I have some horrors in some file I just remembered about.
Not that I would want to get that to Bioware as a gift...it was done before release and it's supposed to be my Dalish gifting trash to Dorian , so I suppose it's fitting even if it's useless.
It's not finished , because it was supposed to get better at some point but turns out no, desperate cause.
BEHOLD MY ART:
(send Bioware my regard , it's the thought that counts! 
)
^ I usually pick the "Don't leave it like this" line. I don't regard it as too pushy because it really seems to fit Dorian's reaction in the scene, and I also think that the tone comes across as supportive.
I think it all depends on how you play out the quest and the options you choose. If you choose to show him the letter, then it is Dorian's choice to go to the meeting. If you don't want to interject, once there you can attempt to excuse yourself, but Dorian asks you to stay (if you showed him the letter)**. Even though the option to leave them in private would normally be my go-to choice, I prefer to be defensive on Dorian's behalf so he can see that I care, and my Inquisitor is also angered at the deception.
To me, the first option -- "Don't leave it like this" -- comes across as more of a suggestion, whereas the other two appear less so. However, in such an emotional scene the person may not know what they want to do; they are upset and not thinking clearly, so asking them, "What do you want to do?" may not be entirely helpful.
I can see your point, though.
** If you did not show him the letter, he demands that you stay since you decided to interject yourself in the first place.
I guess I'm just never going to be comfortable with this quest as everyone around him is trying to manipulate him, except my character, and I just want to give him a big hug and tell him that I'll support whatever he decides.
This is one reason why, as part of my headcanon for the relationship, my Inquisitor never gives his view of Halward or anything of that sort, aside from offering general sympathy and support. He doesn't feel it's his place and worries that his own anger would unduly influence Dorian.
Dorian seemed to have healthy boundaries in place after what his father tried to do to him. His father disrespected those reasonable boundaries with his scheming to see him. Classic abuser move and I don't trust his apology. But, in the end it's Dorians choice that I have to respect. He knows his father.
It seems that I have a knack for romancing Dorian with inquisitors that are graying and not necessarily extremely pretty.
I guess it's just my way to rebel against all the Dorian x Beautiful Pretty Cute Lavellan (and Trevelyan but mostly Lavellan) stuff I see EVERYWHERE.
^ It's a shame we can't have salt and pepper hair, or gray at the temples, or something along those lines. Would be great for NPCs as well.
Head cannon accepted!
One thing I always keep in mind is, from various evidence both in game and out of game (there's a book I can't remember the name of which gives a lot info on Dorian's family) Dorian and his Father had a strong relationship and by all accounts they do love each other. They were at odds a bunch and fought a lot as Dorian got older but that was only made worse by the fact they did love each other. There's nothing to indicate Halward was abusive towards Dorian. So I tend to view his apology as being an honest one from someone who realizes they did something horrifically awful. From Dorian's reaction when Halward says he betrayed Dorian's trust I'd also wager hearing Halward admit to making a mistake is a pretty big deal. I mean clearly everything shouldn't be just forgiven at the drop of a hat (and it isn't) but I don't think classifying Halward as an abuser is accurate in this case. At least not how everything came across to me.
Actually most of the stuff you get about their relationship comes from Cole. It is annoying that if you don't have him with you, you never get to learn these things. What you do learn is that Dorian seemed desperate to please his father and make him proud when he was younger and this must have led to the tension plus guilt that Dorian felt in knowing that he could not do as Halward wanted.
The information from World of Thedas 2 does not really paint Dorian's family in a particularly good light. He was obviously under such pressure to do well that he became an obnoxious bully and show off at school after school (it makes me think a Malfoy in a way). Then in order to try and bring him to order, his family send him to an extremely strict school run to Andrastrian discipline (I've always been a bit bemused as to what strict Andrastrian discipline would amount to in Tevinter). Dorian ran away from there and ended up in a brothel, which is where Alexius found him. Alexius is the one who manages to get Dorian to open up and admit what is troubling him and then writes to Halward (in both a tactful yet critical way) saying that "I think a part of him sabotages all efforts to keep him on the straight and narrow, either to spite you or punish himself." From what he says about his relationship with his mother, it would seem she was equally putting him under pressure, plus gave him a poor role model for how to cope with a bad situation; drink you way out of it (he mentions she was drunk as usual when he visited her in Tevinter).
The reason relations seem to get better with his father after that is because basically Alexius is keeping the family a bay and their joint research is a good excuse for Dorian not to return home and marry the girl. Then when Alexius goes to pieces, so does Dorian's relationship with his family again. In some ways, Halward planning on resorting to blood magic helped Dorian break free in a way because he no longer felt obliged or guilty for not trying to please him. I always encourage him to talk to his father, for Dorian's sake. If something happened to his father and he hadn't at least given him a hearing, that would make him wracked with guilt all over again. Does anyone know how it affects Dorian if you don't broker a partial reconciliation when he hears of his father's death? Or does he always make contact when he returns to Tevinter, whether for a few months or longer?
