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[MilesUpShore]

OMG yes! I reloaded a save to see how the dialogues played out, and Dorian's face when you said "let's keep it casual". It was so sad! I was like nope. I went back immediately and gave Dorian all the love he deserved haha.

 

Although after I hit "let's keep it casual", I went to find Dorian in the library, the option "begin a romance" popped up. It plays out the same, of course, but the order of sequence in which it happened made me imagine the IQ regretted his words and decided to begin a real relationship with Dorian haha. I am of the opinion that the alternative kiss after they confront Mother Giselle and "taking it slow" is my preferred way of playing it. Too bad for all the bugs though if you make those choices :/

 

Lol I'm still on my first playthrough, but I can already see in my second playthrough I'm gonna romance Dorian again. Dang his glorious mustache. And to think I wasn't going to romance him the first go around because of how curly it was.

 

Ah, so when you immediately run to speak to him after the 'Let's keep it casual', you can still start a locked in relationship with him? I didn't know that.

And you mean you prefer kissing him only after the Mother Giselle scene and not after his quest in Redcliffe? I do like the immediate kiss more. Gonna hit that asap!

And what bugs appear after that? lol, sorry for all the questions.

I know that the game bugs out in a massive way regarding the relationship to Dorian, but it's only later in the game and I don't want to spoil anything on purpose if it's your first playthrough. But that's one thing that really really annoys me and I don't know why they didn't fix it... biower pls.

 

Have you seen the mod for how he looks without the moustache? Like a completely different person.

[nightscrawl]

The "Let's keep this casual" is the worst one, I think; he just shuts down completely. Whereas the "This was a one-time deal" option has him hiding it with anger. Still sad, but less devastating in appearance.

 

 

The alternate kiss isn't really bugged, it just requires a bit more effort. After the kiss, you can talk to him again to ask whether he wants to get closer:

 

I'd like to talk to you about something.

How ominous. Has my father finally come up with a decent offer to buy me from you?

No, it's nothing like that...

I wouldn't blame you. My father's a very wealthy man. [This man, I swear... ]

I meant I wanted to talk about us.

Oh-ho! I see. What's the latest news on the "us" front, then?

 

Dialogue wheel with "This will begin a romance with Dorian" option.

[I want us to be closer.] I was hoping to get to know you better.

 

So... you and I? People will talk.

Let them.

All right, we'll see how this goes. Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

After this, in order for it to play out correctly -- indicated by the appearance of the "kiss on demand" option, and also with he Messenger below if approval is high enough -- you need to leave the map entirely; go to Hinterlands or somewhere not Skyhold. When you return everything will be set.

 

Also, it is definitely worth taking the "kiss on demand" option at least once before the romance lock-in quarters scene. His laugh is wonderful.

 

As far as the take it slow option, I have no idea what bugs are associated with that. I wasn't aware of any, but I have watched it (I watch both every play and then choose my preferred version). The only one I can think of is perhaps dialog later on that makes it seem like you have had sex. But that can easily be explained away by saying that it simply happened off camera at some other time, when your PC was ready. Although asexual players doing this romance might not like that implication.

 

I certainly don't think Dorian would mind waiting, since the emotional attachment is his primary need in this relationship. But he does like and enjoy sex, so I think he will want it eventually.

 

 

I always play it out the same way as well, though I do tend to watch the other versions and reload; they're too great not too. Actually, the thing I like the best about the Inquisitor initiated kiss comes during the post-Giselle scene. Dorian asks if his influence is "undue." If you respond with, "No, not undue at all," he will say, "Overdue, then?" and the Inquisitor has the CUTEST EFFING SMILE EVER OMG IT KILLS ME. I really don't know how Dorian didn't just jump him right there, to be honest.

 

Uh... anyway! I like the Dorian surprise kiss + sex version. It fits the best with my Inquisitor's RP. I have an entire head-canon developed around it so I can't play it any other way.

[xblkdragonx]

Ah, so when you immediately run to speak to him after the 'Let's keep it casual', you can still start a locked in relationship with him? I didn't know that.

