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[Steelcan]

This thread is more posts with spoiler tags than actual posts now...

 

I'm a spoiler hound so I keep clicking them though...

[wcholcombe]

Optional side with them, Perhaps not to be anointed by them, I'd like the humor in that personally.

 

Having a Valshoth anointed by a Divine of the Chantry

 

The irony would be immense to me.

the crown would never fit on his horns.

[Hellion Rex]

This thread is more posts with spoiler tags than actual posts now...

 

I'm a spoiler hound so I keep clicking them though...

Yes...yes!!! DEVOUR THE SPOILERS!!!

[The Elder King]

Spoiler

Of the possible horrible outcomes and reasons behind this, it was probably the least horrible.

Spoiler

Why do you think that?
I wonder what will happen at the end of the book. I guess that after the varterral fight there might be some discussion between them (if they didn't already talk before)

.

[Master Warder Z_]

the crown would never fit on his horns.

 

._. Who said they had any?

 

They come in non horned and horned variants after all.

[Xilizhra]

Spoiler

Why do you think that?
I wonder what will happen at the end of the book. I guess that after the varterral fight there might be some discussion between them (if they didn't already talk before)

.

Spoiler

Because all of it was Celene's fault. It's just another example of Orlesian nobles being horrible and untrustworthy people. Really, I should have seen this coming sooner with Leliana, but... oh well. I've made peace with it so long as I can make brutal war on Orlais.

[wcholcombe]

Spoiler

Why do you think that?
I wonder what will happen at the end of the book. I guess that after the varterral fight there might be some discussion between them (if they didn't already talk before)

.

Spoiler

I could see reconciliation possibly.  Killing ones parents is a bad thing and that would explain why Celene tried to send Briela away and convince her to go live with the Dalish for the rest of her life. and with the way Gaspard is actually somewhat intelligently presented, I could see him coming back into the fold if he truly felt that that would be best for Orlais with the Templar Mage conflict breaking out.  Celene definitely seems intelligent enough to see the game being played and doing what is best for Orlais by forgiving Gaspard.  Not that I think all that would happen, but I still maintane the dalish/CEs best chance comes through cooperating with Orlais and not flat out trying to over power them.

[LobselVith8]

interesting.

Spoiler

I did read the part where Briala was remembering her parents death and thinking it was Lady Mantilon who had sent them.  And at the time I thought there was more Celene wanted to say before she told Briala to go to the Dales when Briala jumped on Lady Mantilon sending the assassins.  That would be a reason right there I guess, curious why Celene did it, considering she later refuses to make a simple marriage that would greatly strengthen her position because it would cost her Briala.

thanks for sharing.  Not going to say I particularly like this, but it makes sense to a degree, I just don't understand the reasoning of Celene.

 

No problem. To answer your question,

 

Spoiler

Celene argued that she would have been killed had she not proven her worth to Lady Mantillon. Briala brings up that even when she killed Lady Mantillon, the secret was kept by Lady Mantillon because she realized that Celene had "fooled" her, and that she didn't want to deprive the Empress of a "useful tool".

[wcholcombe]

._. Who said they had any?

 

They come in non horned and horned variants after all.

My Vashoth better dang well have horns, that half the allure of playing one right there.

[Hellion Rex]

No problem. To answer your question,

 

Spoiler

Celene argued that she would have been killed had she not proven her worth to Lady Mantilon. Briala brings up that even when she killed Lady Mantilon, the secret was kept by Lady Mantilon because she realized that Celene had "fooled" her, and that she didn't want to deprive the Empress of a "useful tool".

Let me guess:

Spoiler

Celene was supposed to kill Briala as well...

[The Elder King]

Spoiler

Because all of it was Celene's fault. It's just another example of Orlesian nobles being horrible and untrustworthy people. Really, I should have seen this coming sooner with Leliana, but... oh well. I've made peace with it so long as I can make brutal war on Orlais.

I think you're up to disappointment in this regard.

[Xilizhra]

Spoiler

I could see reconciliation possibly.  Killing ones parents is a bad thing and that would explain why Celene tried to send Briela away and convince her to go live with the Dalish for the rest of her life. and with the way Gaspard is actually somewhat intelligently presented, I could see him coming back into the fold if he truly felt that that would be best for Orlais with the Templar Mage conflict breaking out.  Celene definitely seems intelligent enough to see the game being played and doing what is best for Orlais by forgiving Gaspard.  Not that I think all that would happen, but I still maintane the dalish/CEs best chance comes through cooperating with Orlais and not flat out trying to over power them.

Spoiler

You wish to discourage that now that we might have an actual means of overpowering them? That perhaps this is the threshold for ultimate victory?

[wcholcombe]

No problem. To answer your question,

 

Spoiler

Celene argued that she would have been killed had she not proven her worth to Lady Mantilon. Briala brings up that even when she killed Lady Mantilon, the secret was kept by Lady Mantilon because she realized that Celene had "fooled" her, and that she didn't want to deprive the Empress of a "useful tool".

Spoiler

Ah that ties it together much better.  And actually does leave the door open for reconciliation between Celene and Briala.  Briala is possibly more mad about being fooled than the actual death as it was something Mantilon required or she would have killed Celene and Briala is nothing if not aware and a student of the game herself.  Not saying they will reconcile, but it is at least a possibility.

