334 réponses à ce sujet

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok I figured the process is nearly identical but I pick a different map. The tutorial I saw had an ambient occlusion option (obviously most tutorials are much newer versions of 3ds)

 

but this is all I have:

 

 

Can I use any of these?

[-Semper-]

in this case you have to bake a lighting map. this tutorial should help - it's really well written and explains the whole creation of a model. don't forget to read the other pages

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok. I got this by myself just by guessing that I would use a lighting map:

 

https://lh3.googleus...y_light_map.jpg

 

It does however look SUPER black on the backside, so obviously the scene lighting is not right.

 

At least I had one correct instinct in the process to date.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok that was easy. I notice this guy likes to use pure white isntead of grey. So I am returning to the tutorial above regarding the stages of colouring. I'll google a few things about adding colour detail and so on. There has to be something beyond gradients I'm sure.

 

Out for now.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok I do have one question since the tutorial has not said anything about it:

 

http://www.michaelda...reprocess04.jpg

 

He says he "layers" the 3 maps (I am only doing 2, thats fine though). I am assuming the regular colours are on the bottom of the layers window list, as per the order of his "+ signs" in the comment. But how is he layering them? It can't just be normal because if I do that the top layer only, shows. And if I reduce opacity the colours fade all to crap on the colour layer. He must be doing something that he's not saying.

 

I see that he "exported the lines" which I don't know how to do. But that should be an issue if I just delete my UV template at the bottom at the end right? I can still see the lines by using opacity while editing.

 

EDIT: my only guess is those ambient maps are somehow set to partially transparent or something? It seems like the black shows through the colours, but not the whitest parts.. I think.

[-Semper-]

generally the 2 main layers are blended via "multiply", or any equivalent blending mode of gimp. dunno if their layers are called exactly like photoshop's. the main layers are base color, ambient occlusion and/or height map or some kind of gradient or shadow map, though everything after the occlusion map is optional. if there are other layers (like for details, noises, photos, etc.) you can play around with different blending modes to create happy accidents.

 

you can export your uv map though tools>render uvw templates when you edit the unwrap uvw modifier.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ya i know how to render in 3ds max, although I can see why you would think I only know normal map rendering.

I created each layer myself in gimp. So you are saying there's a way to set the entire layer as a multiply ? I'll find it out thanks. And this multiply goes on the ao and the ao is on top. That makes sense.

[Tchos]

Yes, entire layers can be set to any blending mode, and Multiply is the best for ones that are mainly white with grey and black detailing.  Use Screen for the opposite.  In that tutorial, after he set up the other maps, he painted on details with a layer in Overlay mode.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok I set it to multiply. But it's SO black like someone spilled oil on the painting I did. Or better example, a xerox set way too dark.

 

The basic layers of me painting solid colours, I set to normal as it's one of the "maps".

 

The bottom map is normal too. I set the basic layers to overlay but they got worse. Plus they shouldn't overlay... they should be replacing the template entire on the bottom.

 

I thought I would be clever and select the AO map by colour, which extracted most of the UV islands and brighten them up, leaving the background at zero. They are lightened up but they still look like burnt black ink toner all over the colour maps.

 

 

 

 

 

I would also add that this AO map does not at all show the nice ripples like the normal map. But I am hoping in game, they will reappear once the normal map and lighting hit it, as before. This is just an aside thought, not answer required.

[Tchos]

Can you show what your AO map looks like without overlays?

[-Semper-]

i guess there's something you're doing fundamentally wrong. without showing pictures of your image and the layers plus there blending mode it's difficult to give any advice. i also get the impression that you're doing too much in too little time without really knowing what exactly you're doing.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I have increased the levels of the map and gotten a bit better results. He's looking more like a sketch that was done in pencil with too heavy of shading than a xerox now.

 

I have a feeling the tutorial guys approach is generating TOO dark results. He used pure white, for one thing. I am going to retry this with a less hard contrast.

 

Basically this map contrast is too high, to sum it up without pictures. The dark spots are pitch black like the back side of the moon, then the light spots can be totally bright. I need to shrink down that overall spectrum in my opinion. I'll start with a different light bake. He mentioned putting the ground plane farther away would reduce the intensity, in the tutorial.

[Tchos]

to sum it up without pictures.

 

In this case, a picture is worth a thousand words.  Visual aids are a near necessity when asking for help on graphical matters.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I'm going to try a few ways of getting a better map on the 3d end myself before occupying any of your(s) time(s). It seems a fairly simple concept but the map isn't good. If there are any settings to adjust other than putting it to multiply on the 2d side of things, let me know.

