334 réponses à ce sujet

[Eguintir Eligard]

 

 

Firstly, it looks to me like you are working in milkshape 3d?

 

False. It has already been stated by semper what I am using.

 

 

 

 

 

You will also find that it will be almost impossible to animate seeing as I can see by its construction it has none of the correct edge loops for facial rigging. 

 

I'm sorry, my fatso can't hear you because of all the edge loops on his face

 

 

I think it's not to shabby for someone who "slapped a smooth modifier on mud that he 'winged' it on".

 

 

I did widen the nose once before you said that Semper, but I did consciously choose to give him beedy close together eyes, which I will change

on other head variants once I get this guy going. I do think the nose could widen yet a little more though so I will check that out.

And if you are talking about the outward bump in the middle of the upper lip... I found that weird but wanted to follow the tutorial exactly and they

left it like that. Now that I am done and going off tutorial to finish, I will manually pull that back the way it should be.

 

FYI just so there is no confusion, as I was not trying to keep anything secret, this is done box modelling in 3ds max.

I think I have as good a tutorial I will get for "projecting" a detailed high poly model onto a lower poly mesh, but I was talking about the actual GIMP or photoshop steps... the TRUE 2d aspect. I think I will just try it out with a repeating skin texture and see how it goes.

[Xaltar81]

Take a chill pill there dude I was trying to help, if you can't take constructive criticism then don't waste your time learning, you will get slammed a lot, it comes with the territory. There is a big difference between insult and constructive crit, I didn't say your model was **** and don't give up your day job, I pointed out weak areas and perhaps guessed your modeling app wrong but that does not warrant the kind of response you gave. I didn't have to take the time to try to help you, I chose to help someone getting started because I have been there. But fine, if you are too defensive then carry on, you clearly know better than I do. 

[Eguintir Eligard]

You went on for 2 paragraphs about how my model was "winging it" and how it needs circular zones or it won't work, and told me I slapped a smooth modifier on it.

All three of these are false statements, and I gave answers to that effect. You also said you could tell, not suspected, it was done without facial circles. I just proved you wrong with graphical proof. I don't see what accepting three false observations and saying "thanks I'll do that would accomplish."

 

I'm not at odds with criticism at all. People could show up and say that's so-so at best, not as good as the in game stock NPCs. I couldn't argue with that. As a 3d modeller I consider myself in the almost totally new category, and I may never have the goods to be better than that. I even specifically asked in this thread how people might suggest the face be altered.

 

But I would definitely refute someone who makes black and white statements that are simply not true, despite your certainty that you are right "just by looking".

 

Milkshake? No.

Winged it and didn't use pologyonal techniques? False. Box modelling tutorial.

Has no circular regions to allow for animation? See pic again.

 

I did everything you said I should have. People may not like the results. But they were done in the right techniques that you are both suggesting I use, while telling me that I didn't.

[-Semper-]

no need to attack. while xaltar's comment was slightly harsh your response was not that peacekeeping either, especially the second one right above. the modding community is small enough, we don't need to put each other off.

 

@eguintir: the next time you post a wireshot please switch off nurms subdivision. this way people are also able to better help you with the edge flow.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I think I will refrain from posting any further wireshots  .

 

But I do benefit from the observational advices, such as proportions and what not. I knew myself the face felt a little pinched all along, but was having trouble knowing what to move or alter. As a general rule, I can tell when something looks wrong to me, but can't always determine the way to fix it, from a sculpting standpoint.

[kamal_]

I know zero about modelling, so I have no idea about any of this and can't give any of the type of advice EE is asking about. I just watch the progress.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ah but you might Kamal. The main things I need to know are just what Semper said. What is "wrong" with the model in basic, observational terms.

 

He said the nose bridge was too narrow, the eyes too close. I also needed to indent the upper lip.

 

I think the difference will illustrate how right or wrong he was:

 

before and after

 

 

I like it!

[kevL]

yep

[rjshae]

The face is shaping up nicely. The jaw is large, which will tend to mask a double-chin. But it is certainly a plausible look.

[Xaltar81]

I made some miscalls, I never disputed that, so whatever. You don't want my help I won't be offering anymore. Good luck.

[-Semper-]

@eguintir: it's coming along nicely

also try to play around with the edges which define the nasal wings. i marked them red in your wireshot.

 

i would shift them a little inwards and to the face so that the round corner ain't that near to the nose's tip.

[Lance Botelle]

Hi,

In my experience, *any* "reasonable" semblance to a humanoid will pass for me. After all, this is fantasy, so I would not be expecting a "real" or "perfect fat face" ... is that a contradiction in terms?

In some ways, the more weird fat features simply adds character. As long as it is "passable" from a working model, then I would say that it works for me.

As for actual modelling advice, I cannot say a word.