[LobselVith8]

Spoiler

Because all of it was Celene's fault. It's just another example of Orlesian nobles being horrible and untrustworthy people. Really, I should have seen this coming sooner with Leliana, but... oh well. I've made peace with it so long as I can make brutal war on Orlais.

 

Spoiler

Briala does say the reason she doesn't support Celene after the duel is because she would retract her support for the elves the moment it became inconvenient to her keeping the throne. Briala seems to want to prolong the civil war of Orlais in order to help her people.

[The Elder King]

Spoiler

You wish to discourage that now that we might have an actual means of overpowering them? That perhaps this is the threshold for ultimate victory?

Spoiler

Do you really think Bioware will give us the option to destroY Orlais? How do you think it'll work with the obvious
choice of supporting either Celene or Gaspard?
At best we'll be able to support the dalish and don't resolve the OCW ourselves, so that Orlais might be further weakened. And even this is something I woudn't bet on.

[wcholcombe]

Spoiler

You wish to discourage that now that we might have an actual means of overpowering them? That perhaps this is the threshold for ultimate victory?

Spoiler

No, I just see the more intelligent path of getting there through cooperation over bloody war.  Celene had already offered the CEs and Dalish nominal self government in the Dales.  Negotiate it a little better and it beats the heck out of a bloody war the dalish and CEs might end up losing anyway.

[LobselVith8]

Let me guess:

Spoiler

Celene was supposed to kill Briala as well...

 

Spoiler

Briala mentions it because, apparently, Lady Mantillon didn't try to have her killed when Briala killed her, and she thought it was because she felt sorry about the death of her parents, but she realized it was because she admitted her loyalty to Celene during her confrontation with Lady Mantillon.

[wcholcombe]

Spoiler

Do you really think Bioware will give us the option to destroY Orlais? How do you think it'll work with the obvious
choice of supporting either Celene or Gaspard?
At best we'll be able to support the dalish and don't resolve the OCW ourselves, so that Orlais might be further weakened. And even this is something I woudn't bet on.

Orlais isn't being removed from the table anytime soon, same with the Chantry.  Too much potential, too much impact.  Weakened maybe, but they aren't going anywhere.

[The Elder King]

Spoiler

Briala does say the reason she doesn't support Celene after the duel is because she would retract her support for the elves the moment it became inconvenient to her keeping the throne. Briala seems to want to prolong the civil war of Orlais in order to help her people.

Spoiler

My speculation might be correct then. Focus on the dalish plot (maybe related to Arlathan) and leave the OCW unresolved. I doubt Orlais will be fully destroyed though.

[The Elder King]

Orlais is being removed from the table anytime soon, same with the Chantry.  Too much potential, too much impact.  Weakened maybe, but they aren't going anywhere.

You mean 'isn't', right?

[wcholcombe]

yes- edited.

 

I actually think the OCW will end in DAI, I am more and more growing to the idea of the MvT war continuing.  I don't think permanently, I think it will be resolved in due time, or the tow warring factions will be marginalized to such a degree they have a minor impact and the Chantry rebuilds the circles with loyal templars and new mages/loyal mages.

 

I am thinking the MvT war will take on something close to random bandits/brigands you kind of encounter long term.  Think two seperate bands of Tal Vashoth from DA2 that hate each other.

[Xilizhra]

Spoiler

Do you really think Bioware will give us the option to destroY Orlais? How do you think it'll work with the obvious
choice of supporting either Celene or Gaspard?
At best we'll be able to support the dalish and don't resolve the OCW ourselves, so that Orlais might be further weakened. And even this is something I woudn't bet on.

Because I don't want another damned Orzammar plot; I want to take action to destroy one of our worst enemies.

[Master Warder Z_]

You mean 'isn't', right?

 

I'd assume so

[LobselVith8]

Spoiler

Ah that ties it together much better.  And actually does leave the door open for reconciliation between Celene and Briala.  Briala is possibly more mad about being fooled than the actual death as it was something Mantilon required or she would have killed Celene and Briala is nothing if not aware and a student of the game herself.  Not saying they will reconcile, but it is at least a possibility.

 

Spoiler

The way Celene phrased it, she "proved herself worthy" to Lady Mantillon. I think Celene is getting across that she needed an ally to stay alive because of the Game, and before the cut from the earlier chapter (the flashback when she converses with Lady Mantillon), Celene realized that the servants are the only ones who were at the house when she left.

 

As for reconciliation, I don't know. Celene did kill her parents, even if it was to stay alive because of the Game. I'm not certain that's something most would forgive, no matter the reason. I think Briala is more focused on using the Eluvian to help her people.

[Xilizhra]

yes- edited.

 

I actually think the OCW will end in DAI, I am more and more growing to the idea of the MvT war continuing.  I don't think permanently, I think it will be resolved in due time, or the tow warring factions will be marginalized to such a degree they have a minor impact and the Chantry rebuilds the circles with loyal templars and new mages/loyal mages.

 

I am thinking the MvT war will take on something close to random bandits/brigands you kind of encounter long term.  Think two seperate bands of Tal Vashoth from DA2 that hate each other.

Never. Not in ten thousand years will I accept this happening, especially without influence.