And you mean you prefer kissing him only after the Mother Giselle scene and not after his quest in Redcliffe? I do like the immediate kiss more. Gonna hit that asap!

And what bugs appear after that? lol, sorry for all the questions.

I know that the game bugs out in a massive way regarding the relationship to Dorian, but it's only later in the game and I don't want to spoil anything on purpose if it's your first playthrough. But that's one thing that really really annoys me and I don't know why they didn't fix it... biower pls.

 

Have you seen the mod for how he looks without the moustache? Like a completely different person.

 

Yeah, you can still lock in a relationship with him after the sex scene. I felt so bad after the "casual" option, I wanted to go and apologize and to my surprise, hey, you still get locked in. However if you choose the second kiss after Mother Giselle and/or "keep it casual", when you go to Dorian and asks to spend some alone time with him, you don't get the kiss cutscenes anymore.

 

I actually chose the first kiss after RedCliffe (lol gotta tap that ASAP right?) and so was able to avoid the bug, but the kiss after confronting Mother Giselle was pretty cute imo.

 

I did see him without the mustache! He does look younger without it, but I'm too used to the mustache now lol. How old is Dorian supposed to be in the game?

 

 

The "Let's keep this casual" is the worst one, I think; he just shuts down completely. Whereas the "This was a one-time deal" option has him hiding it with anger. Still sad, but less devastating in appearance.

Oh, I didn't hit that option when I played it. Time to go back and see what happens!

 

Poor Dorian. I suppose he really, really hoped the IQ would be different from the others. Ouch. I'm hurting myself thinking of what Dorian's going through if you don't choose the relationship option

[MilesUpShore]

The "Let's keep this casual" is the worst one, I think; he just shuts down completely. Whereas the "This was a one-time deal" option has him hiding it with anger. Still sad, but less devastating in appearance.

 

Do you remember what he says after the 'One time-deal' option?

Curious now and I don't want to hear it from himself/check it out on YouTube. You get me, I guess.

 

Yeah, you can still lock in a relationship with him after the sex scene. I felt so bad after the "casual" option, I wanted to go an apologize and to my surprise, hey, you still get locked in. However if you choose the second kiss after Mother Giselle and "keep it casual", when you go to Dorian and asks to spend some alone time with him, you don't get the kiss cutscenes anymore.

 

I actually chose the first kiss after RedCliff (lol gotta tap that ASAP right?) and so was able to avoid the bug, but the kiss after confronting Mother Giselle was pretty cute imo.

 

I did see him without the mustache! He does look younger without it, but I'm too used to the mustache now lol. How old is Dorian supposed to be in the game?

 

Ufff! Thank god I'd never choose this option anyway. No repeatable Dorian kiss? Not in my game!

Damn right @ the bolded part.

 

I'm quite sure he's 30 when Inquisition starts, if you look it up on the Wiki you get his birthdate and also the date for the time Inquisition starts.

 

Which makes me think... how long after are the epilogue slides for Trespasser supposed to be? Does anyone know, is it stated somewhere and I just didn't see?

Asking because, Dorian, why suddenly let your hair grow?!

[nightscrawl]

^ I don't recall exactly. There is a shot of him bending over to pick up his scattered clothing and armor (it's not as hot as it sounds, to me, at least, because of the context). His final remark is to insult your decorating skills by suggesting that you get some new curtains. He's just so upset that he just throws out anything.

 

 

Yes, Dorian is 30 at the start of DAI. WoT Vol. 2 confirmed his birth year in 9:11 Dragon, with DAI starting in 9:41. I do wish we knew the exact date (day, month) as well so I could write a birthday fic, but alas we do not and I don't feel comfortable just making it up. I try to remain as close to established lore as possible with my fics.

 

As to your other question, I wouldn't read too much into it, particularly since his appearance in the slides is not consistent. He looks older in the Inquisitor romance ones than in the Iron Bull romance ones. Don't take them as any sort of definite indication that he looks a certain way, OR that the next game (if he appears) will follow along with that look.

 

I have a certain head-canon for his hair -- fashion trends and all that -- but that's just me.

