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[Joe25]

Working on music theory, and wishing Dorian had sisters named Phrygian and Lydian.

[Gervaise]

Good old Nightscrawl, I knew you wouldn't let me down.  You always have something interesting to say.  I like to raise these questions because it seems to get the thread going again and I do like talking about Dorian. 

 

I've been working on my own fan fiction sequel to events recently, because who knows how long it will be until DA4, and I have been discovering how difficult it is for my Lavellan to get away from the south and back to Dorian; something always seems to crop up that needs his attention.  It's not Inquisition business because he disbanded that but he's been trying to improve things for elves in the Freemarches to counter Solas' influence and then there was an Arlathaven to attend.   Had to endure some pretty nasty comments about his relationship with Dorian there but he was expecting it.     Now Dorian is sending some of his liberati south because now they are free, they'd rather leave Tevinter altogether, so he's asked Lavellan to look after them when they get across the border.   So that's something else he needs to deal with before he goes north   At present I'm thinking the renewed Qunari assault on mainland Tevinter is going to be the catalyst to get him galloping to Dorian's aid because first land fall is likely to be at Qarinus and that would involve Dorian, even if the epilogue slides only mention the Inquisitor turning up in Minrathous.   Anyway, he's just taken delivery of a silverite arm from Dagna or as Sera put it in her note, a replacement a*** scratcher.     He got very emotional when he realised he would be able to use his bow again and is excited at being able to tell Dorian the good news.   They spend every evening talking to one another; that crystal was a really inspired idea on Dorian's part.

[xblkdragonx]

Ah, I'm so glad someone brought this up, because I'm sorta stuck atm. I just started my second playthrough, and I wish I hadn't, because now all the save files I had that marked each progress with Dorian are gone. However, I think there was a part where you can initiate a relationship with Dorian prior to the sex scene no? The one where Dorian is standing in the library and you can talk to him "about us" and Dorian is shocked. Or did I just imagine that? If recruiting Dorian to the party didn't take so bloody long, I would confirm it myself again.

[nightscrawl]

^ You are thinking of the the second romance path, but regardless of whichever path you take to get there, the quarters scene is the ultimate lock-in for the romance.

 

Here is a basic run down of the Dorian romance path...

 

Flirting or no flirting, that is your choice. Someone who is more familiar with the flirts will have to clarify this bit, since I always flirt, so I'm not sure which flirts are 100% required.

 

There are seven flirts that lead up to the romance: 1 first conversation in Haven after IHW -- I don't know if there is something similar after CoJ in Skyhold, 2 the "getting to know you" investigate, 3 first conversation in Skyhold, 4 "You look rather strapping," 5 during the Redcliffe Tavern confrontation with Halward, 6 during the post-tavern conversation, 7 during the post-Giselle conversation. There are more than this overall, but probably at least two of these are required to show interest and start something.

 

As an example of the above, I think if you want to have a more confrontational relationship with him from the start, or just have your Inquisitor as shy or low-key -- I know some in this thread RP that way -- you can avoid most of the flirts. You can choose to "come out" during the tavern scene, which is considered a flirt. I do NOT know for certain whether you can get by with going only with flirt 6 or 7 (depending on the path you want).

 

So, you've shown your interest via flirting and now you have to choose which path you want to take.

 

Path 1: Choosing flirt 6 during the post-tavern conversation has the Inquisitor initiate a mutual kiss. There is NO confirmation dialogue, "This will begin a romance with Dorian." Following that, the conversation post-Giselle plays out in a certain way, with Dorian orally confirming as part of the conversation that this is something you want. After that conversation, if your approval is high enough, the messenger will appear with the amulet quest. You should also be able to select the kiss-on-demand option.

