22167 réponses à ce sujet

[Joe25]

His... hairstyle? His overall fashion sense? Not sure what you're referring to.

 

In terms of general appearance, I'd imagine that they will keep him looking pretty much the same; they've tried to do that with every NPC carryover from previous games, even if some don't turn out well due to the change in game engines or whatever. For Dorian specifically, I think that trend is a bit unfortunate, as I think he might change his hair or facial hair as time goes on.

 

I'm sure someone will point out that he has long hair in one of the epilogue slides, but not all of them -- the general Tevinter one with Maevaris looks long, but pulled back, the romance/friend one has it long and loose, the Bull romance one is the current short style. He also looks different ages in all three slides, so I don't think those are anything to go on, really.

Yeah, I think they would keep his face the same. I think the only thing that would change is his clothes. I feel like Dorian would take a page out of Vivienne's book by trying to stay two seasons ahead in fashion. 

[Gervaise]

The thing is there was a difference between his reasoning post Temple of Mythal, then pre-Exalted Council and then finally after you make your decision.    Post Mythal you are still a very important personage and he probably felt you wouldn't be welcome in Tevinter (treading on too many toes) and he wanted to be able to try and deal with things himself.   Then pre-Exalted Council you are still the Inquisitor with duties and status and he wants to return to avenge his father's death plus try and make a difference in his homeland.   So again, I could understand him feeling that it wasn't going to be possible initially to be together because you had your own responsibilities you needed to deal with.   

 

However, once I had disbanded the Inquisition, it was an entirely different situation.   I was now a private citizen, although thanks to Varric I did have a title that would give me a degree of respect wherever I chose to go.   In my case I had sided with Tevinter against Nevarra and we know that privately the Archon wanted the Venatori out of the way, plus I'd dealt with the threat of the Qunari in the south.   It wouldn't have helped Tevinter any if the south had been conquered by the Oxmen.  So I wasn't really a threat to the state any more without my organisation but I had helped Tevinter (certainly not been hostile towards them).    So to my mind, quietly accompanying Dorian back north would not seem out of the question.     As it is they do say in the epilogue that the Inquisitor has been rumoured to have been seen on the streets of Minrathous having sneaked up there to aid his Amatus.    I just saw it as you accompanying him in a less secret, more open way, in keeping with Dorian's own professed outlook on life which objected to having to keep everything behind closed doors and hushed up.    So far as I am concerned, if my lad takes the trouble to sneak into Minrathous, he's not about to leave again in a hurry.     When I was considering the whole thing, it seemed to me that once the Qun openly attack Tevinter, wild horses couldn't keep him away.    What good is a crystal if your lover is fighting for his life and you are hundreds of miles away?   Which is why I feel if they were to try and kill off either Dorian or the ex-Inquisitor, they would probably go down together, at least in my world they would.

[Arlee]

Idk... even if you disband the Inquisition I think most people in Tevinter would still regard you as the Inquisitor and a representative of the Southern Chantry; which would not only make things more difficult for Dorian but it also would definitely make things much more dangerous for the both of you.

[Qun00]

I was wondering... if homophobia doesn't exist in Thedas, how do you explain Oghren?

[Catilina]

I was wondering... if homophobia doesn't exist in Thedas, how do you explain Oghren?

(And Gamlen's stupid joke...)

 

It does not exist, but there are those who do not know it.

[nightscrawl]

Use of the word "homophobia" is probably misplaced in this instance. Just because someone makes an a-hole anti-gay remark doesn't necessarily mean that they are homophobic (as in "afraid" of the homosexuals), but they can be bigots, or simply just a-holes. Homosexuality is not a concern for the majority.

 

This is like asking about sexism when men and woman are equal in status throughout much of Thedas, but there are still lewd remarks made toward women, depictions and suggestions of rape, and so on.

 

That sort of behavior will always exist. Thedas, while greatly more tolerant and accepting than the real world, is not a Utopia; there are still a-holes there.

 

 

I suppose I can see how some of Oghren's remarks to Zevran can be "problematic," but he's not actually going out gay bashing or anything. I think there is a difference. Also, it seems like most of his remarks are based around the view that elves = fem, which would apply even if Zevran were straight. And of course straight men can be fem as well; that's not just the purview of gay men. I'm sure even Thedas has their masculine and feminine ideal.

[Witch Cocktor]

What in our world is homophobic is being a dickwad in Thedas. And why what is being a dickwad in Thedas is called homophobia in our world, is because of the long history of oppression and persecution of gay (LGBT) people. Until we learn more about the history of gay people in Thedas, we can't say much about the existence of homophobia.

 

Ignorance is alive and well, though. Ignorance doesn't necessarily translate into a -phobia or an -ism.

