889 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

If there's an opportunity to follow up on Merrill's Eluvian project in DAI, I'm very much for that. If it can only be performed properly if Hawke friended her, even better.

 

Why would you want to relegate the Eluvians to a minor plot point at best?

[Xilizhra]

Why would you want to relegate the Eluvians to a minor plot point at best?

Keep in mind I said "follow up on Merrill's Eluvian research," not "have any plot point related to Eluvians."

[LobselVith8]

Well, that's one way of looking at it. My Dalish Warden wouldn't agree so much, for logical reasons, and neither did one of my two Hawkes (who ironically ended up rivalmancing her; that was a surprise). Even more ironically, I can see a possible future Dalish Mage Inquisitor not being a fan of Merrill's work, while my future Human Mage Inquisitor would approve, for different reasons (mainly related to the fear of spirits).

 

I wasn't suggesting that the Dalish Inquisitor couldn't see her negatively; I was simply following up on your suggestion about the protagonist being able to express a multitude of different views about her, including one that was framed her efforts to stop the decline of the Elvhen in a positive light. I, for one, would enjoy expressing something similar to your "Number Two" suggestion.

 

I'm more curious about the members from the Sabrae clan that decided to stay in Ferelden because of the Dalish boon (from a Dalish Warden or because they helped Ferelden during the Blight). Mary Kirby said once that Ashalle, for example, was with them. Although according to Alistair in DA2, that didn't work too well either.

 

The Dalish Boon Epilogue slides showing for non-Dalish Wardens is an oversight; the flag about the Dalish getting the Hinterlands is only activated when the Hero of Ferelden from the Sabrae Clan commits the Ultimate Sacrifice or specifically asks for the People to be given a land of their own. That's also why Merrill can only ask King Alistair about it when either of those specific actions took place with the Dalish Hero of Ferelden.

[TK514]

The Dalish Boon Epilogue slides showing for non-Dalish Wardens is an oversight; the flag about the Dalish getting the Hinterlands is only activated when the Hero of Ferelden from the Sabrae Clan commits the Ultimate Sacrifice or specifically asks for the People to be given a land of their own. That's also why Merrill can only ask King Alistair about it when either of those specific actions took place with the Dalish Hero of Ferelden.

I'm somewhat curious as to what happened to them as well. We know that, regardless, the Dalish Boon doesn't work out, but no real details as to how/why.

I'd be interested to know the details.

[Mistic]

I wasn't suggesting that the Dalish Inquisitor couldn't see her negatively; I was simply following up on your suggestion about the protagonist being able to express a multitude of different views about her, including one that was framed her efforts to stop the decline of the Elvhen in a positive light.

 

Fair enough. I like Bioware games because of that (limited) freedom. After so many discussions, I've had to replay several scenes in DA:O and I'm amazed at the subtle differences in tone in many answers, even if all of them were to say "yes".

 

I, for one, would enjoy expressing something similar to your "Number Two" suggestion.

 

Not number four?

 

I'm somewhat curious as to what happened to them as well. We know that, regardless, the Dalish Boon doesn't work out, but no real details as to how/why.

I'd be interested to know the details.

 

Yeah, I'm curious too. Well, I assumed that Bioware didn't want to confuse things more. In every epilogue there were problems and tensions. It's just Lanaya soothed them while Zathrian raised them. If we assume that the interview with Alistair is happening at a "Oh, Maker, this is going to end badly" moment, it would make sense. Then, in each person's headcanon, it could end with "and then Lanaya solved things" or with "and then it was war".

 

But this is only a guess. Probably Bioware has an idea for that (sadly, I'm almost sure it will be "cut off the branches").

[LobselVith8]

Not number four?

 

My cousin would be more familiar with number four.

 

Yeah, I'm curious too. Well, I assumed that Bioware didn't want to confuse things more. In every epilogue there were problems and tensions. It's just Lanaya soothed them while Zathrian raised them. If we assume that the interview with Alistair is happening at a "Oh, Maker, this is going to end badly" moment, it would make sense. Then, in each person's headcanon, it could end with "and then Lanaya solved things" or with "and then it was war".