 

Path 2: If you do NOT want to have your Inquisitor initiate the first kiss, then you do NOT select flirt 6 in the post-tavern conversation; choose option 1, "I think you're brave." During the post-Giselle conversation, select flirt 7. This flirt does have a confirmation, "This will begin a romance with Dorian." Dorian will initiate a surprise kiss with the Inquisitor just standing there shocked. After this, in order to really start the romance, you need to speak to Dorian again and tell him you want to be closer, for which you get another confirmation, "This will begin a romance with Dorian."

 

The above Path 2 is what you're referring to, but it is only an alternate path. Both of these paths start the romance, with the quarters scene being the official lock-in for the actual relationship.

 

Path 2 requires a bit more work to get things settled, since the game doesn't fully register the second confirmation. After you take the "closer" dialogue, you will want to leave Skyhold completely -- go to another map. After returning, if your approval is high enough you should find the messenger waiting with the amulet quest. Also, the kiss-on-demand option is now available.

 

 

Finally, if you want to drag it out a bit, you can leave the amulet messenger standing there and avoid walking by her -- doing so automatically triggers the quest. There are two other paths to the upper levels of the tower, and you should use these instead if you want to avoid the messenger. Once she is triggered, she will remain until you're ready to run by and receive the quest.

 

One of the fun things about this romance is that there are so many paths, allowing the player to craft it according to their RP.

[Gervaise]

I would just add that when I did my Josie romance I decided the only way to risk temptation was avoid flirting with Dorian altogether but still got a flirt option after Mother Giselle which said it would initiate a romance with Dorian, even though I had taken none of the earlier ones.   I didn't take I because, like I say, I was trying the Josie romance and didn't think it was fair to play with Dorian's affections, so I don't know what the reaction would have been or if it would have proceeded without problem.   Still it would appear it is possible to play very coy with him and then still initiate the romance, provided you haven't locked yourself in with anyone else.

[Reznore57]

I did a shy/awkward Inquisitor and skipped all the cutscene kisses , I think I picked one flirt option the "Yeah I've hear about guys together " thingie during Dorian's father quests.And that's it.

If I remember correctly Dorian was the first to flirt directly with the fetching eyes stuff , my Inqui played clueless.

And later I could start the romance with a normal conversation , "I want us to be a couple".It sort of worked because it felt like Dorian isn't as serious as the Inquisitor.

Who goes I want to talk about "us" just after a guy told you once you had pretty eyes .
Needless to say I was amused .

 

I skipped all the kisses scenes , except those in Trespasser.I must say I mostly don't like the way the Inqui moves and has this stupid little smile in the romance , it looks like he's a damsel in Gone with the Wind or something.

But I'm not fond of romance scene , it's like a horror movie for me , oh noes they're about to confess their undying love , make doe eyes and kiss . /hide behind the cover and wait for it to be over.

[nightscrawl]

^ Lol different strokes, I guess. Also, I don't think you can skip the post-amulet kiss, unless you meant skip as in that you just skipped by it and didn't watch.

 

I think they both look like they're in love (well, not in all of them, obviously), but that's just my view. My Inquisitor is interested from the outset, but I go the surprise kiss route for RP reasons. I just adore the kiss-on-demand one in the quarters.

[xblkdragonx]

^ You are thinking of the the second romance path, but regardless of whichever path you take to get there, the quarters scene is the ultimate lock-in for the romance.

 

 

Yes, I did both paths on my first playthrough using different save files, (and ultimately went with the first path when I started Trespasser). But I was just curious, because if you go with the second path, Dorian confirms with you on whether or not you want to be in a relationship prior to the sex scene, and yet still asks the IQ whether or not the relationship is going anywhere. Though I suppose he's used to past paramours promising love in order to sleep with him. So it makes sense if he asks to confirm. 

 

Also, as a side note, as I've said before, you can tell Dorian that "it's just for fun" or "keep it casual" after the sex scene, and Dorian will look absolutely crushed. However, you can still initiate a lock in romance afterwards if you talk to him. Lol...though I'm curious to see if you reject Dorian entirely with "let's just be friends" can you still lock in romance with Dorian afterwards.

