22146 respuestas en este tema

[Gervaise]

He is wearing something in his romance tarot card,   We had a bit of a debate a few pages back whether that was it.   It does look more generic than something specific to his house but it does have a two headed snake design that appears in a lot of his outfits and the bottom is vaguely reminiscent of a peacock tail, so there is a good chance that is the House Pavus symbol.

[nightscrawl]

Stupid question:

What does "The Parvus Birthright" amulet look like? Do we know? Is there concept art of it anywhere?

He is wearing something in his romance tarot card,   We had a bit of a debate a few pages back whether that was it.   It does look more generic than something specific to his house but it does have a two headed snake design that appears in a lot of his outfits and the bottom is vaguely reminiscent of a peacock tail, so there is a good chance that is the House Pavus symbol.

Here is a pic...



The gems appear to be,
* 1st, top tier, pale green or teal
* 2nd, pale red or orange
* 3rd, pink
* 4th, white

 
While he IS wearing what can only be presumed to be the Pavus Birthright in the romance tarot card, seeing as how that is the romance quest, it is difficult to say if that is an accurate representation or artistic license. Many of the tarot cards have "artistic license" components to them.

There is a lot of common snake imagery in the game associated with the Tevinter art assets. This image in particular is what makes me think that it's more artistic license than anything else...



BUT that tarot image is the only thing we have to go on. There is no dialogue in the game referring to its appearance, nor are there any official pictures anywhere. So if you want to use the tarot as a reference for fanfic or anything of the sort, I think that is a perfectly reasonable action, given the limits we're presented with.

If I was on Twitter, I'd ask DG about it, but I'm not sure he'd even respond; he seems to have gotten out of the Dragon Age headspace.

[Gervaise]

I suppose it is possible that every Magister birthright amulet has the snake symbol at the top because it signifies Tevinter and then you have the part associated with your house at the bottom  Hence me wondering if that is a stylised peacock tail.   It is also not clear from the image but there appear to be lines in the middle of the gems.  Perhaps the amulet has some sort of rune in the middle that stands for "Pavus".    It must have some real significance beyond being purely decorative because of that merchant recognising it as such.   

 

It is a pity we couldn't see what other Magisters and their relatives have in the game but it would seem they don't usually have it on display, at least outside Tevinter.   Neither Alexius, Felix or Erimond have any sort of adornment, just their clothes.  

[nightscrawl]

It is a pity we couldn't see what other Magisters and their relatives have in the game but it would seem they don't usually have it on display, at least outside Tevinter.   Neither Alexius, Felix or Erimond have any sort of adornment, just their clothes.

I don't think that's a good thing to base it on. None of the NPCs anywhere have any sort of adornment, even the Empress of Orlais (outside of her mask). It's a model limitation*.

 

I'd imagine that every family has their own thing; some have an amulet, some a ring (like a signet ring), etc.

 

It's hard to say how the merchant knew what it was. Perhaps Dorian told him. Perhaps, being a merchant that does business in Tevinter, he was already familiar with them. Maybe he was knowledgeable about birthrights and assumed from the iconography on the amulet itself. However, that does suggest the question: if Dorian didn't tell him he was from Tevinter (which he might not as to avoid inevitable prejudice in the South), how did the merchant know? Are we supposed to assume that Tevinters are distinctive in some way that might be more obvious if this were real, perhaps an accent, or something?

 

Also, there aren't lines in the middle of the gems. I scanned that myself from my own The Art of Dragon Age: Inquisition. They're just normal-looking gems. Anything you think you see are artifacts from scanning the paper.

 

 

[edit]

* The one exception to this is Iron Bull if you do his romance quest and give him a dragon tooth necklace, which I believe you can see him wearing from that point onward. Even then, there are special game files specifically in reference to that, and I believe it's only visible while in Skyhold and not while out in the world where he has his regular armor on (different models from the Haven/Skyhold bodies). I'd imagine that was done because of his general appearance of having no upper body clothing that would cover it up, and because it's a significant thing for the NPC. With Dorian, they can get away with not showing it and just have everyone assume it's underneath his clothing.

Editado por nightscrawl, 21 julio 2016 - 01:25 .

