22176 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I actually think Dorian could have had pretty much the same story even if he wasn't gay.    When DG, I think it was, was recounting how various characters came to be, initially Dorian was the "rock star mage" who was going to be a rebel against Tevinter society.    Then the writers started to discuss what his motivation might have been for being a rebel and someone suggested "What if he was gay?".      The main objection I had to this when I heard it, was why couldn't someone see their society was wrong and want to change things without having personally suffered because of their sexuality?     Still that did allow an interesting slant to his character.

 

Anyway, LinksOcarina, I found your article really interesting and would agree that a lot of Dorian fans don't do him justice because they concentrate on the more superficial aspects of his character.    What you say about pride being his defining characteristic is relevant to his decision about whether or not to return to Tevinter straight away at the end of the main game.   It is noticeable that if you say you need him, then he agrees to stay, whereas if you offer to go with him, he rejects this and goes after a short time, and if you are understanding and supportive the same thing happens and he makes the comment "and so my heart is broken".   That is probably the dialogue string that had people upset the most because he does seem to totally misunderstand what most people feel they are trying to say.   The first one comes across as the Inquisitor being selfish and needy and Dorian even jokes about you using "emotional blackmail".     It's like you can't win.   

 

I also feel that the determination of the writers to send Dorian back to Tevinter without the Inquisitor has more to do with the way they want to story to progress than actually being a true reflection of his character and his relationship with his Amatus.       It is noticeable that whether your are his lover or his friend, it is stated that you are seen as the inspiration that keeps him going in his quest to save Tevinter from itself.    I feel the sending crystal will feature as the connection  between the two in the next game and Dorian will be the link between DAI and DA4.     

 

As that is likely to be several years yet, I am enjoying myself writing my own sequel to events in DAI.   There are reasons why they are kept apart initially because both of them are involved in important activities that are important to the future of the world they live in because both of them are in a position when they can influence people for the better, but the crystal keeps them in touch and it is turning out to be very important to them both in keeping their resolve, so it turns out the epilogue is pretty accurate in that respect.

[LinksOcarina]

I actually think Dorian could have had pretty much the same story even if he wasn't gay.    When DG, I think it was, was recounting how various characters came to be, initially Dorian was the "rock star mage" who was going to be a rebel against Tevinter society.    Then the writers started to discuss what his motivation might have been for being a rebel and someone suggested "What if he was gay?".      The main objection I had to this when I heard it, was why couldn't someone see their society was wrong and want to change things without having personally suffered because of their sexuality?     Still that did allow an interesting slant to his character.

 

Anyway, LinksOcarina, I found your article really interesting and would agree that a lot of Dorian fans don't do him justice because they concentrate on the more superficial aspects of his character.    What you say about pride being his defining characteristic is relevant to his decision about whether or not to return to Tevinter straight away at the end of the main game.   It is noticeable that if you say you need him, then he agrees to stay, whereas if you offer to go with him, he rejects this and goes after a short time, and if you are understanding and supportive the same thing happens and he makes the comment "and so my heart is broken".   That is probably the dialogue string that had people upset the most because he does seem to totally misunderstand what most people feel they are trying to say.   The first one comes across as the Inquisitor being selfish and needy and Dorian even jokes about you using "emotional blackmail".     It's like you can't win.   

 

I also feel that the determination of the writers to send Dorian back to Tevinter without the Inquisitor has more to do with the way they want to story to progress than actually being a true reflection of his character and his relationship with his Amatus.       It is noticeable that whether your are his lover or his friend, it is stated that you are seen as the inspiration that keeps him going in his quest to save Tevinter from itself.    I feel the sending crystal will feature as the connection  between the two in the next game and Dorian will be the link between DAI and DA4.     

 

As that is likely to be several years yet, I am enjoying myself writing my own sequel to events in DAI.   There are reasons why they are kept apart initially because both of them are involved in important activities that are important to the future of the world they live in because both of them are in a position when they can influence people for the better, but the crystal keeps them in touch and it is turning out to be very important to them both in keeping their resolve, so it turns out the epilogue is pretty accurate in that respect.

 

I'm kind of banking on Dorian being a party member again in Dragon Age 4, all things considered. It will be very interesting to see how his convictions change, if they do at all, and how the Lucerni help shape the next game at least. 

[nightscrawl]

It is noticeable that if you say you need him, then he agrees to stay, whereas if you offer to go with him, he rejects this and goes after a short time, and if you are understanding and supportive the same thing happens and he makes the comment "and so my heart is broken".

Just to clarify, the offer to go with him is independent of the two final choices. It is an optional star dialogue option that occurs before you say "I need you," or "I understand," so it's not a 2/3 go/stay scenario, as you seem to be implying.

 

However, regardless of whatever option you choose, he ALWAYS says he is staying in the South "for now" as part of the party dialogue, so his eventual return to Tevinter, whether it comes sooner or later, should come as no surprise to anyone.

