right after "Last resort..." but one of a row, she's not... Why? a mystery for the ages...

 

Edit: posts count: 100! my absolute record in a board

I cannot decide it now, I should continue it with him no... great I dont want to waste my time...

[HurraFTP]

Maybe you can wait for the time of a war table mission for Dorian and see how things are going  from there?

[Gervaise]

Not sure exactly how that one works since you have to have a certain level of approval for  the Last Resort of Good Men to trigger and on my play throughs it is obviously high enough to trigger the subsequent Giselle conversation as well.    In some ways I would have preferred for there to be a bit of a break between the two.    The only thing I can think of is that you had just enough approval points to trigger LRGM but not any more.  

 

If it is any help, my first ever run the Last Resort of Good Men was still bugged, so it worked in reverse over approval rating.   In other words if your approval got too high too quick then it wouldn't trigger and I seem to recall that was the only run where I didn't get Giselle conversation straight after completing the Last Resort Quest.   So I clearly had gone just high enough in approval not to prevent the quest (hope this makes sense to you).   In which case it might well be worth experimenting with doing something to raise Dorian's approval that bit more and see what happens.     Try going somewhere you haven't yet killed the Venatori he asked you to, do so and then return to Skyhold.

[Gervaise]

As for Dorian and marriage, I can totally see how the whole marriage concept might be tainted for him and have bad associations because of his history and the way marriage is viewed in Tevinter (in fact among the nobility in much of Thedas).    Which is why I viewed that declaration of his commitment to you as his own form of wedding vow, even if he wouldn't call it as such.    So to Dorian, just saying it and believing it would be a sufficient expression of lifelong devotion both to you and in the eyes of the Maker.   In fact, in its purest form, that is how marriage as a sacrament works; you don't even need a priest to make it valid because it is a commitment made to one another in the eyes of God.    Witnesses are needed for legal reasons so it is recognised by the law but not to make it valid to the couple.   That is how I like to think it is for Dorian and the Inquisitor; they know they are bonded to one another and nothing is going to change that no matter what life throws at them.

[Catilina]

Not sure exactly how that one works since you have to have a certain level of approval for  the Last Resort of Good Men to trigger and on my play throughs it is obviously high enough to trigger the subsequent Giselle conversation as well.    In some ways I would have preferred for there to be a bit of a break between the two.    The only thing I can think of is that you had just enough approval points to trigger LRGM but not any more.  

 

If it is any help, my first ever run the Last Resort of Good Men was still bugged, so it worked in reverse over approval rating.   In other words if your approval got too high too quick then it wouldn't trigger and I seem to recall that was the only run where I didn't get Giselle conversation straight after completing the Last Resort Quest.   So I clearly had gone just high enough in approval not to prevent the quest (hope this makes sense to you).   In which case it might well be worth experimenting with doing something to raise Dorian's approval that bit more and see what happens.     Try going somewhere you haven't yet killed the Venatori he asked you to, do so and then return to Skyhold.

I think i have high approval at Dorian, but who knows?  No problem... i have another characters

 

Up: Thanks for the help! Finaly successed.

[nightscrawl]

I'll bump the thread with some Dorian art. I know we all know what this look is from...

 

Spoiler

forsakenvow on tumblr.