[Gervaise]

I think the snake head thing tipped off the merchant that Dorian was from Tevinter even if nothing else did.  As you have pointed out, it seems a standard Tevinter icon and so no one outside of Tevinter would want to be seen with it, unless they were a native of Tevinter.    So he sees what is clearly a valuable object, quite possibly actually made of gold but if not then still some form of precious metal, inlaid with gems. Dorian was also wearing fairly decent looking clothing when we first meet him in Redcliffe and the merchant probably knows their value too, so clearly this client isn't from the lower classes but has obviously fallen on hard times.   He says he gave Dorian a fair price for it, which he probably did.   Then he gets to wondering and perhaps makes a few enquiries but what really tips him off is when Dorian wants it back.  Now the merchants knows he has a valuable bargaining chip to get him what he really wants. 

[Beerfish]

Great all around character, lots of personality, funny as heck and very useful in actual game play.  I place him just slightly behind Sera in my list of fav characters from the game.

[DreamerM]

I think the snake head thing tipped off the merchant that Dorian was from Tevinter even if nothing else did. As you have pointed out, it seems a standard Tevinter icon and so no one outside of Tevinter would want to be seen with it, unless they were a native of Tevinter.    So he sees what is clearly a valuable object, quite possibly actually made of gold but if not then still some form of precious metal, inlaid with gems. Dorian was also wearing fairly decent looking clothing when we first meet him in Redcliffe and the merchant probably knows their value too, so clearly this client isn't from the lower classes but has obviously fallen on hard times.   He says he gave Dorian a fair price for it, which he probably did.   Then he gets to wondering and perhaps makes a few enquiries but what really tips him off is when Dorian wants it back.  Now the merchants knows he has a valuable bargaining chip to get him what he really wants.

 

I imagine it's not just the snake insignia: Dorian's accent, grammar, clothing, hairstyle... If this merchant does business in Tevinter, he learned to spot one of these high-born mage lords a long time ago. The Parvus family is incredibly wealthy, and even if Dorian took off with little more then the clothes on his back, he still should have been able to sell those for a pretty amount... although, those who grow up rich quite often don't really know what their own belongings are worth and aren't very good at haggling. They've never had to worry about prices before.

I wonder if maybe Dorian was trying to sell something else, like a robe or a ring or something else he had that was valuable but mundane, but the Merchant spotted the Birthright and insisted that he would only buy that. As Dorian said, having a Birthright, even one that isn't yours, is useful. Dorian didn't want to sell it, but he really needed the money and was sure he could buy it back later. Being on the outs with his family probably helped.

[nightscrawl]

I imagine it's not just the snake insignia: Dorian's accent, grammar, clothing, hairstyle... If this merchant does business in Tevinter, he learned to spot one of these high-born mage lords a long time ago.

The reason I ask is because the game doesn't make him too distinctive in that way and is also fast and loose with accents. Why couldn't he have been a young Nevarran noble, for example? I agree with your second point, but it's not obvious to the player that Dorian is distinctly Tevinter, no more so than, say, Alexius or Felix, who have their own style.

 

Sure, people from Antiva have this Spanish/Italian mishmash accent, Starkhaven has a Scottish accent, and Orlais has a French accent. (I'm not counting Anders as an Ander because of his age, so who knows about that accent). They've tried for this Irish and Welsh thing with the Dalish. Everywhere else -- Rivain, Ferelden, Tevinter -- has varying regional English accents of various social/class orders, some of which are the generic English accent used in a lot of entertainment done by non-English actors (First Enchanter Irving is done by an American, Oghren's VA). And then you have an anomaly like Sera, who has an accent that hasn't been in DA before; it makes her distinctive, true, but doesn't help with consistency. The closest to the "lower class" accent that is most common in the DA games is the Ferelden Cockney that is done by Greg Ellis as several NPCs in DAO.

 

I wonder if maybe Dorian was trying to sell something else, like a robe or a ring or something else he had that was valuable but mundane, but the Merchant spotted the Birthright and insisted that he would only buy that. As Dorian said, having a Birthright, even one that isn't yours, is useful. Dorian didn't want to sell it, but he really needed the money and was sure he could buy it back later. Being on the outs with his family probably helped.

I don't think this is the case because one of the alternate dialogues talks about him wanting to divest himself of the last ties to his family. He needed money, he had something that was valuable, and he also had the frame of mind to get rid of that particular object, so he took advantage of it.

