22167 réponses à ce sujet

[Witch Cocktor]

what do ya'll think of Dorian potentially dying in DA4?

sorta feels like it's definitely going to happen

universally liked character, iron bull and inquisitor romanceable... just, so easy to just sacrifice him for THE FEELS

[nightscrawl]

^ They haven't killed off any followers in that manner. As far as I can recall, any follower deaths have been based on player choice.

 

I don't know how much the Iron Bull romance will factor into anything. Since he has the possibility of being dead, or simply not recruited, that severely limits what they can do with his character in any future game. And remember, the ONLY way to get Iron Bull to become Tal'Vashoth is by completing his personal quest and sacrificing the Chargers. If you never recruited him at all, he is still loyal to the Qun, although presumably still alive somewhere.

 

To be honest, I think things like that are all up in the air as far as predictability goes. What has been standard in the past might change, especially since we have a new head writer.

 

I can see several different paths in DA4 as far as Dorian is concerned.

1 He is a follower in the new game.

2 He is an advisor in the new game (I think this is more likely).

3 There might be some contrivance that allows him to become the Archon (do note I said "contrivance").

4 If he becomes the new Archon, he may break up with the Inquisitor, or not, depending on dialogue chosen (see: Alistair), or regardless of dialogue chosen.

5 He might have some sort of heroic or sacrificial death that shows exactly how much he's willing to give up for his country.

6 Depending on how the next game ends, he may ride off into the sunset with his partner, whoever that is.

 

Anything can happen. I don't find any one final scenario more likely than another other than the fact that he will probably be in the next game.

 

In any case, it's not something I prefer to think about, especially as we likely have around two years before we get to play the next game.

[Witch Cocktor]

Well, I just mean that there is more grief since even if you didn't romance Dorian, he could still be in a relationship with someone. As said, just adds to the grief and FEELS. That's why he is such a juicy person to kill off.

 

Regarding the 5th option, if this happens, especially if he is in a relationship with the Inquisitor, none of you shall come for me and tell me I'm wrong when I say '' Dorian cares more about Tevinter than his LI.. '' though of course I'm sure anyone could come up with million reasons why this is not the case but.. damn, I HOPE that does not happen. If Dorian has to die, IT BETTER NOT BE FOR TEVINTER.

 

I'm personally hoping that DA4 will have at least ONE no-bullshit, straight to the point HAPPY ENDING for a male x male couple. Whether it's Dorian or a new LI.

[Sifr]

^ They haven't killed off any followers in that manner. As far as I can recall, any follower deaths have been based on player choice.

 

Save for Wynne, who's canonically dead either because she died during Origins or died to save Evangeline during Asunder. Even though the novels take place in the default canon, Cole still alludes to those events happening in Inquisition.

 

(Although I'm curious, does he still mention her death if you import a dead!Wynne save from Origins? I never kill Wynne, so I'm not sure?)

[nightscrawl]

Regarding the 5th option, if this happens, especially if he is in a relationship with the Inquisitor, none of you shall come for me and tell me I'm wrong when I say '' Dorian cares more about Tevinter than his LI.. '' though of course I'm sure anyone could come up with million reasons why this is not the case but.. damn, I HOPE that does not happen. If Dorian has to die, IT BETTER NOT BE FOR TEVINTER.
 
I'm personally hoping that DA4 will have at least ONE no-bullshit, straight to the point HAPPY ENDING for a male x male couple. Whether it's Dorian or a new LI.

 
For me, it all depends on how it's handled. I wouldn't be happy about it, but neither would I agree with you. The same applies to dying for Tevinter. I think that would be a "great" death for Dorian, even though I don't want it to happen.
 
But we just have a fundamental disagreement with it comes to Dorian, Tevinter, the relationship, and how all of those mesh together. There really is no discussion to be had; we simply have differing views on it.

 

To your last point, I do completely agree there. For Dorian specifically, I'd say he's earned his happiness.
 
 

Save for Wynne, who's canonically dead either because she died during Origins or died to save Evangeline during Asunder. Even though the novels take place in the default canon, Cole still alludes to those events happening in Inquisition.
 