 

And thank you nightscrawl. I'm actually working on a piece that follows the surprise kiss, and your insight on Dorian helped greatly.

[nightscrawl]

I am so sorry I write so much about this... Er, onward then.

 

Yes, I did both paths on my first playthrough using different save files, (and ultimately went with the first path when I started Trespasser). But I was just curious, because if you go with the second path, Dorian confirms with you on whether or not you want to be in a relationship prior to the sex scene, and yet still asks the IQ whether or not the relationship is going anywhere. Though I suppose he's used to past paramours promising love in order to sleep with him. So it makes sense if he asks to confirm. 
 
Also, as a side note, as I've said before, you can tell Dorian that "it's just for fun" or "keep it casual" after the sex scene, and Dorian will look absolutely crushed. However, you can still initiate a lock in romance afterwards if you talk to him. Lol...though I'm curious to see if you reject Dorian entirely with "let's just be friends" can you still lock in romance with Dorian afterwards.
 
And thank you nightscrawl. I'm actually working on a piece that follows the surprise kiss, and your insight on Dorian helped greatly.

 
It's not entirely accurate that he confirms a "relationship" prior to the sex scene. It's more like he allows the beginning of... something.
 
Here is the actual dialogue...
 
Inquisitor: I'd like to talk to you about something.
Dorian: How ominous. Has my father finally come up with a decent offer to buy me from you?
Iq: No, it's nothing like that...
D: I wouldn't blame you. My father's a very wealthy man.
Iq: I meant I wanted to talk about us.
D: Oh-ho! I see. What's the latest news on the "us" front, then?
Iq: [2. I want us to be closer.] I was hoping to get to know you better.
D: So... you and I? People will talk.
Iq: Let them.
D: All right, we'll see how this goes. Don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Dorian is very flippant about the whole thing. He doesn't start getting more serious until the post-amulet conversation. Even before the romance lock-in, when you do the kiss-on-demand, he will laugh (and it's a fantastic laugh) and say, " 'I need to talk to you,' he says. Have it your way... But let’s go where a hundred onlookers won’t think I’m stealing the Inquisitor’s soul," which is a completely different vibe from how it plays after the lock-in.

 

The whole point is in the difference between sex and a real relationship, and what it means to go beyond sex, or have something be more important than sex. For Dorian, everything is a lead up to sex. This is why he propositions the Inquisitor. The after is what is what is important.
 
The problem is that Dorian is not really sure what this is that exists between them because all he has experience with is the sexual aspect. If you bring him with you to VR and ask for his opinion, he will say to the merchant, "I know what you think. He's not my friend, he's... never mind what he is." Even if he's had sex with close friends before, the possibility of a relationship never entered the picture because it wasn't a thing that could happen. I think there are only two reasons Dorian allows himself to have a glimmer of hope regarding a possible relationship with the Inquisitor: 1 They are not in Tevinter, and neither does the Inquisitor have the Tevinter mindset regarding such things, and 2 because of the closeness they have developed thus far.
 
But even then, I can see Dorian thinking that there is a physical attraction on both sides (which he will have experienced before), a growing friendship and closeness (which he may also have experienced before), and then a further step to actually having sex (which we know he's done before). But what now? Was this only sex? Are we just f-buddies now, friends with benefits? So he has to ask what this REALLY is, and see if there is more.
 
I don't think other men would have proclaimed love in order to get into Dorian's pants. While we know he wants a relationship, I don't think that would have been necessary because he knew that such things were foolish. Both of them would. So they did whatever, had fun, and that was it.
 
 
As to your final remark about the "let's just be friends," I highly doubt you can still initiate a romance afterward, given his reaction in the scene. BUT! You can say that it's bad timing and he will suggest that things be put off until after the business with Corypheus is over. There is a line at the party where he will reference an "unfinished conversation," so I'm assuming that he is referencing this path -- but I don't know for certain, since I've never played it.
 