[Gervaise]

I have wondered about the whole spotting Dorian was from Tevinter thing.    He says the Blacksmith spat at him when he first met him.    I suppose word could have got around about his origins.   However, if he joins after Hushed Whispers the word also ought to have gone around that he saved their beloved Herald's life.    If he is there after Champions of the Just he warned of the approaching army at risk of his own life and was tending the wounded and dying.   It seems a bit ungrateful on the part of the Blacksmith to actually spit at him.   Mind you Giselle didn't like having him around, so I wonder  that was the reason the Blacksmith responded so badly, because she had been pointing out his origins to him, without the qualifier as to why Dorian was there at all.   So the Blacksmith, unaware of who Dorian is, asks Mother Giselle and she simply replies "a mage from Tevinter" and leaves it at that.

 

Still, if that wasn't the case, I wonder if there was something about Dorian that alerted people to the fact he was from Tevinter.   It couldn't have been his clothes because in Champions of the Just he turns up in just his casual clothes (presumably having had to sell everything else in order to survive).   They are somewhat sparkly though, suggesting nobility and Dorian moves with such an air of confidence, it would immediately strike you that he wasn't like your everyday Circle mage.   Then there is his general appearance, dusky skin, dark hair that suggests he may come from sunnier climes.  Mind you Dorian does complain about the climate fairly regularly.   I can imagine him being in the inn and saying how freezing it is, upon which one of the listeners says "Where are you from then?" On Dorian informing them, it isn't just the weather that is frosty.

 

To an Orlesian Merchant though, may be Dorian's accent is a giveaway.   I seem to recall the Mortalitasi from Nevarra had a distinctive accent and Cassandra certainly does, Fereldens are also meant to be distinctive, even if it hasn't been consistent in game.   There is a definite accent to Antiva and may be each state in the Freemarches has something to distinguish them.    Simply by having a "posh" accent without any particular inflection to it, might be the give-away that he comes from Tevinter.   Plus he only needs to swear once for it to be apparent.    There is that piece in World of Thedas about common curses being a note from a surface dwarf merchant to his apprentice about how to spot different people and how worried you should be when they use them.      So if the merchant initially offered him a poor price for his amulet, Dorian may have sworn simply because he was hoping for more and instantly the merchant knows he is from Tevinter.

[Sarah1281]

I imagine it's not just the snake insignia: Dorian's accent, grammar, clothing, hairstyle... If this merchant does business in Tevinter, he learned to spot one of these high-born mage lords a long time ago.

Thedas is remarkably insular and knows virtually nothing about anything not on their continent. They have like eight human countries (Anderfels, Antiva, Ferelden, Free Marches, Nevarra, Orlais, Rivain, Tevinter) so I wouldn't be surprised if anyone at all educated can spot the tells from the seven they're not from. It's like recognizing if someone's from a neighboring country today.

 

 

It seems a bit ungrateful on the part of the Blacksmith to actually spit at him. Mind you Giselle didn't like having him around, so I wonder that was the reason the Blacksmith responded so badly, because she had been pointing out his origins to him, without the qualifier as to why Dorian was there at all.

 

I’d agree it’s really ungrateful but I can’t blame Mother Giselle for that. I mean, I think she pretty much admits that she doesn’t try and correct the anti-Tevinter narrative about Dorian because she doesn’t think that she knows him well enough (not that she tries to fix that either…) but that’s different than outright encouraging dissent in the ranks which I can’t imagine she would do, particularly with how fast she backs down when the Inquisitor isn’t interested in being suspicious of Dorian. I am actually curious how when the Inquisitor asks what kind of rumors and Mother Giselle refuses to tell him what they are (which seems pretty reasonable to me, must be awkward and probably using language she doesn’t want to say in front of him) the Inquisitor decides this is an indication that Mother Giselle has been gossiping and spreading rumors herself. Which she might have, I don’t know, but how do you get that from what she said? Like I don’t want to repeat them translates into so you’ve repeated them before? What?