Does anyone know how it affects Dorian if you don't broker a partial reconciliation when he hears of his father's death? Or does he always make contact when he returns to Tevinter, whether for a few months or longer?
I thought whether he made contact at all was rather ambiguous. He says he wasn't aware his father had kept him as heir, and that's pretty much it. He didn't say anything regarding whether he and Halward had a chat, whether he eventually forgave him, or not, and so on.
As far as I recall, anyway. I've only played through Trespasser the one time.
Searched through my screenshots 'til I found it. If you didn't persuade Dorian to reconcile with Halward, then after you ask what he did while he was away in Tevinter he says, "I'll tell you what I didn't do: see Father even once. Mother tracked me down once, which was... nice."
^ OH thanks for that.
Am I correct about the other though? That even if you did get them to talk that he doesn't really mention it one way or the other? The thing you posted is quite explicit, so I find the lack of the opposite rather curious. To be honest, I can't even recall if the Inquisitor is able to express sympathy about his father being dead, which my Inquisitor would have done. I seem to recall that there was some mention of the strained relationship, but I can't be sure if that is an accurate recollection, or not.
To a friendly Inqui who helped them "reconcile," Dorian will say that he "went home... twice. Mother was drunk both times." I don't remember if he specifically mentions his father, though presumably he was also there.
^ OH thanks for that.
Am I correct about the other though? That even if you did get them to talk that he doesn't really mention it one way or the other? The thing you posted is quite explicit, so I find the lack of the opposite rather curious. To be honest, I can't even recall if the Inquisitor is able to express sympathy about his father being dead, which my Inquisitor would have done. I seem to recall that there was some mention of the strained relationship, but I can't be sure if that is an accurate recollection, or not.
To a friendly Inqui who helped them "reconcile," Dorian will say that he "went home... twice. Mother was drunk both times." I don't remember if he specifically mentions his father, though presumably he was also there.
I have an annoying lack of screenshots from the second conversation with Dorian to confirm 
but I believe that, yes, he does mention meeting with his father at least once while there. Regarding Halward's death, Quizzy says something like, "I know it was complicated but I'm sorry about what happened."
One thing I always keep in mind is, from various evidence both in game and out of game (there's a book I can't remember the name of which gives a lot info on Dorian's family) Dorian and his Father had a strong relationship and by all accounts they do love each other. They were at odds a bunch and fought a lot as Dorian got older but that was only made worse by the fact they did love each other. There's nothing to indicate Halward was abusive towards Dorian. So I tend to view his apology as being an honest one from someone who realizes they did something horrifically awful. From Dorian's reaction when Halward says he betrayed Dorian's trust I'd also wager hearing Halward admit to making a mistake is a pretty big deal. I mean clearly everything shouldn't be just forgiven at the drop of a hat (and it isn't) but I don't think classifying Halward as an abuser is accurate in this case. At least not how everything came across to me.
^ OH thanks for that.
Am I correct about the other though? That even if you did get them to talk that he doesn't really mention it one way or the other? The thing you posted is quite explicit, so I find the lack of the opposite rather curious. To be honest, I can't even recall if the Inquisitor is able to express sympathy about his father being dead, which my Inquisitor would have done. I seem to recall that there was some mention of the strained relationship, but I can't be sure if that is an accurate recollection, or not.
If you encouraged them to speak, Dorian says, "I only saw him a handful of times while I was home. He never said anything about keeping me as his heir."
The lines above about seeing his (drunk) mother only seem to trigger if he went home for the 2 years rather than the month or two, but I got the 'handful of times' line from a Dorian who'd been gone a month. I think when he's been gone 2 years and was encouraged to speak to Halward, he says something along the lines of "I went home - twice. Father was only there once. Mother was drunk both times."
That's why it's so hard for me to stroll in and make these decisions for Dorian. The situation is too complicated and nuanced for anyone to get a good read in the 5 minutes that we know Dorian.
As I said, I tend to see the "Don't leave it like this" as more of a suggestion than anything else, based on the tone. Also, while it's certainly not ideal to bring meta information into perspective, you do have to keep in mind that these types of character quests in games are typically one-offs; you make your choices and it's never addressed again. Most of the time there isn't the likelihood that the person can get away to calm down and think things over and then address the issue at some later date.
In this particular case, I think they did a good job of showing that Dorian is NOT influenced by the Inquisitor. Back at Skyhold, the Inquisitor isn't allowed to offer their opinion on the matter, or tell Dorian that he should feel this or that way. Dorian's decision to even think about forgiveness is based on whether he decided to stay and talk with Halward, and that's all. Even when you do pick that option, Dorian asks Halward a question, gets an answer, and then turns about to leave anyway when he gets even more pissed off with Halward's response. It is only after that line that Dorian decides, on his own, to stay, after which the Inquisitor leaves the tavern to give them privacy.