Cheers,
Lance.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I adjusted the nostrils both as recommened, but also lowered their upper limit. I could tell from the pictures that his nostrils began "higher" than the nose tip, which doesn't look very natural. I find the nose tip and nostrils tend to be uniform, kind of like a 3-bump scenario, not unlike a clover leaf. So the nose looks better with both the adjustments and I am going to proceed with the process where I create a 2d stencil on which I can try and paint the textures.

 

This is the stage where online tutorial assistance seems to fall into a black hole. I have already done animation, so this will be the make or break spot of this project.

 

I am very confident I can make a monochromatic fatty who looks around and walks, but I will see to it if I can't paint him a little better than that 

[PJ156]

 

 

This is the stage where online tutorial assistance seems to fall into a black hole. I have already done animation, so this will be the make or break spot of this project.

 

 This is the stage where you, as a modeler make it yours, and we, as consumers, say thank you.

 

PJ

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok this post I'll ask for a little input from the semper types.

 

The pelt looks pretty good to me, except the nose is all stretched. I feel like this would be because the head pelt mapping tutorial I did was based on a more or less

noseless creature (just 2 nose holes, no nose protrusion).

 

 

 

 

I can certainly experiment with this but I just wondered if adding an extra slice for the downward facing part (nostrils + surrounding) would do the trick or should I do that plus the entire nose where it is stretched.

 

So the rest of the viewers know, this is a technique where we unfold a 3d model like a box, and create flat surfaces on which to paint a 2d texture.

This part I've done before... the 2d texture stage next... daunting new grounds!

 

 

Thanks

[-Semper-]

it depends on the texture you're trying to add. if the head is symmetrical (even in texture), then you could cut the head vertically in half and map the ear as a separate island. this way you're making the most out of your texture map because only half of the face is using all the pixel data. suffice to say that you would loose the option to create a half scarred face. after mirroring your mesh you have to move one half of the uv islands out of the standard uv coordinates, else you will suffer baking errors if you try to create normal maps.

 

if you want to unwrap the head as a whole i would separate the downfacing part of the nose (no need to model nostrils), the ears, and cut right across the forehead along the hair line (but not from ear to ear) and down the middle to the neck. don't forget to often relax your uv islands.

 

there's also a nice plugin (textools) for 3dsmax which works like a charm. at least that is what i used years ago. you could even buy xray unwrap, wich is cheap as hell and will greatly automate the process.

[Eguintir Eligard]

So as I suspected there can be a few ways to do this. Basically I'm trying to group areas that are close to sharing the same 2d plane yes? And obviously with the least cuts possible.

I think i am actually going to attempt the full on 3d texture projection method. So my lack of 2d textures skills should be mitigated. Plus it looks like how any good game does it. Leery about the complexity but I seem to have a step by step guidef

[-Semper-]

Basically I'm trying to group areas that are close to sharing the same 2d plane yes?

 

not really. because a picture describes it better then my humble attempt:

the bright edges mark the uv seams. this should be enough to unwrap your head. additionally you could experiment with separating the ears and the bottom of the nose. and never forget: relax is your friend

[Eguintir Eligard]

I always drink a beer when doing modelling so relaxing is a given

[4760]

So as I suspected there can be a few ways to do this.

Absolutely!

You may have already read these tutorials, but just in case, you could have a look here or more especially here.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ok good stuff good stuff.

 

I would like to point out my main resource, a hard-made tutorial specific to this whole process for NWN2 for anyone else who wants to get involved.

 

It was done by former superstar community member Elysius.

 

http://nwn2faithless...bel/3D modeling

 

(newest posts are about skyrim, but if you go back enough youll see start to end modelling, rigging, texturing for nwn2).

 

Done at my request. I'm using it and I'll definitely make it be known so others might as well. He put a lot of work into his stuff, sadly

he didn't release most of it. But there is one sweet 5 headed hydra and custom snake model on the vault, never saw anyone use them yet in a campaign. Do see them!

 

Now back to my labratory.

[Tchos]

The hydra was used by Alupinu in Fanglewood, for one.  Not sure about others.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Hey Semper...

 

I notice that people seem to leave model parts "un-connected" in the 3ds max file, I've always thought they should need to be connected as a single object.

 

My question is about the only two non-connected objects on the head. The two hemi-spheres forming the eyes. They are not part of the unwrap UV map that is generating, and I am wondering if that is because they are not connected as a single object. Should they be? Or is there some way to get them to share the unwrap

bitmap?

 

I am also wondering if they are even part of the head (question specific to nwn2 here)... or are the eyes an entirely seperate file? I know they move around in game,

but bones could move them, even if they are connected as a unified object with the head.

 

Just want to make sure I have this set up right before Texture time! Thanks.

[-Semper-]

objects don't need to be connected. especially in the case of older game engines like nwn2 it's better to not connect every little detail like horns and rings and other stuff. in most cases this would create additional edges which add up to the budget.

to get them to share the same uv map you have to attach the object to the main mesh. then they're separated elements of a single mesh, but with only one uv space.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I think attach is what I meant. Thanks