 

And since the Dragon Age world is developing and the lore is touched upon more in future games, past behavior has to be judged by a more critical lens and the recent lore and games have to be taken into consideration: were the '' homophobic '' comments someone said there for a shallow marketing purpose (by that I mean were such comments added to ease the minds of those who aren't completely comfortable with LGBT content in games), or were they actually an integral part of a character and their view of the surrounding culture. And since the world, the lore and the story is developing, were those previous homophobic comments a reflection of what the writers actually wanted to write, or should they be discarded as untrue reflections of how Thedas is being written now (though this would be a copout).

[Gervaise]

So sneaking into Tevinter in clandestine fashion so you appear like a spy is preferable to visiting as say, the Ambassador to Kirkwall (courtesy of Varric) there to foster good relations between one of the most important trading ports in the South (a likely route for the import of Lyrium) and the Tevinter Imperium?    While there you get to meet the Archon in private and assure him you will continue to pursue the Venatori wherever found (a matter you know is dear to his heart) and even the Black Divine, to make it clear you never wanted to be Herald of Andraste, you can't stick the southern Chantry or Orlais and you also loath the Qun.   As they will know, Kirkwall had its own share of trouble from the Qun in the past and in more recent times, so you've come to lend your expertise to ensure they don't get a foothold on the mainland again. 

 

Why would this cause a problem for Dorian?    The Magisterium aren't stupid, neither is the Archon or the Black Divine.   In fact to offer a friendly welcome to the person who refused to work as the private army of the White Divine would I imagine amuse them greatly.    Of course you might end up eventually treading on a few important toes but then Dorian was intending doing that anyway.   This way he's got you watching his back and vice versa.

 

There is also the matter of some mad elf who wants to destroy the world but you probably would keep that back for later if the Tevinter start thinking they can do without you around the place.  

[Mistic]

I was wondering... if homophobia doesn't exist in Thedas, how do you explain Oghren?

 

Who says it doesn't exist?

 

What we know from Genitivi's The sex lives of everyday Thedosians is that "nowhere is it forbidden" to have sex with a member of the same gender. Not being illegal is not the same as it being accepted by everyone (as many people in the real-world could tell), and each society has its own rules.

 

We know that in Orlais they don't care, but in Ferelden it's expected that the couple will be discreet about it, otherwise it will be a matter of scandal. Hardly the paragons of publicly accepted homosexuality. And in Tevinter it's a matter of class: between nobles is a no-no, but it's ok between a noble and a slave. Not unlike in real Rome, after all (although there not only class, but also an active-passive axis was taken into account).

[nightscrawl]

Why would this cause a problem for Dorian?

It all depends on Dorian's general behavior as a magister, his outlook on the position, and how much the Tevnter standard of appearance plays into any of that and the role it may have in him accomplishing his goals.

We know Dorian doesn't want to hide who he is, or loves, but he may think that playing along with expectations will enable him to do a better job. But again, it depends on how he is going to be going about doing that job. If he's of the mind that anyone who would be concerned about such things is a throwback whose alliance is not worth cultivating, then there isn't a problem. But if he is looking ahead and thinking, rightly so, that the way to do it is to bring the old guard to your side, make them see that change is needed, that will be more easily done if he's not viewed as too much of an upstart.

 

He considered himself a pariah before, for his sexuality and his views regarding that and the rest of Tevinter society. But he is not the same person he was five years ago, when the only thing he had to worry about was himself and his own personal torments. He's helped saved the world and he wants to save his country, issues much larger than his own desires.

 

But this is all conjecture. We don't know exactly how the Inquisitor (the person -- for our purposes in this thread, the man) is viewed by the rest of the altus class, or the Magisterium at large. We don't know how many people are aware of the romantic relationship between Dorian and the Inquisitor (aside from the one banter with Vivienne), what they think of that, and if it's just assumed that it is quid pro quo pleasure and power based and nothing of true significance (why would they think otherwise?) You have to remember, having such a romantic attachment would be seen as a weakness and something to exploit, regardless of who it's with.

 

Also, just because the Inquisition has formally disbanded (for some players), doesn't mean that there won't be those, including possibly the Archon, who may see the Inquisitor's presence as a threat; they weren't fans of the Inquisition to begin with.

[Qun00]

This is like asking about sexism when men and woman are equal in status throughout much of Thedas, but there are still lewd remarks made toward women, depictions and suggestions of rape, and so on.

How does this work, exactly? Was Isabela being sexist when she made lewd remarks toward Fenris?

Or is it an one way street 'cause straight male sexuality is dirty and shameful?

[nightscrawl]

^ I was referring primarily to degrading remarks made by men in such places like the castless dwarf origin and the city elf origin in DAO.

 

That's all I'll say about the subject. This is not the thread to discuss sexism in Thedas or the Dragon Age franchise.