 

But this is only a guess. Probably Bioware has an idea for that (sadly, I'm almost sure it will be "cut off the branches").

 

That would make sense. I'd sincerely hope that the Dalish Boon wasn't simply discarded for those players who put the time and effort into playing the game with their Dalish Warden, and then choosing that option as the royal boon out of all the other choices.

[wcholcombe]

My cousin would be more familiar with number four.

 

 

That would make sense. I'd sincerely hope that the Dalish Boon wasn't simply discarded for those players who put the time and effort into playing the game with their Dalish Warden, and then choosing that option as the royal boon out of all the other choices.

It isn't like any of the boon options appear to really carry over any true impacts sadly.  The mages aren't freed, the Howe's estates are give to the grey wardens irregardless, I guess the statue gets built, we don't know about the city elf alienage bann, and I guess the helping the dwarves might have happened, but it isn't like that is world changing I guess.

[LobselVith8]

It isn't like any of the boon options appear to really carry over any true impacts sadly.  The mages aren't freed, the Howe's estates are give to the grey wardens irregardless, I guess the statue gets built, we don't know about the city elf alienage bann, and I guess the helping the dwarves might have happened, but it isn't like that is world changing I guess.

 

I'd like to think that a mage being a national hero who ended the Blight and saved the City of Amaranthine from darkspawn as a political and military leader, and asking for the emancipation of his people with the full support of the Crown, wouldn't be dismissed. Regardless of the tonal shift of the Circles from Origins to the stories that followed, I'd like that decision to matter in Inquisition, since Ferelden is one of the settings for the Inquisitor's story.

 

Otherwise, the choice simply didn't matter.

[wcholcombe]

I'd like to think that a mage being a national hero who ended the Blight and saved the City of Amaranthine from darkspawn as a political and military leader, and asking for the emancipation of his people with the full support of the Crown, wouldn't be dismissed. Regardless of the tonal shift of the Circles from Origins to the stories that followed, I'd like that decision to matter in Inquisition, since Ferelden is one of the settings for the Inquisitor's story.

 

Otherwise, the choice simply didn't matter.

I am not disputing any of that Lob. I agree actually.  I was just pointing out to our knowledge it doesn't really look like at this point the boons really did anything.  We know the free circle one didn't happen and the gifting of amaranthine to the warders happens whether you ask for it or not.  Personally I wish Awakenings had happened at Soldiers peak, but I guess there were reasons it couldn't.

[KC_Prototype]

I hope we'll have the option to either give the Dales back to the Elves so they can have their own country or keep it in human possession. My human mage will definitely keep it in human hands just to rip out the hearts of the elves!

[In Exile]

The political dynamic of an CE majority state would be interesting to see.  

[Dean_the_Young]

I'd like to think that a mage being a national hero who ended the Blight and saved the City of Amaranthine from darkspawn as a political and military leader, and asking for the emancipation of his people with the full support of the Crown, wouldn't be dismissed. Regardless of the tonal shift of the Circles from Origins to the stories that followed, I'd like that decision to matter in Inquisition, since Ferelden is one of the settings for the Inquisitor's story.

 

Otherwise, the choice simply didn't matter.

 

Now that's a false dilemma- just because a choice doesn't affect things in the way you wanted them to doesn't mean choices don't matter.

[Mistic]

Now that's a false dilemma- just because a choice doesn't affect things in the way you wanted them to doesn't mean choices don't matter.

 

Agreed. However, I have this feeling that no matter what you wanted them to be, the choices about the boons won't matter in one way or another.

 

For example:

Mage boon: "The rebel Templars marched against the Tower and killed those who didn't flee". Doesn't matter if the Circle was free or not.

Dalish boon: "In the end, there were too many problems. The Dalish settlement is no more". Doesn't matter if Lanaya was helping or not.

Dwarf boon: "Orzammar's frontiers have been redrawn by the darkspawn". Doesn't matter if Orzammar expanded initially thanks to human help or not.