[MilesUpShore]

 Actually, the thing I like the best about the Inquisitor initiated kiss comes during the post-Giselle scene. Dorian asks if his influence is "undue." If you respond with, "No, not undue at all," he will say, "Overdue, then?" and the Inquisitor has the CUTEST EFFING SMILE EVER OMG IT KILLS ME. I really don't know how Dorian didn't just jump him right there, to be honest.

 

 

Ah, I saw your edit just now and wanted to quote that part because I agree so damn much!

Also when Inquisitor smiles at him in the very last scene after the main game, before you head to your quarters with him. Ugh, how I wish I had my screenshots of it on this PC.

 

 

As to your other question, I wouldn't read too much into it, particularly since his appearance in the slides is not consistent. He looks older in the Inquisitor romance ones than in the Iron Bull romance ones. Don't take them as any sort of definite indication that he looks a certain way, OR that the next game (if he appears) will follow along with that look.

 

I have a certain head-canon for his hair -- fashion trends and all that -- but that's just me.

 

Yeah, it's just one of these little things that I know have no 'meaningful impact' for the game but still make my mind wander. I so would like to see him in-game with that hairstyle.

Sigh, IF he appears in the next game and it'll be 'early confirmed' I know that would be one of the things I'd wait for the most, how he'll look and behave.

[xblkdragonx]

The "Let's keep this casual" is the worst one, I think; he just shuts down completely. Whereas the "This was a one-time deal" option has him hiding it with anger. Still sad, but less devastating in appearance.

 

 

The alternate kiss isn't really bugged, it just requires a bit more effort. After the kiss, you can talk to him again to ask whether he wants to get closer:

 

Also, it is definitely worth taking the "kiss on demand" option at least once before the romance lock-in quarters scene. His laugh is wonderful.

 

I always play it out the same way as well, though I do tend to watch the other versions and reload; they're too great not too. Actually, the thing I like the best about the Inquisitor initiated kiss comes during the post-Giselle scene. Dorian asks if his influence is "undue." If you respond with, "No, not undue at all," he will say, "Overdue, then?" and the Inquisitor has the CUTEST EFFING SMILE EVER OMG IT KILLS ME. I really don't know how Dorian didn't just jump him right there, to be honest.

 

Uh... anyway! I like the Dorian surprise kiss + sex version. It fits the best with my Inquisitor's RP. I have an entire head-canon developed around it so I can't play it any other way.

 

I've gotten the alternate version to work...but only on occasion. I leave the map, and I'm able to get the kiss cutscene. However, it's not consistent. If after the kiss cutscene, I ask for another kiss, the cutscene won't play. So basically every time you want to kiss Dorian, you have to leave Skyhold and come back. And that's a little inconvenient haha. So I just prefer the first kiss bc it's not as buggy. 

 

LOL Dorian was probably very close to jumping him, but wagging tongues haha. But oh man, the undue influence scene now lol. I purposely have Dorian saves in my save lots just for this reason.

 

And thanks for telling me their age. I was assuming he was in his 30s. I found his birthday, but was unable to calculate his age since I'm quite new to DA. Didn't know how their calendar work quite yet.

[Gervaise]

I've played through both the fast and slow romance routes and I never noticed any bugs subsequent to the bedroom scene.    I was constantly going back to see Dorian either to get yet another kiss, because I really love that cut scene, or to suggest spending some time together, where Dorian comes up with various options.  

 

Before the bedroom scene I did have a bit of a problem last romance run when I didn't have quite enough approval to trigger the next stage after Giselle where Leliana tells you about his amulet.   I kept going back to see Dorian and getting the heart icon with the qualifier "this will start a romance", which confused me because I thought we already had.   So I kept saying over and over again "I'd like us to be closer" until finally I'd killed some more Venatori and the Birthright quest triggered.   

 

What was really disappointing is the way in which companion interactions completely stop after the end of the main game, apart from one encounter the first time you go and see them.    I would have at least liked the chance to go back and kiss Dorian after each outing away from Skyhold but sadly it was not to be.  Once I realised this I tended to do everything as part of the main game.

[xblkdragonx]

I'm playing on the PS4. I wonder if that makes a difference with bugs?