[Gervaise]

It didn't come as a surprise that he wanted to go back to Tevinter.   Right from when you first meet him he says how much he misses it.    The problem for me in the main game was that it seemed to suggest that if he did return to Tevinter then that would signal an end of the relationship.   What made the difference in Trespasser was that Dorian was adamant that it didn't have to mean the end of the relationship and that he was confident that they could make it work long distance by staying in touch, the means for which he provided (so much more reliable than letters or birds).    He also says that they will be apart "for now", clearly implying that this is not going to be a permanent situation and eventually they will be reunited once both of them have done what they need to do.     I was perfectly comfortable with that and find it hard to understand how many people seem to regard the outcome in a negative way.   

 

There are so many reasons why Tevinter must not fall to the Qunari and its continued survival may well be necessary to counter Solas; so it is vitally important that Dorian is there with his voice of reason countering those Magisters who are more concerned with their own petty power play, so the Magisterium will eventually be brought to see that they need to reform in order  to survive.    Meanwhile, his Amatus has important things he needs to do as well that necessitate them being apart, although in my case these duties are less restrictive than they would be if I hadn't disbanded the Inquisition.     My Lavellan isn't obliged to stay in the south to serve the Divine because he is no longer the Inquisitor, but as an elf he knows he has a vital role to play in countering the influence of both Solas and the Qun on the elven communities throughout Thedas. So initially at least that is what he is doing, travelling around the Freemarches talking to the city elves and helping them (Orlais and Ferelden can hang themselves if they are too stupid to realise what needs to be done), plus attending the Arlathaven trying to convince the Dalish to stay clear of Solas (not easy when word has got back to them that your lover is a Tevinter Magister).   Obviously the slant will be different according to the race you play.     Even if he doesn't take a visible role in the next game, I am hopeful that Dorian's Amatus/friend will at least be acknowledged and alive.    What would really annoy me is if they killed the Inquisitor off in some way between the two in order to counter any expectation of their return as the PC (even though I am one of those who feels it would make sense if they were considering their personal link to Solas which a new PC would not have).

[Witch Cocktor]

It didn't come as a surprise that he wanted to go back to Tevinter.   Right from when you first meet him he says how much he misses it.    The problem for me in the main game was that it seemed to suggest that if he did return to Tevinter then that would signal an end of the relationship.   What made the difference in Trespasser was that Dorian was adamant that it didn't have to mean the end of the relationship and that he was confident that they could make it work long distance by staying in touch, the means for which he provided (so much more reliable than letters or birds).    He also says that they will be apart "for now", clearly implying that this is not going to be a permanent situation and eventually they will be reunited once both of them have done what they need to do.     I was perfectly comfortable with that and find it hard to understand how many people seem to regard the outcome in a negative way.   

I have a hard time understanding why you have a hard time understanding why people don't like the outcome.

 

Just because Dorian is confident that he and me and make it worth long distance, doesn't mean I am confident. A long distance relationship is not what I want, I want more than that. Does that make me selfish? Maybe, but I don't give a damn. But is Dorian any better? At this point, HE IS THE ONE making the rules of relationship. He goes to Tevinter, I can't go with him, we're long distance, our only communication is a message crystal and we get to meet once in a while, and the epilogue slides do not give me any faith that we meet regularly either. Dorian is out there, dealing with a war, trying to find out who killed(?) his father, trying to reform Tevinter. That is a extremely big task, and for him to say '' this is just for now '' doesn't help at all, when what he is trying to accomplish can take a BIG amount of time. Not only that, but during the time he is in Tevinter, he is at immediate danger 24/7 and I can't be there to protect him or help him. I'm just supposed to wait for my significant other to deal with the whole Tevinter issue, then we can start our life together.

 

But can we really? When Dorian has successfully done what he wanted to accomplish, I doubt there's any turning back afterwards. He has a new life in Tevinter, in most likely a very important position, with his duty being to Tevinter. I feel like after he has accomplished what he wanted, I will still be second to Tevinter. Dorian has given me nothing to imagine otherwise. It's obviously a hard place for the both of us, but I feel like me, the inquisitor, am getting the shittier deal with this.

 

So he gets to recite the rules of the relationship, and I can only silently disagree and wait for my darling partner to take his sweet ass time dealing with his home country. And his snark and his half-assed apology in Trespasser just makes me so much more furious. Whenever I put my heart on the table, I get shot down. It's so incredibly frustrating. This all could've been avoided, if the dialogue was more emotional for both of the parties, and Dorian would have done everything in his power to convince me that this is going to work, '' my passion for you and my love for you is the greatest motivation, I will NOT let Tevinter rip us apart more than it should! '' ANYTHING like that would've made the relationship much better, because at least then I know his heart is in this as well.

 

But alas, we get a selfish, snarky charmer who seems to lack any sympathy for what I will have to go through when I'm apart for him, and he seems to not value my love for him at all. I know this is not the case, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. He is the star in the relationship, he is the victim, he is the one who makes the rules, and I follow and take whatever guff he throws at me, because I love him so much apparently.