 

So it's a fear of Status Quo Is God. Kinda expected, actually, since Bioware can only go so far at having branching storylines. I'm satisfied as long as there is a mention, in a conversation or, even better, a codex entry. Heck, having different codex entries depending on your playthrough would awake the compeltionist spirit in me!

[LobselVith8]

Now that's a false dilemma- just because a choice doesn't affect things in the way you wanted them to doesn't mean choices don't matter.

If it's ignored, then I don't see it as a false dilemma.

[Dean_the_Young]

If it's ignored, then I don't see it as a false dilemma.

 

The false delimma is that it must be addressed as you wish it or that it doesn't matter. A choice can be acknowledged without having the affects you desire, and a choice can have meaning even if it never comes again.

 

Your stance on this has tied acknowledging the choice with a certain result, and equating ignorring the choice with it not mattering. Neither of these ties are inherent- RPG choices frequently have value on their own grounds rather than their effects on the world. The value of having a choice to ask for a mage boon isn't to have a different plot: the value of having the choice to ask for a mage boon is to have the chance to role play a character who desires a mage boon, even if actually getting it is beyond the power of the ones they're asking.

 

Not getting the mage boon is not ignoring asking for it. Ferelden not shifting policy in response to failing to provide a mage boon is not ignoring asking for it. Not getting the mage boon is not ignoring asking for it... nor does it make asking for it meaningless.

 

That is the false dilemma.

[LobselVith8]

The false delimma is that it must be addressed as you wish it or that it doesn't matter. A choice can be acknowledged without having the affects you desire, and a choice can have meaning even if it never comes again.

 

My stance is that it should be addressed; that's the entire crux of my stance. That's literally it. So far, you haven't actually bothered to address my stance, but instead, you've veered off into attacking me for expressing a desire to see it acknowledged, instead of ignored.

 

Your stance on this has tied acknowledging the choice with a certain result, and equating ignorring the choice with it not mattering. Neither of these ties are inherent- RPG choices frequently have value on their own grounds rather than their effects on the world. The value of having a choice to ask for a mage boon isn't to have a different plot: the value of having the choice to ask for a mage boon is to have the chance to role play a character who desires a mage boon, even if actually getting it is beyond the power of the ones they're asking.

 

If you're addressing my Magi Boon thread, I was pointing out that Awakening and Witch Hunt ignored it; that's what happened. It was an issue of addressing that it was ignored, since it wasn't mentioned, and it confused people who actually chose the royal boon for their respective Hero of Ferelden. Let me assure you, I'm not the only one who noticed it.

 

As for addressing the possibility of the Magi Boon being addressed in the wake of the Mage-Templar War, I don't see why you take such an issue with my opinion. I think it would make sense to address it in Inquisition now that the Circles have emancipated themselves from the Chantry - given how Inquisition is set for a period of time in Ferelden.

 

Not getting the mage boon is not ignoring asking for it. Ferelden not shifting policy in response to failing to provide a mage boon is not ignoring asking for it. Not getting the mage boon is not ignoring asking for it... nor does it make asking for it meaningless.

 

That is the false dilemma.

 

Having it addressed is what I'd prefer; it's why I stated I wanted to see it acknowledged, instead of ignored. You're intentionally misleading in your posts when you know full well I've asked for it to be acknowledged, not fulfilled. Perhaps you should be a little more sincere in your retorts to me, instead of accusing me of something that I clearly haven't said.

[Dean_the_Young]

My stance is that it should be addressed; that's the entire crux of my stance. That's literally it. So far, you haven't actually bothered to address my stance, but instead, you've veered off into attacking me for expressing a desire to see it acknowledged, instead of ignored.

 

Incorrect. I have not attacked you. I have disputed an argument that defined addressing with certain sort of portrayal.

 

 

 

 

If you're addressing my Magi Boon thread, I was pointing out that Awakening and Witch Hunt ignored it; that's what happened. It was an issue of addressing that it was ignored, since it wasn't mentioned, and it confused people who actually chose the royal boon for their respective Hero of Ferelden. Let me assure you, I'm not the only one who noticed it.