[Gervaise]

Just thought I'd mention there is a post over on General Discussion (spoilers) about a video which has Dorian speaking the words "I love you" and the Inquisitor replying "I love you too."    I actually don't think it is Dorian's voice that is used but the poster was asking if anyone else had got this.   I certainly haven't.    It is not related to Trespasser in any way.   It's my opinion that it is not a genuine exchange from the game.   Seeing as it is voiced over a bit from the main game, it can't be.  Still if anyone knows the origins of this exchange, please share.   

[Arlee]

Hmmm... The closest I have heard Dorian come to saying "I love you" is "Your the man I love"... so I don't think that could possibly be a legit exchange :/ Unless I've totally gone batty and somehow forgotten him saying that, which if that's the case I'm going to have to question everything

[nightscrawl]

Just thought I'd mention there is a post over on General Discussion (spoilers) about a video which has Dorian speaking the words "I love you" and the Inquisitor replying "I love you too."    I actually don't think it is Dorian's voice that is used but the poster was asking if anyone else had got this.   I certainly haven't.    It is not related to Trespasser in any way.   It's my opinion that it is not a genuine exchange from the game.   Seeing as it is voiced over a bit from the main game, it can't be.  Still if anyone knows the origins of this exchange, please share.

 
Well it technically IS Dorian's voice, since it (to me) is very clearly Ramon Tikaram, but not Dorian the character's voice.
 
I'll just copy the response I made in that thread...
 

While the Inquisitor does get to say "I love you" to Dorian as part of the final Trespasser crossroads dialogue, I don't believe Dorian ever responds with an "I love you, too," nor is there a clear "I love you" from him anywhere in the actual in-game dialogue. As Gervaise says, the closest we get is, "You are the man I love," during the scene where you discuss his returning to Tevinter.

There are a few things that work in favor of an audio splicer in this instance. Ramon Tikaram's (Dorian's VA) natural voice is what he used for Dorian. He has also done several audio books, in addition to films. There could certainly be audio out there from some other media of him saying, "I love you, too" that the person used.

There are also a lot of Dorian fans out there, including those that are pretty familiar with the mod tools and audio extraction. If that clip was in the game, I'd think we might have heard it before now.

That said... I suppose there always is the possibility that it IS in the depths of the game files somewhere. There are a ton of audio files and it would be tedious to go through them ALL to find one single nugget like this. However, I'm pretty sure it is not present as a response in the actual game.

While the person could also have just spliced together every single word, that is, separate instances of "I," "love (or "I love," since that is available), "you," and "too," it seems like a naturally flowing sentence, so I'm more inclined to go with my previous theory.

[Sifr]

Just be thankful we've not had someone audio-splicing Ramon Tikaram to have Dorian talking about;

 

Spoiler

 

Having an extremely massive behind.

 

Although... to be fair, it does seem like something Dorian would brag about?

[Carjani]

Hello there.

Since this is the Dorian thread I hope you can help me.

 

I'm currently playing through the game again and of course I'm about to romance Dorian. ^^

I'm doing the "magisterst birthright" quest.

 

I know that there are different ways to get the amulet back for him.

Doing the favour for Ponchard thorugh wartable and Intimidate Ponchard.

I know intimidate works only with a qunari and a noble trevelyan, but it should working for all classes/races with the nobility knowledge perk but this symbol won't show up, no matter what I do.

It's strange because I remember beeing able to choose it in past playthroughs.

 

I definitely have the nobility knowkledge perk selected at the war table and  tried nearly all possibilties. Asking and not asking Dorian about the amulet while bringing him with me to Val Royeaux or leaving him at Skyhold, but the bloody icon won't show up.

I like that he responds a little differently when you just had to "glare" at the ponchard to get the amulet and I try to record all the different scences.

 

Oh and I'm playing a male mage trevelyan and did'nt do HLTA or WEAWH yet.

Any ideas how I get the icon to show up? Or has anybody experieced the same (bug)?

[nightscrawl]

^ Have you done it with a mage before? Perhaps that is the difference.

 

Maybe if you have multiple options, the game gives one a higher priority over another. I play a Trev warrior. I also do take the nobility knowledge perk (for RP reasons). The only alternative option I get, even with the perk, is the special Trevelyan noble option, "Do you know who I am?"

 

What is his different response if you "glare"? The only other response I've seen is his displeased one if you actually kill Ponchard. I think there is also an Inquisitor one that plays out in a similar way to the noble Trev.

[Carjani]

^ Have you done it with a mage before? Perhaps that is the difference.

 

Maybe if you have multiple options, the game gives one a higher priority over another. I play a Trev warrior. I also do take the nobility knowledge perk (for RP reasons). The only alternative option I get, even with the perk, is the special Trevelyan noble option, "Do you know who I am?"