 

I would NEVER be in a relationship with a person like Dorian in real life. He is inconsiderate of my feelings and me, and only does what he wants, without taking any input from me. I give, he takes, that's not a relationship at all. The whole Tevinter thing is ambitious, and I wish him well in his journey, but I can only support him as a friend, not as a lover.

 

We are all different people. Some people will be 100% fine with the relationship you have with Dorian, some won't be as satisfied. I'm not satisfied, and that's not wrong for me to feel so. I'm not saying how I interpret the relationship is a fact, the right, and how the writers meant it, but it's just how I see things. For me, the cons outweigh the pros, and I don't like the relationship. If you do, great. I just don't like to headcanon TOO much in an already not-so-good relationship.

[nightscrawl]

The problem for me in the main game was that it seemed to suggest that if he did return to Tevinter then that would signal an end of the relationship.

Eh, I never looked at it that way, but that's just me.

The only issue I have with the relationship overall is with some of the dialogue options, particularly those relating to his return to Tevinter. I don't find any of them adequate to express how my Inquisitor feels about the situation, so I have to make do with what is available. With most unsatisfactory dialogues I can just pick the lesser of two or three evils and move on, but not with this one, probably because I feel that my Inquisitor is not able to emote in a satisfactory enough fashion (due to the dialogue limitation) for the way I RP him.

 

The saving grace for me in the Trespasser conversation comes when you can say, "Do you think this is funny?" (or something along those lines). Dorian grows serious and replies, "I don't think anything about this is funny." To be honest, the thing that most pisses me off about that whole thing is the way that the Inquisitor finds out about it -- by stumbling upon a going away party. I mean, wtf? And that is the primary reason he's pissed when the conversation starts.

 

I'd really like to see all of the dialogue options for the conversation, but I'm not really keen to play Trespasser again. I've only played it once on release, never again since, and just find the whole thing too depressing to play again, even seven months later.

[nightscrawl]

... trying to find out who killed(?) his father...

Bit of a subject change, but what does the "(?)" mean here?

[Witch Cocktor]

Bit of a subject change, but what does the "(?)" mean here?

'' My father is dead, assassinated I believe. '' I think that's how the conversation went?

I was just under the impression that what or who essentially killed his father is still under investigation during Trespasser.

I guess I worded it a bit wrong. I think he is dead, sure, but I'm not sure if it's WHAT killed him or WHO killed him.

Does it make any difference in the end? I don't know, we'll see.

[nightscrawl]

^ Oh! I understand. I don't recall the wording, as I've only heard it once. I suppose I just took for granted that Halward was, in fact, assassinated, since that is common there.

 

I was also a bit disappointed we didn't get to probe a bit further with this. Not necessarily about the (supposed) assassination itself, but about whether Dorian had been in contact with Halward, if they had come to any sort of understanding, and so on. I think all that Dorian says regarding that is that he wasn't aware that Halward had kept him as heir, which seems to suggest that they had minimal contact, even after he returned to Tevinter.

 

I'm actually wondering if this will be revealed in the upcoming arcs of the Magekiller comic, but I think that would be a rather large leap. Considering Dorian's recent appearance in the comic, I'd prefer not to see him again, since he amounted to nothing more than a sassy (they really got too carried away here) device to impart a bit of Tevinter trivia to the reader; utterly superfluous. Hell, they could have had Calpernia, or even the damn Archon himself, throw out a single line referencing the perrepatae and have had no need for the cameo at all.

[Gervaise]

Whilst I was happy enough with the way things turned out in Trespasser, I do think whoever was responsible for overseeing the way the storylines played out really did not think about how badly it could come across.    In my case, I not only found out about him leaving through the surprise party (and yes I took the angry option there) but it was also following on from Varric's little "joke" with Cassandra about proposing marriage.   I still think the writers were utterly heartless in coming up with that one.   It's fine if you LI does propose/agree to marriage but really insensitive to give you the idea it might be an option, only to have it dashed by discovering your LI is leaving. (As I say constantly, it was even worse if you were in a Solas romance).   

 

I have to admit, I just assumed that Dorian was correct in his assumptions, knowing what things are like in Tevinter, but I suppose it could have been from natural causes.  I'm pretty sure he says about having seen Halward occasionally when back in the Tevinter.   May be it was in a subsequent conversation when he talks about also seeing his mother who was drunk as usual.   Or may be that was a conversation you only have as a friend.    Having played through both options I may have got them mixed up.  

 

I suppose the reason I am so positive about Dorian is that it is a far better outcome than my Solas romance and a step up on my ones from previous games.   I still think Fenris takes the award for the hardest to keep going.    He walks out on you straight after sex and then you are left dangling for 3 years not knowing why, apart from having to accept that he has "issues".   If your Hawke takes up with anyone else on the rebound, then that is it; the romance is over even if it was only a fling.   There is no option to ask Fenris to forgive you for your indiscretion even though you have to suck it up and forgive him for the way he treated you.   So for some reason your Hawke has to be a great psychologist and realise that they just have to hang in there and eventually Fenris will get around to telling you what in the hell was going on.   I know it ends okay but it is a minefield getting there.     Then in DAI Hawke says they sent Fenris away because they didn't want him to get hurt defending them.   Seriously?   