 

As for addressing the possibility of the Magi Boon being addressed in the wake of the Mage-Templar War, I don't see why you take such an issue with my opinion. I think it would make sense to address it in Inquisition now that the Circles have emancipated themselves from the Chantry - given how Inquisition is set for a period of time in Ferelden.

 

I don't take an issue with your opinion. I simply think it will be addressed in a fashion far smaller than you feel it should.

 

Having it addressed is what I'd prefer; it's why I stated I wanted to see it acknowledged, instead of ignored. You're intentionally misleading in your posts when you know full well I've asked for it to be acknowledged, not fulfilled. Perhaps you should be a little more sincere in your retorts to me, instead of accusing me of something that I clearly haven't said.

 

I am not misleading in your desire for it to be acknowledged. I am confronting what you consider 'acknowledgement' to be.

[LobselVith8]

Incorrect. I have not attacked you. I have disputed an argument that defined addressing with certain sort of portrayal.

 

Acknowledging the Magi Boon was the entire point. I gave no input as to how that should be framed.

 

I don't take an issue with your opinion. I simply think it will be addressed in a fashion far smaller than you feel it should.

I am not misleading in your desire for it to be acknowledged. I am confronting what you consider 'acknowledgement' to be.

 

I don't think you actually know how I want it addressed, since I only stated that I wanted it acknowledged. As I said earlier, I don't think any of the royal boons chosen should be dismissed.

[Dean_the_Young]

Acknowledging the Magi Boon was the entire point. I gave no input as to how that should be framed.

 

 

You have consistently done so in other topics. Has your position changed from wanting the Ferelden monarchy to support the Mages on the basis of having a mage be an international hero and national figure of exceptional importance, etc. etc. etc. repitition of your usual phrasing?

 

 

I don't think you actually know how I want it addressed, since I only stated that I wanted it acknowledged. As I said earlier, I don't think any of the royal boons chosen should be dismissed.

 

 

 

What you consider dismissed by past posts and what I consider dismissed are different things.

[LobselVith8]

You have consistently done so in other topics. Has your position changed from wanting the Ferelden monarchy to support the Mages on the basis of having a mage be an international hero and national figure of exceptional importance, etc. etc. etc. repitition of your usual phrasing?

You might want to stick to this thread, and not make an attempt to excuse your obvious mistake by bringing up other threads where you "think" I said something specifically.

As for this thread - that was me pointing out why it should be addressed, and not ignored. I think the Inquisitor will likely play a role in deciding how mages or templars are treated, given the player's agency to side with one or the other.

What you consider dismissed by past posts and what I consider dismissed are different things.

I said that I thought it should be acknowledged. I also feel all the royal boons should be addressed. I haven't said otherwise.

[Dean_the_Young]

You might want to stick to this thread, and not make an attempt to excuse your obvious mistake by bringing up other threads where you "think" I said something specifically.

 

There's not much 'think' about it: you have a repetitive history of what you feel the Ferelden monarchy's stance on the mages should be, with regular appeals to it being based on the potential mage boon.

 

 

 

I said that I thought it should be acknowledged. I also feel all the royal boons should be addressed. I haven't said otherwise.

 

And I have never said you have.

 

Magic.

[LobselVith8]

There's not much 'think' about it: you have a repetitive history of what you feel the Ferelden monarchy's stance on the mages should be, with regular appeals to it being based on the potential mage boon.

I've said that I think it should be acknowledged, and I've speculated about possible ramifications in the past, but that's entirely different than what you're insinuating. Having it addressed doesn't necessarily mean there would be support from the Crown for mage autonomy; it simply means that the narrative would address it, instead of ignore it as though it never happened.

And I have never said you have.
 
Magic.

So perhaps we should return to the topic of discussion, then.

[Dean_the_Young]

Perhaps you should.

[Mistic]

Surprised no one has already mentioned the new informaiton about Solas (aka 'Bald Elf Mage') in this thread, although I admit that he doesn't look very Dalish.

[dragonflight288]

Hmm, I wonder how both sides in the Dales would react to a dwarven or a qunari Inquisitor butting in and saying 'since you guys can't get your act together, I'll get it together for you. Now sit down children and I'll decide who gets what land."