(although I'm curious, does he still say it if you import a save with her already dead from Origins? I never kill Wynne, so I've not checked this)

 
I forgot about this, thanks. Although, one could argue that the novel is outside of player influence, so doesn't actually count in that sense.

 

Also, her death in DAO can be hand-waived by saying that the spirit saved her once again. And no, I don't put ANY significance whatsoever in combat finishers like decapitation.

[Witch Cocktor]

 
For me, it all depends on how it's handled. I wouldn't be happy about it, but neither would I agree with you. The sample applies to dying for Tevinter. I think that would be a "great" death for Dorian, even though I don't want it to happen.
 
But we just have a fundamental disagreement with it comes to Dorian, Tevinter, the relationship, and how all of those mesh together. There really is no discussion to be had; we simply have differing views on it.

 

To your last point, I do completely agree there. For Dorian specifically, I'd say he's earned his happiness.

 

Even my most accepting Dorian-romancing Inquisitor would loathe Dorian if he had the nerves to voluntarily sacrifice himself for Tevinter. It's one thing to make false promises of '' we'll have to do long distance, just a little while, juuust a little while, while I'll go on an abstract mission of redeeming a concept that is a country ye, BUT THEN WE'LL BE TOGETHER AFTER IM DONE!!!! '' but it's another to more-or-less voluntarily dying for the shithole that kept us apart.

 

I'd personally prefer if a Dorian-romancing Inquisitor sacrificed himself for Dorian, partly caused by his '' redeem Tevinter '' mission. I think that'd be fitting. Hurts, doesn't it? Should've just embraced the person you loved while you could, now it's alllllllllll over, and it's your fault, just a bit.

 

But yes, different opinions. I won't see Dorian's romance in a positive light until DA4 fixes my issues with it.

[Arlee]

 
For me, it all depends on how it's handled. I wouldn't be happy about it, but neither would I agree with you. The same applies to dying for Tevinter. I think that would be a "great" death for Dorian, even though I don't want it to happen.
 
But we just have a fundamental disagreement with it comes to Dorian, Tevinter, the relationship, and how all of those mesh together. There really is no discussion to be had; we simply have differing views on it.

 

To your last point, I do completely agree there. For Dorian specifically, I'd say he's earned his happiness.

 

I pretty much agree with all of this. I mean if they made a good death for him which made sense I'd be REALLY sad, but I'd be ok with it. I'd much prefer him to get a happily ever after ending though.

 

On a sort of related note, I ran into Mike Laidlaw at PAX East and totally fangirled out to him about how awesome DAI was and how much I really enjoyed it and everything about it. He was quite nice about it all too considering I stopped him when he was clearly on his way somewhere. I just really wanted to tell him how much I enjoyed all of it and that I've been playing the game for two years without ever touching the multiplayer part. It was pretty cool

[Mistic]

I can see several different paths in DA4 as far as Dorian is concerned.

1 He is a follower in the new game.

2 He is an advisor in the new game (I think this is more likely).

3 There might be some contrivance that allows him to become the Archon (do note I said "contrivance").

4 If he becomes the new Archon, he may break up with the Inquisitor, or not, depending on dialogue chosen (see: Alistair), or regardless of dialogue chosen.

5 He might have some sort of heroic or sacrificial death that shows exactly how much he's willing to give up for his country.

6 Depending on how the next game ends, he may ride off into the sunset with his partner, whoever that is.

 

Don't forget "7. Dorian becomes the Black Divine". Easier than Archon, at the very least. In which case time will tell if he pulls a Cassandra or a Leliana.

[nightscrawl]

I left that off because I found that to be more unlikely given that Dorian is not a member of the Tevinter Chantry.

 

For Archon, the only obstacle is that he is a current magister, so they very well might work it out that Radonis just appoints him anyway.

[nightscrawl]

I'd much prefer him to get a happily ever after ending though.

 
Of course, that also means a happy ending for my Inquisitor, so...

[Mistic]

I left that off because I found that to be more unlikely given that Dorian is not a member of the Tevinter Chantry.