 

I think DG must have serious issues of his own because all of his characters that I have romanced seem to have "issues" and say things that you have to ignore or put up with or have to hang in there often being rejected and insulted if you want to keep it going, from Viconia back in Baldurs Gate 2, through Zevran and Fenris, to Dorian.   Hell, even Alistair was a challenge if you were anything other than a human noble; you are the love of his life until he gets made king when the best you can hope for is to persuade him to let you be his mistress and then only if you chose the right dialogue option to "harden" him.

 

Still with Dorian I find there are other things, such as the way he looks at you, which say far more than words.    Even if they fell short in the dialogue department, they certainly seemed to get the visuals spot on.   Well I think so any way.     

[nightscrawl]

I think DG must have serious issues of his own because all of his characters that I have romanced seem to have "issues" and say things that you have to ignore or put up with or have to hang in there often being rejected and insulted if you want to keep it going, from Viconia back in Baldurs Gate 2, through Zevran and Fenris, to Dorian.   Hell, even Alistair was a challenge if you were anything other than a human noble; you are the love of his life until he gets made king when the best you can hope for is to persuade him to let you be his mistress and then only if you chose the right dialogue option to "harden" him.

Heh, I think he just likes the delicious fan tears, to be honest. I don't know how he's going to maintain his youth for the next few years without them.

I also never had a problem with the way the Alistair thing worked out for my mage Warden, but I've observed that I seem to be in the minority, at least as far as forum or Tumblr posters go. It's just another one of those personal differences between players.

I was never insane over Alistair like I am with Dorian, but I suppose my experience with that romance has accustomed me to the long distance relationship types in these games.

[Witch Cocktor]

I suppose the reason I am so positive about Dorian is that it is a far better outcome than my Solas romance and a step up on my ones from previous games.   I still think Fenris takes the award for the hardest to keep going.    He walks out on you straight after sex and then you are left dangling for 3 years not knowing why, apart from having to accept that he has "issues".   If your Hawke takes up with anyone else on the rebound, then that is it; the romance is over even if it was only a fling.   There is no option to ask Fenris to forgive you for your indiscretion even though you have to suck it up and forgive him for the way he treated you.   So for some reason your Hawke has to be a great psychologist and realise that they just have to hang in there and eventually Fenris will get around to telling you what in the hell was going on.   I know it ends okay but it is a minefield getting there.     Then in DAI Hawke says they sent Fenris away because they didn't want him to get hurt defending them.   Seriously?   

 

The thing with Solas romance is, it's heartbreaking, but it's also magnificent and extremely relevant to the story. The writers don't go out of their way to paint a '' good guy '' picture of Solas either, when it comes to the relationship. He is the bastard who breaks your heart, end of story. You are allowed to feel mad, sad, depressed, annoyed, broken down, everything. And it's SUCH an important and meaningful relationship. If he was male romanceable, I'd possibly canon romance him IMMEDIATELY, and I don't even like him. It's clear that you are the victim and the one who got dumped, and you can make it very clear to Solas how much you despise him for breaking your heart, IIRC.

 

With Dorian though, you are kinda stuck with this relationship that you might not want to be in, just waiting for your significant other to deal with the situation in his home country for god knows how long, with occasional, random visits and a message crystal to communicate. And all this time you have to fear for his life as well. When you bring up wanting to come with him, and disapproving of him going, the game tells you '' shush you, this is Dorian time, you don't matter, you aren't the victim, he is. '' It sucks so bad. I'd much rather have my heart broken, than live my life in depression because my significant other doesn't want me '' hurt '', WAITING to get my heart broken. The uncertainty of everything is too much, at least with Solas it's clear what has happened. He broke your heart, end of story.

 

Fenris is my favorite relationship in the whole DA series... Yes, he leaves you for 3 years. That sucks. But you know what? He also regrets it and apologizes for it, saying that if he could turn back time, he'd approach the situation differently. THAT'S WHAT IS GREAT! The game doesn't go out of it's way to make Fenris be a victim either. He knows what he has done and regrets it, and that's why I continue to love him and it pays off in the end. 

 

I'm fine with there being obstacles in a relationship, but what I do not enjoy is the narrative ending in an obstacle, or those obstacles being painted as non-issues and neutral.

[Hazegurl]

I have a hard time understanding why you have a hard time understanding why people don't like the outcome.