 

What is his different response if you "glare"? The only other response I've seen is his displeased one if you actually kill Ponchard. I think there is also an Inquisitor one that plays out in a similar way to the noble Trev.

 

I always used a human mage to romance Dorian.

 

The thing is, there are no other options available that could override the nobility knowledge perk. I can either agree to Ponchards terms or not, even if I try to intimidate him it's the option between help him, don't help him or kill him.

 

There is very little difference in the dialogue but it's there

Dorian always says something about people will think he is using hte inquisitor to which the quizzy responds something like

"Why using me? I only had to glare at the man to get the amulet."

And then Dorian says something like. "Oh yes, the Inquisitor glares and the worlds bows."

[Arlee]

As much as I dislike helping Ponchard Dorian's point about him being well within his rights to be a ****** is valid. Also, his point about not forcing people to bend to your will because you say so is also valid... he's so difficult

 

My solution is usually to go with, I think it's Leliana's wartable option, where you ask the guild to extend an invitation to him but tell them they can decide too not invite him to actually join since he sends on the amulet as soon as he receives the invitation. It's a bit underhanded but man he really pisses me off, so I'm mostly good with it... and Dorian seems to be as well.

[Carjani]

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally understand Dorians point and my usual way to solve the quest ist to help Ponchard, sometimes even with Josephine, which is exactly what Ponchard wants. I just can't understand why I can't select the nobility knowledge perk.

Killing ponchard is the only solution, which I would never do. Not only because it ends Dorians romance, but it is also so "babaric". Ponchard is only playing the game. Yes he is using and manipulating the inquisitor, but any other noble in Orlais would probably do the same if they where in the position.

And to kill a man because he doesn't sell a piece of jewelery....nahhh....

 

Another thing which I don't understand from a roleplaying point is why only noble trevelyans and qunari can intimidate Ponchard sucessfully.

I mean a big horned guy threatening you okay...but the Trevelyan is using his familiy connections in this one and I think it's a little over the top.

The Trevelyan are the 7/8th important noble family of ostwick, a city state far away from Orlais, why should they have that much influence there to destroy a rich businessmen completely? And the inquisitor isn't even the Bann or the heir of the family.

And ponchard is scared of a free marches noble and not of a guy who can burn of his face with a click of this fingers, while all the rest of the world goes on and on how dangerous mages are....

[Gervaise]

I'm not sure but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the nobility perk only works on its own without the other pre-requisites (like being a qunari) if you have done Wicked Eyes and impressed the nobility there.    I can't say for certain because I invariably play elves and have certainly only romanced Dorian with an elf, so had no hope of intimidating Ponchard, although I believe I didn't actually have the nobility perk at that time.

 

Whilst I don't like being manipulated by Ponchard, it is not as though he stole the amulet.    He acquired it by legitimate trade.    Dorian must have been satisfied with what he received for it (although he should have realised its worth to a non-Altus and how it could be misused), so Ponchard seems well within his rights to insist on meeting his terms before he will relinquish it.   (I hate how many of Leliana's solutions to problems are to trick and deceive people, even if some of them seem to deserve it.   I feel using her methods justifies the accusation that the Inquisition is corrupt, which is probably why Dorian doesn't like it either).

 

The trouble is you are in a no win situation really.    Dorian doesn't want you interfering because it will seem like he is taking advantage of you, he doesn't like you intimidating the man, he is uncomfortable with you using the Inquisition resources to get it back, yet he does want it back and seems to have no real plan for getting it back without you.

[Arlee]

Hmm, I didn't think you could use the nobility perk on it's own to successfully intimidate him. I'd have to check but I thought I tried on my Elf Templar, and I'm pretty sure it was after Wicked, and it didn't work.

[nightscrawl]

The trouble is you are in a no win situation really.    Dorian doesn't want you interfering because it will seem like he is taking advantage of you, he doesn't like you intimidating the man, he is uncomfortable with you using the Inquisition resources to get it back, yet he does want it back and seems to have no real plan for getting it back without you.

While he doesn't want you to interfere at all, he doesn't seem to mind the Trevelyan noble intimidation. To that, his response is, "Hmph, I'd feel bad for the fellow if he wasn't such a toad."

This quest isn't really about Dorian, or the amulet, it's about the Inquisitor and how he chooses to react to the situation, which is why the numerous paths are so very interesting. Ask him about it, or not. Bring him along, or not. How do you get it back? In response to Dorian's concerns, do you make the sappy remark, the sexually suggestive one, or the direct one?

 

It may seem like a no-win situation at the time, especially since Dorian offers no explanation as to why he doesn't want help, but you do actually win: you win Dorian.

[Just Here For Popcorns]

(And Gamlen's stupid joke...)

 

It does not exist, but there are those who do not know it.