 

For Archon, the only obstacle is that he is a current magister, so they very well might work it out that Radonis just appoints him anyway.

 

True enough, WoT mentions that Divines in Tevinter are "traditionally elected from the ranks of grand clerics", as with the Orlesian Chantry. However, the same tradition didn't stop Vivienne in the South, and she had the added problem that she was a mage, while Dorian has the benefit of being an Altus. On the other hand, there's a clearly stated prohibition against Magister Archons (as well as Archons coming from the Imperial Chantry).

 

And talking about Archons, there's another rule about them and Imperial Divines. WoT says that in the event of a tie in the Divine election, "the Archon casts the deciding vote". It's suspiciously similar to a Bioware kingmaker (or in this case, divinemaker) scenario.

[nightscrawl]

^ Ugh... I'm trying not to think about it, and not even related to Dorian. As I said in the Tevinter thread, I don't want to pick the ruler of another nation.

[Mistic]

^ Ugh... I'm trying not to think about it, and not even related to Dorian. As I said in the Tevinter thread, I don't want to pick the ruler of another nation.

 

Wait, does that mean that in your idea of Dorian becoming the Archon, he would get the post no matter what, without player input?

 

In any case, technically I'm not proposing to choose the leader of yet another nation. We become the national leader and then we pick a religious leader (it would be our first time doing that; we never chose the Divine directly in DA:I). It's not exactly the same

[nightscrawl]

^ I admit I hadn't really considered that when I wrote those options. It was pure speculation regarding Dorian's possible paths, regardless of whether we have PC input. I don't want any of those things haha... I don't want Dorian to become any sort of leader, nor do I want my PC to become one OR be able to choose one.

[Mistic]

^ I admit I hadn't really considered that when I wrote those options. It was pure speculation regarding Dorian's possible paths, regardless of whether we have PC input. I don't want any of those things haha... I don't want Dorian to become any sort of leader, nor do I want my PC to become one OR be able to choose one.

 

I understand your point. Truly, it would be nice for a change to have a protagonist that isn't another world-changing snowflake, although Bioware's previous attempt (DA2) didn't work very well. But hey, people can learn and improve for the next chance.

 

However, I don't think a game set in Tevinter would be the best for that experiment.

 

Why? If the scenario suggested in the epilogue is happening, it won't be enough to be a simple agent. A secret war against Solas may allow for it, but there's also the Qunari invasion (with some luck, we'll finally see what a Qunari war looks like) and the problematic issue of reforming Tevinter, which can't be possible unless the ruling body changes. A scenario like that asks for a Heraclius or a Leo the Isaurian, not a common grunt. The only way to avoid that would be for the Qunari to win and conquer Tevinter. Which, although narratively interesting, will probably be accepted as warmly as DA2's "failure is the only option" and ME3's three colours.

 

Nevertheless, I could see it happening, but it would work better in another setting. Like Antiva. That country and its royals seem pretty stable, while the real fun is in the dealings of the merchant princes, pirates, assassins and general underground criminals. There I'd like to be Ezio, not Aragorn.

 

As for Dorian, he's already becoming a political leader by his own choice. I won't deny him the opportunity if so he wishes.

[Reznore57]

I sort of don't want Dorian as the Archon or Black Divine , not because I want him to be all for my Inquisitor...just I'm slowly but surely turning Thedas into bunnies and butterflies land where every major leader is who I want.

Ferelden got Alistair , the Chantry has Cass , Orlais get Celene and Briala busy being in Luv , one of the major city of Kirkwall got Varric...

Pacifying Tevinter on top of it ...Besides Dorian would be pretty good dealing with foreign powers I imagine , with him being charming and all that..

[nightscrawl]

As for Dorian, he's already becoming a political leader by his own choice. I won't deny him the opportunity if so he wishes.

I see it as something that he feels he has to do, not something that he enjoys. There certainly are people who enjoy playing the Game, like Vivienne, but Dorian is not one of those; he has disdain for the whole process, he says so on a couple of occasions. I think the difference is important.