 

Just because Dorian is confident that he and me and make it worth long distance, doesn't mean I am confident. A long distance relationship is not what I want, I want more than that. Does that make me selfish? Maybe, but I don't give a damn. But is Dorian any better? At this point, HE IS THE ONE making the rules of relationship. He goes to Tevinter, I can't go with him, we're long distance, our only communication is a message crystal and we get to meet once in a while, and the epilogue slides do not give me any faith that we meet regularly either. Dorian is out there, dealing with a war, trying to find out who killed(?) his father, trying to reform Tevinter. That is a extremely big task, and for him to say '' this is just for now '' doesn't help at all, when what he is trying to accomplish can take a BIG amount of time. Not only that, but during the time he is in Tevinter, he is at immediate danger 24/7 and I can't be there to protect him or help him. I'm just supposed to wait for my significant other to deal with the whole Tevinter issue, then we can start our life together.

 

But can we really? When Dorian has successfully done what he wanted to accomplish, I doubt there's any turning back afterwards. He has a new life in Tevinter, in most likely a very important position, with his duty being to Tevinter. I feel like after he has accomplished what he wanted, I will still be second to Tevinter. Dorian has given me nothing to imagine otherwise. It's obviously a hard place for the both of us, but I feel like me, the inquisitor, am getting the shittier deal with this.

 

So he gets to recite the rules of the relationship, and I can only silently disagree and wait for my darling partner to take his sweet ass time dealing with his home country. And his snark and his half-assed apology in Trespasser just makes me so much more furious. Whenever I put my heart on the table, I get shot down. It's so incredibly frustrating. This all could've been avoided, if the dialogue was more emotional for both of the parties, and Dorian would have done everything in his power to convince me that this is going to work, '' my passion for you and my love for you is the greatest motivation, I will NOT let Tevinter rip us apart more than it should! '' ANYTHING like that would've made the relationship much better, because at least then I know his heart is in this as well.

 

But alas, we get a selfish, snarky charmer who seems to lack any sympathy for what I will have to go through when I'm apart for him, and he seems to not value my love for him at all. I know this is not the case, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. He is the star in the relationship, he is the victim, he is the one who makes the rules, and I follow and take whatever guff he throws at me, because I love him so much apparently.

 

I would NEVER be in a relationship with a person like Dorian in real life. He is inconsiderate of my feelings and me, and only does what he wants, without taking any input from me. I give, he takes, that's not a relationship at all. The whole Tevinter thing is ambitious, and I wish him well in his journey, but I can only support him as a friend, not as a lover.

 

We are all different people. Some people will be 100% fine with the relationship you have with Dorian, some won't be as satisfied. I'm not satisfied, and that's not wrong for me to feel so. I'm not saying how I interpret the relationship is a fact, the right, and how the writers meant it, but it's just how I see things. For me, the cons outweigh the pros, and I don't like the relationship. If you do, great. I just don't like to headcanon TOO much in an already not-so-good relationship.

I agree, you really have no say so in the relationship, none whatsoever. Your only options are listen to Dorian, make a comment or plea, he does whatever he likes anyway, you accept it.  The only option you have is to break up with him before the game is done because you don't even have the option to break up with him in Trespasser (at least I don't think).  I don't mind Dorian saving his country, and I like the whole power couple aspect of it. What I don't like is the possibility of being put on the back burner in favor of a task that could never be completed in Dorian's lifetime.  Tevinter has been screwed up for a very long time. I think, realistically speaking, that Dorian can only try to steer the country in a new path and nothing more.  Because fixing it in 5, 10, 20, 30 years just doesn't seem at all possible.  So the question is, how long does the IQ has to wait and play number 2 to Tevinter? This is why I like the idea of my IQ keeping the Inquisition going with the headcanon of him using it for his own selfish gains. Otherwise he's just stuck chasing Solas and waiting for Dorian.  Not really a good outlook there.

[Reznore57]

My Inqui is busy with his own issues at the end of Trespasser.

I imagine those might even clash with Dorian's interests .

The whole Dalish thing , Solas being up north gathering elves , my Inqui would totally ruin Tevinter if it meant saving more elves .

 

Anyway I'm not bothered by Dorian romance .

Does it suck the last romance scene dialogue is a "K , thanks , bye?" :Yep.

Does it suck the Inqui can't break up and says he's not into long distance relationship :Yep.

 

But Dorian made it clear he wanted to go back to Tevinter and he didn't want the Inquisitor to overshadow him.Which is fair enough , the Quizzy is not a random guy , he's the equivalent of a superstar or the President of the U.S as far as status goes.

It's tough , it wasn't the Quizzy choice but that's how it is.

Besides  numerous time Dorian is bothered by his status causing issue to the Inquisitor , nor does he want to look like he's taking advantage.

 

The way I see it Dorian is a 30 years old + looser as far as Tevinter goes.

The best thing he managed to do was to become an apprentice , but that went down the toilet .

He might despise his upbringing , but clearly he wants to become an important figure in his country and he wants to influence politics over there.

So going from the raised to be Archon to penniless renegade must have stink a bit .

And you can add the fact that in Trespasser , every things he won in Tevinter mostly came through his father.Money , status as magister , diplomat all daddy's gifts.