 
I think the disparity between both paths regarding zero confirmation (Inquisitor initiated kiss) dialogues versus two (Dorian initiated kiss) is rather annoying, and I think it was done because on the second path you have Dorian being the aggressor in the scene and they wanted to avoid another Anders situation. So the game asks the player, "Are you suuuuure you want to start a romance with a gay man?"
 
This might not be accurate at all, and I fully admit that there might be some reason for this disparity I haven't thought of. But the mere fact that the disparity exists, combined with the different way these paths play out, is what leads me to think this.
 
Of course, the odd thing is that, when you completely refuse Dorian in the quarters scene, one of the options has the Inquisitor say, "No. I don't know what you thought, but no." Like, seriously dude? Even if you have only taken one flirt up until that point, you still will have gotten one of the two kiss options, plus the mandatory kiss after the amulet quest. "I don't know what you thought," seems really stupid at best, and makes the Inquisitor seem like a total teasing asshat at worst. I think it might have been better to say that he changed his mind, or something instead of that nonsense. Dorian's remark, "I don't enjoy being toyed with," says it all, IMO.

 

 

[edit]

Just as an addendum... Dorian's reaction to "Let's just keep this fun" totally made me want to punch my Inquisitor in the face. He has the post-sex, feel-good smile when he says it that is totally incongruous with the utter disappointment on Dorian's face. It's really, truly awful.

[xblkdragonx]

^thank you for the dialogue! I was looking for that one, but didn't feel like going through 1h long videos to look for it lol.

 

"I don't think other men would have proclaimed love in order to get into Dorian's pants. While we know he wants a relationship, I don't think that would have been necessary because he knew that such things were foolish. Both of them would. So they did whatever, had fun, and that was it."

 

Ah, I may have worded it wrong, but of what I read of other's work about Dorian, there were some where they headcanon that Dorian may have once been idealistic and hopeful with his past paramours, because they expressed enthusiastic interest. As in they showered Dorian with attention and affection in order to get Dorian behind closed doors. That is what I meant. Actually, when put that way, I can see why Dorian would be confused, considering the IQ never actually makes it clear he wants things serious until Dorian brings it to a point.

 

I honestly wonder about the whole Rilenius thing. Cole said to Dorian, "He would've said yes" makes me wonder if Dorian had something similar to what he has with the IQ, but because they're in Tevinter, he was afraid to even bring up the status of their relationship.

[Qun00]

It warms my heart that friendship matters just as much as romance.

[nightscrawl]

^thank you for the dialogue! I was looking for that one, but didn't feel like going through 1h long videos to look for it lol.
 
"I don't think other men would have proclaimed love in order to get into Dorian's pants. While we know he wants a relationship, I don't think that would have been necessary because he knew that such things were foolish. Both of them would. So they did whatever, had fun, and that was it."
 
Ah, I may have worded it wrong, but of what I read of other's work about Dorian, there were some where they headcanon that Dorian may have once been idealistic and hopeful with his past paramours, because they expressed enthusiastic interest. As in they showered Dorian with attention and affection in order to get Dorian behind closed doors. That is what I meant. Actually, when put that way, I can see why Dorian would be confused, considering the IQ never actually makes it clear he wants things serious until Dorian brings it to a point.
 
I honestly wonder about the whole Rilenius thing. Cole said to Dorian, "He would've said yes" makes me wonder if Dorian had something similar to what he has with the IQ, but because they're in Tevinter, he was afraid to even bring up the status of their relationship.

 
I would caution against reading too much into other player head-canons. They will be based on their own perspective, with their own Inquisitor relationships with Dorian, and on their personal experience. I don't exempt myself from this. I make an effort to not inject my own head-canon when I talk about Dorian, preferring to use his actual in-game dialogue and bits from his WoT Vol. 2 entry.
 