I'm not going to be so naive as to say that everyone should be happy or anything like that; that's not realistic. But it would be nice... However, that doesn't seem to be Bioware's MO.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, quite a few of the romances can be seen to have, more or less, happy endings. Both Leliana (even if made Divine) and Morrigan are together with their Warden. We don't know what all of Hawke's LIs are doing, but Hawke is in a stable position in Kirkwall**. Even though the Inquisitor is stated to be working against Solas in some form, Cullen and Sera both get married, so you can expect some relative happiness there.

 

So we really don't know what's going to happen with the happiness factor as far as Dorian is concerned, particularly involving the romance. They could go either way.

 

To be honest, all I want is for whatever they do to make sense within the story and for the character.

 

 

** I think Anders is probably the only one who might not be in a good place, not only because of his personal issues, but because he is basically a fugitive.

[Mistic]

I sort of don't want Dorian as the Archon or Black Divine , not because I want him to be all for my Inquisitor...just I'm slowly but surely turning Thedas into bunnies and butterflies land where every major leader is who I want.

 

I don't think choosing the leaders turns Thedas into such a fantastic land. The best example would be Trespasser itself: we put Ferelden's and Orlais' current rulers on the throne, and influenced who the next Divine was going to be. That didn't stop the powers that be from either forcing the Inquisition to disband or reducing its numbers a lot.

 

Another example: Tevinter with safe frontiers with the Qunari, no ancient elven conspiracy to undermine it and an energetic snowflake Archon sounds pretty cool... for the Imperium. For its neighbours? Not so much.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, quite a few of the romances can be seen to have, more or less, happy endings. Both Leliana (even if made Divine) and Morrigan are together with their Warden. We don't know what all of Hawke's LIs are doing, but Hawke is in a stable position in Kirkwall**. Even though the Inquisitor is stated to be working against Solas in some form, Cullen and Sera both get married, so you can expect some relative happiness there.

 

So we really don't know what's going to happen with the happiness factor as far as Dorian is concerned, particularly involving the romance. They could go either way.

 

True enough. It's not as if every romance ends in tragedy or bad luck. Also, even if he got a position, I'm not sure I see Dorian taking Cassandra's route ("Duty before anything else"). But he may change in all these years, so I wouldn't bet my life on it.

[nightscrawl]

Another example: Tevinter with safe frontiers with the Qunari, no ancient elven conspiracy to undermine it and an energetic snowflake Archon sounds pretty cool... for the Imperium. For its neighbours? Not so much.

This sounds like you think Dorian would return to expansionism if he were to become Archon. I really don't see that happening. There is too much to fix right at home to be worrying about expanding. Hell, even the Alexius codex entry talks about how its Circles are literally falling apart for want of maintenance.

[Mistic]

This sounds like you think Dorian would return to expansionism if he were to become Archon. I really don't see that happening. There is too much to fix right at home to be worrying about expanding. Hell, even the Alexius codex entry talks about how its Circles are literally falling apart for want of maintenance.

 

No, it wasn't that: Dorian (or whoever becomes the Archon) could be the most peaceful ruler in Tevinter and focus on everyday problems in the country, yet it wouldn't stop others from fearing the renewed Imperium.

 

It's nothing new. The Fereldan Civil War was caused basically by Loghain's paranoia regarding Orlais, despite Celene's offers of help during the Blight being sincere. The Inquisition itself does nothing but help Orlais and Ferelden, yet it's treated as a security threat by both countries. Even in a far smaller scale, Meredith is paranoid about the most Templar-friendly Hawke's influence, because their power could challenge hers if a conflict happened.

 

Now imagine what would happen if the news of a decisive Tevinter-alone victory against the Qunari and the coronation of a popular and heroic Archon capable of stopping the Imperium's decadence reached the South. DA:I already mentions frontier tensions with Nevarra, which is close to a succession crisis. The Anders are literally "bitter neighbours" of the Imperium and could fear their former overlords trying to recover some territory in the Anderfels. Rivain and Antiva are close, and even Celene was worried about Tevinter in the Masked Empire. Even if the Imperium did nothing, when the next game moved to another setting it could cause a chain reaction with unforeseeable consequences. And that's the beauty of it.