He  managed to put a little group of magisters together with Mae, but the way he talks about it , well he got the loosers and he asks the Inqui to not laugh about it.Baby steps.

Basically you have a guy who has a urgent need to prove himself and yes he doesn't want superhero boyfriend around .Call that daddy issues or something.

 

And he did spend 3 years down south  with the Inqui , 2 just because the Inqui asked him to .I doubt those 2 years were torture , mind you , but Dorian  put aside what he truly wanted to do for a while.

You can also dump him like a hot potato almost during the whole length of the vanilla game , and he doesn't make a scene about it.

He's only in hyperventilation mode when there's a life and death situation.

 

I'm not saying Dorian is perfect or the relationship is fullfilling for every player.

But if you got a Quizzy who got stuff to do , and has no time to play lovebird in Tevinter , and keep it cool and quiet to preserve Dorian's career in politics , it ends on a realistic note.

[Gervaise]

You see I look at it rather differently.  Dorian even admits, if you choose the right dialogue option, that he doesn't want to do this but he feels he has to.   It is doing the right thing again and the fact that he only really takes the plunge on hearing of his father's death, does seem to be him trying to make amends in some way for not being the son his father wanted him to be and in Alexius' words "punishing himself".    Bear in mind also this is before everything is revealed about Solas and even before you make a decision on the Inquisition, so he doesn't want you giving up what you have to chase after him.    However, he also always tend to say the opposite of what he really feels, particularly when he does so in a jokey sort of way.    Look how he is over the birthright amulet but ultimately if you disregard what he says he wants you to do (which is leave it up to him) and go ahead and recover it, ultimately he is grateful.    What he does says is that there will always be an us and that nothing will truly keep us apart.   I just happen to take that literally.

 

So the way I play it is that after the events of Trespasser the situation has changed somewhat.    There are two imperatives; stopping Solas from destroying the world and stopping the Qun from toppling Tevinter.    We know the latter is going to occur because Solas says he hopes the Qun will aim back at Tevinter now, which is his way of saying he almost guarantees it because if those two are at each other's throats they will both be distracted from what he is getting up to, which I am pretty convinced involves poking about in ancient ruins up Tevinter way.   So while Dorian goes back to try and salvage the situation in Tevinter, the Inquisitor is chasing leads and influencing people down south with regards to Solas.    No matter what Dorian says, though, my lad is not going to stay permanently in the south until Dorian finishes what he set out to do in Tevinter, because very soon, the issue of how long it might take him is going to be irrelevant.   The Qun are going to attack the mainland and Tevinter is going to be embroiled in war.    Once that happens, Amatus is going to head north regardless.    Hench the epilogue suggesting that the Inquisitor is seen in Minrathous, because that is where he will be (or Qarinus if that is where Dorian is).    I hardly think Dorian is going to tell him to go away and unless there is a sighting of Solas somewhere down south, there is really little reason for either of them to return there.

 

So I'm not playing second fiddle to Tevinter, nor am I waiting around until I'm old and grey; I'm being proactive and going where I'm of most use, which just happens to also be where Dorian is.   Like me, my Lavellan can't just switch off his feelings for Dorian, so I wouldn't break up with him over his decision in Trespasser even if I could.   We're soul mates and when Dalish bond they bond for life.     It is why I have forged ahead and am in the process of writing my own conclusion to the story regardless of what the writers do with the romance in the future because there is no real reason why his Amatus shouldn't be with him and he'd much rather be fighting for his life alongside Dorian than serving the Chantry down south, which is essentially what you are doing if you keep the Inquisition going. 

[Witch Cocktor]

I'm glad both of you had a great experience with Dorian. I didn't. My needs don't meet Dorian's needs, and it's pointless for me to pursue a relationship with him unless I REALLY want to do some roleplay, but said inquisitor would never be my canon. My canon romanced no one, because all the male x male relationships end in uncertainty and zero stability. Both long distance relationships, where the two meet on and off and I'm supposed to be happy with that? Hell no. And not only that, my canon breathes a huge sigh of relief for getting out of the inquisition. It was hell for him and his only job now is living a mundane life somewhere secluded, hoping that in a few years, people would've forgotten his face and what he had done for Thedas.

I get it that I can't expect relationships in DA universe to be like relationships in our worlds, where the whole '' two people under the same room, almost 24/7 '' applies pretty heavily, but it's still what I want even in a fantasy universe. Two gaylords growing old together, close together. It's naive, but it's what I want.

[Catilina]

I'm glad both of you had a great experience with Dorian. I didn't. My needs don't meet Dorian's needs, and it's pointless for me to pursue a relationship with him unless I REALLY want to do some roleplay, but said inquisitor would never be my canon. My canon romanced no one, because all the male x male relationships end in uncertainty and zero stability. Both long distance relationships, where the two meet on and off and I'm supposed to be happy with that? Hell no. And not only that, my canon breathes a huge sigh of relief for getting out of the inquisition. It was hell for him and his only job now is living a mundane life somewhere secluded, hoping that in a few years, people would've forgotten his face and what he had done for Thedas.