As far as Rilienus is concerned, the one banter line is very vague, as is Dorian's reaction. From that we can't infer what kind of relationship they had, whether they even had sex, how long ago it was, or even Dorian's depth of feeling for him. For all we know he may have known Rilienus several years ago and this largely amounted to a major crush that he never did anything about. There are ALL sort of possibilities. I've seen some players suggest that the guy Dorian was "caught" with in the WoT entry was Rilienus, but that is also just conjecture. There is no proof either way and players simply want to make some sort of connection when there is very little evidence for such.
 
But again, I don't think that past sexual encounters would have had that kind of component because it wouldn't have been necessary. Both guys would understand that it was only about pleasure and nothing more. Dorian does like and enjoy sex and that plays a factor as well. I can certainly see him having sex with past friends that showed interest and just enjoying it what for it is.
 
Now, that's not to say that I don't think Dorian has never been in love before, because I think he probably has, given his personality. But I don't think that he would have allowed it to carry over into any expectations. Or even if he did, that it would only take ONE time for any sort of hope to be dashed for him to disallow any feelings of that sort to develop.
 
It doesn't often come through, but part of Dorian's personality is that he is jaded by his experiences and is cynical about the motivations of others. He may have inner hopes, but naive he is certainly not, and I think he learned that a long time ago.
 
As for the Inquisitor being unclear, I think it depends on the dialogue paths you take. As I said in a previous post, most of the 1 options are more emotional in nature and these are what I typically take in my conversations with him. I RP that my Inquisitor feels that he's been pretty clear about what he wants and is initially confused when Dorian raises the issue after they've had sex. He has clarity after Dorian explains it but there is that initial confusion. I honestly think that in that scenario, with those dialogue options chosen, Dorian's uncertainly is a result of his own inner issues rather than what the Inquisitor says or doesn't say.


Of course, all of this is just my own personal viewpoint of the character. I've come to these views based on the game, the WoT bits, and also from really involved conversations I've had with people in this thread and elsewhere. If someone has a different perspective that I disagree with, or that doesn't completely jive with my own, well that's fine too. We all look at people, both real and fictional, differently based on our own experiences.

(I don't intentionally argue with people in this thread, I just relish any opportunity to go on about the man. And I do go on, I know.)

[nightscrawl]

It warms my heart that friendship matters just as much as romance.

Spoiler

 
This is one reason I factor a strong friendship into the romance as I head-canon it. I think Dorian would consider the Inquisitor his best friend either way, but the romance adds that extra little bit.

[Gervaise]

I feel the same way.   I think Dorian and my Inquisitor are best friends as well as lovers, which is why I describe them as soul mates.   However, I do like the fact that he looks upon your friendship as so important to him even when you are not lovers and I find his relationship with my Solas romance as particularly touching and mutually supportive.   Also his words when she is following up on the revelation he is gay seem almost wistful; like they are both thinking "if only" and then she has all that heartbreak because the way was left clear for her to romance Solas.    What I love about Dorian is that he holds to his word and he is utterly loyal; the only big secret that he initially keeps from you is that he is gay but that's it.    Then in Trespasser he values your friendship so much he gives you the crystal to stay in touch and the epilogue confirms how much you mean to him, whether friend or lover.

[nightscrawl]

Eh, I don't really consider his sexuality a "secret" that he kept from anyone. By this I'm not inferring that he is "obvious" or anything of the sort, but rather that it is none of my, or anyone else's, business. I keep to this philosophy with general dialogues as well: I never ask if he and Felix were involved, or ask Leliana whether she and the Divine were involved.

 

I have multiple feelings about the way it was handled with a female PC, but it has nothing to do with Dorian himself, and more with some decisions on the part of the devs. The first is that a lesbian PC can't also express solidarity in the scene with Halward, or "come out" as the male PC can, or remark on it at any time after that point.