Yeah, I heard about no more kissing after the main game which sucks. Lol more the reason to do a second playthrough or finish all the quests beforehand.

[Gervaise]

What was also disappointing was that casual conversation as a friend dried up after the Mother Giselle confrontation.    When you go to visit Dorian you just get a hello/goodbye until the next main plot point.    If you are best friends with Sera you can keep going back for time on the roof.  If you are best friends with Cassandra or Vivienne you can go and ask them their opinion on the rest of the team.   Click on Cole and you usually get some sort of monologue from him.   While Solas has a fair few stories of the Fade to get through before you exhaust his conversation options.    Sadly with Dorian there was nothing.    It felt a bit odd seeing as we were meant to be such good friends that they didn't give us some sort of option for casual talk.     All the more reason for romancing him of course.

 

By the way, I know someone said about listening to Ramon Tikram's sister sing but I have just found a posting on You Tube where Ramon is singing.    Which got me thinking, what if they had Dorian sing in the next game.   I'm still working on the justification for this plot wise (or simply for the fun of it).  Any ideas?

[nightscrawl]

^ That's why I space out his investigate dialogues. I tend to save the Chantry one before Adamant for RP reasons.

[xblkdragonx]

 

By the way, I know someone said about listening to Ramon Tikram's sister sing but I have just found a posting on You Tube where Ramon is singing.    Which got me thinking, what if they had Dorian sing in the next game.   I'm still working on the justification for this plot wise (or simply for the fun of it).  Any ideas?

 

lol maybe for not next game, but for storyline purposes, I can see Dorian loving the sound of his own voice. It would not be surprising if Dorian hum or sang absentmindedly if he was reading or doing research. A little quirk if he's comfortable around the people around him. Or perhaps he was stupidly drunk one time and joined in singing at the tavern. Or he could be drunk one night, and prompted by memory, he decided to sing a song he used to love to his lover.

[nightscrawl]

^ I don't think he's that vain... But I agree with the rest.

[Gervaise]

Or a little absent minded he starts to sing something that reminds him of his lover in the south without really realising he is doing it, in the same way that Cassandra comments about him starring dreamily off into the distance with a happy smile on his face.

 

In my own case, I can see my Lavellan singing Suledin to him.   It is meant to be a song about enduring and emerging from sorrow, tied to the loss of their homeland, but is apparently adapted to express personal struggles as well.    There are times when he finds the separation from Dorian very hard to bear so he sings to remind himself to be strong since ultimately it is a song about hope for the future when they will be reunited.  May be Dorian does the same.

[nightscrawl]

Harry Hadden-Paton (Inquisitor British VA) was in tonight’s Downton Abbey for quite a bit. He is SO adorable omg. He sounds a bit off, and I’ve finally realized that I think he might be doing a different accent. I’m not sure if the Inquisitor is his natural way of speaking, or if the Downton version is, or neither. Both of those settings are very particular, with Downton requiring more of a period sound, I think, whereas the Inquisitor has to be neutral enough to account for several origins.

 

So much fun!

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider at Nordic Game in Sweden. Very interesting bits on diversity in games. DAI stuff starts around 19 min, with stuff on Dorian at 23 min.
 
It’s pretty interesting overall and David does really well in these sorts of presentations. The whole video is worth a watch if you have a spare 45 minutes. It’s also interesting to note how he talks about games and game development to other developers, in comparison to a media interview or in a venue that is among fans.

I’ve transcribed the relevant Dorian bits below since he’s my fave. I find it interesting that Dorian’s overall concept (other than appearance) didn’t really change at all from the initial idea, as opposed to some of the other examples he puts forth, such as a female Iron Bull, or murderous Vivienne.

So, let’s talk about a specific character, Dorian. In Dragon Age, Dorian is described as, “A mage from the dread Tevinter Imperium, charming and cocky. He would be the pride of his family if he didn’t stand against everything they stood for.” He also happens to be gay. Something which was part of his story, but not the only reason for his existence.
 