 

At any rate, I’ll agree it’s incredibly ungrateful since Dorian saves the Inquisitor and thus probably Thedas no matter when he comes in but how much do the rank-and-file know about what he’s done? All of the companions are suspicious of him when he first shows up in the Chantry offering help and the Inquisitor himself can accuse Dorian of being a spy for Corypheus when they first get to Skyhold if they’ve just met. Dorian points out sending a spy would require Corypheus to correctly predict the Inquisitor would survive which does seem unlikely but it doesn’t cost much to be cautious and send someone along who would be there in the unlikely event the Inquisitor gets away and who could just quickly come back if the Inquisition is destroyed. I don’t really get why Dorian was barely able to get there ahead of the army since individuals move much quicker than entire armies but because of that he wasn’t able to give a meaningful warning. Everyone knew something was happening and Dorian could fill in some of the details about who but ultimately it would have been fine without him (unless Roderick wouldn’t have been able to get to see Cullen and explain about the path without his help).

 

Still, such ingratitude doesn’t come as any sort of surprise. Tevinter is the token even teammate. Everyone hates them. They have no allies and never have. Everyone still talks about how terrible they were for burning Andraste and all the slavery and blood magic. They refuse to acknowledge the Chantry split. You bring up the idea of allying with Tevinter and Dorian says they don’t even believe in allies anymore and made their inability to have people work with them a source of national pride. Everyone just sort of ignores them and their increasingly desperate fight against the Qunari because it’s not their problem. And we quickly find out a Tevinter cult is responsible for this and one of the original Tevinter magisters who by the way are to blame for the Blight in the first place and that doesn’t help matters. And, really, other than magisters on vacation who probably bring slaves or escaped slaves themselves who have nothing good to say about Tevinter (even Krem left because he’d have been murdered for joining the army and not putting the gender Tevinter expected on the forms), the only time anyone even meets anyone from Tevinter is when they’re a blood mage or slaver out to abduct people or otherwise screw them over. Most of Tevinter doesn’t even really support the Venatori but they are definitely pro attacking the south and watching them fall to chaos. Dorian’s probably the first Tevinter they’ve ever met who isn’t looking to kill or enslave them. And it’s not like the idea of prejudice and people assuming everyone from an enemy nation is evil and mistreating them is such an out there concept. That’s one of the reasons Dorian cites for why SOMEONE from Tevinter needs to fight Corypheus. 

[DreamerM]

Thank you!! This is obviously stylized, but it's a great resource. Thank you for scanning it in.
 

Here is a pic...


If I was on Twitter, I'd ask DG about it, but I'm not sure he'd even respond; he seems to have gotten out of the Dragon Age headspace.

He responded, said no formal art was made for it. So I guess the amulet on the Romance card is what it COULD look like. There's no evidence to the contrary.

I actually love the amount of brashness it must have taken Dorian to sell what was essentially his I.D card. I can imagine him telling himself this is it, he's going to be no one, he's going to leave Pavus behind and maybe take a new name and be totally new person in a new land. Then he actually got to this new land and discovered it's not as easy as that. Everyone he meets seems eager to remind him of who and what he is. There's too much about him that couldn't have come from anywhere else. He doesn't seem like the sort of guy who ever could lie about anything.

And yeah, I wonder about his accent. I wonder if Tevinter have a distinctive accent... and I think at the very least, Dorian's accent gives him away as highly educated. Almost all business in Thedas is conducted in the Common language, and Dorian is of course fluent, but I think "the language of Tevinter" must still exist, since if you take him on the mission to find the ancient Tevinter dragon book, he says "no one's spoken that form of Taveen for five hundred years." Meaning some form of Taveen is still spoken somewhere.
 

 

[nightscrawl]

Thank you!! This is obviously stylized, but it's a great resource. Thank you for scanning it in.
 
He responded, said no formal art was made for it. So I guess the amulet on the Romance card is what it COULD look like. There's no evidence to the contrary.

I actually love the amount of brashness it must have taken Dorian to sell what was essentially his I.D card. I can imagine him telling himself this is it, he's going to be no one, he's going to leave Pavus behind and maybe take a new name and be totally new person in a new land. Then he actually got to this new land and discovered it's not as easy as that. Everyone he meets seems eager to remind him of who and what he is. There's too much about him that couldn't have come from anywhere else. He doesn't seem like the sort of guy who ever could lie about anything.

Unfortunately, you only get the lines about his selling it if you take a certain path -- surprising him with it -- with the romance quest. He was so angry and hurt about the whole conflict that it seems like he wanted nothing whatsoever to do with his family ever again. Part of the dialogue has him say that his father noticed it was gone and asked about it, and that is when Dorian realized it was foolish and "childish" to sell it because it's a part of who he is.