 

I'm also not crazy about the "I think you led me on" remark the fem PC can say, but I realize that is a personal preference as I'm sure there are players who felt that it did indeed fit their role-play, which is just fine. His response was sweet, and typical of his personality, I just didn't like that I seemed to be accusing him in the scene. I only took it the one time, and probably will not again if I ever play another fem PC (likely not). Then again, I went into that play with the specific intent to see his response in that scene, so I did flirt with him up until that point, but I typically only flirt with whomever I pick as my LI for a play.

[Gervaise]

The thing is not everyone who played the game would necessarily have seen the advanced publicity about Dorian being gay.   Now I had but I was rather puzzled when I was offered a flirt icon, took it and got a positive response.   Then at the next opportunity I was offered one, I took it again and once more there was no hint to my character that she might be heading for disappointment.  That is where I feel it stops being something private, when you can see someone is really keen and you continue to encourage their advances, thus giving them totally the wrong impression about where it is leading.   So I really was thinking, what is going on here because while I appreciate that Dorian enjoys being flirtatious, you would think he might at least drop a hint of his sexuality.  What if she had not taken things further with Solas because she felt more attracted to Dorian?   I know in hindsight this might have been a good thing but the fact is Solas is one character where if you don't take the heart icon when it is offered the first time he takes you to the Fade, that's it, you've missed your chance.   That wasn't a problem for me because I knew a romance with Dorian wasn't on the cards, but I know some people have said it did come as quite a blow to them when they discovered Dorian was gay because they didn't know in advance.  

 

With my Solas romance I did take the mages path, so I knew Dorian far earlier than with the Templar route.   When he said to her in the future "Don't worry I'll look after you," she was hooked.    Then we had the flirting.   Luckily, because she allied with the mages, the Dorian personal quest cropped up pretty quickly, so she didn't have long to find out he was gay.    Nevertheless, I feel it was perfectly justified for her to accuse him (very good naturedly) of leading her on.   It didn't harm their relationship but it was now a more honest one.    That is why I call it his "secret".    Quite a few of the characters have something that you don't know about them but of course compared with Solas or Blackwall, Dorian's little revelation isn't earth shattering, just disappointing if your character happens to be female.

[MisterJB]

What does Dorian want?

 

This is a serious question. I mean, we receive the generic "fight corruption in Tevinter" but what does Dorian considers to be corruption? I mean, he is obviously against blood magic but he defends the principle of slavery; at the very least, he claims it's not all that different from inescapable poverty and his ally in the Magisterium, Maevaris Tilani owns slaves; and his dialogue in general seems to imply that he looks down somewhat on Southerners and non-mages. This dialogue with Blackwall comes to mind:

 

• Dorian: I've often wondered what the average man thinks about mage freedom.
• Blackwall: If you really cared, you could ask.
• Blackwall: Oh, but wait. That would involve talking to a dirty commoner like me.
• Dorian: True. So much for that.

Understand, this is not an attack upon Dorian. I honestly don't understand what he is rebelling against.

[Gervaise]

Well if you let Calpurnia go, Dorian says that Tevinter could do with more like her.   Her aim is to have everyone in Tevinter reach their true potential and for slaves to be uplifted to true citizens of the Imperium.   She also wants Tevinter to be a crafter of wonders and a beacon of hope against the savage Qunari.    So I assume he broadly supports these aims.   Part of the reason for opposing blood magic is that it gives you an unfair advantage in the struggle for power; you don't reach the top because of your true abilities and worth but because essentially you cheated.  

 

Before Alexius went off the rails he was someone who wanted to improve education not just of mages but also the Soporati.   Again this would suggest wanting people to advance through genuine merit rather than simply whose family they come from or their willingness to use questionable means to get their way.     This extract in World of Thedas 2 quoting Dorian's letter to a friend after hearing that Alexius has joined the Venatori also throws some light on it.  "Alexius always told us that the only way to restore the Imperium was through integrity.  If we mages didn't have it and enforce it among our own kind, how could we expect other not to live in fear.  Yet he said the same thing to you as to me.   I still don't think he actually believed the words coming out of his own mouth."