We didn’t begin with that, however. Like I said earlier, when we start off making a major character we begin with their story, not just “gay male mage.” That’s not a concept. Nothing creative is going to come out of that. But people think that’s what you start with, right? “Oh you just set out to make a gay guy.” ‘Cause that’s the pitch to my team: “Hey, guys, guys! I want a gay guy!” We focus on their personality and what we want them to represent in the overall narrative.
 
Dorian began as the “Rock Star Mage;” cocky, aristocratic, almost as talented as he thinks he is, the Tony Stark of mages. The kind of bad boy you think you should hate, but you just can’t help but think he’s cool. That’s what we pitched to the artists.
 
…
 
The artist liked this particular idea and you can see one of the first concepts they came up with on the screen. Sort of a handsome, aristocratic, white guy. Very Tony Stark. Then they got to work iterating Rock Star Mage’s appearance. We brought up the idea that maybe he could be from eastern Tevinter where darker skin tones are more prevalent. The artist thought, “Hm, perhaps we could go for something that seemed more Arabic or East Indian.” Why? Because at the time we had plenty of white people in the cast already and this made him stand out. It gave him some immediate character.
 
This is also when the writing team started fleshing out his backstory. One thing we wrestled with at the time was why a man from a powerful family with everything to lose would be so set against corruption in his own country. At first we were talking about how he was going to be a closet idealist with this tragic past, but then the idea of him being gay was brought up.
 
“But, Dave,” someone said, “Tevinter doesn’t really have anything against gay people as long as you’re discrete.” And that’s when it clicked for me: he doesn’t want to be discrete, he doesn’t want to marry the girl, further the dynasty. We knew we were going to have some different sexualities in the party, so what if it was this character? What if his sexuality was the seed for his dissatisfaction and made for an interesting question to answer, and answering that led to the Dorian we have today.

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider has left Bioware. Reason unknown at this time.

 

Honestly, the only consolation I had that a non-DG-written Dorian might appear in the next game are comments that were made stating that he was basically right down the hall working on the new IP and they could go check in with him (and other writers) to ensure that they got the character's voice right.

 

I'm also wondering if this nixes the DA book he was supposedly writing.

 

Sigh... I was bummed out that he left Dragon Age. Now I'm really bummed out. I do wish him the best though, and hope that he left for positive reasons, rather than negative ones.

[Reznore57]

I have the feeling the book has been dropped months ago , I may be wrong of course but I remember David gaider tweeting about writing Fenris again and when someone on the forum asked him about it he said something like "I have no idea what you're talking about " ...Back then I thought "o....k , guess there's no book on the horizon".

The whole thing was weird .

 

About  Dorian or some of the character he wrote , well it seems he gets along pretty well with Patrick Weekes so there's nothing stopping them from keeping in touch .

[nightscrawl]

I have the feeling the book has been dropped months ago , I may be wrong of course but I remember David gaider tweeting about writing Fenris again and when someone on the forum asked him about it he said something like "I have no idea what you're talking about " ...Back then I thought "o....k , guess there's no book on the horizon".

The whole thing was weird .

 

About  Dorian or some of the character he wrote , well it seems he gets along pretty well with Patrick Weekes so there's nothing stopping them from keeping in touch .

 

That's true, I suppose.

[Gervaise]

That's sad he's left Bioware after so long.  I hope it is for the right reasons and it is not a case of him being forced out, creative disputes, etc.   Do you suppose this means the game he was meant to be working on has been axed too?    I suppose we can take consolation from the fact that at least he did get to write Dorian.   

[nightscrawl]

The main thread on this has the info. It was his decision, an amicable parting, and the new IP will forge on. We also don't yet know what he's going to be doing.

[Hazegurl]

Honestly, I'm not the least bit sad about the news. He chose to leave so it must have been his time.  Also, while I love Dorian, I felt that his bias eventually took over which affected his writing and DA:I overall wasn't very good.  Most likely the result of him no longer being into the story.   So I think it's a good idea for him to leave the company and work on something brand new.

[nightscrawl]

I wanted to bump the thread with a bit of Dorian art.

 

I don't like to get carried away posting, or even reblogging (on tumbr), really sexy stuff because I think it can put too much emphasis on the sex and take away from the relationship. That said, I am posting this one because I happen to really like this particular artist.