It's a really great bit of dialogue, and I wish it had been in the path that I choose to take with that quest. I love it when Dorian drops his guard and is candid about his feelings.

 

And yeah, I wonder about his accent. I wonder if Tevinter have a distinctive accent... and I think at the very least, Dorian's accent gives him away as highly educated. Almost all business in Thedas is conducted in the Common language, and Dorian is of course fluent, but I think "the language of Tevinter" must still exist, since if you take him on the mission to find the ancient Tevinter dragon book, he says "no one's spoken that form of Taveen for five hundred years." Meaning some form of Taveen is still spoken somewhere.

Tevene seems to be more of a scholar's language at this point, with most people speaking the Common Trade tongue.
 

Patrick Weekes @PatrickWeekes
@kaygryph It's more common than Latin -- I'd say it's like French in Victorian London, phrases peppering speech as a sign of education.

 
In those times, and earlier, it was common for educated persons to know how to read French, as well as some Greek and Latin. They would have been expected to know and be familiar with certain passages and these were a sign of education. But people rarely spoke it, beyond certain phrases, even if they could read it.
 
It makes total sense to me that Tevene is this way as well. I imagine that Dorian can read the more modern iterations of Tevene, just as it's not as difficult for us to read Middle English (The Canterbury Tales), but Old English (Beowulf) is basically an entirely different language and requires serious education. I wouldn't be surprised if the book he wants after Adamant, the Liberalum, is written in Tevene; he was able to study that.

[BloodKaiden]

Finished Trespasser with canon play finally and was satisfied with my James/Dorian ending! Inspired me to go back and dig up a few pictures of the times together this couple had! I doubt any other romance will hit me in the feels like Dorian's.

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James has the best angry face and Dorian made him display it often.

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Damn...I might just make a new character and do this whole thing over again!

[nightscrawl]

^ Grats! So nice to see new people playing and enjoying the romance.

 

[Arlee]

Sooo it looks like at the end of august the forums are being shut down As someone who greatly prefers the forums to reddit, tumblr, et al this makes me really sad

 

If you haven't seen the post about it here's the link: https://forum.biowar...ing-our-forums/

[Gervaise]

Seen it and I am heart broken.   I know we sometimes have our differences but I just love it here.    I'm wondering, is there anyway to save the entire 886 pages of Dorian forum to my computer?   Otherwise I know what I am going to be doing between now and shut down, saving edited highlights of all the best pictures and posts.   It's been great knowing you while it lasted.

[Reznore57]

Seen it and I am heart broken.   I know we sometimes have our differences but I just love it here.    I'm wondering, is there anyway to save the entire 886 pages of Dorian forum to my computer?   Otherwise I know what I am going to be doing between now and shut down, saving edited highlights of all the best pictures and posts.   It's been great knowing you while it lasted.

 

I know sometimes you've got some web cache stuff where some site tthat no longer exist still have some archive...but don't know how that works exactly.

 

It's been several years I'm hanging around here so it feels weird to imagine no more BSN.

Anyway it's possible to get a new forum , I mean it's not like people from Bioware were involved anyway.The issue is having the community move too.

Most likely we'll loose people in transit :s.

[Arlee]

Yea this thread in particular is what I'm going to miss the most. So many discussions here helped me see various things in different ways I never would have thought of or considered before, which is just invaluable. I never find discussions like that on Reddit, Tumblr often just feels like an echo chamber, and twitter is not at all conducive to having real indepth convos.

[Sarah1281]

That announcement made me so mad. They're closing it because the devs have better ways of communicating with people? Who comes here just to talk to them? 

[nightscrawl]

I will miss you, Dorian thread. I've had so many great discussions (and arguments!), seen things in new ways, and learned new bits of lore. This is the character thread I've posted in the most across all three games, and is probably the thread I've contributed to the most since I joined the BSN in 2009. I've been really proud of this thread for having so much great content, respect and admiration for the character, and love of his romance.

 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I haven't posted in ages (possibly at least a year?), but I just wanted to say goodbye to the Dorian thread that I have such fond memories of.

[BlastedLands]

I haven't posted in ages (possibly at least a year?), but I just wanted to say goodbye to the Dorian thread that I have such fond memories of.

Me too... Blargh, just started obsessing about DAI again, and now this.

*cries in a corner*