 

Dorian's father always said that that blood magic "was the last resort of good men" and Alexius spoke out against the corruption in the Imperium.   It is because of what happened with them both that Dorian's greatest fear is temptation.   However, it was their influence, particularly that of Alexius, on Dorian as a young man that makes him so determined to continue the fight because he believes otherwise that Tevinter will be destroyed by the corruption.

 

So I assume this is what Dorian is fighting for.    As he tells you, he loves his country and wants to save it.

[Xilizhra]

Part of the reason for opposing blood magic is that it gives you an unfair advantage in the struggle for power; you don't reach the top because of your true abilities and worth but because essentially you cheated. 

It's only cheating if you steal other people's blood.

[nightscrawl]

What does Dorian want?

 

This is a serious question. I mean, we receive the generic "fight corruption in Tevinter" but what does Dorian considers to be corruption? I mean, he is obviously against blood magic but he defends the principle of slavery; at the very least, he claims it's not all that different from inescapable poverty and his ally in the Magisterium, Maevaris Tilani owns slaves; and his dialogue in general seems to imply that he looks down somewhat on Southerners and non-mages. This dialogue with Blackwall comes to mind:

 

• Dorian: I've often wondered what the average man thinks about mage freedom.
• Blackwall: If you really cared, you could ask.
• Blackwall: Oh, but wait. That would involve talking to a dirty commoner like me.
• Dorian: True. So much for that.

Understand, this is not an attack upon Dorian. I honestly don't understand what he is rebelling against.

 

I don't think it's fair to single out that banter with Blackwall as an example of Dorian looking down on whomever. With Blackwall specifically, the relationship evolves over time and Blackwall sees that he misjudged Dorian in the beginning. Dorian responds in that manner because Blackwall expects him to and he plays into it. Dorian does not explain himself lightly. If others want to judge him based on petty, superficial things, then so be it; he's dealt with it before and knows he'll deal with it again, in Tevinter as well as in the South.

 

To your other question, the corruption is the same type that pervades real-world political systems: nepotism, cronyism, the malicious tearing down of one person (or house) to raise another -- all the same kinds of things you find in Orlais and their Game. Then you have the addition of blood magic.

 

If you factor in his homosexuality and how that has negatively impacted his life, there is that type of corruption as well. For a society to be so consumed by the appearance of propriety that one feels they need to hide their true self is a terrible thing.

 

 

It's only cheating if you steal other people's blood.

 

We've discussed this in this thread before. Halward's view that it is "the resort of the weak mind" says it all. It's cheating in that the person is not relying on their own natural mental acuity in order to really play the Game. I very highly doubt that Halward likes what his desperate resort of using blood magic -- not even against his son, but in general -- says about himself. You can see it on his face what Dorian mentions this; he looks ashamed.

 

That is all I'll say about the matter. I'd rather not turn this thread into a debate about blood magic as there are other threads for that.

[Reznore57]

What does Dorian want?

 

This is a serious question. I mean, we receive the generic "fight corruption in Tevinter" but what does Dorian considers to be corruption? I mean, he is obviously against blood magic but he defends the principle of slavery; at the very least, he claims it's not all that different from inescapable poverty and his ally in the Magisterium, Maevaris Tilani owns slaves; and his dialogue in general seems to imply that he looks down somewhat on Southerners and non-mages. This dialogue with Blackwall comes to mind:

 

• Dorian: I've often wondered what the average man thinks about mage freedom.
• Blackwall: If you really cared, you could ask.
• Blackwall: Oh, but wait. That would involve talking to a dirty commoner like me.
• Dorian: True. So much for that.

Understand, this is not an attack upon Dorian. I honestly don't understand what he is rebelling against.