[-Semper-]

If there are any settings to adjust other than putting it to multiply on the 2d side of things, let me know.

 

that's the point: we don't know how it looks, so we don't know what could cause that or how it could be improved.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok I got things settled in here better. I backed off the ground plane a little. Then a LOT. Then some more. I got rid of those pitch black shadows like he said, and the dark parts of my map matched his. However his map just seems to go whiter where mine is just light gray.

 

I also addressed the colours "blackening issue" in a second way. I took each of the colour layers, and added 32 to their saturation (and 9 to lightness). Now they look much like they did before the AO desaturated them. I guess it was more desaturating them than darkening. I expect this is a result of my map being grey at lightest, and not white.

 

So as I am typing this I am actually now thinking that may need to be addressed. I'm going to try one more thing and if it doesn't work I'll post my AO map here.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

dont forget to play with the brightness and contrast settings of your layers too.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Thank you. I actually found out exactly what it was. 

 

My environment settings (not listed in the tutorial, but something I recall changing for mesh building) were set to grey ambient and grey whatever the other one was. I got them up to pretty much pure white, and voila. A perfect xray. And now my 2d image is all better and I am ready to continue learning this 2d process in the tutorial you linked.

[Eguintir Eligard]

https://lh6.googleus...metry_shows.jpg

 

A new problem seems to be surfacing. 

 

Issue: Ambient occlusion is actually exposing the low poly-ness of the mesh... his calves and arms for example look "highlighted" where ever this is an edge. Almost a subtle wireframe. He also has a vew odd dark patchs on his gut. Obviously the light dies there.

 

Solution: I figured I would use the smudge tool on the AO layer to clean that up.

 

Is that a good idea?

[Eguintir Eligard]

GIMP and 2d concepts seem to come together rapidly as compared to 2d. I already see the possibilities are endless, but easily achieved by combining photos to achieve new unique textures. 

 

I do have a 2d question though, I have not been able to remedy by google or experimenting:

 

Let's say I have a grey height map. I want my colours layer which is on top of it, to take the shape (bumpiness) of the height map, but not lose all their saturation when I put them over top. How would I do that?

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Multiply.  Adjust it's strength with brightness, contrast etc..  But that's what your AO map is for, not a height map. 

[-Semper-]

one way would be to adjust the levels of the height map to reflect an ambient occlusion map - more whites and blacks instead of gray. blend both layers via multiply. you could also take both layers without adjusting and blend them via overlay. either way afterwards you always have to play around with adjustment settings (brightness, contrast, level correction). you can't blend different layers and get the same color/brightness/contrast outcome as if looked at separately.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

If you want to do this quick and easy, and try something new for fun, download this.  http://www.crazybump.com/

 

Load your heightmap, it will automatically generate and AO map from it, load in your diffuse map and you can add your AO to it giving you full control.  It's super fast, super easy, and you can even load in your model to see what it looks like real time.  Free full access trial for 2 weeks or something.   You can adjust the power or you normal as well if you want.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Well I am aware that AO should be doing that, but the shirt ripples really don't show up with that single OMNI light in the tutorial. However I suspected in game it might, because everything seems to show better with the multiple lights in NWN2 and it does:

 

https://lh5.googleus...ple_toolset.jpg

 

Also, his colour temperatures seem to match the in game models so I guess they are ok after all.

I am not sure why his arm is making a crazily long shadow but hopefully goes away when I animate his arms down for idle modes.

 

So I think as this stage in GIMP I will just blend in some photo textures... like some sharp looking burlap shorts and so on, maybe a bit of a skin texture for the skin areas to blend. That should be about it. I don't plan to draw in any artistic pencilling like the tutorials final stage except for fingers nails. Anything else anyone would suggest beyond that? I also don't wan him to be covered in stains and sewed on patches because I want him to be versatile to look poor or of medium wealth.

 

So if there is nothing else you would add other than what I have planned, that's what I will do and it will be either head time or animation time depending on the order. I can animate him before doing the head can I not? Should I not?

[-Semper-]

Well I am aware that AO should be doing that, but the shirt ripples really don't show up with that single OMNI light in the tutorial.

 

if you're talking about the tutorial i linked then you should read it carefully. it says that you should place a skylight and select light tracer before rendering the scene. an omni light is something totally different.