I get it that I can't expect relationships in DA universe to be like relationships in our worlds, where the whole '' two people under the same room, almost 24/7 '' applies pretty heavily, but it's still what I want even in a fantasy universe. Two gaylords growing old together, close together. It's naive, but it's what I want.

 

At least one of these could be.

(Ps.: That's why I loved Hawke's story. Everything collapsed around him, but at least could find love. Not so little thing.)

[Hazegurl]

So I'm not playing second fiddle to Tevinter, nor am I waiting around until I'm old and grey; I'm being proactive and going where I'm of most use, which just happens to also be where Dorian is.   Like me, my Lavellan can't just switch off his feelings for Dorian, so I wouldn't break up with him over his decision in Trespasser even if I could.   We're soul mates and when Dalish bond they bond for life.     It is why I have forged ahead and am in the process of writing my own conclusion to the story regardless of what the writers do with the romance in the future because there is no real reason why his Amatus shouldn't be with him and he'd much rather be fighting for his life alongside Dorian than serving the Chantry down south, which is essentially what you are doing if you keep the Inquisition going. 

 I like a lot of what you said, but it's all a matter of personal head canon.  Once you remove head canon, what do you have? Well we won't know until DA4 but like you, I'll write my own conclusion no matter what the devs write.

 

The thing that annoyed me about the IQ is that without head canon he has no personal story of his own and no life of his own.  He simply serves everyone else's tale and ambitions, imo. Stopping Cory, chasing Solas, and supporting Dorian are not what I consider personal stories or personal ambitions. With Dorian, I love that he wants to do his own thing, I picked the supportive option in game because I didn't want to hold him back from doing what he feels he needs to do, but the IQ is almost reduced to yet another servitude like position while someone else has their own personal thing to do. That's not fun to me. Dorian wants to run off to save his country, makes promises of contact, and leaves regardless of what you think or want or feel. The only relief is a snippet of info about the crystal and getting spotted on the streets of Tevinter. None of this is inherently terrible because like I said, i do love the power couple aspects of it. Dorian saving his country, me doing my own thing, we communicate when we can. But just being in a supportive role is not very exciting.  This is why I prefer to head canon my IQ having his own personal ambitions with the Inquisition and Cory and now Solas are simply stepping stones to that and nothing more. Otherwise, it's just chasing after Solas and waiting for Dorian or trying to fight by his side and support his ambitions because without the power of the Inquisition, what could you do for Tevinter?

 

Overall, I just like the idea of my human noble wanting more out of life than saving everyone from big bad evils and serving other people's stories. I sort of have it written in my head that my IQ is working toward ruling the entire South and that reducing the numbers of the Inquisition is nothing more than a ploy to calm the nobles. Aiding Dorian, stopping Solas and pushing back the Qunari gives him the excuse to continue to build his army, and a calm North is better for the South overall.  I also sort of head canon that although my IQ loves Dorian and wants Dorian to rule as Archon, he would side with a far more ambitious Vint if it gives him the support he needs. 

[Gervaise]

Actually I think it does make a difference what race you are.   As a human noble you do have a much better chance of forging a future for yourself independent of both Dorian and the Inquisition.   People might well accept a human Inquisitor ruling the south so I can see the sense with the way your IQ's story is developing.

 

I'm an elf and my headcanon is that he is going to make the most of the window of opportunity presented by the Inquisition but with no delusions of taking overall control.   His clan in Wycome have given an example of what can be achieved in co-operation with the locals.  The Freemarches is probably the best place to try and achieve this because of the small independent states aspect, plus Varric has helpfully raised him to nobility in Kirkwall and has offered support to the City Council in Wycombe.   In my canon state the Hero of Ferelden is a city elf and Hawke's lover is Fenris.  Since Hawke is now back in Kirkwall, I'm assuming Fenris is too and is grateful to Lavellan for not letting Hawke throw her life away on some stupid idea that she was responsible for the situation with Corypheus.   So he gets the pair of them to give him an introduction to Prince Sebastian, in order to improve things for the city elves in Starkhaven, because he figures once he gets the most important city state on side, the rest are likely to follow.  You will recall that it was Sebastian who suggested to Fenris that he should train elves in his fighting skills.  He also has a small group of dedicated Dalish are on board with what he is trying to do that were recruited at the Arlathaven .   Both the Qun and Solas have recruited heavily in the alienages, so it pays to try and undermine them in the same place.   There is no future if Solas succeeds in his plan and a future of conflict if the Qun overthrow Tevinter, which is why he feels it important to focus on these things. 