 

This preview version is somewhat NSFW, but the full version (linked on the tumblr post) is VERY NSFW.

Spoiler

 

cocotingo on tumblr.

[Gervaise]

Thought I would bump Dorian up the line.   I've been thinking again about the first sexual encounter with Dorian and it still tends to puzzle me how different it comes across if you agree to sex with him as against asking him to slow it down.

 

If you agree to sex, then he broaches the subject about wanting a relationship.   He admits that he has never had one and Tevinter culture has taught him not to hope for more but clearly he is hoping for more because he reacts so disappointed if you say you want to keep it just fun.   However, by not discussing this before sex, he is setting himself up for disappointment.   If you say you do want more, he is clearly so happy at the outcome.  

 

However, if you ask to slow things down, he seems almost surprised you want a relationship (understandable given his experience in Tevinter) but, depending on your dialogue objection, he can say that you want him to be a unicorn but he doesn't know how.   Yet in the sexual encounter he is the one wanting to be the unicorn.  Then the Inquisitor's response is that he doesn't want to change him but in a way you are, or at least his learned behaviour.  Finally he says in a rather off hand way, "Have it your own way then".    He also does say he doesn't want to leave empty handed because "my pride you know."    It always seems to me there should be a follow up to this in some way, may be acknowledging that he is glad you asked for a relationship first because you are left almost feeling you have pushed him into something he didn't want but that it eventually grows on him.   When you know if you have seen the alternative path, that is not the case and it is something he really wanted.

[nightscrawl]

Yes, I wrote a tome. I really can't help it with this character. Onward...

 

 

I don't think there needs to be a follow up to the no-sex version. To me, the expression on his face says everything. I tend to feel that that is what the Dorian romance is all about, really. He shows what he wants without saying it, and this is reflected in the final balcony scene with, "You are dull and I hate you," followed by, "I hope this ends soon."

 

We know that Dorian wants a relationship, wants "more" than just sex. But in the sex version he does what he understands, what he is used to, and what he thinks the Inquisitor wants, so he propositions him. As you say, it is learned behavior, but it also comes down to him not allowing himself to see what the Inquisitor has clearly shown through the various dialogues: that he does care for and want to be with him.

 

However, I will say that this can come across differently based on the dialogue options you've chosen thus far, and they set the tone for the relationship. I tend to feel that choosing the humorous (often option 2) or aggressive (often option 3) options can lend itself to Dorian thinking of it as more of a physical attraction than an emotional one. Consider the post amulet humorous response, "Go ahead and use me, Dorian. Or are you all talk?" While Dorian does laugh at this and seems to like it, you can understand why he might not think a relationship is something that the Inquisitor also wants. However, the emotional responses (often option 1), do tend to suggest that. But again, he isn't allowing himself to see it.

 

Also, if you consider part of his response when you say, "No," right at the outset, that is, to completely refuse the romance [link with all options], he is clearly agitated. After the initial statement, "I don't enjoy being toyed with. First you're hot, then you're cold. If this isn't leading anywhere, then say so. I'm a big boy, I can take it," and the Inquisitor's response, Dorian has various Dorian-like responses, from disappointment, "Friendship. I see," to sarcasm, "Sad that I didn't get to see you naked first, but have it your way," and finally embarrassment, "No, I apologize. My sense of timing is usually better. Perhaps we should... pick this up another time? After the business with Corypheus is resolved, for both our sakes."

 

I think both versions, sex and no-sex, are pretty great. His surprise in the no-sex version is bittersweet when you understand why he reacts in that manner. He lets his guard down in that one moment, but then it comes back up again and you get his, "Fine, have it your way," remark, and the bit about pride before he moves in for the kiss. It's obvious to me that he is happy; the look on his face as the kiss ends is proof enough of that. The reason I prefer the sex version is because Dorian has made himself vulnerable and ALL of his guards come down and there is no pretense whatsoever. He doesn't know where things stand between them as a result of their having sex because there is clearly an emotional component that he's not used to dealing with, so he is forced to ask.

 

The key difference between those two scenes is in Dorian's vulnerability, which is why he comes across differently in each even though he wants the same thing regardless.