 

He is rebelling against the upper classes.That's where he comes from.

In Tevinter you have a number of things to do or be born with for your opinions to actually matter.Being a mage , being upper class , on the outside looking like you're some kind of paragon (blood magic!ME?!!Never!!) while actually you're using blood magic on a daily basis to kill your rivals.

He's rebelling against thousand of years of tradition , Tevinter survived by being ruthless but they are also stuck in their ways and it's now a problem.They can't defeat the Qunari , they have cultist like the Venatori getting more powerful ,if I remember correctly Alexius was trying to get more money poured into education instead of the war effort against the Qunari.

 

I don't think Dorian is very concerned by the poors and lower class , I mean he probably feels bad but he has no idea what they are going through , imho he wants to change what's happening with the ruling class and hope it will have a positive effects on the peons.

[nightscrawl]

I don't think Dorian is very concerned by the poors and lower class , I mean he probably feels bad but he has no idea what they are going through , imho he wants to change what's happening with the ruling class and hope it will have a positive effects on the peons.

I think this is probably an accurate description. Dorian is a caring, compassionate person, but the circumstances in his life have enabled him to not give much thought to the lower classes. Even regarding slavery, he explicitly states that he "never gave it much thought" until coming south. Some people lambaste him for that, but I see it as the very natural result of his upbringing. He's not malicious about it, but has never truly been confronted with those sorts of issues.

[Catilina]

Why would Dorian thought about the slaves? Since he lived, they were there around him, like furniture. Mostly we dont thinking about furniture, except, if they are destroyed and we need to buy new ones instead.

 

Just look at the Roman Empire.

 

This is not evil, it is not even really insensitive. Sadly, but simply human trait. – I think.

 

Just few people thinking about, that surrounds them. The few incite revolution, or the mayority will silence them prematurely.

[nightscrawl]

^ Well, it actually is insensitive, yes. However, the very fact that Dorian admits to his own failing and ignorance about the issue is a point in his favor, I think.

 

I've never cared for the slavery conversation, and not because of what Dorian says, but because of the options given the player for response. Dorian approaches the issue from an intellectual level, but the Inquisitor's first round of responses, and most of the second round, are all based on emotion. You can't have a reasonable discussion with someone when they lash out at you.

[Gervaise]

To some extent Dorian is right when he makes the comparison between the slavery of Tevinter and the poverty in the slums of the south.   The southern nobility try to kid themselves they hold the moral high ground because the people working for them aren't actually slaves but very often the conditions are worse then for a slave in Tevinter (who after all are property and therefore have a value) and almost impossible to escape from (particularly for an elf).    In Tevinter it may also be better to be a slave of a good master than a free peasant.    Fenris' sister certainly seemed to think so and Denarius wasn't even what I would call a good master.

 

Where I was annoyed, but this was a fault of the writers not Dorian, is that he suggests that the Inquisitor has no idea more idea than he does of what it is really like to be poor.   Now for a human this is valid because they come from nobility and as a result, even in the Circle, would always have led a privileged existence.   However, the other races may well know what it is like to be poor.   The dwarf comes from the Carta.    The Vashoth is a mercenary and life has probably always been difficult since they don't really belong anywhere.   As for my elf, being a Dalish is not a camping holiday.   It is a hard, cold struggle against the elements and particularly in winter you are only one bad hunt away from starvation.  The essential point of the Dalish is that they chose this life over the alternative, not because they were richer but because they were free.   However, I couldn't say any of these things and in fact Dorian was left with the last word on the subject.    I repeat though, that is a fault of the writers, not Dorian as a character.

 

I tend to hope that as a result of his experiences in the south, Dorian is more aware of the issues around slavery.    In my own mind he returns home and makes all the slaves he inherited from his father into liberati, keeping them on as his paid servants or helping them leave Tevinter if that is what they wish.    Whether that is what happens to Dorian in game is something we will have to wait and see.