[Reznore57]

I don't think choosing the leaders turns Thedas into such a fantastic land. The best example would be Trespasser itself: we put Ferelden's and Orlais' current rulers on the throne, and influenced who the next Divine was going to be. That didn't stop the powers that be from either forcing the Inquisition to disband or reducing its numbers a lot.

 

 

Well I agreed with Teagan there  .

The Inquisition as an army doing whatever it feels like ,annexing lands , etc...needed to be disbanded ASAP.

Which you can tell to Mother Giselle right at the beginning of the DLC , but then for drama sake everyone goes "oh noes ,they're going to disband the Inquisition!!!!"

 

So it really wasn't a problem.I've got Orlais and Ferelden with somewhat peaceful leaders , who tends to be pro elves , and not anti mages.They are also pro diplomacy ,as long as they don't kick the bucket , there should be peace between Ferelden and Orlais.

And Cass as Divine , who I assume , won't be good at diplomacy , but will be effective at calling an Exalted March and leading the charge if the Qunari gets ideas.

Even the one tension I had in the DAI epilogue with Fiona causing issues got resolved by....Vivienne .Who just swooped in and scared everyone into submission.With Cass holding the leash.

So take Solas away , and it all ended rainbows , bunnies and fluffy feelings for me.

[Gervaise]

Whether or not Dorian ends up in a position of power largely depends if they want to change Tevinter from being the threat in the north that everyone is always worried about, when they are not worrying about Qunari.   As I understand it, the reason Solas engineered the Qunari leaving the south alone was because he wanted them to have a few years peace to ease his conscience.   So he aimed them back against Tevinter, so the south would fall back into its normal complacency, trying to pretend that the threats out there do not exist.     This means that even if Tevinter succeeded in overcoming the Qun and Dorian was made Archon, it would be a very short lived reign since Solas is planning on pulling the plug on everyone.

 

Personally I feel that although the epilogue says his focus is on fighting corruption in Tevinter, I think it is far more likely he will be actively working as "our agent in the north" trying to scupper Solas since there is little point in saving Tevinter if we don't stop Solas.     He will be the link between DAI and DA4.

 

I also feel that Dorian deserves a break when it comes to happiness, so I hope he does get his happy ever after with the Inquisitor.   It always seemed a bit contrived really to have you continue to be apart if you disbanded the Inquisition since you had no reason to continue to be in the south and you can track Solas just as easily from up north (particularly as that is likely to be where he is active - I reckon what he needs is in Tevinter).   If Dorian has to die, then I hope we can go together, fighting to save not only Tevinter but the whole world from the Dread Wolf, but on the whole I'd rather neither of us has to make the ultimate sacrifice but our faithful gay couple is allowed to grow old together.

[nightscrawl]

It always seemed a bit contrived really to have you continue to be apart if you disbanded the Inquisition since you had no reason to continue to be in the south and you can track Solas just as easily from up north (particularly as that is likely to be where he is active - I reckon what he needs is in Tevinter).

Even before the whole Solas thing I never felt it was that contrived, to be honest. I understood Dorian's reasoning that he states during the post-Mythal conversation. Also, I don't really feel that my Inquisitor, even though he is a human of noble birth (a better position than some of the other LI options) has a place in Tevinter.

 

It's just one of those different roleplay reactions to the context of the situation.

[Joe25]

So how do you think Dorian's style will change between DAI and DA4?

[nightscrawl]

His... hairstyle? His overall fashion sense? Not sure what you're referring to.

 

In terms of general appearance, I'd imagine that they will keep him looking pretty much the same; they've tried to do that with every NPC carryover from previous games, even if some don't turn out well due to the change in game engines or whatever. For Dorian specifically, I think that trend is a bit unfortunate, as I think he might change his hair or facial hair as time goes on.

 

I'm sure someone will point out that he has long hair in one of the epilogue slides, but not all of them -- the general Tevinter one with Maevaris looks long, but pulled back, the romance/friend one has it long and loose, the Bull romance one is the current short style. He also looks different ages in all three slides, so I don't think those are anything to go on, really.