 

Then it occurs to his little band that when the Qun attack Tevinter there are likely to be simultaneous uprisings among the slave population across Tevinter, organised by the Qun agents there, which is something that wasn't a factor in previous conflicts with them and thus could tip the balance in the Qun's favour.   So they travel to Tevinter (without Dorian knowing actually) in order to try and head off and take over the slave revolt from the Qun agents (or Solas').   I can actually envisage the writers doing something similar but regardless I'm having fun with it.    The outcome will probably not be the same as what the writers have planned because I want to win the elves a better life across Thedas, independent of Solas.  Still you can see how my lad is keeping himself busy, whilst still keeping in touch with his long distance lover.

[Catilina]

I do not have a problem with that Dorian is calling of the duty in Tevinter. Acceptable. The problem is that Dorian had expected at the beginning of a full commitment, but he knew that for him it is almost impossible. (Just ask him from the future). This also can understand just a little disappointing. A possible answer at the starting of romance probably would have better: Let's see how it goes... or something.

 

(Okay, I'm a stickler, then forget it )

[Gervaise]

Well if you don't jump into bed with him straight away and instead say you want to slow things down, then actually it is the Inquisitor who wants the commitment first and Dorian admits that he has no idea what is expected of him.   You can even say effectively, let's see how it goes, the actual option being: "I'm sure we'll muddle through somehow".   Dorian replies "Like the Inquisition?  Make it up as we go?"   Inquisitor: "Works for me".    This is so how my IQ actually approaches things that I just find it a shame that you can't have that dialogue and then sleep with him (get to see Dorian naked).   An alternative has Dorian saying you are trying to get him to be a unicorn and he has no idea what one looks like.    So following that path, Dorian doesn't come off in such a bad light, based on the conversation options, because he admits he really has no idea what is expected in a proper relationship but goes with it because of his feelings for the Inquisitor.

[nightscrawl]

^ Even though I don't take this path, when I watch the no-sex version I always pick the third, more serious option where you ask him if he wants to "call it off" because I prefer getting Dorian to say what he wants, and he does, but then qualifies it with the "unicorn" remark. Probably my favorite part about that dialogue is the auto-dialogue after that point where the Inquisitor says, "I'm not asking you to change." To me, that is the perfect response.

[Hazegurl]

Actually I think it does make a difference what race you are.   As a human noble you do have a much better chance of forging a future for yourself independent of both Dorian and the Inquisition.   People might well accept a human Inquisitor ruling the south so I can see the sense with the way your IQ's story is developing.

 

I'm an elf and my headcanon is that he is going to make the most of the window of opportunity presented by the Inquisition but with no delusions of taking overall control.   His clan in Wycome have given an example of what can be achieved in co-operation with the locals.  The Freemarches is probably the best place to try and achieve this because of the small independent states aspect, plus Varric has helpfully raised him to nobility in Kirkwall and has offered support to the City Council in Wycombe.   In my canon state the Hero of Ferelden is a city elf and Hawke's lover is Fenris.  Since Hawke is now back in Kirkwall, I'm assuming Fenris is too and is grateful to Lavellan for not letting Hawke throw her life away on some stupid idea that she was responsible for the situation with Corypheus.   So he gets the pair of them to give him an introduction to Prince Sebastian, in order to improve things for the city elves in Starkhaven, because he figures once he gets the most important city state on side, the rest are likely to follow.  You will recall that it was Sebastian who suggested to Fenris that he should train elves in his fighting skills.  He also has a small group of dedicated Dalish are on board with what he is trying to do that were recruited at the Arlathaven .   Both the Qun and Solas have recruited heavily in the alienages, so it pays to try and undermine them in the same place.   There is no future if Solas succeeds in his plan and a future of conflict if the Qun overthrow Tevinter, which is why he feels it important to focus on these things. 

 

Then it occurs to his little band that when the Qun attack Tevinter there are likely to be simultaneous uprisings among the slave population across Tevinter, organised by the Qun agents there, which is something that wasn't a factor in previous conflicts with them and thus could tip the balance in the Qun's favour.   So they travel to Tevinter (without Dorian knowing actually) in order to try and head off and take over the slave revolt from the Qun agents (or Solas').   I can actually envisage the writers doing something similar but regardless I'm having fun with it.    The outcome will probably not be the same as what the writers have planned because I want to win the elves a better life across Thedas, independent of Solas.  Still you can see how my lad is keeping himself busy, whilst still keeping in touch with his long distance lover.

I agree, the race selections does make a big difference. I can't see an elf having the story I cooked up for my human or a human having the story you've created for your elf.  It would have been nice if the game gave us something personal to do with our different races in mind. Like DA:O. I played a human noble and getting revenge on Howe was beyond satisfying, it added a different spin to encountering him again that the other races and classes don't have. Just like playing a human mage and encountering Jowan again had a different impact.  

[Qun00]

Does anyone else find it odd that Dorian looks older in Trespasser's epilogue?



I suppose there will be a relevant time gap between DAI and DA4.

[nightscrawl]

^ Eh, it's just an art style. He looks different in the Bull romance slide and also different in the crystal slide; three different Dorian appearances.