To the man himself, I do take Halward's apology and request for forgiveness as genuine. Whether that means anything in the end is only up to Dorian to decide and I'll not give my opinion on the matter. However, I will say that for a prideful man, a man who thought he was doing right (however myopic that thought was), to admit his wrong and ask for forgiveness is a big step. That is the reason Dorian is stunned when Halward says this.
To be honest, I'm actually more pissed at Halward likening Dorian to himself with his "pride" remark that Dorian relates once back at Skyhold. I do not, for one single instant, believe that he would do to someone he loves what Halward did to him, and I heartily wish I could tell him this. Personal pride is one thing, and Dorian does have this (to a degree), but blatant disregard of another's feelings and well being is another matter entirely.
Do you feel it is a pity that you have to buy a source book to get the full picture about Dorian? I mean it is obvious from the biography in WoT2 that the problems with his family started back in his childhood, so had been going on and off for around twenty years before the final straw with the blood magic. It is also clear that Dorian wouldn't be the person he is today but for Alexius.
You don't get the sense of that in game. He mentions how he was Alexius' apprentice and how his successes pleased Alexius, as though it was a fairly normal arrangement and he didn't owe him anything in particular. In fact the history Dorian gives of himself is more like what is contained in the biography of Alexius. In that it merely says that Dorian attempted to keep up his research with his mentor but found Gereon increasingly distant and strange, which is pretty much what Dorian says in game. There is no mention that in fact Alexius was keeping them focussed on research of time magic and finding a cure for Felix, plus in fact they found a way to delay the onset of symptoms from the taint by 5-6 years. There is also no sense of that two year gap in his CV after storming out of the family home. In game it sounds like his journey south followed almost straight on from it. In game it also sounds like Felix had only been hurt a short time before, as had the falling out with Alexius.
I know it must have shocked him when Alexius joined the Venatori and lowered his opinion of him, but in his biography he admits in a letter to a friend that it seems totally out of character and must have something to do with Felix, so it is a shame that, once he gets to know you, he doesn't acknowledge what Alexius did for him. All his praise seems to be heaped on Felix and I feel you never really get the sense of just how far Alexius has fallen.
I find the information in both their biographies is very revealing both of his relationship with his parents and his relationship with his surrogate father but if I hadn't bought WoT2 I would never have known this. The only thing you get in game that you don't find in the book is the knowledge of what caused the final breach between him and his father. What you do get from the book is the fact that when his remark about his family potentially kidnapping him was not a joke but a very real possibility based on previous experience. Obviously Dorian might not want to share all his past experiences with you but the source book is written as though by someone in the know in Tevinter, so it is the sort of information that Leliana would ensure she got hold of.
^ Yes, and no. It is important to me because I like the character, and also because I write fanfic. I won't deny that those WoT passages had an impact on my writing of the character. However, I don't think that it is necessary to have that full of an understanding based on the game. Dorian is a good guy with some personal issues, and most of those come out in the game, particularly with the Cole banter. There is some healing, whether friend or romance, and you get to see that Dorian is a caring individual that values friendship. ALL of that is present in the game.
The same can be said for any of the characters and their WoT information, or even their appearance in previous games (Morrigan, Cullen, Leliana, Varric). There is only so much information they can put in the game, and it's not like Dorian is the only one with more revealing information in WoT.
Honestly, I think WoT is more important for the information regarding Alexius and Felix. You do see some of that in the game, but I think there is more of a desperation that comes through in WoT that shows why he allowed himself to be lulled by Corypheus's false promises.
Finally, while I do take most of the information present in WoT as the "truth," even though it is written as a third-hand account, there are issues with the timeline and so on that don't jive with the presentation in the game that are irksome; you've elaborated on these yourself in previous posts. I do NOT take it as Dorian being discrete, or cautious with his interlocutor, but rather as an inconsistency, as there are many between both volumes of World of Thedas and the games. In my mind, I've had to sort of mash both together to come up with a presentation that makes sense to me.
^ At this point, it's just so absurd and over the top that I can't help but like it. And more pissy Fenris doing the weather!
That is hilarious; it has really brightened my day. Can't wait for Dorian Time Chapter 3. So much more enjoyable than the comic series. As you say, if you are going to go OTT, then go really OTT.
At the moment, I'm not sure if this happens for all of the dialogue options, or only for "Let's be foolish." As I've posted before, the final post-sex scene is fully animated, showing Dorian and the Inquisitor lying back on the bed. BUT, what I didn't know is that the Inquisitor takes Dorian's hand right before. I haven't tested it myself yet, but damn this is just too sweet.
I really wish they had shown the hand thing in the final game cut.
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